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Contradiction: Whats wrong with it?

GodSands
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11/4/2010 6:37:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why is it wrong to contradict? I am not asking why is it wrong in the sense that it contradicts, rather I guess I am asking why are there such things as contradictions? And in certain worldviews, that to contradict someone or something yet be consistent is a wrong thing, because there is no reason not to contradict.

It is wrong to contradict because there is a universal 'element' that cannot be inconsistent with it's self. So please tell me according to what you believe to be true, why it is wrong and incorrect to contradict. To say that it goes against the laws of logic or against our thinking is clearly not an answer. If that was said in a philosophy paper, it would get no marks unless it is rounded off with a full answer.

The reason why contraction is wrong and incorrect is because God who crated the laws of logic cannot be incosistent with Himself.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/4/2010 7:19:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 6:37:20 AM, GodSands wrote:
The reason why contraction is wrong and incorrect is because God who crated the laws of logic cannot be incosistent with Himself.

So, if that's the case why is the bible very inconsistent with the laws of nature?

Principle of explosion, if one thing can be true and not true than one can logically derive any conclusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
GodSands
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11/5/2010 5:40:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 11/4/2010 7:19:25 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/4/2010 6:37:20 AM, GodSands wrote:
The reason why contraction is wrong and incorrect is because God who crated the laws of logic cannot be incosistent with Himself.

So, if that's the case why is the bible very inconsistent with the laws of nature?

Principle of explosion, if one thing can be true and not true than one can logically derive any conclusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org...


The Bible is? I haven't noticed that it is. Mind explaining?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/5/2010 6:41:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Things that contradict are illogical, but not necessarily wrong.

God is illogical, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

Logic has nothing to do with Faith.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
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11/5/2010 6:44:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 6:41:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Things that contradict are illogical, but not necessarily wrong.

God is illogical, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

Logic has nothing to do with Faith.

contradictions can exist now? o.O

(obviously they exist semantically, but you know what i mean)
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 6:47:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Scientists think differently. Existence is determined by the ability to interact with it using natural means. The Religious have decided that they interact with God via supernatural means. There's no room for logic there. So yes, to the religious, God exists even as a contradiction.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
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11/5/2010 6:51:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 6:47:23 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Scientists think differently. Existence is determined by the ability to interact with it using natural means. The Religious have decided that they interact with God via supernatural means. There's no room for logic there. So yes, to the religious, God exists even as a contradiction.

just because someone claims something is possible that doesn't make it possible. you're too smart to be a relativist...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
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11/5/2010 7:00:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 6:51:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 6:47:23 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Scientists think differently. Existence is determined by the ability to interact with it using natural means. The Religious have decided that they interact with God via supernatural means. There's no room for logic there. So yes, to the religious, God exists even as a contradiction.

just because someone claims something is possible that doesn't make it possible. you're too smart to be a relativist...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
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11/5/2010 7:02:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm sure the others will do a good job of explaining why contradictions are illogical, which I obviously agree with. However, the two cents I have to put into this conversation, which most likely differs from everyone else, is that the universe doesn't necessary have to be bound by logic, it created logic, that is to say our mental faculty for it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:02:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 6:51:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 6:47:23 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Scientists think differently. Existence is determined by the ability to interact with it using natural means. The Religious have decided that they interact with God via supernatural means. There's no room for logic there. So yes, to the religious, God exists even as a contradiction.

just because someone claims something is possible that doesn't make it possible. you're too smart to be a relativist...

So are you. You'll find that the more intelligent you are, the harder it is to understand religion. It took a tremendous amount of effort for me to begin to understand why theists think the way they do. Trust me on this. It sounds absurd, but there is a method to the madness.

I've always thought scientifically. I've always been about logic and truth and the proper method of deriving information. None of that is applicable when it comes to religion.

The problem is that you're approaching religious dogma using logic. Stop that. It won't work. Religion is illogical, completely and irrefutably illogical. However illogical it may be, we can't refute theists because they don't operate using natural methods of validating their faith. It's like using a standard deck of playing cards to play checkers.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/5/2010 7:05:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:02:36 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So are you. You'll find that the more intelligent you are, the harder it is to understand religion. It took a tremendous amount of effort for me to begin to understand why theists think the way they do. Trust me on this. It sounds absurd, but there is a method to the madness.

I've always thought scientifically. I've always been about logic and truth and the proper method of deriving information. None of that is applicable when it comes to religion.

The problem is that you're approaching religious dogma using logic. Stop that. It won't work. Religion is illogical, completely and irrefutably illogical. However illogical it may be, we can't refute theists because they don't operate using natural methods of validating their faith. It's like using a standard deck of playing cards to play checkers.

I'm pretty sure that belle (as well as myself) have already looked at religion through the eyes of a Theist, and did understand it, still understand it, and now understand why it's wrong.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
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11/5/2010 7:07:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:02:36 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So are you. You'll find that the more intelligent you are, the harder it is to understand religion. It took a tremendous amount of effort for me to begin to understand why theists think the way they do. Trust me on this. It sounds absurd, but there is a method to the madness.

I've always thought scientifically. I've always been about logic and truth and the proper method of deriving information. None of that is applicable when it comes to religion.

The problem is that you're approaching religious dogma using logic. Stop that. It won't work. Religion is illogical, completely and irrefutably illogical. However illogical it may be, we can't refute theists because they don't operate using natural methods of validating their faith. It's like using a standard deck of playing cards to play checkers.

I think that's a pretty disrespectful thing to say toward guys like popculturepooka and InquireTruth.
Mirza
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11/5/2010 7:10:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
A contradiction is wrong because it gives no basis for truth. If you have to believe in A or B at the same time while they are actually contradictory, then that eradicates the basis for truth. That is why contradictions are wrong.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:12:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:05:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that belle (as well as myself) have already looked at religion through the eyes of a Theist, and did understand it, still understand it, and now understand why it's wrong.

What you've basically said is that you've dipped your toe into the water and escaped drowning.

I posit that once you look at Religion through the eyes of a theist, you become a theist. If you didn't make the switch, you didn't look hard enough.

Why do you think that Christians keep telling you to open yourself up to God? All humans have a capacity, a psychological capacity to force defense mechanisms upon themselves. Religion is no different. The amount of fervor and support a theist has is akin to a strong psychological disorder. This isn't easy to develop, nor is it easy to overcome.

Don't overestimate yourself. You have a tendency to do that, Geo. Don't place your intellectual capacity on a pedestal, don't worship your own intelligence. It's disastrous.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:13:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:07:34 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
I think that's a pretty disrespectful thing to say toward guys like popculturepooka and InquireTruth.

If PCP or IT believe that they can validate their religious beliefs through logic and reasoning, then they deserve that disrespect. One does not know God through head-scratching and philosophical discourse. One knows God through faith and faith alone.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/5/2010 7:15:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:13:27 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:07:34 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
I think that's a pretty disrespectful thing to say toward guys like popculturepooka and InquireTruth.

If PCP or IT believe that they can validate their religious beliefs through logic and reasoning, then they deserve that disrespect. One does not know God through head-scratching and philosophical discourse. One knows God through faith and faith alone.
I would rather believe in God through the most blind eyes and deaf ears than have a tiny piece of your arrogance.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:18:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:10:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
A contradiction is wrong because it gives no basis for truth. If you have to believe in A or B at the same time while they are actually contradictory, then that eradicates the basis for truth. That is why contradictions are wrong.

No, this is inapplicable. The basis for truth with logic and science is empirical evidence and a link to the physical world, using natural means. These natural means need to interact with things in a way that makes sense.

Example: We touch a chair, we know it exists, because things we touch are things we can interact with. We assume we are real, so things we interact with are real.

There is this vague type of "knowledge" that theists have. Theists *know* God just as strongly as I know this chair I am sitting on exists. The problem is that they don't know this empirically, they know it by some other means. I can only label it as "faith". I don't have the audacity to say that their knowledge is false.

Theists aren't even OFFENDED when we state that God doesn't exist. They're CONFUSED. If you tried to prove to me that the chair I am sitting in didn't exist, it would evoke a similar feeling if you tried to prove to a theist that God doesn't exist.

However logical the arguments are, I'd still think you nonsensical.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:20:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:15:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
I would rather believe in God through the most blind eyes and deaf ears than have a tiny piece of your arrogance.

Point out the arrogance. I meant nothing that would offend. If I did, I need to apologize, but I won't apologize for anything I believe to be irrefutably true.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Mirza
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11/5/2010 7:20:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:18:10 PM, Kleptin wrote:
No, this is inapplicable. The basis for truth with logic and science is empirical evidence and a link to the physical world, using natural means. These natural means need to interact with things in a way that makes sense.

Example: We touch a chair, we know it exists, because things we touch are things we can interact with. We assume we are real, so things we interact with are real.

There is this vague type of "knowledge" that theists have. Theists *know* God just as strongly as I know this chair I am sitting on exists. The problem is that they don't know this empirically, they know it by some other means. I can only label it as "faith". I don't have the audacity to say that their knowledge is false.
What you consider Faith is not what I consider it to be. I consider it to be belief in God, belief in the Unseen. You might consider it to be belief in no evidence, but that part belongs to you if you ask me.

Theists aren't even OFFENDED when we state that God doesn't exist. They're CONFUSED. If you tried to prove to me that the chair I am sitting in didn't exist, it would evoke a similar feeling if you tried to prove to a theist that God doesn't exist.
No, when you state that God exists, I think you are confused and very unfortunate.

However logical the arguments are, I'd still think you nonsensical.
Then think however you want.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/5/2010 7:22:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:12:00 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:05:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that belle (as well as myself) have already looked at religion through the eyes of a Theist, and did understand it, still understand it, and now understand why it's wrong.

What you've basically said is that you've dipped your toe into the water and escaped drowning.

I posit that once you look at Religion through the eyes of a theist, you become a theist. If you didn't make the switch, you didn't look hard enough.

Why do you think that Christians keep telling you to open yourself up to God? All humans have a capacity, a psychological capacity to force defense mechanisms upon themselves. Religion is no different. The amount of fervor and support a theist has is akin to a strong psychological disorder. This isn't easy to develop, nor is it easy to overcome.

Don't overestimate yourself. You have a tendency to do that, Geo. Don't place your intellectual capacity on a pedestal, don't worship your own intelligence. It's disastrous.

o.O

religious belief isn't categorically different from any other belief the way you seem to be implying. its not like once you believe in god you can never go back. its just that those who do so tend to have a highly invested in their religion and its truth. this leads them to accept things they otherwise wouldn't. does that make them insane? naw... it makes them human. people believe things simply because they want them to be true all the time. of course, the ease with which they will give up such beliefs differ between individuals... but mostly people just ignore the disconcerting bits of their worldview as much as possible, whether they believe in god or not. we can (and do) maintain common standards for truth.most arguments tend to be about how to apply them. (at least until someone is backed into a corner and bites a bullet for their ideology :P)

sounds like you've had too many arguments with really obnoxious theists lol
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/5/2010 7:24:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:20:14 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:15:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
I would rather believe in God through the most blind eyes and deaf ears than have a tiny piece of your arrogance.

Point out the arrogance. I meant nothing that would offend. If I did, I need to apologize, but I won't apologize for anything I believe to be irrefutably true.
Almost every post in this thread which you wrote is equivalent to arrogance. See, a theist like me argues for his religion a lot, but usually refrains from talking about Faith itself. The reason why is partially due to people like you. You will not believe, and my time will be wasted. I have no need of trying to argue against arrogance. When people kindly ask me about my Faith, I can answer, but when they say that "Faith is stupidity" and other such nonsense, then I know that any argument I present will be directed at arrogance, not a humble person who actually does want to know why I believe in what I do. Saying that you do not believe in God does not offend me. I know very well that you do not. But telling me that the more intelligent, smart, rational, etc. person you are, the less you believe in God, this is such a high level of arrogance and idiocy. Whoever says this should be ashamed. I am not even going to argue what 2 + 2 is equivalent to if I have to direct my arguments at arrogance.
popculturepooka
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11/5/2010 7:25:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:13:27 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:07:34 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
I think that's a pretty disrespectful thing to say toward guys like popculturepooka and InquireTruth.

If PCP or IT believe that they can validate their religious beliefs through logic and reasoning, then they deserve that disrespect. One does not know God through head-scratching and philosophical discourse. One knows God through faith and faith alone.

You have no idea what you are talking about and I'd appreciate it if you would stop speaking wholesale for "the religious". Not all of us are fideists and that certainly isn't the only way to understand faith nor is it even the correct way to understand faith.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Mirza
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11/5/2010 7:25:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:20:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:18:10 PM, Kleptin wrote:
No, this is inapplicable. The basis for truth with logic and science is empirical evidence and a link to the physical world, using natural means. These natural means need to interact with things in a way that makes sense.

Example: We touch a chair, we know it exists, because things we touch are things we can interact with. We assume we are real, so things we interact with are real.

There is this vague type of "knowledge" that theists have. Theists *know* God just as strongly as I know this chair I am sitting on exists. The problem is that they don't know this empirically, they know it by some other means. I can only label it as "faith". I don't have the audacity to say that their knowledge is false.
What you consider Faith is not what I consider it to be. I consider it to be belief in God, belief in the Unseen. You might consider it to be belief in no evidence, but that part belongs to you if you ask me.

Theists aren't even OFFENDED when we state that God doesn't exist. They're CONFUSED. If you tried to prove to me that the chair I am sitting in didn't exist, it would evoke a similar feeling if you tried to prove to a theist that God doesn't exist.
No, when you state that God exists, I think you are confused and very unfortunate.

However logical the arguments are, I'd still think you nonsensical.
Then think however you want.
I meant when you state that God doesn't exist.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:26:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:20:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
What you consider Faith is not what I consider it to be. I consider it to be belief in God, belief in the Unseen. You might consider it to be belief in no evidence, but that part belongs to you if you ask me.

Faith is knowledge that requires no evidence, not a belief without evidence. There's a big difference.

No, when you state that God exists, I think you are confused and very unfortunate.

Oh, and *I'm* the arrogant one? I'm not even a theist and this statement oozes so much condescension that I can smell it from across the internet.

Then think however you want.

Your little hissy fit is just due to the fact that you believe in only one validation for the way a person thinks and lives their lives. Let me guess, you're not only obnoxious and arrogant, you're also a racist and a bigot, aren't you?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:27:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:25:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
I meant when you state that God doesn't exist.

Okay, now I'm confused. Are you an atheist o.O?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
m93samman
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11/5/2010 7:27:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:02:36 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So are you. You'll find that the more intelligent you are, the harder it is to understand religion...
I've always thought scientifically. I've always been about logic and truth and the proper method of deriving information. None of that is applicable when it comes to religion.


Let's discuss the bold, if you don't mind. You can begin by explaining how science isn't applicable to religion, and how some of the most intellectual scholars who ever existed were religious. e.g. Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who converted to Islam BECAUSE of science, and ONLY science.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:30:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:25:38 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
You have no idea what you are talking about and I'd appreciate it if you would stop speaking wholesale for "the religious". Not all of us are fideists and that certainly isn't the only way to understand faith nor is it even the correct way to understand faith.

I *can't* understand faith. All I can do is vaguely blunder out the shape of it using my own logical processes. Sure, I'll accept your disagreement. Why don't you go ahead and educate me? I'm pretty set in what I think, but not completely.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Mirza
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11/5/2010 7:30:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:26:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Faith is knowledge that requires no evidence, not a belief without evidence. There's a big difference.
My dictionary is not your dictionary. The word I use for Faith originally means "belief."

Oh, and *I'm* the arrogant one? I'm not even a theist and this statement oozes so much condescension that I can smell it from across the internet.
Read; You brought it up, and you should not expect anything but a reflection. Yes, I believe you are less fortunate as an atheist. I believe this atheism is part of why you are arguing through arrogance, which is exactly why I do not mind telling you that you are less fortunate as an atheist. Atheists deserve much more than this, and this is not even insulting. I am merely telling you the truth; anybody who I see believing in what he should not believe in and doing what he should not do, I see him as a less fortunate person. And no, this is not arrogance. I do not think that I am better than such a person; God forbid. I believe I am on the right path.

Your little hissy fit is just due to the fact that you believe in only one validation for the way a person thinks and lives their lives. Let me guess, you're not only obnoxious and arrogant, you're also a racist and a bigot, aren't you?
No, and the risk is extremely low, thank God.
Mirza
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11/5/2010 7:31:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:27:26 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/5/2010 7:25:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
I meant when you state that God doesn't exist.

Okay, now I'm confused. Are you an atheist o.O?
No, it was a typo. I argue negatively for "believing" in God (because it was a typo) and corrected it to arguing negatively about "not believing" in God.
Kleptin
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11/5/2010 7:32:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 7:24:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
But telling me that the more intelligent, smart, rational, etc. person you are, the less you believe in God, this is such a high level of arrogance and idiocy. Whoever says this should be ashamed. I am not even going to argue what 2 + 2 is equivalent to if I have to direct my arguments at arrogance.

Okay, then this is my mistake. Let me rephrase.

I did not mean that people with "more intelligence" have a difficult time understanding religion. Let us substitute that with people "more set in the ways of empirical thinking".

How does this change the discussion?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.