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Lolicon...

Danielle
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5/5/2010 7:21:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
From a recent debate:

"Lolicon is a genre/theme of Anime in which underage female Anime characters are sexually depicted."

Someone please explain this to me, because I know there are indeed Lolicon fans here. I just don't get it. Why would you want to see underage female characters depicted sexually?! For one thing, they're not even REAL... so even if one was a pedophile, how can cartoons get you off or excite you sexually? I know some people have 'interesting' fetishes but I don't think I could take getting off to a cartoon seriously. When I think of cartoons, I think of my childhood. Not orgasming.

Also, would it be fair to assume that Lolicon fans are indeed pedophiles? Granted they might not go out and rape children, so technically they're innocent in the eyes of the law. However, if one has a sexual appreciation for noticeably (purposefully) UNDERAGE girls -- and yes, Lolicon girls are intentionally depicted sexually in their outfits, expressions, etc. then isn't it fair to assume that one has the mental capacity of a pedophile even if they don't act on it?

Obviously Lolicon is about sex. If it weren't, people would stick to 'regular' Anime. So what's the catch? What's the appeal? Is it masturbating material? Genuine entertainment (...right)? An act of teenage rebellion? Splain.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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5/5/2010 7:54:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well I looked it up, on wikipedia and apparently the term is derived from Lolita. In lolita the object of desire is a 12 year old girl. So it seems that lolicon is associated with the sexualisation of pubescent, not pre-pubsecent children. This is unfortunately in accord with normal male sexuality, as evidenced by history, but thankfully at odds with modern society's desire to wait till full development.

In colloquial terms Lolicon seems to be a form of paedophilia. Though a more accurate term may be ephebophilia (not sure about the spelling).
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/5/2010 8:29:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
S0m31john isn't around any more, you're a little late.

That said what's the difference between watching cartoon porn and watching regular porn? Regular porn isn't really all that much more "real," what with all the off-camera lubrication that they pretend isn't there, fake orgasms, sacks of saline, digitally altered skin, etc. I get off to things I READ, I don't see how getting off to a cartoon, which at least has a visual component, is all that outlandish.

I'd probably get off to cartoons myself if it weren't for the fact that most women in hentai who aren't lolis have whales instead of breasts. ^_^.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/5/2010 8:31:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:54:05 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Well I looked it up, on wikipedia and apparently the term is derived from Lolita. In lolita the object of desire is a 12 year old girl. So it seems that lolicon is associated with the sexualisation of pubescent, not pre-pubsecent children.
It's both. A loli, by 4chan standards, can range from 5 to a teenager as long as said teenager isn't fully developed. (any younger than 5ish and it's called "toddlerkon" instead of "lolicon.")
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:32:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:21:03 AM, theLwerd wrote:
From a recent debate:

"Lolicon is a genre/theme of Anime in which underage female Anime characters are sexually depicted."

Someone please explain this to me, because I know there are indeed Lolicon fans here.
s0m31john. But he's not here.
I just don't get it. Why would you want to see underage female characters depicted sexually?! For one thing, they're not even REAL...
You might want t look up the psychology on that. Real and "cartoon" porn have the exact same effect on the human mind. In fact, some even argue that the latter is more powerful, since they can be top-down designed to perfection, erasing all of the blemishes or other little things real people would have.
so even if one was a pedophile, how can cartoons get you off or excite you sexually? I know some people have 'interesting' fetishes but I don't think I could take getting off to a cartoon seriously. When I think of cartoons, I think of my childhood. Not orgasming.
See video. Is video I paraphrased from.

Also, would it be fair to assume that Lolicon fans are indeed pedophiles?
I do too. I don't know what they think.
Granted they might not go out and rape children, so technically they're innocent in the eyes of the law. However, if one has a sexual appreciation for noticeably (purposefully) UNDERAGE girls -- and yes, Lolicon girls are intentionally depicted sexually in their outfits, expressions, etc. then isn't it fair to assume that one has the mental capacity of a pedophile even if they don't act on it?
Then it's rather good that they're hooked on "just drawings", no? Most fictional depictions of things are "pressure release valves" for their realistic counterparts, whether the users like it or not. Comic book guys like heroes, look at how heroic they are. Anonymous likes dating sim games, see how many of them have girlfriends. And etc. There are counterexamples of course. But it makes enough sense to me.

Obviously Lolicon is about sex. If it weren't, people would stick to 'regular' Anime. So what's the catch? What's the appeal? Is it masturbating material? Genuine entertainment (...right)? An act of teenage rebellion? Splain.

Here's a big copypasta I found on /a/ on the "Moe" phenomenon, which is quite related to "Lolicon". I see them as more or less the same thing, but you can look them up if you're interested.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:32:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here I've compiled some interesting reads, from the history of moe to its roots in society and japanese culture. They're all good reads, but since each of them is a wall of text of their own, allow me to post in this thread some bits and pieces.

On moe and society:
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk...
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://repository.upenn.edu...
http://www.comixology.com...

On the "cute culture" and gender roles:
http://www.jref.com...
http://www.jref.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.time.com...

Lulz:
http://supacat.tumblr.com...
http://www.jref.com...

A more nuanced report by and for fans suggests that perhaps both the pure and perverse are potential moe images. The author, Shingo, defines moe as a response to a human(oid) entity who is innocent, gazed at and becomes embarrassed (Shingo 2005). He then establishes four categories of moe based on imagined access to or distance from the character: junai (pure love), otome (maiden), denpa (kinetic) and ero-kawaii (erotic-cute). Shingo proposes four principles to understand moe:

1. A moe character cannot be aware of her own appeal.
2. The greater an image's emphasis on style and fetish symbol at the expense of narrative, ambience and relationships, the less relevant propriety becomes.
3. The closer the viewer (or his narrative proxy) becomes to a moe character, the harder it is for her to maintain her sense of propriety.
4. The viewer's emotional response to a moe image is a function of the convergence of his position relative to the image with the heroine's state of maidenly virtue as depicted therein.

As discussed above, most otaku stress emotional rather than sexual needs for moe characters, but the image of the girl-child is clearly eroticized. While Honda posits this as a balanced gender identity, it appears somewhat problematic to simultaneously protect (coded as female) and prey (coded as male) on the child in pursuit of moe, even if only in the realm of fantasy.

Psychoanalyst Saitou Tamaki discusses otaku sexuality as 'asymmetrical desire,' or 'a sexuality deliberately separated from everyday life' (Saitou 2007: 245). Saitou argues that otaku sexuality depends on 'fantasy contexts' (kyokou no kontekusuto), or what Itou has called the 'reality of kyara.' What sort of sexuality is conditioned in interaction with moe characters, with pure fantasy? Consider for example dating simulator games. Interestingly, these games are often not very sexual beyond teasing images of girls in various states of undress; sexual representation stops short of vaginal penetration. There are more explicit variants, but in recent years these have given way to so-called novel games, which are extremely text heavy and feature few, if any, images of sex (Azuma 2009). They usually take place in idyllic school settings among fantasized youth. It is in essence nostalgia for a past that never was. Player choices are reduced and the emphasis is on passively experiencing emotional melodrama, almost like reading a romance novel (recall again the discourse on feminization of otaku in moe). These games are often called nakige (crying games) because the objective is 'to cry' (Azuma 2009: 76), which makes sense given Honda's explanation of moe as a mechanism for men to indulge the feminine restricted by social norms (Honda 2005: 16).

However, be it a moment in the original or an extended scene in fan production, these characters are sexualized for masturbatory fantasy. The pleasure derived from moe characters is not always physical, but is masturbatory because, even when emotional, the pleasure is derived by and for the individual. Both the possibility of purity in feelings for and as the female character and the possibility of subversive stimulation as sexual predator exist simultaneously, and this schizophrenic sexual expression exists as a mediated construct between the solitary player and the images reflected on his screen. In games intended to inspire moe, the all-important purity is affirmed even as it is implicitly violated.

http://www.comixology.com...

First off, let me make the terms clear: I know that when Japanese people say moe, it can mean any kind of loving fandom, from train moe to sci-fi moe to girls-with-glasses moe. In that way, moe is just another nerd-word like otaku. The word moe actually comes from a kanji meaning "to sprout." "My vegetable love should grow," to misuse a quote from Andrew Marvell—a slow budding affection, like a tender young plant.

Or like an underage girl, unfortunately. The moe which makes me periodically ashamed to read manga in public, and which has caused a raging debate in the Otaku USA letter column, is a particular kind of moe which has its roots in the Japanese love of cuteness, domesticity and—one element among many—the lingering lolicon trend. It's the moe of stories like Azumanga Daioh and Strawberry Marshmallow and Tori Koro and Yotsuba&!, in which adorable girls do adorable things.

Going a step further, it's the moe of stories like Kanna and Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase and Hinadori Girl and Blood Alone, in which adorable girls do adorable things while living in questionable situations with adult men. And if I went just another step further, it'd be the moe of Nymphet, in which adorable girls sexually tease adult men, but that manga crossed the line and got everybody offended and was never translated (Seven Seas Entertainment canceled it in 2007 after a chain of negative reactions to the announcement), even though, frankly, it's probably more honest about its intentions than some of the other titles I just mentioned.

Yes, the web of moe is like a complex mesh stretching from almost totally innocent titles like Azumanga Daioh, in which the reader gets to peep at the chaste world of girls, to yuri (lesbian) stories aimed at men (Strawberry Panic being one of the most pandering examples), to open lolicon fantasies. Of course, in pure moe, there's never sex, just as in bishonen beautiful-boy manga (as opposed to true Boy's Love) the characters just bicker suggestively and never actually rip each other's clothes off and get down to it. In fact, it is often so sweet and gentle, like Azumanga, that it can be enjoyed at face value as a children's manga—even though Dengeki Daioh, the magazine in which Azumanga ran, is aimed at teenage through twentysomething men. Blatant sexualiy would destroy the illusion of innocence that is part of the moe appeal.

But still, in Tsukuyomi Moon Phase for instance, it's just assumed that there will be sexual tension between college-age Kouhei and Hazuki, who looks like a 10-year-old girl. "You better not touch her," his relatives warn. If my relatives felt they had to tell me this, I'd either (a) get new relatives or (b) take a long hard look at my life. Even in Yotsuba&!, in which an adorable green-haired girl lives in the care of Koiwai, a cheerful twentysomething slacker, couldn't Koiwai have actually been Yotsuba's real father? Does he have to be her mysterious, vague adoptive father? Is the idea of Koiwai actually having sex with an adult woman and producing Yotsuba really that much of a wet blanket on the story?
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:33:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"Is it a sign of pedophilia? Hell no, I say it's the longing for fatherhood," argued Scott Von Schilling in a column a few years ago. Scott went on to point out that the majority of moe readers are unmarried men in their 30s, who are seeing the "window of fatherhood" slowly closing in on them. With the graying of Japan, with Japan's low birthrate, is it a stretch to say that youth and childhood is becoming a more and more prized commodity? (This idea is itself the subject of many a manga, such as Masahiro Shibata's unpleasant science fiction/sex manga Sarai.) "All these men really want is an innocent little girl of their own to take care of," he concludes.

Von Schilling has a point, but it's only half a point. The desire to nurture and the sex drive are all too easily combined, as anyone who's studied child abuse knows. Stu-Hiro's untranslated manga Otaku no Musume-san ("Otaku's Daughter") confronts this dilemma a little more bluntly than other manga of its type. The protagonist, Kouta, is a 26-year-old nerd who is suddenly reunited with his 9-year-old daughter Kanau, the spawn of a single sexual encounter in high school. At first eager to meet her dad, Kanau is appalled to discover that her father is a doll-collecting pervert and porn manga author (actually one of his more positive traits -- at least he's working) whose apartment is full of body pillows and art of little girls in panties.

Kouta (who, we eventually learn, turned to the dark path of the otaku because he still pines for his lost high school love) at least has the good sense to be embarrassed, and tries to clean up his act, at least in front of her. ("Once you enter this world you start forgetting what things are like in the real world…since you're living here now I'll have to be more careful from now on. Sorry.") So Kanau ends up being raised in an environment full of borderline pedophilic imagery, without the suggestion of actual abuse taking place. Everybody's happy!

>>2 5 01/07/10(Thu)19:38 No.29530311

In such media, sexuality is deferred as long as possible and, when indulged, often takes the form of abuse. Moe characters are most typically youthful, innocent girls, and such characters regularly appear in dating simulators. As Akamatsu states, it is the pre-violation child that is moe, or that which does not know the world and is fetishized as pure. However, while protecting and nurturing, the child becomes a lover. This theme is so pervasive that it has become a genre onto itself, 'nurturing simulation games.' Not surprisingly, Gainax, the company that created Ayanami Rei and helped propel the trend of moe characters, is known for making these nurturing games. Examples include Princess Maker in 1991 and Ayanami Nurturing Project in 2001. Just as Azuma points out a gradual de-sexualization of dating simulator games, later editions of Princess Maker present the player the option of being a mother with zero sexual access to the daughter (=moe object) in the game, even as the player is visually stimulated by his daughter. In all cases, the passive, emotional (coded as feminine) desire to care is juxtaposed with an aggressive, physical (coded as masculine) desire to mate. Both purity and perversion are expressed in extremes, and the existence of one makes the other possible. The original purity of Ayanami is precisely why she is so perversely abused. The girl-child inspires moe in polymorphous forms because she is tied to a moment without past (context) or future (consequence).

The emphasis on youth in moe is another aspect that demands attention. For example, a common moe character type is the little sister (imouto). Honda explains the little sister as representative of the pure otaku desire for family, which would also ostensibly account for the daughter character in the nurturing fantasy. However, we cannot ignore that the first erotic animations in Japan, Lolita Anime and Cream Lemon in 1984, featured little girl and little sister characters, respectively. The conflation of child-like innocence and adult desire has been employed for decades in Japanese pornography surrounding schoolgirls. In most cases, uniforms, the fetishized signifier of innocent status and character, remains in spite of, and even during, sexualization to provide a target for desire.

>>2 7 01/07/10(Thu)19:41 No.29530408

One man I spoke with commented that archetypes of desire are formulated between age 12 and 14, and so it makes sense that youth in Japan surrounded by young girls in uniform would desire this; those who fixate on this archetype repeat it in media, in turn reinforcing the desire. This discourse problematically places all desire on early adolescence, but it made sense for this man and others like him who fixate on middle school, a time before social pressures to perform as a responsible adult at work (earn a salary) and home (start a family). That time of purity and potential remains in 'moratorium', even as those who access it often also remain in a state of moratorium outside society. Syu-chan, a self-proclaimed otaku in his thirties, explained his fetish for schoolgirl uniforms and related little sister characters in moe anime as coming from his inability to consummate the young love he dreamed of as an adolescent. 'By my late twenties I realized that what I didn't have back then is what I will always want. I will always be single.' When asked why he didn't try to find a partner now as an adult, he explained that people like him – an otaku long on hobbies and passion and short on looks and money – are excluded from the market of love. For Syu-chan, it made sense to imagine a space of 'pure love' apart from reality. As the age of sexual and capitalist maturity becomes ever younger, for example 'compensated dating' among primary school students, the age of purity re-centers on even younger girls. The symbol of this was the little sister in uniform, but this does not equate to actual incestuous desire. This might be understood as first a longing for a time of youthful possibilities and hope (signified by the uniform) and second a desire for an uncompromising relationship not conditioned by society (the little sister).

>>3 1 01/07/10(Thu)19:49 No.29530641

Nisan is part of a thriving subculture of men and women in Japan who indulge in real relationships with imaginary characters. These 2-D lovers, as they are called, are a subset of otaku culture— the obsessive fandom that has surrounded anime, manga and video games in Japan in the last decade. It's impossible to say exactly what portion of otaku are 2-D lovers, because the distinction between the two can be blurry. Like most otaku, the majority of 2-D lovers go to work, pay rent, hang out with friends (some are even married). Unlike most otaku, though, they have real romantic feelings for their toys. The less extreme might have a hidden collection of figurines based on anime characters that they go on "dates" with during off hours. A more serious 2-D lover, like Nisan, actually believes that a lumpy pillow with a drawing of a prepubescent anime character on it is his girlfriend.

According to many who study the phenomenon, the rise of 2-D love can be attributed in part to the difficulty many young Japanese have in navigating modern romantic life. According to a government survey, more than a quarter of unmarried men and women between the ages of 30 and 34 are virgins; 50 percent of men and women in Japan said they were not "going out with anybody." One of the biggest best sellers in the country last year was "Health and Physical Education for Over Thirty," a six-chapter, manga-illustrated guidebook that holds the reader's hand from the first meeting to sex to marriage.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:33:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Most 2-D lovers prefer a different kind of self-help. The guru of the 2-D love movement, Toru Honda, a 40-year-old man with a boyishly round face and puppy-dog eyes, has written half a dozen books advocating the 2-D lifestyle. A few years ago, Honda, a college dropout who worked a succession of jobs at video-game companies, began to use the Internet to urge otaku to stand with pride against good-looking men and women. His site generated enough buzz to earn him a publishing contract, and in 2005 he released a book condemning what he calls "romantic capitalism." Honda argues that romance was marketed so excessively through B-movies, soap operas and novels during Japan's economic bubble of the '80s that it has become a commodity and its true value has been lost; romance is so tainted with social constructs that it can be bought by only good looks and money. According to Honda, somewhere along the way, decent men like himself lost interest in the notion entirely and turned to 2-D. "Pure love is completely gone in the real world," Honda wrote. "As long as you train your imagination, a 2-D relationship is much more passionate than a 3-D one." Honda insists that he's advocating not prurience but a whole new kind of romance. If, as some researchers suggest, romantic love can be broken down into electrical impulses in the brain, then why not train the mind to simulate those signals while looking at an inanimate character?

Honda's fans took his message to heart. When he admitted to watching human porn at a panel discussion in Tokyo in 2005, several hundred hard-core 2-D lovers in the audience booed with shock that their dear leader had nostalgia for the 3-D world. Later, in an interview with a Japanese newspaper, Honda clarified his position, saying that he was worried 2-D love was becoming an easy way out for young otaku, who might still have a shot at success in the real world. "I'm not saying that everyone should throw away hopes of real romance right away. I am simply saying that guys like me who have gotten to a point of no return can be happy living in 2-D."
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Cerebral_Narcissist
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5/5/2010 8:34:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:31:44 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:54:05 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Well I looked it up, on wikipedia and apparently the term is derived from Lolita. In lolita the object of desire is a 12 year old girl. So it seems that lolicon is associated with the sexualisation of pubescent, not pre-pubsecent children.
It's both. A loli, by 4chan standards, can range from 5 to a teenager as long as said teenager isn't fully developed. (any younger than 5ish and it's called "toddlerkon" instead of "lolicon.")

Okay... that's a little wierd.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/5/2010 8:34:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:33:25 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"Is it a sign of pedophilia? Hell no, I say it's the longing for fatherhood

If by "fatherhood" you mean " a daughter to have incest with..."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:35:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:34:14 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:33:25 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"Is it a sign of pedophilia? Hell no, I say it's the longing for fatherhood

If by "fatherhood" you mean " a daughter to have incest with..."

Please let me re-emphasize. COPYPASTA FOUND ON /a/.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Vi_Veri
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5/5/2010 8:35:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:34:14 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:33:25 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"Is it a sign of pedophilia? Hell no, I say it's the longing for fatherhood

If by "fatherhood" you mean " a daughter to have incest with..."

LMFAO exactly
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Rezzealaux
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5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's actually not too far of a stretch, if you know what's happening to Japan. People aren't getting married because they don't have enough money, Men have expectations of women that aren't met, women have expectations of men that aren't met, and I know that sounds rather generic and can be said about anyone, but it's about the degree and exact combination, and in Japan, it's really bad.

Also, kids are seen as "unnecessary" these days.

Among other things which I can't remember.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Danielle
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5/5/2010 8:38:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:29:08 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
S0m31john isn't around any more, you're a little late.

I know there are closet fans around here somewhere.

That said what's the difference between watching cartoon porn and watching regular porn? Regular porn isn't really all that much more "real..."

No, of course porn isn't real and obviously it relies heavily on imagination. My question was about how people can get turned on by cartoons, because cartoons in particular have a correlation (in my mind) with childhood, innocence, etc. since that is the demographic most interested in cartoons and whom cartoons are marketed to. Pedophiles get turned on by these things (I don't). I was making a connection and explaining why I don't find cartoons to be erotic, and making the correlation between children and cartoons can probably never ever make cartoons erotic or sexual for me.

I get off to things I READ, I don't see how getting off to a cartoon, which at least has a visual component, is all that outlandish.

Oh giiirl you don't have to say that again! I love reading porn lol admittedly I don't do much of it ever but in HS that really got my jollies off. Anyhoot, again if I were reading about adults then yes I can use my imagination and get off using the text porn. However if I am reading manga porn, I CAN'T. Cartoons, for me, cannot be sexual just as animals can't be sexual (in my mind). I don't watch animals screwing and feel sexually aroused. Similarly, I can not be aroused by cartoons. I think it'd weird me out and make me really uncomfortable. Do these people want to ejaculate into the drawings? I don't get it.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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5/5/2010 8:38:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
It's actually not too far of a stretch
Are you quoting one of the males in a loli manga? :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/5/2010 8:42:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:38:47 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
It's actually not too far of a stretch
Are you quoting one of the males in a loli manga? :)

Monica and I giggled.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/5/2010 8:42:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:38:04 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:29:08 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
S0m31john isn't around any more, you're a little late.

I know there are closet fans around here somewhere.


If you got your jollies from erotic cartoon images of underage girls you would probably have the good sense to stay in that closet!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/5/2010 8:43:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:38:04 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:29:08 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
S0m31john isn't around any more, you're a little late.

I know there are closet fans around here somewhere.

That said what's the difference between watching cartoon porn and watching regular porn? Regular porn isn't really all that much more "real..."

No, of course porn isn't real and obviously it relies heavily on imagination. My question was about how people can get turned on by cartoons, because cartoons in particular have a correlation (in my mind) with childhood, innocence, etc
They really don't for me. Read a few guro for the lulz and that correlation will be gone as all hell.
That said, if they DO have such a correlation, wouldn't that just turn a pedo on more?


I get off to things I READ, I don't see how getting off to a cartoon, which at least has a visual component, is all that outlandish.

Oh giiirl you don't have to say that again!
*Ragnar is heavily conflicted about being called "giiirl"*

Do these people want to ejaculate into the drawings?
Do you want to choke the drawings of a villain in a nonsexual cartoon? No, you want to choke the villain, who the drawings stylize to emphasize certain traits and deemphasize traits that reduce his villainy. If you're absorbed in a cartoon, you don't see a cartoon, any more than you see funny shapes in a book. Your imagination fills in, you peer into a world.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/5/2010 8:43:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:42:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:38:47 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
It's actually not too far of a stretch
Are you quoting one of the males in a loli manga? :)

Monica and I giggled.

How exactly does Monica "giggle?"
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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5/5/2010 8:45:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:43:58 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:42:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:38:47 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
It's actually not too far of a stretch
Are you quoting one of the males in a loli manga? :)

Monica and I giggled.

How exactly does Monica "giggle?"

It's a creepy thought, actually.... Tell her I'm sorry for sexually abusing her if she truly is conscious o.O
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/5/2010 8:47:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 8:45:33 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:43:58 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:42:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:38:47 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/5/2010 8:37:33 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
It's actually not too far of a stretch
Are you quoting one of the males in a loli manga? :)

Monica and I giggled.

How exactly does Monica "giggle?"

It's a creepy thought, actually.... Tell her I'm sorry for sexually abusing her if she truly is conscious o.O

Thank you for the image ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lastrequest691
Posts: 339
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5/5/2010 12:26:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
They don't show Lolicons here. Getting aroused looking at jailbait girls- that is weird.

"Hayate, the Combat Butler" does have some episodes which contain jailbait girls getting abused by that horny tiger.

Anime is for kids and should be pure.
I believe Japan should be converted to Catholicism to avoid these kind of things.
"That song was absolutely waste of talent; you sounded like a wounded animal and who told you to play the guitar by yourself." Simon Cowell
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/5/2010 12:53:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 12:26:27 PM, lastrequest691 wrote:

I believe Japan should be converted to Catholicism to avoid these kind of things.

Haha... awesome.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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5/5/2010 2:26:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 12:26:27 PM, lastrequest691 wrote:
They don't show Lolicons here. Getting aroused looking at jailbait girls- that is weird.

"Hayate, the Combat Butler" does have some episodes which contain jailbait girls getting abused by that horny tiger.

Anime is for kids and should be pure.
I believe Japan should be converted to Catholicism to avoid these kind of things.

Lol, anime is for kids.

I think that a big reason fo the lolicon fetish is how the artists portray the subject matter.

Exhibit A (SFW):
http://thisrecording.files.wordpress.com...

That picture makes it kind of look like the young girls are more adult than the age they are being portrayed as. I'm not going to say that having a lolicon fetish doesn't mean you're a pedophile, but I can see how the two can be exclusive.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/5/2010 4:07:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:21:03 AM, theLwerd wrote:
From a recent debate:

"Lolicon is a genre/theme of Anime in which underage female Anime characters are sexually depicted."

Someone please explain this to me, because I know there are indeed Lolicon fans here. I just don't get it. Why would you want to see underage female characters depicted sexually?! For one thing, they're not even REAL... so even if one was a pedophile, how can cartoons get you off or excite you sexually? I know some people have 'interesting' fetishes but I don't think I could take getting off to a cartoon seriously. When I think of cartoons, I think of my childhood. Not orgasming.

Also, would it be fair to assume that Lolicon fans are indeed pedophiles? Granted they might not go out and rape children, so technically they're innocent in the eyes of the law. However, if one has a sexual appreciation for noticeably (purposefully) UNDERAGE girls -- and yes, Lolicon girls are intentionally depicted sexually in their outfits, expressions, etc. then isn't it fair to assume that one has the mental capacity of a pedophile even if they don't act on it?

Obviously Lolicon is about sex. If it weren't, people would stick to 'regular' Anime. So what's the catch? What's the appeal? Is it masturbating material? Genuine entertainment (...right)? An act of teenage rebellion? Splain.

it's porn for horny children.
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tyciol
Posts: 3
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5/16/2010 7:08:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The definition in the original post is not an apt description of lolicon artwork or fandom.

As for why you'd want to see underage characters sexually: sometimes they are attractive. The yuri sailor scouts for example, Uranus and Neptune I think it was. Oh noez, they are under 18, suddenly I don't want to see them make out.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/16/2010 7:18:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 7:08:38 AM, tyciol wrote:
The definition in the original post is not an apt description of lolicon artwork or fandom.

As for why you'd want to see underage characters sexually: sometimes they are attractive. The yuri sailor scouts for example, Uranus and Neptune I think it was. Oh noez, they are under 18, suddenly I don't want to see them make out.

Lolicon goes far, far, far below the legally acceptable age of 18. When you start wanting ages 12 and below to start mackin', you deserve a smackin'.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/16/2010 7:34:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lol @ this Korashk: http://thisrecording.files.wordpress.com...

But I disagree that those girls look "older than they really are." They look like children to me - ages 13 and 10. I agree with Volkov that the girls sexually depicted are far younger than 18. Obviously this type of "porn" should be legal but I don't see how fans/defenders justify getting off to cartoon children. I'm pretty sure they have to admit to pedophilia; maybe not the act, but at least the desire.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/16/2010 8:03:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 7:08:38 AM, tyciol wrote:
The definition in the original post is not an apt description of lolicon artwork or fandom.

As for why you'd want to see underage characters sexually: sometimes they are attractive. The yuri sailor scouts for example, Uranus and Neptune I think it was. Oh noez, they are under 18, suddenly I don't want to see them make out.

Under 18 is not loli. There are loads of hentai full of 16 year olds. There's loads of porn with people in cheerleader outfits. I don't think anyone (except maybe my AP lit teacher) accuses the consumers of such things of being "pedophiles."

Now cut that age in half, and it's a different story.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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5/16/2010 10:44:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 2:26:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 5/5/2010 12:26:27 PM, lastrequest691 wrote:

Exhibit A (SFW):
http://thisrecording.files.wordpress.com...

Lolicon will be illegal here in Britain soon so if that image is cached on my computer and the police find it I'll be looking at a long stretch inside.

Thanks Korashk.
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