Total Posts:60|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Mentalist

badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 9:41:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Spoiler alert!

Just watched the latest episode there. Jane broke Loreli out of prison, they went for a lovely romantic drive together, he told her Red John killed her sister, she half cracked in the heat of such a moment and told Jane he and Red John had shaken hands before!!!! Holy sh1t, who is he?!?!?!?!?

I've been figuring Bret Stiles myself all along, but it's hardly that easy do ye think?!?!?!?

But then there is that... well... who the fvck else could it be?

Surely there are some mentalist fans here? Is Jane gonna just shoot Bret Stiles in the face in the next episode and that's the series over? aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!11!!!1 it's gotten kinda stale though in fairness... i thought he was gone completely rogue the start of this season and i nearly came in my pants. damn i was disappointed.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 9:56:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i got sick of dexter around season 3 tbh. perhaps because i've had so much real life gore, dunno... i got bored anyway. lol.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 9:58:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
COME ON, SOMEONE BRAINSTORM WITH ME AS TO WHO RED JOHN COULD BE???!?!?!?! i've really got no one in mind besides bret stiles... damn, the series is over. twisted fvcks, a genial looking old man's gonna get shot in the face in the next episode. make sure you're watching!!
signature
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 1:53:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
In the most recent episode, we learn that Jane has shaken Red John's hand already. That narrows the list down to someone Jane has already met. Except that's not as helpful as you might think, given that (1) any decent plot twist as to RJ's identity would involve him being a surprising character (possibly one we already know), or (2) the show can always do a flashback to someone Jane has met, but we, the audience, haven't. So it doesn't really narrow the list for us, since (1) we could guess it's probably someone we already met (or if not, what's the point of guessing), and (2) it doesn't guarantee that it's someone we met.

RJ has to be someone devious and complex, and it has to be someone Loreli knows Jane has met [some people speculate that the newest cop on the show - from Homeland Security - is Red John but Loreli doesn't know they met since she was in prison].

Anyways, only three people would be both (1) interesting and (2) conceivable as a RJ reveal.

The first is Bret Stiles. He seems like an obvious choice. He is a cult leader for Visualize. RJ has his own cult murderer following. Stiles also has a weird inside knowledge of RJ's plans, such as when he located Christina Frye after RJ kidnapped her. However, both these factors make him too obvious a choice. I am usually able to predict the killer on most cops shows by eliminating the most obvious early candidates. Stiles would be a boring reveal.

The second is Rosalind, the blind woman who supposedly had a romantic relationship with Red John (which explains the red smiley in her house). I could see a "Usual Suspects" type reveal at the end - she's not blind + RJ is a woman. There's a certain symmetry to this theory. Jane = a woman's name, John = a man's name. RJ kills only women, yet there doesn't appear to be any sexual motive for "his" crimes. I could see some motive, such as Rosalind being a cynical intellectual who resents the docile housewife. Or something like that. It's not clear why RJ kills, except for the thrill and the power.

Third is Jane himself. Call this the "Fight Club" reveal. I think this reveal breaks the entire spirit of the show though. It's kind of like the plot twist that people feared in Lost during season 2, that everyone was dead the whole time and all the weird stuff that was happening was because they were in purgatory.

Some people think LaRoche is RJ. This also seems like a distinct possibility, especially given the actor playing him, who would easily be able to pull of that role. I don't find RJ being a cop a very interesting reveal though, but the fan base views LaRoche differently than most of the other cops, so who knows.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 2:01:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
LaRoche, to be fair, is a really solid theory. He's supposed to be a devious genius, which is why he is called in to do the IA investigation. His initials are "J.J." For all we know, his first name is John. Maybe the JJ together signifies John/Jane. He never does make much progress on the hunt for RJ's mole within the department, despite everyone saying he is a genius at his job. I mean, he narrows down the list considerably, but you would think he'd catch the mole, if he were truly that smart, instead of focusing so much on Jane.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 3:05:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I came here to tell the OP to talk to bluesteel, but it looks like his Mentalist-sense was already tingling.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 7:05:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 1:53:38 AM, bluesteel wrote:
In the most recent episode, we learn that Jane has shaken Red John's hand already. That narrows the list down to someone Jane has already met. Except that's not as helpful as you might think, given that (1) any decent plot twist as to RJ's identity would involve him being a surprising character (possibly one we already know), or (2) the show can always do a flashback to someone Jane has met, but we, the audience, haven't. So it doesn't really narrow the list for us, since (1) we could guess it's probably someone we already met (or if not, what's the point of guessing), and (2) it doesn't guarantee that it's someone we met.

RJ has to be someone devious and complex, and it has to be someone Loreli knows Jane has met [some people speculate that the newest cop on the show - from Homeland Security - is Red John but Loreli doesn't know they met since she was in prison].

Anyways, only three people would be both (1) interesting and (2) conceivable as a RJ reveal.

The first is Bret Stiles. He seems like an obvious choice. He is a cult leader for Visualize. RJ has his own cult murderer following. Stiles also has a weird inside knowledge of RJ's plans, such as when he located Christina Frye after RJ kidnapped her. However, both these factors make him too obvious a choice. I am usually able to predict the killer on most cops shows by eliminating the most obvious early candidates. Stiles would be a boring reveal.

The second is Rosalind, the blind woman who supposedly had a romantic relationship with Red John (which explains the red smiley in her house). I could see a "Usual Suspects" type reveal at the end - she's not blind + RJ is a woman. There's a certain symmetry to this theory. Jane = a woman's name, John = a man's name. RJ kills only women, yet there doesn't appear to be any sexual motive for "his" crimes. I could see some motive, such as Rosalind being a cynical intellectual who resents the docile housewife. Or something like that. It's not clear why RJ kills, except for the thrill and the power.

Third is Jane himself. Call this the "Fight Club" reveal. I think this reveal breaks the entire spirit of the show though. It's kind of like the plot twist that people feared in Lost during season 2, that everyone was dead the whole time and all the weird stuff that was happening was because they were in purgatory.

Some people think LaRoche is RJ. This also seems like a distinct possibility, especially given the actor playing him, who would easily be able to pull of that role. I don't find RJ being a cop a very interesting reveal though, but the fan base views LaRoche differently than most of the other cops, so who knows.

you're forgetting a fourth. walter mashburn. there's how he loved being a suspect and he has the power. red john does like to play with jane... he's given jane reason to suspect both the blind lady in his leading him to her and bret stiles in how he knew where to find kristina frye... walter mashburn's part in the series is rather coincidental, and though jane does make speech against fretting at such coincidences, that only leaves it more coincidental again in that he appears after red john has already killed kristina frye who made jane consider such. and he also went straight and fvcked lisbon, as in possibly to say, if red john, "what the fvck are you playing at, patrick?"

you also don't seem to have at all considered that it was all part of red john's plan for loreli to offer up the information she did. i mean it did come rather easily and everything we got was but from the name roy pretty much. perhaps red john is taking his revenge on jane for stringing him along with something he wanted to believe in an earlier episode in responding in kind? perhaps your flashback episode is actually just a smoke screen :P i mean last time roy lead jane to nothing, a blind lady. perhaps this is a joke on red john's part. perhaps they've never met and red john's sending jane off on a wild duck chase and one with relation to a blind lady as to take a dig at him for being powerless...

they've it set up damn well in fairness to them. i'd still personally shoot bret stiles in the face though.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 7:11:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
you could consider jane's first encounter with "roy" and where it lead him a dig at jane by red john for being powerless. as in to say "you're blind". and then that this lead once again, with relation to that last, is the same.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 11:17:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
he would of course have had to have anticipated jane's plan though and thus not actually been strung along, but that's just more awesome again really.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 11:21:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
it makes much more sense to be that that flashback episode be a smoke screen anyway, because the show is just plain awesome, and, well, if it's not a smoke screen, then that takes from the awesomeness, leaving it seeming just thrown together.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 2:07:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i'd personally expect red john to be someone like jane, someone who had his wife taken from him also, giving rise to his tastes, actual vengeance upon the world. i think this explains why he likes jane so much. he sees himself in him, seeks justification of himself within jane. i don't actually think we've met him yet, nor that will we ever perhaps. i mean you can see jane changing, the lines blurring for him. first he killed who he thought to be red john, then panzer, and is it to stop there? what if he gets no true vengeance? perhaps we're witnessing the making of a serial killer, an utterly cold reality, rather than some clash between good and evil that must draw to a close? granted, that would makes for royally fvcked up television, and to set a precedent like never before, but it makes sense as regards the plot thus far.
signature
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 6:58:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 3:05:18 AM, Maikuru wrote:
I came here to tell the OP to talk to bluesteel, but it looks like his Mentalist-sense was already tingling.

lol
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2012 7:04:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 7:05:35 AM, badger wrote:

you're forgetting a fourth. walter mashburn. there's how he loved being a suspect and he has the power. red john does like to play with jane... he's given jane reason to suspect both the blind lady in his leading him to her and bret stiles in how he knew where to find kristina frye... walter mashburn's part in the series is rather coincidental, and though jane does make speech against fretting at such coincidences, that only leaves it more coincidental again in that he appears after red john has already killed kristina frye who made jane consider such. and he also went straight and fvcked lisbon, as in possibly to say, if red john, "what the fvck are you playing at, patrick?"

you also don't seem to have at all considered that it was all part of red john's plan for loreli to offer up the information she did. i mean it did come rather easily and everything we got was but from the name roy pretty much. perhaps red john is taking his revenge on jane for stringing him along with something he wanted to believe in an earlier episode in responding in kind? perhaps your flashback episode is actually just a smoke screen :P i mean last time roy lead jane to nothing, a blind lady. perhaps this is a joke on red john's part. perhaps they've never met and red john's sending jane off on a wild duck chase and one with relation to a blind lady as to take a dig at him for being powerless...

they've it set up damn well in fairness to them. i'd still personally shoot bret stiles in the face though.

I guess you're not the only person to forget Mashburn. http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net... But he seemed too interest in Lisbon, and not enough in Patrick, whereas the real RJ would not be able to hide his obsession with Patrick and probably doesn't have a very health romantic interest in women.

I think what Loreli said is true. In the law, "excited utterances" are treated as having far more weight than other testimony. She said this to Patrick when he had her extremely agitated, when she realized he was con-ing her (reporting himself kidnapped).

Bruno Heller has said in interviews that RJ will be revealed within the next two seasons, so they need to start winding down now. It doesn't surprise me they narrowed the options (most likely) to a character already introduced.

And if Bret Stiles is RJ, I have no doubt Patrick will shoot him in the face.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 7:20:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
what loreli said might be true so far as she knows :3 and i really don't think you can take anything heller's saying on faith. that flashback episode just has to be a smoke screen, otherwise it's just a shitty gimmicky teaser, part of a very thrown together show. red john is just showing jane who's boss. i've actually lived my idea on epicmafia, or to a degree anyway, lol. my experience of human psychology suggests it only natural, and i figure heller would keep it real. and i mean red john clearly is a showman. the blind woman was obviously just something he set in place to tease whoever came after him that he might enjoy. and with her was the only other person we hear of him having used the alias "roy" besides with loreli's sister... it all adds up. jane's being played. red john called jane's ploy a mile away, and i mean it's not at all a stretch to believe he did, and now he's out to show jane he's the master, catching him with his own tricks, taking advantage of his desperation. i mean it's interesting that in his being what jane considered "tricked" red john, rather than coming to meet jane himself, sent him the dead body of his police chief, right? i mean that's immediate proof of caution on red john's part, and if he was so cautious as to recognise it as a possible ploy from jane and he'd have had to also realise the sort of ploy it possibly was then it only seems fitting that his response would be booby trapped, no?

dunno, dunno. i think bruno heller's following me anyway, because i've also documented online my having appealed to the emotion of a law official like how jane did with that park ranger in the latest episode and then that's two of my experiences drawn to mind by the latest episode!!

your endings are lame.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 8:48:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 7:20:59 AM, badger wrote:
what loreli said might be true so far as she knows :3 and i really don't think you can take anything heller's saying on faith. that flashback episode just has to be a smoke screen, otherwise it's just a shitty gimmicky teaser, part of a very thrown together show. red john is just showing jane who's boss. i've actually lived my idea on epicmafia, or to a degree anyway, lol. my experience of human psychology suggests it only natural, and i figure heller would keep it real. and i mean red john clearly is a showman. the blind woman was obviously just something he set in place to tease whoever came after him that he might enjoy. and with her was the only other person we hear of him having used the alias "roy" besides with loreli's sister... it all adds up. jane's being played. red john called jane's ploy a mile away, and i mean it's not at all a stretch to believe he did, and now he's out to show jane he's the master, catching him with his own tricks, taking advantage of his desperation. i mean it's interesting that in his being what jane considered "tricked" red john, rather than coming to meet jane himself, sent him the dead body of his police chief, right? i mean that's immediate proof of caution on red john's part, and if he was so cautious as to recognise it as a possible ploy from jane and he'd have had to also realise the sort of ploy it possibly was then it only seems fitting that his response would be booby trapped, no?

i mean, if you think about it, red john could've easily been expecting jane's ploy all along, him being the invisible, untouchable man. what other route was there for jane to take, in not being able to get anywhere near him ever, but to let on that he was ready to join him? loreli is a booby trap, a joke.

dunno, dunno. i think bruno heller's following me anyway, because i've also documented online my having appealed to the emotion of a law official like how jane did with that park ranger in the latest episode and then that's two of my experiences drawn to mind by the latest episode!!

your endings are lame.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 8:53:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
i'm actually pretty sure i'm right at this stage. jane is a proponent of there not being any right or wrong, that things just happen. he came into this hunt for red john from conning people. he's not a good guy. he's not the typical "good" to triumph over evil. such an ending as you would suggest would be an anticlimax, it could only be.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 9:17:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 8:53:26 AM, badger wrote:
i'm actually pretty sure i'm right at this stage. jane is a proponent of there not being any right or wrong, that things just happen. he came into this hunt for red john from conning people. he's not a good guy. he's not the typical "good" to triumph over evil. such an ending as you would suggest would be an anticlimax, it could only be.

i mean see how he presses on people, uncaring, in his investigations, just to take his own personal vengeance against murderers. there's pretty much zero humanity to be found in him... and he's getting worse as we progress. i mean he's now killed two of them and tortured another, actually utilizing red john in the murder of one, and almost beaming upon seeing his mark with its completion. this is a far cry from his earlier days, where he was left panting at seeing it. and as we progress further, in his utterly failing to get to red john, it's not too much of a stretch to think he might go even further and perhaps start taking his vengeance out on humanity as a whole, much as red john may have.

red john's plan is for jane to join him. why must the underdog win? this show is much more real than any that have come before it.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 9:32:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
interesting also that the first two cases we see jane on are with regard to adultery and a dude who murdered his daughter because she stopped having sex with him, as in to say, and right at the very beginning, that nothing is sacred. i mean, in watching jane, we're left thinking that his last refuge for good lays in his wife and daughter, but those first two episodes quickly dispatch that notion.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 9:35:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 9:32:13 AM, badger wrote:
interesting also that the first two cases we see jane on are with regard to adultery and a dude who murdered his daughter because she stopped having sex with him, as in to say, and right at the very beginning, that nothing is sacred. i mean, in watching jane, we're left thinking that his last refuge for good lays in his wife and daughter, but those first two episodes quickly dispatch that notion.

or they cast considerable doubt on that notion anyway.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2012 9:38:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
nope, this show does not at all look thrown together. you're missing the bigger picture, bluesteel. and even if heller does end the show stupidly, just to comply, the evidence is there to show he's doing just that.
signature
BerGaur
Posts: 5
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2012 2:48:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just watched the newest one. If you pay attention to what Jane is saying in the beginning of the show, and carefully look at the list at the end of the episode, he seems to be focussing on Dean Harken. He was the head of security at the place that studied super diseases. Lets keep the skepticism going... Any thoughts on what this episode is providing for us?