Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

Auto Tune?

FlavourWave
Posts: 13
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/2/2009 11:31:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Why has it become acceptable for singers to not be able to sing now a days?

Can you imagine any of the great singers like Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan lip syncing or auto tuning their songs?
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 10:18:20 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 10:10:59 AM, JBlake wrote:
The only thing I have to say to the OP is... Bruce Springsteen? Great Singer?

lol The Boss!

To be fair (although I am a huge admirer of him and personally quite like his voice), Bob Dylan is also not technically a very good singer in many people's opinion and he's certainly more popular for his lyrics than his tone.

By the way, I'm not a big Jay-z fan. I just thought he expressed the opinion on autotune quite well here.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 10:21:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
hah!

I was too busy making fun of Bruce Springstein to even notice that your other example was an even worse vocalist. I can't believe I missed a chance to make fun of Bob Dylan. Great poet and lyricist - awful vocalist.

How about great singers like Freddie Mercury and Chris Robinson?
pogib14
Posts: 7
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:33:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think most the reason current singers can suck is given the fact that most the time when the CD's come out most of the vocals are digitally fixed so when hey are live thus their suckish singing.
Bec
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:37:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 10:15:10 AM, Nags wrote:
Bruce Springstein is a communist.

How does that impact his singing ability?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:42:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 12:37:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/10/2009 10:15:10 AM, Nags wrote:
Bruce Springstein is a communist.

How does that impact his singing ability?

It affects WHAT he sings about and HOW he portrays it, if it's true (I don't know, as I know nothing about Springsteen, but I seem to have vague recollections that the sort of people who speak positively about him are often of similar political persuasions :) ). It often takes just as much skill to create a work of supreme ugliness as it does to make one of supreme beauty, but will a given audience find both to be of equal value?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:43:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Because he doesn't have any incentive to sing well. Only capitalists have the incentive to perform their duties well. Therefore he can't be a good singer. Obviously...

That goes with John Lennon, too!
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:48:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 12:42:04 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It affects WHAT he sings about and HOW he portrays it, if it's true (I don't know, as I know nothing about Springsteen, but I seem to have vague recollections that the sort of people who speak positively about him are often of similar political persuasions :) ). It often takes just as much skill to create a work of supreme ugliness as it does to make one of supreme beauty, but will a given audience find both to be of equal value?

They will if you do not include lyrics and go only by tone and range; that is the test that would allow for an unbiased critique of the singer's ability.

And that is what we're discussing - the singer's ability. Political persuasions have nothing to do if you can sing; pro-capitalism voices sound just as good or bad as pro-communism voices.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:48:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Economic incentives are primarily systemic, Blake. What matters for them is not primarily whether the producer is capitalist or communist or some mix, but whether they live in a place governed by someone who is. That's how we get George Soros, Armand Hammer, those sorts of arseholes. Do they still have to contradict their ethical premises to pull it off? Pretty much, but they do that all the time anyway :).

Of course, even in Soviet Russia, people sang, no doubt, though except to the extent the communist system was corrupted as a special exception to them they could not do so on a professional level.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:53:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 12:48:27 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/10/2009 12:42:04 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It affects WHAT he sings about and HOW he portrays it, if it's true (I don't know, as I know nothing about Springsteen, but I seem to have vague recollections that the sort of people who speak positively about him are often of similar political persuasions :) ). It often takes just as much skill to create a work of supreme ugliness as it does to make one of supreme beauty, but will a given audience find both to be of equal value?

They will if you do not include lyrics and go only by tone and range; that is the test that would allow for an unbiased critique of the singer's ability.
People intentionally alter how they show their tone and range just as much as they do their lyrics. See also, death metal pig squeals.
In any case, what use is holding a note except to construct a melody out of it, whether it's lyrical or not? Lyrics are not the only element of music that conveys politics. A lot of Wagner's music lacked lyrics, yet people listening to it still feel a faint tug to invade Poland :).

Political persuasions have nothing to do if you can sing; pro-capitalism voices sound just as good or bad as pro-communism voices.
If you're holding one note? Yes, but that's bloody irrelevant to any song anyone gives a damn about. "Unbiased" tests like your one-note test are another word for "Biased to hear the voice and nothing more." Singing isn't about how a note sounds, it's about the song.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 12:59:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 12:53:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
In any case, what use is holding a note except to construct a melody out of it, whether it's lyrical or not? Lyrics are not the only element of music that conveys politics. A lot of Wagner's music lacked lyrics, yet people listening to it still feel a faint tug to invade Poland :).

Again - I'm not talking in lyrical matters. I could care less. We're talking about singing ability purely, not about the incentive to sing or whatever else - the ability to hold notes, range and all that other good stuff. Not lyrical matters.


If you're holding one note? Yes, but that's bloody irrelevant to any song anyone gives a damn about. "Unbiased" tests like your one-note test are another word for "Biased to hear the voice and nothing more." Singing isn't about how a note sounds, it's about the song.

One of the most important aspects of having the ability to sing is your ability to sing notes - which is what I'm referencing to, not the lyrical contents. Just the simple ability to produce - not what the product is.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 1:06:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Haha, I knew I would get a good reaction from you guys.

My thoughts:

>Bruce Springsteen was one of the greatest singers in the 20th century..
>>But, he was a communist who didn't believe in private property and wanted the USA to become like Soviet Russia.
>>>Thus, people have negative views towards Bruce.

>Adolf Hitler was one of the greatest leaders in the history of the world.
>>But, he was a Nazi dictator bent on world domination.
>>>Thus, people have negative views towards Hitler.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 1:07:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The discussion started when you said his "singing ability." The ability to sing refers to the ability to sing songs. Is a set of vocal cords suited to the kind of song you want to sing important? Yes. Is it the only factor? No.

If you'd merely joked about communism referencing his pitch or whatever, that would be one thing, but "singing ability" is a holistic term.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 1:12:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/10/2009 1:07:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The discussion started when you said his "singing ability." The ability to sing refers to the ability to sing songs. Is a set of vocal cords suited to the kind of song you want to sing important? Yes. Is it the only factor? No.

If you'd merely joked about communism referencing his pitch or whatever, that would be one thing, but "singing ability" is a holistic term.

When I started saying things about tone and range, I figured people would clue in.

But no, obviously it isn't the only factor - it was just the one I was talking about. Clearly, if the singer inflicts a certain mood and has lyrical content that is rather offensive, pointless or whatever, it will affect the audience's views of the songs. It's a given.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2009 2:09:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Singing ability is your ability to sing (tone, pitch, range, vocal expression, using the voice as an instrument etc.)

Ragnar seems to be confusing it with song-writing (lyrics, melody, content, self-expresson, politics etc.)