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RFD for sex education in schools.

fire_wings
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3/19/2016 8:17:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
missbailey8 v.s. Hayd

http://www.debate.org...

Con won. I will explain.

Conduct

Conduct is to CON for the forfeit.

Arguments

Pro"s arguments

Prevention of Disease

This is a bare assertion.

Teen pregnancy

The topic is if they should be learned in schools, not allowed. Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not. They are studying this in schools. So Pro"s arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite.

Abuse

Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion.

Sex is healthy and natural

My opponent says that this can be taught from schools. This was one of the best arguments yet, but then still, this does not make us teach sex education.

Con rebuts by saying that it is the exact opposite of what a child will actually do, making the points against Pro. All of Pro"s points are refuted and in Con"s favor. Pro fails to defend any of their arguments.

Con"s arguments

Con"s first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can"t rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners. Argument won by Con.

Con"s second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child"s choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child"s liberty.

Con states that teaching them these stuff, it might be worse. Even though this is a bare assertion, Pro fails to rebut this.

Conclusion
Vote for Con. Pro"s arguments are basically against him, and Con"s arguments were good. Also vote for Con from the forfeit. Vote Con/.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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3/20/2016 3:46:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 8:17:45 PM, fire_wings wrote:
missbailey8 v.s. Hayd

http://www.debate.org...

Con won. I will explain.

Conduct

Conduct is to CON for the forfeit.

Arguments

Pro"s arguments

Prevention of Disease

This is a bare assertion.

Teen pregnancy

The topic is if they should be learned in schools, not allowed. Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not. They are studying this in schools. So Pro"s arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite.

Abuse

Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion.

Sex is healthy and natural

My opponent says that this can be taught from schools. This was one of the best arguments yet, but then still, this does not make us teach sex education.

Con rebuts by saying that it is the exact opposite of what a child will actually do, making the points against Pro. All of Pro"s points are refuted and in Con"s favor. Pro fails to defend any of their arguments.

Con"s arguments

Con"s first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can"t rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners. Argument won by Con.

Con"s second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child"s choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child"s liberty.

Con states that teaching them these stuff, it might be worse. Even though this is a bare assertion, Pro fails to rebut this.

Conclusion
Vote for Con. Pro"s arguments are basically against him, and Con"s arguments were good. Also vote for Con from the forfeit. Vote Con/.

Thank you for the RFD firewings! I appreciate it!
CodingSource
Posts: 350
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3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Good debate Hayd. Well done!
If computers have no doors or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?

I have a 10-0-0 debate record with an ELO ranking of 2,814. From 610th during my first two-week stay, I am now 326th in the Debates Leaderboard: http://www.debate.org...
fire_wings
Posts: 5,563
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3/20/2016 4:01:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 3:46:53 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/19/2016 8:17:45 PM, fire_wings wrote:
missbailey8 v.s. Hayd

http://www.debate.org...

Con won. I will explain.

Conduct

Conduct is to CON for the forfeit.

Arguments

Pro"s arguments

Prevention of Disease

This is a bare assertion.

Teen pregnancy

The topic is if they should be learned in schools, not allowed. Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not. They are studying this in schools. So Pro"s arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite.

Abuse

Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion.

Sex is healthy and natural

My opponent says that this can be taught from schools. This was one of the best arguments yet, but then still, this does not make us teach sex education.

Con rebuts by saying that it is the exact opposite of what a child will actually do, making the points against Pro. All of Pro"s points are refuted and in Con"s favor. Pro fails to defend any of their arguments.

Con"s arguments

Con"s first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can"t rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners. Argument won by Con.

Con"s second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child"s choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child"s liberty.

Con states that teaching them these stuff, it might be worse. Even though this is a bare assertion, Pro fails to rebut this.

Conclusion
Vote for Con. Pro"s arguments are basically against him, and Con"s arguments were good. Also vote for Con from the forfeit. Vote Con/.

Thank you for the RFD firewings! I appreciate it!

no problem. that literally took me 13 minutes.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
fire_wings
Posts: 5,563
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3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
CodingSource
Posts: 350
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3/20/2016 4:04:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:01:29 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:46:53 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/19/2016 8:17:45 PM, fire_wings wrote:
missbailey8 v.s. Hayd

http://www.debate.org...

Con won. I will explain.

Conduct

Conduct is to CON for the forfeit.

Arguments

Pro"s arguments

Prevention of Disease

This is a bare assertion.

Teen pregnancy

The topic is if they should be learned in schools, not allowed. Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not. They are studying this in schools. So Pro"s arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite.

Abuse

Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion.

Sex is healthy and natural

My opponent says that this can be taught from schools. This was one of the best arguments yet, but then still, this does not make us teach sex education.

Con rebuts by saying that it is the exact opposite of what a child will actually do, making the points against Pro. All of Pro"s points are refuted and in Con"s favor. Pro fails to defend any of their arguments.

Con"s arguments

Con"s first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can"t rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners. Argument won by Con.

Con"s second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child"s choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child"s liberty.

Con states that teaching them these stuff, it might be worse. Even though this is a bare assertion, Pro fails to rebut this.

Conclusion
Vote for Con. Pro"s arguments are basically against him, and Con"s arguments were good. Also vote for Con from the forfeit. Vote Con/.

Thank you for the RFD firewings! I appreciate it!

no problem. that literally took me 13 minutes.

Good thing you record how much time you consume one thing haha!
If computers have no doors or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?

I have a 10-0-0 debate record with an ELO ranking of 2,814. From 610th during my first two-week stay, I am now 326th in the Debates Leaderboard: http://www.debate.org...
CodingSource
Posts: 350
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3/20/2016 4:06:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.

Of course, he is a good debater like you. He has a good list of debates.
If computers have no doors or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?

I have a 10-0-0 debate record with an ELO ranking of 2,814. From 610th during my first two-week stay, I am now 326th in the Debates Leaderboard: http://www.debate.org...
fire_wings
Posts: 5,563
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3/20/2016 4:28:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:06:35 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.

Of course, he is a good debater like you. He has a good list of debates.

I am not a good debater. I like noobsniping which makes me have good elo though.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
fire_wings
Posts: 5,563
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3/20/2016 4:30:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:04:03 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:01:29 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:46:53 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/19/2016 8:17:45 PM, fire_wings wrote:
missbailey8 v.s. Hayd

http://www.debate.org...

Con won. I will explain.

Conduct

Conduct is to CON for the forfeit.

Arguments

Pro"s arguments

Prevention of Disease

This is a bare assertion.

Teen pregnancy

The topic is if they should be learned in schools, not allowed. Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not. They are studying this in schools. So Pro"s arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite.

Abuse

Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion.

Sex is healthy and natural

My opponent says that this can be taught from schools. This was one of the best arguments yet, but then still, this does not make us teach sex education.

Con rebuts by saying that it is the exact opposite of what a child will actually do, making the points against Pro. All of Pro"s points are refuted and in Con"s favor. Pro fails to defend any of their arguments.

Con"s arguments

Con"s first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can"t rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners. Argument won by Con.

Con"s second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child"s choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child"s liberty.

Con states that teaching them these stuff, it might be worse. Even though this is a bare assertion, Pro fails to rebut this.

Conclusion
Vote for Con. Pro"s arguments are basically against him, and Con"s arguments were good. Also vote for Con from the forfeit. Vote Con/.

Thank you for the RFD firewings! I appreciate it!

no problem. that literally took me 13 minutes.

Good thing you record how much time you consume one thing haha!

I put RFD's on two of Hayd's debates. The one with Tuf was 1 hour and 49 minutes.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
CodingSource
Posts: 350
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3/20/2016 4:30:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:28:50 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:06:35 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.

Of course, he is a good debater like you. He has a good list of debates.

I am not a good debater. I like noobsniping which makes me have good elo though.

I can't be able to vote for your debate as a judge (you nominated me and I accept, remember?) because I lost my voting privileges. Sorry.
If computers have no doors or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?

I have a 10-0-0 debate record with an ELO ranking of 2,814. From 610th during my first two-week stay, I am now 326th in the Debates Leaderboard: http://www.debate.org...
fire_wings
Posts: 5,563
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3/20/2016 4:56:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:30:41 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:28:50 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:06:35 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.

Of course, he is a good debater like you. He has a good list of debates.

I am not a good debater. I like noobsniping which makes me have good elo though.

I can't be able to vote for your debate as a judge (you nominated me and I accept, remember?) because I lost my voting privileges. Sorry.

okay, anyways I am winning.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
CodingSource
Posts: 350
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3/21/2016 4:00:44 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/20/2016 4:56:34 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:30:41 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:28:50 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:06:35 PM, CodingSource wrote:
At 3/20/2016 4:03:53 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 3/20/2016 3:52:57 PM, CodingSource wrote:
Good debate Hayd. Well done!

Not the best debate I read from him though.

Of course, he is a good debater like you. He has a good list of debates.

I am not a good debater. I like noobsniping which makes me have good elo though.

I can't be able to vote for your debate as a judge (you nominated me and I accept, remember?) because I lost my voting privileges. Sorry.

okay, anyways I am winning.

You shocked the man in your argument haha. Well, my vote is going to be like this: "Conduct to fire_wings as his opponent forfeited and violated the Round Rules."
If computers have no doors or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?

I have a 10-0-0 debate record with an ELO ranking of 2,814. From 610th during my first two-week stay, I am now 326th in the Debates Leaderboard: http://www.debate.org...
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
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4/29/2016 7:08:09 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Fire has failed to justify any possible problems with their vote. He merely said my vote is "wrong," without properly justifying that claim - I doubt he has even *read* my RFD. I've repeatedly asked him what's wrong with my vote, and he has replied: "Your reasoning was fine, your decision is wrong." That begs the question. One can't assume the conclusion is false if the premises are true. On that account, I will proceed to analyze Fire's vote soon and explain why my reasoning is perfectly sound. Fire's proclamation that his vote is the only correct one is completely unwarranted. Sure, there are people who do that, but they are usually people with strong reasoning as to *why* that is the case. Fire has failed to provide any reasoning for his claim, and to that extent, the claim is nonsense.

Let's look to Fire's analysis now.

"Prevention of disease . . . is a bare assertion."

This is objectively wrong. Pro clearly explained that (1) STD's exist [which is an obvious fact which both sides agreed to], (2) usage of condoms reduces rate of STD's occurring, and (3) sex ed teaches how to use condoms and prevent diseases. So there *is* a coherent impact to this which Fire absolutely failed to consider.

"Pro is basically thinking that this will happen to them, but then, they are not [sic]. They are studying this in schools. So Pro's arguments are basically useless. You can vote Con for this. Pro says this education might make teens do this. Con rebuts this by saying that they will do the opposite."

This is horrible analysis of the argument. It's completely grammatically incoherent too. First, the statement "they are studying this in schools" assumes sex education, but Con is arguing *against* sex ed. The voter doesn't explain how this is relevant either. It doesn't make Pro's arguments "completely useless." Next, the voter says Con has a certain rebuttal. The voter fails to explain how the rebuttal was compelling to them at all.

"Says everyone has the right to learn, but then does not give any proof. Another bare assertion."

(1) This is a complete misrepresentation of the "abuse" argument. Sure, that *part* was a bare assertion, but that isn't even the argument. The actual argument was that not having sex ed would result in harassment without proper knowledge. (2) I agree that the link wasn't clearly explained (read: a bare assertion), but Con drops harassment, so it should still be weighed. Under-explained arguments should be weighed less, not discredited.

"Con's first argument is that teenage boys will get boners if they listen or do sex. Con points that boners are on [sic] of the worst things for teenage kids, and explains why. Pro says this is puberty, but then can't rebut half of the argument of boners. Con defends by saying that Pro failed to rebut the boners."

(1) The voter fails to explain how the embarrassment outweighs the impacts from Pro's side. This impact is so unclearly explained, since embarrassment isn't sufficient at all. (2) The voter applies an inconsistent standard - if the previous arguments were bare assertions, this definitely was one.

"Con's second argument is basically liberty. Con says that it can be good or bad, it is the child's choice, and that does not mean the schools have to do this. Good argument. Pro fails to rebut about the child's liberty."

This argument was not about the child's liberty, it was about the parent's liberty - and that was only a small part. The main argument was that it's subjective. But the impact of liberty *pales* in comparison to Pro's impacts.

Overall, a poor RFD that failed to weigh relative impacts against each other properly and dismissed well-explained arguments as "bare assertions." It seems like the voter already had a decision in mind before reading the debate and then just cherry-picked arguments that suited that conclusion. I rarely publicly critique votes like this, but Fire explicitly called my vote out without justification, when it's clear that *his* vote has the problems, not mine.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass