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Death Battle 25: Goku versus Superman

Kinesis
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1/11/2013 7:18:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It doesn't solve the issue completely, because Goku can still win by instant transmission to somewhere without a yellow/blue sun.

Probably the best analysis of what would go down possible, though.

/this debate. Superman wins.
Franz_Reynard
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1/12/2013 1:58:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wow, this just ate up four hours out of nowhere.

Talk about a sneak attack thread. Should come with a warning about previous responsibilities and such.
tvellalott
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1/14/2013 3:12:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 1:58:06 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
Wow, this just ate up four hours out of nowhere.

Talk about a sneak attack thread. Should come with a warning about previous responsibilities and such.

Lol.
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Maikuru
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1/14/2013 9:55:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I plan to watch this tonight and throw a geek fit, regardless of what they decide.
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SarcasticIndeed
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1/16/2013 6:58:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
May spoil

Eh, I'd never give the Power Pole to Goku or let him turn SSJ4, but that Superman is the definition of a Gary Stu. Meh, I guess the outcome was predictable. I now wonder who would win, Vegetto or Superman.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
tvellalott
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1/16/2013 7:28:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 6:58:34 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
May spoil

Eh, I'd never give the Power Pole to Goku or let him turn SSJ4, but that Superman is the definition of a Gary Stu. Meh, I guess the outcome was predictable. I now wonder who would win, Vegetto or Superman.

I think, given the numbers they calculated regarding strength, speed and durability, that Superman would still win.
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SarcasticIndeed
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1/16/2013 7:40:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 7:28:49 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 1/16/2013 6:58:34 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
May spoil

Eh, I'd never give the Power Pole to Goku or let him turn SSJ4, but that Superman is the definition of a Gary Stu. Meh, I guess the outcome was predictable. I now wonder who would win, Vegetto or Superman.

I think, given the numbers they calculated regarding strength, speed and durability, that Superman would still win.

Well, we could go by feats. I believe Kid Buu destroyed a galaxy, so if Vegetto could beat Kid Buu, he could easily destroy galaxies. And Superman was only seen throwing around Supernova punches, which are nothing compared to the energy of a whole galaxy.
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Franz_Reynard
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1/16/2013 9:19:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 7:40:57 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 1/16/2013 7:28:49 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 1/16/2013 6:58:34 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
May spoil

Eh, I'd never give the Power Pole to Goku or let him turn SSJ4, but that Superman is the definition of a Gary Stu. Meh, I guess the outcome was predictable. I now wonder who would win, Vegetto or Superman.

I think, given the numbers they calculated regarding strength, speed and durability, that Superman would still win.

Well, we could go by feats. I believe Kid Buu destroyed a galaxy, so if Vegetto could beat Kid Buu, he could easily destroy galaxies. And Superman was only seen throwing around Supernova punches, which are nothing compared to the energy of a whole galaxy.

No no -- the comparison brought them both to their maximum capacity before declaring a winner. So, not only did Goku turn SS4 without fusing with Vegeta and all that, but Goku also make the grave mistake of punching Superman into the sun. He then charged up with essentially immeasurable energy and hit Goku hard enough to decimate him.

Makes sense.
Maikuru
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1/16/2013 8:07:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I love Superman but the geek in me is on the fence about this result. I agree that Superman is stronger and more durable but I keep thinking about the actual combat. Supes is a brawler and when he needs an edge in a fight, he generally turns to creative power combinations and super speed. In fact, he learned those Kryptonian martial arts specifically because he kept getting beat up by people who were as powerful as him but more skilled combatants.

What's he going to do against someone who is not only used to fighting at super speed with various powers thrown in, but also more skilled at fighting than anyone he's ever met? I think the answer is get knocked out lol.
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Maikuru
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1/16/2013 8:16:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A lot of that is devil's advocate, though, but I really don't know who would win. I obviously don't believe Superman would randomly be shot into the sun, but he did purposely fly into the sun before when getting his @ss whopped by the Avengers in the crossover. Flying into the sun doesn't suddenly make him a better fighter, though, and Goku has defeated people who were faster, stronger, and better fighters before. I'm not sure Superman ever has. I just don't know...
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Maikuru
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1/16/2013 9:12:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm leaning more towards Goku now because I'm continuing this conversation in my head.

I mean, does anyone doubt that if Batman had Superman's powers, he'd kick Superman's @ss in two seconds? What about Captain America or Black Panther or Iron Fist or Daredevil? If any of these characters had Superman-level strength and speed, they would literally kill Superman in under a minute because Superman isn't used to fighting someone with actual combat knowledge. Considering Goku is supposed to be the greatest martial artist in his universe, I could easily imagine him handling Superman before he knew what was happening.
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RyuuKyuzo
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1/16/2013 10:34:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 9:12:12 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm leaning more towards Goku now because I'm continuing this conversation in my head.

I mean, does anyone doubt that if Batman had Superman's powers, he'd kick Superman's @ss in two seconds? What about Captain America or Black Panther or Iron Fist or Daredevil? If any of these characters had Superman-level strength and speed, they would literally kill Superman in under a minute because Superman isn't used to fighting someone with actual combat knowledge. Considering Goku is supposed to be the greatest martial artist in his universe, I could easily imagine him handling Superman before he knew what was happening.

One more thing to consider -- They purposefully limited themselves to Cannon arguments. If one where to argue from "series logic", we'd have to take into account the high probability of Goku going SSJ5 in response to Superman's higher power level. -- Which would make him about 25x stronger than his SSJ4 (assuming the power multipliers increase along the pattern they gave).

This would change the stats to:

Stat...............Goku...............Superman
Str.............4,000,000.........6,600,000,000,000,000,000 (tons)
Spd........62,500,000,000....9,400,000,000 (km/h)
Drb........867(21 zeros).......10(27 zeros) (megatons)

As we can see, Superman is still strong enough snap Goku like a toothpick and is still definitively more durable, but now Goku is almost 7x faster than Superman, which means Superman might be completely incapable of hitting Goku anyway.

Since Goku can't hurt Superman and Superman can't hit Goku, we have a draw -- but this argument only works if we agree that it's likely for Goku to transform into SSJ5 if confronted by superman -- which is exactly what would happen if we go by Dragon Ball Z logic.

Besides that, Superman probably wouldn't kill Goku (out of choice). If he doesn't kill Goku, Goku will go through zenkai and come back stronger than Superman anyway.
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johnnyboy54
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1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
OberHerr
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1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.
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SarcasticIndeed
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1/17/2013 9:50:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 9:12:12 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm leaning more towards Goku now because I'm continuing this conversation in my head.

I mean, does anyone doubt that if Batman had Superman's powers, he'd kick Superman's @ss in two seconds? What about Captain America or Black Panther or Iron Fist or Daredevil? If any of these characters had Superman-level strength and speed, they would literally kill Superman in under a minute because Superman isn't used to fighting someone with actual combat knowledge. Considering Goku is supposed to be the greatest martial artist in his universe, I could easily imagine him handling Superman before he knew what was happening.

If Superman had the help of a Sun, Goku should have the help of King Kai, which would have noticed Superman's power source and let Goku IT himself and Supes to a place without a yellow sun. And with Superman getting less and less durable, Goku would eventually be able to fight him off, provided he didn't lose his breath. Sending him into the sun was definitely a great mistake, but why did they leave such advantageous outcomes to Superman. I don't think he can even charge in the sun that fast.

Another problem I have is speed. To get to light speed, superman has to have quite some time to reach it. I don't think his punches really break the speed of light or come any close to it, whereas Goku's punches are simply super-fast. I don't think Superman could dodge a thousand punches aiming at him at like, light speed. Sure, they wouldn't do a lot of damage, but continuous exposure should weaken him, a lot.
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johnnyboy54
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1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Maikuru
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1/17/2013 7:16:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
They both constantly phone it in, so this fight would probably last forever. It's like the old joke, why are Flash comics longer than 3 panels? Either one of these guys could feasibly beat the other in 10 seconds if they so chose.
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Maikuru
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1/17/2013 7:20:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.

Ah, unexpected spoiler! I just got Mass Effect 1 for Christmas and now I'll be playing the next 3 games in constant fear.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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johnnyboy54
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1/18/2013 11:46:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 7:20:08 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.

Ah, unexpected spoiler! I just got Mass Effect 1 for Christmas and now I'll be playing the next 3 games in constant fear.

Sorry about the spoilers.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/19/2013 1:25:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 11:46:10 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:20:08 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.

Ah, unexpected spoiler! I just got Mass Effect 1 for Christmas and now I'll be playing the next 3 games in constant fear.

Sorry about the spoilers.

Not really a big spoiler at all. You'll see though. Even though I haven't played an of the ME, I know the storyline pretty well, and the endings all bug me. :( I wish they had given an ending with more.....difference in them. The "new" ending just fixed the gaping plot holes. Didn't address the biggest issue, which is while the different endings technically have different outcomes, YOU don't see any difference besides the palette swap.

/rant

So, anyways, assuming we are using that ending, MC can still effortlessly lift, with his armor, a Warthog, which is 3.25 tons approximately.

And thats from the books, not the game. If we take the game into account then that means he can lift 225 tons(a Elephant), without even getting winded, but we're assuming that's just game play mechanics.

And, take into the fact that he's been trained since six, may or may not have Cortana(or some AI), and his reflexes are something like 0.02 seconds.

Shepard, even if we assume he is partly machine now, is still basically a fit middle aged man. He's experienced, but he probably doesn't even have half the experience MC does, depending on which of those "origin" choices you make.

Masterchief has something like 46 years of experience under his belt, PLUS insane reflexes, PLUS his armor, PLUS being able to lift, I would assume, at least four tons. Couple that with a knife in CQC, and Shepard is just doomed.

Now once we get into ranged fighting, that we're the tech of the armors and weaponry shows.
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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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1/19/2013 2:00:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 1:25:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:46:10 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:20:08 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.

Ah, unexpected spoiler! I just got Mass Effect 1 for Christmas and now I'll be playing the next 3 games in constant fear.

Sorry about the spoilers.

Not really a big spoiler at all. You'll see though. Even though I haven't played an of the ME, I know the storyline pretty well, and the endings all bug me. :( I wish they had given an ending with more.....difference in them. The "new" ending just fixed the gaping plot holes. Didn't address the biggest issue, which is while the different endings technically have different outcomes, YOU don't see any difference besides the palette swap.

/rant

So, anyways, assuming we are using that ending, MC can still effortlessly lift, with his armor, a Warthog, which is 3.25 tons approximately.

And thats from the books, not the game. If we take the game into account then that means he can lift 225 tons(a Elephant), without even getting winded, but we're assuming that's just game play mechanics.

And, take into the fact that he's been trained since six, may or may not have Cortana(or some AI), and his reflexes are something like 0.02 seconds.

Shepard, even if we assume he is partly machine now, is still basically a fit middle aged man. He's experienced, but he probably doesn't even have half the experience MC does, depending on which of those "origin" choices you make.

Masterchief has something like 46 years of experience under his belt, PLUS insane reflexes, PLUS his armor, PLUS being able to lift, I would assume, at least four tons. Couple that with a knife in CQC, and Shepard is just doomed.

Now once we get into ranged fighting, that we're the tech of the armors and weaponry shows.

I die way more often as Shepard than as Masterchief, so clearly MC is superior. That's just science.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 2:07:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 2:00:06 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/19/2013 1:25:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:46:10 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:20:08 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 5:01:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:45:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/17/2013 1:19:44 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Hope they do Master Chief vs Commander Shepard. Then Oberherr can finally shut up about it.

What?

I thought we agreed that non-biotics Shepard would lose, but biotics Shepard would win. In Mid-range that is.

Close-quarters fighting, MC would probably win, simple because he's so much more skilled, strong, and fast. And since Halo 4 came out, that knife is added. Shepard just isn't fast or strong enough, not to mention MC has been doing this for something like 40-50 years, not including Cryo time, since he was 6.

Long-range I believe it came down to who shot first, but I would give the edge to Shepard, simple because his sniper rifles seems more deadly.

Oh I forgot we did have this discussion.

Is Masterchief really that much stronger though? Remember, Shepard is a cyborg now. And I think Mass Effect's shotguns more more powerful.

Ah, unexpected spoiler! I just got Mass Effect 1 for Christmas and now I'll be playing the next 3 games in constant fear.

Sorry about the spoilers.

Not really a big spoiler at all. You'll see though. Even though I haven't played an of the ME, I know the storyline pretty well, and the endings all bug me. :( I wish they had given an ending with more.....difference in them. The "new" ending just fixed the gaping plot holes. Didn't address the biggest issue, which is while the different endings technically have different outcomes, YOU don't see any difference besides the palette swap.

/rant

So, anyways, assuming we are using that ending, MC can still effortlessly lift, with his armor, a Warthog, which is 3.25 tons approximately.

And thats from the books, not the game. If we take the game into account then that means he can lift 225 tons(a Elephant), without even getting winded, but we're assuming that's just game play mechanics.

And, take into the fact that he's been trained since six, may or may not have Cortana(or some AI), and his reflexes are something like 0.02 seconds.

Shepard, even if we assume he is partly machine now, is still basically a fit middle aged man. He's experienced, but he probably doesn't even have half the experience MC does, depending on which of those "origin" choices you make.

Masterchief has something like 46 years of experience under his belt, PLUS insane reflexes, PLUS his armor, PLUS being able to lift, I would assume, at least four tons. Couple that with a knife in CQC, and Shepard is just doomed.

Now once we get into ranged fighting, that we're the tech of the armors and weaponry shows.

I die way more often as Shepard than as Masterchief, so clearly MC is superior. That's just science.

I'll definitely use that argument the next chance I get.
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RyuuKyuzo
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3/4/2013 7:29:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The latest DBZ movie is about to completely fvck up this death-battle's validity.

http://dragonball.wikia.com...
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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3/4/2013 10:30:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 7:29:48 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
The latest DBZ movie is about to completely fvck up this death-battle's validity.

http://dragonball.wikia.com...

HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?
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OberHerr
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3/4/2013 11:08:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 7:29:48 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
The latest DBZ movie is about to completely fvck up this death-battle's validity.

http://dragonball.wikia.com...

Da faq......

Does everything is DBZ just keep getting more ridiculously OP?!
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Buddamoose
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3/4/2013 11:10:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Goku wins hands down
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