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wrichcirw
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5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Obviously, a spoilers warning to lead off:

** This thread will contain massive spoilers about the HBO television series "Game of Thrones". If you do not wish to read about the series before watching it, then please do not read this thread. **

This is for the TV series only, I haven't read the books nor do I intend to do so. I've read plenty of analysis comparing the two genres and consider that to be enough to satisfy my curiosity.

I have a debate in the challenge period "Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen" and realized that I'd be up for several debates on this series, as nearly every aspect of the show is debatable due to its characters all being rather morally ambiguous.

So, this thread is meant to get a list of debatable resolutions. I will lead with a couple I would not mind debating:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen
2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love
3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street
4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape
5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King
6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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5/15/2014 3:58:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I will add one more:

7) Robert Baratheon was a Wise King
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
phantom
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5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen

Don't recall, don't really care.

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

What do you mean?

3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street

They've barely talked about it in the show.

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

Works better in what regard? I would argue that they shouldn't have added it, but I would have to reference the books for the fact that George Martin never included it.

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

If you're Pro, I would take this, unless something more interesting comes up.

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

I would easily take Pro...Again, unless something more intriguing comes up. I don't see how you could win though. George Martin is a self acclaimed feminist and Brienne illustrates it more than other characters I think.

7) Robert Baratheon was a Wise King

I would take Con on this but I'm more interested in the other topics, partially because most of his reign isn't talked about in the show.

Some that I can think of off the top of my head:

(In order of preference

1) Jaime is an evil person (I'd be Con) I'd prefer the books for this one or the stipulation that the (possible) rape never happened since it didn't happen in the books and never should have been added to the show. That's my preference, but if not, I'm still fine with doing it once season 4 is over (just so new material doesn't come up during the debate).

2) R + L = J is more plausible than [name any alternative]. Slight spoilers if you haven't read the books.

3) Petyr Baelish is more likely to take the throne than Stannis.

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

I'd prefer debating the books to the show, but I'll stick to the show if necessary. Number 2, however, can't really be debated without the books.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/19/2014 1:05:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen

Don't recall, don't really care.

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

What do you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The idea is that people would look at someone like Joffrey and think he's a product of hate. I would argue he was not.

Unconditional love is also a Christian concept as described in the link. I thought it would be ironic to point out that Joffrey was the result of adherence to a very key element of a Christian upbringing.

3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street

They've barely talked about it in the show.

I could be thinking too much about analysis from the books, but I think the show makes enough references to make this arguable.

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

Works better in what regard? I would argue that they shouldn't have added it, but I would have to reference the books for the fact that George Martin never included it.

It works better as a plot device for how they've crafted the TV series - it better explains character motivations. I'm not sure how the book equivalents proceed from the Sept scene, but IMHO in the TV series it works better this way.

It wouldn't be a comparative between the book and the TV series, but rather a comparative between it being a rape as opposed to not being a rape.

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

If you're Pro, I would take this, unless something more interesting comes up.

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

I would easily take Pro...Again, unless something more intriguing comes up. I don't see how you could win though. George Martin is a self acclaimed feminist and Brienne illustrates it more than other characters I think.

This would probably hinge on exactly what it means to be a "feminist icon", which I'd probably associate much more with Daenerys, especially after the latest episode. I imagine it's different in the books, but the way I'd argue this is that in the TV series Brienne's more a poster child for the failures of feminism.

lol, I tried looking up something agreeable, and found that this phrase is apparently extremely nebulous and highly debatable:

http://www.theguardian.com...

I'd stick with the following lines to frame "feminist icon":

"Women who complain that Margaret Thatcher was not a feminist because she didn't help other women or openly acknowledge her debt to feminism have a point, but they are also missing something vital. She normalised female success. She showed that although female power and masculine power may have different languages, different metaphors, different gestures, different traditions, different ways of being glamorous or nasty, they are equally strong, equally valid " No one can ever question whether women are capable of single-minded vigour, of efficient leadership, after Margeret Thatcher. She is the great unsung heroine of British feminism.""

"Thatcher in Downing Street sent out a straightforward message to women that anything was possible."

7) Robert Baratheon was a Wise King

I would take Con on this but I'm more interested in the other topics, partially because most of his reign isn't talked about in the show.

Some that I can think of off the top of my head:

(In order of preference

1) Jaime is an evil person (I'd be Con) I'd prefer the books for this one or the stipulation that the (possible) rape never happened since it didn't happen in the books and never should have been added to the show. That's my preference, but if not, I'm still fine with doing it once season 4 is over (just so new material doesn't come up during the debate).

lol hmm...I'm a big Jaime fan, so this would be hard for me to take PRO on. Doable I suppose, but as you said, we'd have to wait a month to debate this.

2) R + L = J is more plausible than [name any alternative]. Slight spoilers if you haven't read the books.

I agree, so I couldn't debate this.

3) Petyr Baelish is more likely to take the throne than Stannis.

Again, agree, undebatable. I can't even follow the Stannis plot in the TV series anymore. What happened to them going off to the North to fight the white walkers? And why would they do that to begin with??

I think by the end of the season, something may change dramatically in the Stannis plot to resolve all of this, because right now IMHO it simply doesn't make any sense. If Stannis alone went to the North he'd have to leave Dragonstone to whomever wanted to take it, be at ends with the Boltons and Greyjoys instead of the Lannisters, and would weaken his forces in an effort that had nothing to do with his raison d'etre, taking his rightful position as heir to the Iron Throne. If I was an Iron Bank rep and heard about this, I'd consider it to be a mad quest totally irrelevant to the ostensible reasons why Stannis sought his loan with me.

No matter how cold, calculating, and despicable Petyr may be, he certainly keeps his eye on the ball.

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

At first I thought this was undebatable...but I think I can debate this. In fact, I think I would prefer this one out of our combined list.

I'd prefer debating the books to the show, but I'll stick to the show if necessary. Number 2, however, can't really be debated without the books.

Sorry, I simply haven't read the books.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/19/2014 1:10:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

Just to whittle down the list, it seems we're looking at the following:

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

...with the underlined being the most likely. Do you agree?

I'd debate either or both now if you'd like - I'll take CON on both of them. IMHO they both look to be very interesting debates.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Mikal
Posts: 11,271
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5/19/2014 3:28:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Obviously, a spoilers warning to lead off:

** This thread will contain massive spoilers about the HBO television series "Game of Thrones". If you do not wish to read about the series before watching it, then please do not read this thread. **

This is for the TV series only, I haven't read the books nor do I intend to do so. I've read plenty of analysis comparing the two genres and consider that to be enough to satisfy my curiosity.

I have a debate in the challenge period "Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen" and realized that I'd be up for several debates on this series, as nearly every aspect of the show is debatable due to its characters all being rather morally ambiguous.

So, this thread is meant to get a list of debatable resolutions. I will lead with a couple I would not mind debating:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen
2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love
3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street
4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape
5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King
6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

pro or con on the joffrey position
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/19/2014 8:02:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 3:28:44 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Obviously, a spoilers warning to lead off:

** This thread will contain massive spoilers about the HBO television series "Game of Thrones". If you do not wish to read about the series before watching it, then please do not read this thread. **

This is for the TV series only, I haven't read the books nor do I intend to do so. I've read plenty of analysis comparing the two genres and consider that to be enough to satisfy my curiosity.

I have a debate in the challenge period "Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen" and realized that I'd be up for several debates on this series, as nearly every aspect of the show is debatable due to its characters all being rather morally ambiguous.

So, this thread is meant to get a list of debatable resolutions. I will lead with a couple I would not mind debating:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen
2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love
3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street
4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape
5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King
6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

pro or con on the joffrey position

Which one?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Mikal
Posts: 11,271
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5/19/2014 8:28:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 8:02:14 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/19/2014 3:28:44 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Obviously, a spoilers warning to lead off:

** This thread will contain massive spoilers about the HBO television series "Game of Thrones". If you do not wish to read about the series before watching it, then please do not read this thread. **

This is for the TV series only, I haven't read the books nor do I intend to do so. I've read plenty of analysis comparing the two genres and consider that to be enough to satisfy my curiosity.

I have a debate in the challenge period "Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen" and realized that I'd be up for several debates on this series, as nearly every aspect of the show is debatable due to its characters all being rather morally ambiguous.

So, this thread is meant to get a list of debatable resolutions. I will lead with a couple I would not mind debating:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen
2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love
3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street
4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape
5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King
6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

pro or con on the joffrey position

Which one?

he would become a good king
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/19/2014 11:49:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 1:05:03 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

1) Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen

Don't recall, don't really care.

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

What do you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The idea is that people would look at someone like Joffrey and think he's a product of hate. I would argue he was not.

I don't see anything to derive an argument for him being a product of hate...More like because he's a spoiled brat with messed up genes and too much power.

Unconditional love is also a Christian concept as described in the link. I thought it would be ironic to point out that Joffrey was the result of adherence to a very key element of a Christian upbringing.

3) The Iron Bank of Braavos is Synonymous with Wall Street

They've barely talked about it in the show.

I could be thinking too much about analysis from the books, but I think the show makes enough references to make this arguable.

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

Works better in what regard? I would argue that they shouldn't have added it, but I would have to reference the books for the fact that George Martin never included it.

It works better as a plot device for how they've crafted the TV series - it better explains character motivations. I'm not sure how the book equivalents proceed from the Sept scene, but IMHO in the TV series it works better this way.

It wouldn't be a comparative between the book and the TV series, but rather a comparative between it being a rape as opposed to not being a rape.

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

If you're Pro, I would take this, unless something more interesting comes up.

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

I would easily take Pro...Again, unless something more intriguing comes up. I don't see how you could win though. George Martin is a self acclaimed feminist and Brienne illustrates it more than other characters I think.

This would probably hinge on exactly what it means to be a "feminist icon", which I'd probably associate much more with Daenerys, especially after the latest episode. I imagine it's different in the books, but the way I'd argue this is that in the TV series Brienne's more a poster child for the failures of feminism.

lol, I tried looking up something agreeable, and found that this phrase is apparently extremely nebulous and highly debatable:

http://www.theguardian.com...

I'd stick with the following lines to frame "feminist icon":

"Women who complain that Margaret Thatcher was not a feminist because she didn't help other women or openly acknowledge her debt to feminism have a point, but they are also missing something vital. She normalised female success. She showed that although female power and masculine power may have different languages, different metaphors, different gestures, different traditions, different ways of being glamorous or nasty, they are equally strong, equally valid " No one can ever question whether women are capable of single-minded vigour, of efficient leadership, after Margeret Thatcher. She is the great unsung heroine of British feminism.""

"Thatcher in Downing Street sent out a straightforward message to women that anything was possible."

I see where you're going, but I'll leave it for the debate if we do it.


7) Robert Baratheon was a Wise King

I would take Con on this but I'm more interested in the other topics, partially because most of his reign isn't talked about in the show.

Some that I can think of off the top of my head:

(In order of preference

1) Jaime is an evil person (I'd be Con) I'd prefer the books for this one or the stipulation that the (possible) rape never happened since it didn't happen in the books and never should have been added to the show. That's my preference, but if not, I'm still fine with doing it once season 4 is over (just so new material doesn't come up during the debate).

lol hmm...I'm a big Jaime fan, so this would be hard for me to take PRO on. Doable I suppose, but as you said, we'd have to wait a month to debate this.

2) R + L = J is more plausible than [name any alternative]. Slight spoilers if you haven't read the books.

I agree, so I couldn't debate this.

3) Petyr Baelish is more likely to take the throne than Stannis.

Again, agree, undebatable.

I don't think it's undebatable. Actually, it's quite contentious. Baelish has the serious disadvantage of having basically no legitimate claim to the throne whatsoever. He's low born, why would anyone rally to him? He's devious and a mad genius, but he has inherent disadvantages.

I can't even follow the Stannis plot in the TV series anymore. What happened to them going off to the North to fight the white walkers? And why would they do that to begin with??

Since I've read the books, I'll only answer the last question--because he's the only one who can stop an impending apocalypse of course.

I think by the end of the season, something may change dramatically in the Stannis plot to resolve all of this, because right now IMHO it simply doesn't make any sense. If Stannis alone went to the North he'd have to leave Dragonstone to whomever wanted to take it, be at ends with the Boltons and Greyjoys instead of the Lannisters, and would weaken his forces in an effort that had nothing to do with his raison d'etre, taking his rightful position as heir to the Iron Throne. If I was an Iron Bank rep and heard about this, I'd consider it to be a mad quest totally irrelevant to the ostensible reasons why Stannis sought his loan with me.

Since I've read the books, I won't comment.


No matter how cold, calculating, and despicable Petyr may be, he certainly keeps his eye on the ball.

I don't find Petyr despicable at all. Maybe that's another possible debate topic.


4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

At first I thought this was undebatable...but I think I can debate this. In fact, I think I would prefer this one out of our combined list.

At least it would be pretty easy to do.


I'd prefer debating the books to the show, but I'll stick to the show if necessary. Number 2, however, can't really be debated without the books.

Sorry, I simply haven't read the books.

Too bad.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/19/2014 11:50:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 1:10:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:


Just to whittle down the list, it seems we're looking at the following:

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

...with the underlined being the most likely. Do you agree?

I'd debate either or both now if you'd like - I'll take CON on both of them. IMHO they both look to be very interesting debates.

I'm leaning more towards the Jaime/Mad King one just because it would be pretty straightforward, but I would also be willing to do Brienne being a feminist icon and Joffrey becoming a good king. Whichever you're most comfortable with, though if we do the Brienne one, I think we should wait till the end of the season.

I may set up some debate challenges for the topics I most want to do, but if they're not picked up, we can proceed with a topic.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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5/19/2014 11:50:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 8:28:27 AM, Mikal wrote:

Have you read the books?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/20/2014 3:33:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 11:49:50 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2014 1:05:03 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

What do you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The idea is that people would look at someone like Joffrey and think he's a product of hate. I would argue he was not.

I don't see anything to derive an argument for him being a product of hate...More like because he's a spoiled brat with messed up genes and too much power.

...besides him being hateful? =)

Unconditional love is also a Christian concept as described in the link. I thought it would be ironic to point out that Joffrey was the result of adherence to a very key element of a Christian upbringing.

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

If you're Pro, I would take this, unless something more interesting comes up.

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon (I would take the extreme devil's advocate position of CON on this one)

I would easily take Pro...Again, unless something more intriguing comes up. I don't see how you could win though. George Martin is a self acclaimed feminist and Brienne illustrates it more than other characters I think.

This would probably hinge on exactly what it means to be a "feminist icon", which I'd probably associate much more with Daenerys, especially after the latest episode. I imagine it's different in the books, but the way I'd argue this is that in the TV series Brienne's more a poster child for the failures of feminism.

lol, I tried looking up something agreeable, and found that this phrase is apparently extremely nebulous and highly debatable:

http://www.theguardian.com...

I'd stick with the following lines to frame "feminist icon":

"Women who complain that Margaret Thatcher was not a feminist because she didn't help other women or openly acknowledge her debt to feminism have a point, but they are also missing something vital. She normalised female success. She showed that although female power and masculine power may have different languages, different metaphors, different gestures, different traditions, different ways of being glamorous or nasty, they are equally strong, equally valid " No one can ever question whether women are capable of single-minded vigour, of efficient leadership, after Margeret Thatcher. She is the great unsung heroine of British feminism.""

"Thatcher in Downing Street sent out a straightforward message to women that anything was possible."

I see where you're going, but I'll leave it for the debate if we do it.


7) Robert Baratheon was a Wise King

I would take Con on this but I'm more interested in the other topics, partially because most of his reign isn't talked about in the show.

Some that I can think of off the top of my head:

(In order of preference

1) Jaime is an evil person (I'd be Con) I'd prefer the books for this one or the stipulation that the (possible) rape never happened since it didn't happen in the books and never should have been added to the show. That's my preference, but if not, I'm still fine with doing it once season 4 is over (just so new material doesn't come up during the debate).

lol hmm...I'm a big Jaime fan, so this would be hard for me to take PRO on. Doable I suppose, but as you said, we'd have to wait a month to debate this.

2) R + L = J is more plausible than [name any alternative]. Slight spoilers if you haven't read the books.

I agree, so I couldn't debate this.

3) Petyr Baelish is more likely to take the throne than Stannis.

Again, agree, undebatable.

I don't think it's undebatable. Actually, it's quite contentious. Baelish has the serious disadvantage of having basically no legitimate claim to the throne whatsoever. He's low born, why would anyone rally to him? He's devious and a mad genius, but he has inherent disadvantages.

If you're this confident about it, I'd easily take PRO on such a resolution. I'd note that your below comments make it clear that the books are far more cogent in explaining Stannis's motivations.

I can't even follow the Stannis plot in the TV series anymore. What happened to them going off to the North to fight the white walkers? And why would they do that to begin with??

Since I've read the books, I'll only answer the last question--because he's the only one who can stop an impending apocalypse of course.

Just because he can doesn't mean he should though...if he sacrifices his claim to the throne while attempting to do so, how does that give him any motivation?

I mean, if staving off apocalypses was the mark of a true king, then every lord commander of the Night's Watch would be king, yes? =)

I think by the end of the season, something may change dramatically in the Stannis plot to resolve all of this, because right now IMHO it simply doesn't make any sense. If Stannis alone went to the North he'd have to leave Dragonstone to whomever wanted to take it, be at ends with the Boltons and Greyjoys instead of the Lannisters, and would weaken his forces in an effort that had nothing to do with his raison d'etre, taking his rightful position as heir to the Iron Throne. If I was an Iron Bank rep and heard about this, I'd consider it to be a mad quest totally irrelevant to the ostensible reasons why Stannis sought his loan with me.

Since I've read the books, I won't comment.


No matter how cold, calculating, and despicable Petyr may be, he certainly keeps his eye on the ball.

I don't find Petyr despicable at all. Maybe that's another possible debate topic.

lol, wow. Yeah that would be. =)

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

At first I thought this was undebatable...but I think I can debate this. In fact, I think I would prefer this one out of our combined list.

At least it would be pretty easy to do.

Something tells me that you're not the sort to make a debate easy. =)

At 5/19/2014 11:50:05 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2014 1:10:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/18/2014 5:25:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/15/2014 3:50:27 AM, wrichcirw wrote:


Just to whittle down the list, it seems we're looking at the following:

2) King Joffrey is a Product of Unconditional Love

4) The Sex Scene Between Cercei and Jaime in the Sept Works Better as a Rape

5) King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

6) Brienne of Tarth is a Feminist Icon

4) Jaime was justified in killing the Mad King

...with the underlined being the most likely. Do you agree?

I'd debate either or both now if you'd like - I'll take CON on both of them. IMHO they both look to be very interesting debates.

I'm leaning more towards the Jaime/Mad King one just because it would be pretty straightforward, but I would also be willing to do Brienne being a feminist icon and Joffrey becoming a good king. Whichever you're most comfortable with, though if we do the Brienne one, I think we should wait till the end of the season.

I may set up some debate challenges for the topics I most want to do, but if they're not picked up, we can proceed with a topic.

Since I already have the Joffrey => good king debate set up, I'll send you the challenge...we can start whenever you're ready, or if you find something more suitable for your tastes, so be it.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Mikal
Posts: 11,271
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5/20/2014 1:09:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 11:50:35 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2014 8:28:27 AM, Mikal wrote:

Have you read the books?

skimmed not read
wrichcirw
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6/7/2014 8:27:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The debates "King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King" and "Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys Targaryen" are over if anyone is interested in reading two well-argued debates on the respective topics.

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?