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blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/12/2011 12:35:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think that this program is a complete waste of time and money. If someone doesn't want to try, let them fail. If someone is trying, and failing, then they can invest their money in a tutor, not my tax money. Also, as mean as it sounds, when you get kids with an inability to learn high level information without help, it's time to stop. The money invested in them won't be returned. Your not going to get many, if any, people who are mentally retarded becoming engineers or doctors or scientists. The money invested in them should go to the other end of the educational spectrum. Invest it in those who will pay it back. The people who will become engineers, doctors, and scientists. There is a much higher chance that they will go somewhere, so invest in them. Here's a little comparison in my opinion. Investing in the lower end of the spectrum over the high end would be like choosing to receive 100 Microsoft shares over 100 Apple shares.

What is everyone else's opinion?
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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2/12/2011 4:26:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The only disagreement I have is with the taxpayer-funded second chances for people who are either academically struggling or not trying. There should be on-hand tutors at schools to help kids that are falling behind so that they can still pass the courses and learn the material, which will make them a more advanced asset for society later on.

Likewise, there are many people who don't excel in high school for not trying, but later want to attend college and take school seriously. Rather than leave someone working at a convenient store for the rest of his/her life, that person should be able to attend community college -- get a second chance. This will yield a societal payback as well, for the individual in question will end up more highly educated.
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/12/2011 6:58:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 4:26:59 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
The only disagreement I have is with the taxpayer-funded second chances for people who are either academically struggling or not trying. There should be on-hand tutors at schools to help kids that are falling behind so that they can still pass the courses and learn the material, which will make them a more advanced asset for society later on.

Likewise, there are many people who don't excel in high school for not trying, but later want to attend college and take school seriously. Rather than leave someone working at a convenient store for the rest of his/her life, that person should be able to attend community college -- get a second chance. This will yield a societal payback as well, for the individual in question will end up more highly educated.

I'm not saying to eliminate community colleges. I mean school aids, and special ad classes. The people who have aids following them aren't trying anyway, and are never going to go anywhere. Plus, the aids seem to think they are there for those of us that don't need them. I, personally, am in 3 advanced classes, what's considered the hardest foreign language offered by our school(advanced isn't offered), and academic english. I certainly don't need an aid telling me what to do, and if I have a question, I want the teacher to answer. Yet, I have seen aids who try to be more prominent in the class than the teachers. That's what I was referring to eliminating. I will admit that while helping the lower end will give them a higher education, I would like to say that what they actually remember and comprehend will probably be flush with my high school ed, if that. Why invest money in getting someone to a max of a high school ed when the same money could be used to advance the higher end of the spectrum even more.
That being said, I do know that the people who actually can't learn the stuff tend to be nice, in my school at least, and I think we should have something else for them to do. In terms of jobs, that is.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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2/17/2011 1:42:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree about the aides. I was referring to having tutors available in the library or study hall, so legitimately struggling students can receive that help.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/17/2011 1:55:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:35:29 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
I think that this program is a complete waste of time and money. If someone doesn't want to try, let them fail.
Agreed

If someone is trying, and failing, then they can invest their money in a tutor, not my tax money.

Disagreed. Most people that need the help are poor anyway so what your saying is "fvck the poor, they can struggle all I care about is what the rich can pay and keeping all my money"

Also, as mean as it sounds, when you get kids with an inability to learn high level information without help, it's time to stop.

If they no longer wish to learn they shouldn't be forced to.

The money invested in them won't be returned. Your not going to get many, if any, people who are mentally retarded becoming engineers or doctors or scientists.

You'd be surprised. Your the type that would have given up on Helen Keller, rather than help.

The money invested in them should go to the other end of the educational spectrum. Invest it in those who will pay it back. The people who will become engineers, doctors, and scientists.

The money wasted on those who sit there and don't want to do anything should go there, for those that try it should stay the same or increase.

There is a much higher chance that they will go somewhere, so invest in them.

An education isn't the stock market, its someone's future, their potential to pull through the class struggle and rising higher. Maybe they don't go much higher but with time their family could pull up, and that's something to be proud of. Not something greedy fvcks should be able to steal.

Here's a little comparison in my opinion. Investing in the lower end of the spectrum over the high end would be like choosing to receive 100 Microsoft shares over 100 Apple shares.

What is everyone else's opinion?

See above
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/17/2011 2:00:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Teacher's aides, especially in the younger classes, are very important actually.
I know my mom is a teacher and when she has aides she has someone who can help other students, run copies, help grade papers, take students to the bathroom etc.

At higher levels it might just be for helping the students with questions, or running small errands, much like a receptionist.

Its not actually a bad thing, and they do serve a purpose, and that purpose is helping free up the teacher so they can do their job rather than just beak up fights, constantly calling parents, or helping the same student all day.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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2/19/2011 1:06:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/17/2011 1:44:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Nobody mentioned that standardized testing is a sh*tty indicator of academic achievement.

What might make a better alternative?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/19/2011 1:11:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/17/2011 1:44:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Nobody mentioned that standardized testing is a sh*tty indicator of academic achievement.

it's easy...

schools are all different... and for the Fed Govt. to know what's what.. and who's Really performing when they get A's... would take a lot of checking.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/19/2011 11:37:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/17/2011 2:00:29 PM, lovelife wrote:
Teacher's aides, especially in the younger classes, are very important actually.
I know my mom is a teacher and when she has aides she has someone who can help other students, run copies, help grade papers, take students to the bathroom etc.

At higher levels it might just be for helping the students with questions, or running small errands, much like a receptionist.

Its not actually a bad thing, and they do serve a purpose, and that purpose is helping free up the teacher so they can do their job rather than just beak up fights, constantly calling parents, or helping the same student all day.

Speaking as a current student, aides are useless. I never see them do anything but get in the way.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/20/2011 3:02:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/19/2011 1:06:50 AM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 2/17/2011 1:44:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Nobody mentioned that standardized testing is a sh*tty indicator of academic achievement.

What might make a better alternative?

this.

theres a lot of problems basing evaluations solely on test scores, but theres a lot of problems basing it solely on teacher reports or even gpa as well (though iirc gpa is the best indicator?)

anyways, thats why multiple indicators are usually used together. in the case of national programs however, especially when teachers are being graded, with their pay dependent on the results, you can't expect them to evaluate their students (and thus themselves) with any amount of objectivity. given the sheer number of public school students its entirely impractical to rely on any other sort of measure....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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2/20/2011 1:40:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:35:29 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
What is everyone else's opinion?

Well, first of all, your post is extremely annoying to read.

Also, I don't know if I necessarily care about "investing" every single dollar towards education in people who will, by your definition, "improve" society. I think I'd honestly care more about the peace of mind that comes with giving people, especially kids, good educational opportunities. I don't want to live in a place where if you aren't doing well on tests as a kid, you're cast aside because you won't become a scientist.
Austin96
Posts: 56
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3/28/2011 11:42:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/20/2011 1:40:31 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:35:29 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
What is everyone else's opinion?

Well, first of all, your post is extremely annoying to read.

Also, I don't know if I necessarily care about "investing" every single dollar towards education in people who will, by your definition, "improve" society. I think I'd honestly care more about the peace of mind that comes with giving people, especially kids, good educational opportunities. I don't want to live in a place where if you aren't doing well on tests as a kid, you're cast aside because you won't become a scientist.

The difference here is that by abolishing this act, and investing in more driven kids, you would be giving money to kids who would take those educational opportunities and use them to progress. If you're just giving money to random, unmotivated kids you're wasting valuable resources. If you invest in a driven person who will use those opportunities to progress, then you can have real peace of mind.
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.