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Missed too many classes?

Net56
Posts: 6
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11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair? Shouldn't the student's grade be determined by the actual work he has done instead of the amount of classes he missed? The student is there to learn, and for the grade. If that particular class session has to do with neither, is there any real reason he should be there? I can see docking the grade on certain days where something was due. Such as turning a paper in or taking a test. But what about the other days where it's just lecture or note-taking?

Theoretically, a student could be doing great in the class but, because he missed a certain amount of days, he makes a lower grade than he deserves. If he still aces the class, the classes he missed apparently didn't matter. Alternatively, a student doing badly and missing classes could possibly be dong badly BECAUSE he missed those classes. Why dock his grade further on the sole reason of missing the classes?

Personally, it seems like the only reason the grade is lowered is because the teacher was personally offended that you weren't there. The student may technically have not needed to be there, but the teacher may be worried about facing empty classrooms. Is this a valid reason, though?

This disturbs me, honestly. What do you people think about this?
Being Alive, IS Awesome.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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11/11/2010 7:41:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM, Net56 wrote:
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair? Shouldn't the student's grade be determined by the actual work he has done instead of the amount of classes he missed? The student is there to learn, and for the grade. If that particular class session has to do with neither, is there any real reason he should be there? I can see docking the grade on certain days where something was due. Such as turning a paper in or taking a test. But what about the other days where it's just lecture or note-taking?

Theoretically, a student could be doing great in the class but, because he missed a certain amount of days, he makes a lower grade than he deserves. If he still aces the class, the classes he missed apparently didn't matter. Alternatively, a student doing badly and missing classes could possibly be dong badly BECAUSE he missed those classes. Why dock his grade further on the sole reason of missing the classes?

Personally, it seems like the only reason the grade is lowered is because the teacher was personally offended that you weren't there. The student may technically have not needed to be there, but the teacher may be worried about facing empty classrooms. Is this a valid reason, though?

This disturbs me, honestly. What do you people think about this?

There are reasons a prof might make attendence mandatory. If lecture notes are posted online, for one. Two, if class participation is necessary. Etc
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/11/2010 8:00:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think it should be based on your understanding of the material.

this is often shown through participation...

but I wouldn't say particularly vigilant attendance would be necessary.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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11/11/2010 8:02:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 8:00:16 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I think it should be based on your understanding of the material.

In HS I had an english class where I did like 1/4 the HW assignments.. and missed a few papers..

but I ALWAYS participated... and was Clearly the most Tuned in and also put forth good interpretations/comments and the like :)

at the end of the year she told me I had like a 45 average b/c of all the missed work :/

and I got an A :))) WAHAHAHA!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Net56
Posts: 6
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11/11/2010 8:10:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 7:41:12 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM, Net56 wrote:
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair? Shouldn't the student's grade be determined by the actual work he has done instead of the amount of classes he missed? The student is there to learn, and for the grade. If that particular class session has to do with neither, is there any real reason he should be there? I can see docking the grade on certain days where something was due. Such as turning a paper in or taking a test. But what about the other days where it's just lecture or note-taking?

Theoretically, a student could be doing great in the class but, because he missed a certain amount of days, he makes a lower grade than he deserves. If he still aces the class, the classes he missed apparently didn't matter. Alternatively, a student doing badly and missing classes could possibly be dong badly BECAUSE he missed those classes. Why dock his grade further on the sole reason of missing the classes?

Personally, it seems like the only reason the grade is lowered is because the teacher was personally offended that you weren't there. The student may technically have not needed to be there, but the teacher may be worried about facing empty classrooms. Is this a valid reason, though?

This disturbs me, honestly. What do you people think about this?

There are reasons a prof might make attendence mandatory. If lecture notes are posted online, for one. Two, if class participation is necessary. Etc

If the lecture notes are posted online, that seems like attendance would be less mandatory. And if class participation is necessary, then JUST missing the class wouldn't make a difference because missing the class would screw you over anyway.

And if you do badly but still make a good grade because you were THERE (which actually IS the case with another of my classes), that makes even less sense. You could've learned absolutely nothing, but you passed the class because you sat in a chair enough times.
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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/11/2010 8:11:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I never understood it. In highschool if you miss 5 days (a semester) you automatically fail the class. That never made sense to me.

[[Once you miss the 5 days, why even bother coming to class? Because if you don't truancy officers get involved!

They piss me off (I had a friend that was 17 and in 10th grade. She got suspended for testing positive for pot, her parents didn't give a sh!t. She went out to get something to eat and the truancy officers fined her for not being in school, during school hours. Min age to drop out is 16, so I don't get how they had a case.....at all.]]
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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11/11/2010 8:28:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
it wouldnt make sense for attendence to be overly significant. Maximum should be 5 per cent of your final grade. Maybe another 5 for participation. (i cant press enter to make a new paragraph). Lecture notes would be posted online so that students can pay more attention to the prof and make additional notes when necessary. But most students take this helpful learning strategy and use it as an excuse to not show up. If you dont go to class you are getting your degree cheaply.
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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11/11/2010 10:35:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Absolutely fair. If you aren't going to the classes, you're unlikely to do well anyway. Perhaps you also have other problems going on. What would cause one to miss too many classes afterall?
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/11/2010 10:44:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Back in the olden days when i was in college (80's and 90's), *wow do i feel old* the idea was that we were now adults and it was our responsibility to grasp the material covered. Never was attendance taken, but if i missed classes I'd be in trouble. My toughest classes were in Soviet Foreign Policy and if you missed one class you missed a lot. Even in the classes, if you weren't paying close attention you could miss a lot - i used to tape them.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/11/2010 10:46:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 8:00:50 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Maybe to provide an incentive to come to class?

The price of tuition should be incentive enough...
President of DDO
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/11/2010 10:49:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 10:46:53 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 11/11/2010 8:00:50 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Maybe to provide an incentive to come to class?

The price of tuition should be incentive enough...

I'd assume so.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/11/2010 10:52:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Response to the OP: One of my favorite parts from Good Will Hunting is when Will points out "You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for a buck fifty in late charges at the public library." So true. Admittedly attending class has generally helped me do much better (in terms of processing information, taking notes and retaining stuff) but to make attendance mandatory is asinine when you're the one paying for the time you can either choose to spend or or not spend in class. However I suppose the teacher has the "right" to make classroom attendance a compulsory part of your grade if they feel attending the discussion is an integral and necessary part of ensuring your education on a particular subject, just like test taking. It's annoying and can be frustrating, but that's just one of many aspects that is with our education system... so yeah.
President of DDO
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/11/2010 11:08:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Most of my classes don't have mandatory attendance, but there is something you will miss in the event that you don't come to class.

For instance, in my Psych 101 class you miss a quiz because we have one every week. In my English 109 you miss an in-class essay, in my computer class you miss whatever in-class lab we do every week, ect. I may not think that making attendance part of the grade is correct, but I understand the reasoning.

This also reminds me that my high school's attendance policy: as long as you pass the class (65% and up) and get at least 70% on the final you don't actually have to ever come to school.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Net56
Posts: 6
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11/11/2010 11:18:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 10:35:54 AM, Anacharsis wrote:
Absolutely fair. If you aren't going to the classes, you're unlikely to do well anyway. Perhaps you also have other problems going on. What would cause one to miss too many classes afterall?

Reiterating what other people have already said, including me. If I miss the classes, of course it is my fault and I understand that. If I miss the class, I may also be wasting money and may do badly in the class.

But if I'm doing that badly anyway, so FURTHER lessen my grade just because? The class I"m talking about specifically lessens your grade by whole letter grades. If you're already doing badly, you just got an even worse grade for not going. Not because you didn't learn anything and failed tests (you already got docked for that), but just because you weren't there.

Alternatively, another person can go there and no learn anything, but he gets the minimum grade and passes the class. You both technically did the exact same amount of work with the same quality, but you weren't there so you failed.

I think this is wrong. :(

Also, this is college. It doesn't matter what causes you to miss the class unless one of your limbs got blown away by a shotgun. You HAVE to be there.
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TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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11/13/2010 9:13:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 10:46:53 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 11/11/2010 8:00:50 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Maybe to provide an incentive to come to class?

The price of tuition should be incentive enough...

That is what motivates me to get my lazy @ss up in the mornings. In high school, I rarely made it to class more than 3 days a week.
Loserboi
Posts: 1,232
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11/14/2010 12:38:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 8:11:16 AM, lovelife wrote:
I never understood it. In highschool if you miss 5 days (a semester) you automatically fail the class. That never made sense to me.


[[Once you miss the 5 days, why even bother coming to class? Because if you don't truancy officers get involved!

They piss me off (I had a friend that was 17 and in 10th grade. She got suspended for testing positive for pot, her parents didn't give a sh!t. She went out to get something to eat and the truancy officers fined her for not being in school, during school hours. Min age to drop out is 16, so I don't get how they had a case.....at all.]]

Your attendance in high school determines how much money the school gets...
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/14/2010 12:42:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM, Net56 wrote:
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair? Shouldn't the student's grade be determined by the actual work he has done instead of the amount of classes he missed? The student is there to learn, and for the grade. If that particular class session has to do with neither, is there any real reason he should be there? I can see docking the grade on certain days where something was due. Such as turning a paper in or taking a test. But what about the other days where it's just lecture or note-taking?

Theoretically, a student could be doing great in the class but, because he missed a certain amount of days, he makes a lower grade than he deserves. If he still aces the class, the classes he missed apparently didn't matter. Alternatively, a student doing badly and missing classes could possibly be dong badly BECAUSE he missed those classes. Why dock his grade further on the sole reason of missing the classes?

Personally, it seems like the only reason the grade is lowered is because the teacher was personally offended that you weren't there. The student may technically have not needed to be there, but the teacher may be worried about facing empty classrooms. Is this a valid reason, though?

This disturbs me, honestly. What do you people think about this?

its a little more complicated than that. students who miss class tend to do worse overall than students who do not. the policy is probably meant to deter students who would consider skipping class and thus actually serves to improve their grade overall.

as much as we pay lip service to the idea that college students are adults and can make their own decisions, the fact is that many tend to make quite bad decisions, and that they would be better off it they attended class on a regular basis. so there is a rationale behind it.

on the other hand, its really quite paternalistic and i don't appreciate it at all. if i think i can pass the class without attending regularly then why not give me the chance to either succeed or fail?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Loserboi
Posts: 1,232
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11/14/2010 6:20:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
it is really important to attend class. The college classes i am in they do not go by the books, they like to add information that is not even in the book so lectures are critical. All my classes attendance is not mandatory... but it would hurt my grade if i missed any lectures, which i have done. Like for example my history teacher shows a movie at random times of the week and our test will have 25% on the stuff in the movies.
Net56
Posts: 6
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11/15/2010 11:22:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Again, I'm not arguing against coming to class. I know coming to class is a big deal, but it's like taking a student who MIGHT fail for not coming to class and FORCING him to fail because he didn't come to class. Only other thing I can think of is that they want you to be there because jobs wouldn't accept being late for work. But they never even mention things like that, so I'm still confused as to where this policy stems from. It seems a bit harsh.

And these are ANY classes, not just the important ones. I go to class sometimes, and there would be technical issues. We would just end up sitting there for the whole class time and not really doing anything.
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Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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11/26/2010 6:11:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM, Net56 wrote:
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair?

Why are you concerned with "fair?" You signed up with that college, you agreed to their rules. "Fair" has nothing to do with it. You're an adult now, with the ability to sign contracts for yourself; presumably you're old enough to read them and abide by the terms.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/26/2010 8:24:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/26/2010 6:11:38 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 11/11/2010 7:27:39 AM, Net56 wrote:
Was just thinking. In college now, and one of my teachers has this policy, where if you miss a certain amount of classes, your grade is lowered (significantly).

Is that really fair?

It's also for your own good. Miss too much class and you'll fail anyway.

Isn't paternalism grand?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)