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Lincoln the movie

000ike
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11/21/2012 5:38:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyone else see it or planning on seeing it?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Wallstreetatheist
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11/21/2012 6:48:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Of course I am! It'll be an awesome film that portrays Lincoln accurately. Don't you know the Union fought the Civil War to end slavery?

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jat93
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11/21/2012 10:41:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll see it because it seems to be a good movie with amazing actors that really puts you in that historical time period. Plus Spielberg is great and he's been working on this one for a while. Of course the portrayal of Lincoln and the South will be terribly inaccurate. Lincoln will doubtlessly be portrayed as a legendary god-like hero who persevered to free the slaves and reunited us all. Yay, how warm and fuzzy. In reality, Lincoln said repeatedly he didn't give a sh!t about freeing the slaves, would keep slavery forever if it would get the South back into the Union, and even that blacks were so inferior to whites that they could never be truly equal. Of course, he also forever destroyed the whole point of the Declaration of Independence, despite speaking in favor of the right to peaceful secession (aka what the South wanted) earlier in his political career.

So that being said, yeah I'll see the movie, and it'll be awesomely directed and written and acted I imagine, but it's important to keep the actual history of what happened in mind and not be caught up in this whole "Lincoln=God" myth that's been going on forever.
charleslb
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11/21/2012 10:41:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 6:48:56 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Of course I am! It'll be an awesome film that portrays Lincoln accurately. Don't you know the Union fought the Civil War to end slavery?

trollface.jpg

I think that the recent movie in which Lincoln is reimagined along the lines of Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be only slightly more fantastic.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/22/2012 7:22:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:41:11 PM, jat93 wrote:
I'll see it because it seems to be a good movie with amazing actors that really puts you in that historical time period. Plus Spielberg is great and he's been working on this one for a while. Of course the portrayal of Lincoln and the South will be terribly inaccurate. Lincoln will doubtlessly be portrayed as a legendary god-like hero who persevered to free the slaves and reunited us all. Yay, how warm and fuzzy. In reality, Lincoln said repeatedly he didn't give a sh!t about freeing the slaves, would keep slavery forever if it would get the South back into the Union, and even that blacks were so inferior to whites that they could never be truly equal. Of course, he also forever destroyed the whole point of the Declaration of Independence, despite speaking in favor of the right to peaceful secession (aka what the South wanted) earlier in his political career.

So that being said, yeah I'll see the movie, and it'll be awesomely directed and written and acted I imagine, but it's important to keep the actual history of what happened in mind and not be caught up in this whole "Lincoln=God" myth that's been going on forever.

Well there's also a "Lincoln = the devil" myth among Libertarians like yourself that just engages in a counter-revisionist narrative designed to place Lincoln at the bottom upon selective evidence and exaggerated truths. There is a fundamental difference between what presidents are forced to say for the sake of unity and the passage of certain acts, and what the president actually believes and discretely triumphs.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
socialpinko
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11/23/2012 1:42:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:41:56 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/21/2012 6:48:56 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Of course I am! It'll be an awesome film that portrays Lincoln accurately. Don't you know the Union fought the Civil War to end slavery?

trollface.jpg

I think that the recent movie in which Lincoln is reimagined along the lines of Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be only slightly more fantastic.

Hey look young lad Charles and I agree. Fancy that.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/23/2012 8:44:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I saw it. Guarantee it wins a shitload of awards. For sure, Daniel Day-Lewis will be nominated, and Tommy Lee Jones for best supporting actor. The movie was done very well and seemed, for the most part, historically accurate (which surprised me, to be honest with you).
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Danielle
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11/23/2012 8:50:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 7:22:02 AM, 000ike wrote:
Well there's also a "Lincoln = the devil" myth among Libertarians like yourself that just engages in a counter-revisionist narrative designed to place Lincoln at the bottom upon selective evidence and exaggerated truths. There is a fundamental difference between what presidents are forced to say for the sake of unity and the passage of certain acts, and what the president actually believes and discretely triumphs.

I promised my little sister I would take her to see the movie since she has to watch it for school, so I'll be seeing it later on in the afternoon and I'm looking forward to it. My parents saw it and said Daniel Day Lewis did a phenomenal job, as always. While of course I'm no fan of Lincoln (secession ftw), I think you would like this article, ike: http://www.hoover.org...
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/27/2012 10:01:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had won tickets to see an advanced screening of it. I liked it and found it to be pretty accurate. Very little of the movie actually deals with the Civil War directly. It is mainly about the last few months of Lincoln's life and focuses on his efforts to (heh) end slavery through the 13th amendment (specifically its passage through the House of Representatives).
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/28/2012 2:16:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 8:50:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 11/22/2012 7:22:02 AM, 000ike wrote:
Well there's also a "Lincoln = the devil" myth among Libertarians like yourself that just engages in a counter-revisionist narrative designed to place Lincoln at the bottom upon selective evidence and exaggerated truths. There is a fundamental difference between what presidents are forced to say for the sake of unity and the passage of certain acts, and what the president actually believes and discretely triumphs.

I promised my little sister I would take her to see the movie since she has to watch it for school, so I'll be seeing it later on in the afternoon and I'm looking forward to it. My parents saw it and said Daniel Day Lewis did a phenomenal job, as always. While of course I'm no fan of Lincoln (secession ftw), I think you would like this article, ike: http://www.hoover.org...

Again, I would prefer the ludicrous likes of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter to any film that perpetuates the maudlin myth of Lincoln as a tragic martyr of the abolitionist cause (read a little history, folks, he never actually identified as an abolitionist!, he simply was not at all that progressive) and a "great emancipator" (he was never terribly keen on emancipating the South's slave population by decree, he was not that much of an enlightened radical). Mm-hmm, William Lloyd Garrison, an authentic abolitionist, an individual who was a much better example of someone ahead of his time in enlightenment than the ole The Railsplitter, and someone who was not enamored of the myth of The Great Emancipator was not guilty of that much rhetorical overkill when he said that Lincoln "had not a drop of anti-slavery blood in his veins".

No, the man, i.e., the real Lincoln, does not at all deserve to be a hero to African Americans or a symbol to proponents of modern liberation movements. Sorry folks, but there's history, and then there's the mythologized history of our society's "civil religion". Yep, the classic, venerable Lincoln portrayed in Steven Spielberg's latest bit of filmmaking, like the iconic idea of George Washington as the patriarch of his country, or of a Camelotian JFK martyred for his putative idealism, is merely one of the mythic demigods of the American civil religion's rubbishy pantheon. You can choose to worship a false demigod, or to face facts. Mm-hmm, the choice is yours.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/28/2012 1:48:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd just like to add that yes, if you choose to heretically espouse the historical facts and to renounce and apostatize from the secular cultism and patriotic idolatry that centers around venerating pseudo-heroic and pseudo-holy figures such as Lincoln you certainly risk social excommunication from the fellowship of convinced-of-their-own-right-mindedness believers. Well, a radical rejection of the orthodox belief, the common faith of your society in favor of a higher commitment to authentic truth, honesty, and justice will definitely cost you some measure of acceptance, do you have the mental fortitude and moral courage necessary to engage such a thankless commitment and to cope with paying the potentially socially punitive price? Do you?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/28/2012 2:01:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/28/2012 2:16:33 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/23/2012 8:50:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 11/22/2012 7:22:02 AM, 000ike wrote:
Well there's also a "Lincoln = the devil" myth among Libertarians like yourself that just engages in a counter-revisionist narrative designed to place Lincoln at the bottom upon selective evidence and exaggerated truths. There is a fundamental difference between what presidents are forced to say for the sake of unity and the passage of certain acts, and what the president actually believes and discretely triumphs.

I promised my little sister I would take her to see the movie since she has to watch it for school, so I'll be seeing it later on in the afternoon and I'm looking forward to it. My parents saw it and said Daniel Day Lewis did a phenomenal job, as always. While of course I'm no fan of Lincoln (secession ftw), I think you would like this article, ike: http://www.hoover.org...

Again, I would prefer the ludicrous likes of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter to any film that perpetuates the maudlin myth of Lincoln as a tragic martyr of the abolitionist cause (read a little history, folks, he never actually identified as an abolitionist!, he simply was not at all that progressive) and a "great emancipator" (he was never terribly keen on emancipating the South's slave population by decree, he was not that much of an enlightened radical). Mm-hmm, William Lloyd Garrison, an authentic abolitionist, an individual who was a much better example of someone ahead of his time in enlightenment than the ole The Railsplitter, and someone who was not enamored of the myth of The Great Emancipator was not guilty of that much rhetorical overkill when he said that Lincoln "had not a drop of anti-slavery blood in his veins".

No, the man, i.e., the real Lincoln, does not at all deserve to be a hero to African Americans or a symbol to proponents of modern liberation movements. Sorry folks, but there's history, and then there's the mythologized history of our society's "civil religion". Yep, the classic, venerable Lincoln portrayed in Steven Spielberg's latest bit of filmmaking, like the iconic idea of George Washington as the patriarch of his country, or of a Camelotian JFK martyred for his putative idealism, is merely one of the mythic demigods of the American civil religion's rubbishy pantheon. You can choose to worship a false demigod, or to face facts. Mm-hmm, the choice is yours.



Have you seen the movie? Because the movie doesn't portray him "as a tragic martyr of the abolitionist cause." As you say: "he never actually identified as an abolitionist!, he simply was not at all that progressive) and a "great emancipator" (he was never terribly keen on emancipating the South's slave population by decree, he was not that much of an enlightened radical" - and that's how the movie portrays him.

He is pit against the Radical republicans, namely Thaddeus Stevens (played by Tommy Lee Jones), in trying to get their support (by asking him to tone down his abolitionist rhetoric). He is deliberately shown as not holding their "radical" views regarding full enfranchisement. In fact, he explicitly states that he has no fing clue what the future will hold regarding the impact of the 13th amendment.

The movie is pretty much mainly about passing the 13th amendment through the House. So the only real objection here is whether or not Lincoln did actually put some effort into doing that.

Regarding your allusion to the Emancipation Proclamation, it is talked about in the movie, but only really in he sense of his explanation of why it was in his power to do so. At no point in the movie is he portrayed as some great and noble abolitionist.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/29/2012 12:42:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/28/2012 2:01:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/28/2012 2:16:33 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/23/2012 8:50:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 11/22/2012 7:22:02 AM, 000ike wrote:
Well there's also a "Lincoln = the devil" myth among Libertarians like yourself that just engages in a counter-revisionist narrative designed to place Lincoln at the bottom upon selective evidence and exaggerated truths. There is a fundamental difference between what presidents are forced to say for the sake of unity and the passage of certain acts, and what the president actually believes and discretely triumphs.

I promised my little sister I would take her to see the movie since she has to watch it for school, so I'll be seeing it later on in the afternoon and I'm looking forward to it. My parents saw it and said Daniel Day Lewis did a phenomenal job, as always. While of course I'm no fan of Lincoln (secession ftw), I think you would like this article, ike: http://www.hoover.org...

Again, I would prefer the ludicrous likes of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter to any film that perpetuates the maudlin myth of Lincoln as a tragic martyr of the abolitionist cause (read a little history, folks, he never actually identified as an abolitionist!, he simply was not at all that progressive) and a "great emancipator" (he was never terribly keen on emancipating the South's slave population by decree, he was not that much of an enlightened radical). Mm-hmm, William Lloyd Garrison, an authentic abolitionist, an individual who was a much better example of someone ahead of his time in enlightenment than the ole The Railsplitter, and someone who was not enamored of the myth of The Great Emancipator was not guilty of that much rhetorical overkill when he said that Lincoln "had not a drop of anti-slavery blood in his veins".

No, the man, i.e., the real Lincoln, does not at all deserve to be a hero to African Americans or a symbol to proponents of modern liberation movements. Sorry folks, but there's history, and then there's the mythologized history of our society's "civil religion". Yep, the classic, venerable Lincoln portrayed in Steven Spielberg's latest bit of filmmaking, like the iconic idea of George Washington as the patriarch of his country, or of a Camelotian JFK martyred for his putative idealism, is merely one of the mythic demigods of the American civil religion's rubbishy pantheon. You can choose to worship a false demigod, or to face facts. Mm-hmm, the choice is yours.



Have you seen the movie? Because the movie doesn't portray him "as a tragic martyr of the abolitionist cause." As you say: "he never actually identified as an abolitionist!, he simply was not at all that progressive) and a "great emancipator" (he was never terribly keen on emancipating the South's slave population by decree, he was not that much of an enlightened radical" - and that's how the movie portrays him.

He is pit against the Radical republicans, namely Thaddeus Stevens (played by Tommy Lee Jones), in trying to get their support (by asking him to tone down his abolitionist rhetoric). He is deliberately shown as not holding their "radical" views regarding full enfranchisement. In fact, he explicitly states that he has no fing clue what the future will hold regarding the impact of the 13th amendment.

The movie is pretty much mainly about passing the 13th amendment through the House. So the only real objection here is whether or not Lincoln did actually put some effort into doing that.

Regarding your allusion to the Emancipation Proclamation, it is talked about in the movie, but only really in he sense of his explanation of why it was in his power to do so. At no point in the movie is he portrayed as some great and noble abolitionist.

Thank you for this bit of information. It sounds like this particular movie commendably goes in for some measure of historical accuracy, but I still doubt that it approaches being sufficiently iconoclastic, shall we say.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/29/2012 11:03:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's hard to tell. He is shown to be at adds to almost everyone he interacts with. His only real ally shown is Seward (and the lower level White House aides). Certainly portrayed as a "good" guy, albeit a bit weird and prone to story telling.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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12/2/2012 2:16:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This movie is perfect.

Spielberg and Day Lewis and whoever wrote the dialogue portrayed Lincoln perfectly. I do not think he portrayed him as a good or a bad guy - just as Spielberg honestly sees him, in all his complexity and torment and stunning political prowess. The actors were phenomenal all around, really just put their hearts and souls into it. The dialogue was witty, fast paced, realistic, and treated the audience as if they were smart enough to follow it all. It really was a grand exhibition of the power struggles of politics. And you really feel like you are in the mid-1800s, and all the sides and opinions of various issues are well represented in my humble opinion.

Tommy Lee Jones is epic as well.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/2/2012 2:25:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/2/2012 2:21:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that Lincoln is doing well in theaters.

This has not always been the case.

*rimshot*
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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12/2/2012 3:04:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Saw it. I was bored to tears. Sure Danial Day-Lewis did a good job in acting, but it was one of those movies you could've fallen asleep at the very start, woken up five minutes from the end and still been able to explain everything that happened that you missed. I hoped it would've gone more in-depth into the Civil War (me being a slight military-buff), but alas.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/2/2012 3:08:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/2/2012 3:04:07 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Saw it. I was bored to tears. Sure Danial Day-Lewis did a good job in acting, but it was one of those movies you could've fallen asleep at the very start, woken up five minutes from the end and still been able to explain everything that happened that you missed. I hoped it would've gone more in-depth into the Civil War (me being a slight military-buff), but alas.

This. Though, I liked the congress scenes and the dramatic final vote on the 13th amendment,...except for the fact that the man that played the senator from Ohio was little too dramatic. The part that annoyed me the most is how they didn't show lincoln getting shot or have any decent sad music playing in the opera house as it happened.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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12/2/2012 10:25:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 8:44:22 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I saw it. Guarantee it wins a shitload of awards. For sure, Daniel Day-Lewis will be nominated, and Tommy Lee Jones for best supporting actor. The movie was done very well and seemed, for the most part, historically accurate (which surprised me, to be honest with you).

+1 to everything here. It was really a great movie when I saw it and its a shame its not doing as well in the box office as it deserves.

I still wish Liam neeson didnt drop out as lincoln..... nothing against Daniel Day Lewis
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jat93
Posts: 1,440
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12/3/2012 7:24:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/2/2012 2:21:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that Lincoln is doing well in theaters.

This has not always been the case.

I was trying to think of some witty one liner about Lincoln being shot on location but nothing came to mind, so... and ya, Lincoln is definitely doing better in theaters than he was 150 years ago.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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12/3/2012 7:25:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/2/2012 2:25:50 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/2/2012 2:21:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that Lincoln is doing well in theaters.

This has not always been the case.

*rimshot*
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
popculturepooka
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12/12/2012 6:39:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:41:11 PM, jat93 wrote:
I'll see it because it seems to be a good movie with amazing actors that really puts you in that historical time period. Plus Spielberg is great and he's been working on this one for a while. Of course the portrayal of Lincoln and the South will be terribly inaccurate. Lincoln will doubtlessly be portrayed as a legendary god-like hero who persevered to free the slaves and reunited us all. Yay, how warm and fuzzy. In reality, Lincoln said repeatedly he didn't give a sh!t about freeing the slaves, would keep slavery forever if it would get the South back into the Union, and even that blacks were so inferior to whites that they could never be truly equal. Of course, he also forever destroyed the whole point of the Declaration of Independence, despite speaking in favor of the right to peaceful secession (aka what the South wanted) earlier in his political career.

So that being said, yeah I'll see the movie, and it'll be awesomely directed and written and acted I imagine, but it's important to keep the actual history of what happened in mind and not be caught up in this whole "Lincoln=God" myth that's been going on forever.

http://jacobinmag.com...

....yup.
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popculturepooka
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12/12/2012 6:40:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Although, I did like how it gave me more impetus to read up on Thaddeus Stevens.
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bossyburrito
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1/13/2013 6:32:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2012 3:04:07 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Saw it. I was bored to tears. Sure Danial Day-Lewis did a good job in acting, but it was one of those movies you could've fallen asleep at the very start, woken up five minutes from the end and still been able to explain everything that happened that you missed. I hoped it would've gone more in-depth into the Civil War (me being a slight military-buff), but alas.

I just saw it. I fell asleep during the middle, but it was just because I was already tired. The movie as a whole felt really gripping to me.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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1/13/2013 6:33:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, the debate scenes had me in tears.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush