Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

Predators

Korashk
Posts: 4,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2010 10:27:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think this will be a spoileriffic post, but here's a warnin nonetheless.
.
.
.
So I just went and say this movie and I thouroughly enjoyed myself. Rodriguez kept it simple and even paid homage to past Predator movies. For instance one of the characters weilds Ol' Painless, traps are fairly prevalent, and they even utilize the mud. The makers also didn't try and turn this movie into something it's not. It was just Predators hunting humans who are trying to escape.

Anyone else want to give their opinion on the movie.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2010 12:06:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nobody else has seen it yet?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2010 3:09:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/10/2010 12:58:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
It has good reviews. I have to see Inception and Toy Story 3 before I bother with it though.

Inception is a definite must-see for me as well.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/11/2010 5:55:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/10/2010 12:58:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
It has good reviews. I have to see Inception and Toy Story 3 before I bother with it though.

Toy Story 3 was brilliant.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/13/2010 6:04:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I saw it today, mild spoilers ahead.

I didn't like the fact that there seemed to be some dishonourabe killing on behalf of the Predators, the whole point of the Predator's way of thinking even during the first film was that they only hunt prey that can defend itself. Lawrence Fishburne's character had no such method, additionally, a Predator isn't supposed to rely on his or her plasmacaster as a primary weapon.

However, this might be explained by the presence of the different Predators, Lawrence mentions a blood feud between them that could symbolise a feud between clans, different clans produce predators that look and act differently, but that would imply that this is a clan-wide matter rather than the seemingly isolated bout of violence. The other answer could be that the larger predators are outcasts that kill to try and regain some degree of honour, which would explain their continued presence as symbolised by the age of the camp (the size, amount of rotting carcasses and the abundance of scorched earth insinuate that a lot of fires have been lit and a lot of bodies have been burned and a lot of prey has been brought back to the camp over) Also the Boss Pred destroying the ship atthe end, a ship he should have the means to control remotely like the smaller Pred, imply that none of them particularly fancy leaving. Hell the ship's placement could be there to taunt the Predators on the planet.

They made a mistake, though, the sniper reveals partway through the film that she was the woman that accompanied Dutch and the guerillas in 1987, but in Predator the girl's name is Anna, in Predators, she says her name is Isabella.

(I read into this sh!t waaaaay too much)

As much as the modus operandi and the general attitude of the larger predators irked me a bit, it really just made me want to see them get beaten, and to be fair, the Yakuza's duel with one of the bigger ones was very samurai-flick and very well done, I thought.

The fire trick was inventive too, and there were tons of CHekov's guns, which is good because it means at least the characters aren't impersonating headless chickens the whole time, just 90% of the time.

I liked the film, don't get me wrong, I admit I don't understand how the predators could have selected the characters in the way they did without direct contact, and I don't fully understand how the "dogs" could have been dropped on-planet but also be loyal to the local Preds, but then the way the Preds use them I suppose they'd need constant doggy reinforcements.

Also there were more weapon similarities between the two films than the inclusion of Old Painless

The original film had two MP5s, an M-16 with underslung grenade launcher, an assault rifle with "masterkey" shotgun, old painless and an M60.

The mexican dude wielded two HK5's (much like one of the characters did in the original just before his death) which are produced by Heckler and Koch, the same company that made the MP5 (I think that's the case anyway, there's a similarity in there somewhere)

Old painless is matched with old painless

the rifle/shotgun is matched with the AA20 and Rorke's use of the explosives projectile

Rourke also picks up a flare gun to match the grenade launcher

the assault rifle part of the 16/grenade launcher combo is matched by the Kalashnikov

which leaves only the M60 in the original and the sniper rifle in the new addition.

I admit I would like to see more of the Predator films intertwine with the comics, repetitive though they may be, there's actually an interesting backstory involving various humans trying to acquire Predator technology and join their ranks, I think it'd be good to see something like that being played out, especially since humans have fought alongside or beaten Preddies on so many occasions, but then I suppose there's breathing room when considering what's canon and what isn't insofar as the video games and comics are concerned.

but generally...yeah, I enjoyed it, I expected more from the Pred vs Pred duel but that doesn't exactly ruin it.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/13/2010 11:26:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/13/2010 6:04:37 PM, Veridas wrote:
I didn't like the fact that there seemed to be some dishonourabe killing on behalf of the Predators, the whole point of the Predator's way of thinking even during the first film was that they only hunt prey that can defend itself. Lawrence Fishburne's character had no such method, additionally, a Predator isn't supposed to rely on his or her plasmacaster as a primary weapon.

You're obviously more versed on the canon than I am, but from what I got from the original wasn't that they don't like dishonorable killing so much as they don't like killing those that pose no threat. Nolan had been living on the game planet for years and had killed Predators in the past, ergo he was a threat and worthy opponent.

I also find it unlikely that the "Wolf" Predators are the outcasts based solely on how Nolan talked about them. I also think you're going in the wrong direction with the camp. The reason it looks so used is probably because that's a warcamp of some sort that always gets used as the Predator BoO. The boss blowing up the ship was probably because while he could control it with his wrist device, the internal controls of the ship override the remote ones. Therefore if he didn't want the prey to get away his only option was to destroy it and call for another one when it wanted to leave.

They made a mistake, though, the sniper reveals partway through the film that she was the woman that accompanied Dutch and the guerillas in 1987, but in Predator the girl's name is Anna, in Predators, she says her name is Isabella.

I don't remember her revealing that she was there, just that she knew about it from reading a mission report or something. Considering the timeline the character in Predators wasn't old enough to have been the same person and I'm pretty sure that Anna wasn't an Israeli Special Forces member.

As for the weapons, it's been a while since I saw Predator and Old Painless was the only one I could remember. I just wish that Danny Trejo's character had lived longer.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2010 1:49:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Korashk wrote: You're obviously more versed on the canon than I am, but from what I got from the original wasn't that they don't like dishonorable killing so much as they don't like killing those that pose no threat. Nolan had been living on the game planet for years and had killed Predators in the past, ergo he was a threat and worthy opponent. :

The canon is fairly simple, but generally speaking only unblooded Predators are permitted to kill prey that can't defend itself, this is less to do with it being permitted and more to do with the fact that the unblooded's are the youngest and least experienced of the hunters and thus have to be able to hunt something to train their skills, a bit like shooting at a target dummy in the army before being sent off to shoot at people that shoot back.

Nolan, whatever the Yautja (since that's their name for themselves) thought of him, killed a maximum of three Yautja over the course of ten "seasons." Seasonal hunting is a big thing in the Predator lore even only in the films, Anna in Predator talks about the Yautja only visiting during the hottest summers, the Predators are cold blooded and require hot environments or their heat-net outfits (them non-sexy versions of fishnets they're so fond of) in order to survive, given that Rorke talks about the sun not moving and the film lasts one day or so in that planet's time, I'd estimate we're looking at maybe two days earth-time throughout the course of the film. If the planet has roughly twice the orbit cycle of earth then one season will be six months rather than the three months on earth assuming it has four seasons, that's sixty months maximum, fifty-four months minimum, that's at least four years. So he killed one of them per year, less than that even.

He's not a threat.

Korashk wrote: I also find it unlikely that the "Wolf" Predators are the outcasts based solely on how Nolan talked about them. I also think you're going in the wrong direction with the camp. The reason it looks so used is probably because that's a warcamp of some sort that always gets used as the Predator BoO. The boss blowing up the ship was probably because while he could control it with his wrist device, the internal controls of the ship override the remote ones. Therefore if he didn't want the prey to get away his only option was to destroy it and call for another one when it wanted to leave.

Remember that Nolan isn't a nerd who sits at his PC reading into a fictional alien species. I am. The methods and practices shown in the film are contradictory to the generalistic Yautja ideology of strength through honour and honour through strength, and are only vaguely follows what an Outcast would do. Additionally, as a rule, Yautja do not modify their masks. The mask may have markings, and is the only piece of equipment that shows their former glory. Ceremonial masks or headbands with a single mark in the forehead are worn during interclan meetings, often to decide hunting locations via the ancient and revered diplomatic method of beating the living sh!t out of each other in an arena. This mark, in case you didn't already figure it out, identifies a Yautja as being part of a particular clan.

Despite this, the "wolf" Yautja, if that's the name we're going to use for them, modified their masks openly, and their heirarchy seemed to be based on as much mask modification as it was the trophy-hunting.

Why the boss man blew up the ship is ultimately debatableon it's own, however I find it strange that you use Nolan's status amongst the Yautja as proof of his threat, and yet your description of the camp's usage and the insinuation of a round robin system would mean that it's unlikely that any of the Yautja we see in the film know what Nolan has done, or if they do, they may believe that's due to the other clan's weakness rather than Nolan's strength. (a common Yautja logic, but it also works in the opposite when it suits them, the "we're not bad, you're just really good" excuse)

Korashk wrote: I don't remember her revealing that she was there, just that she knew about it from reading a mission report or something. Considering the timeline the character in Predators wasn't old enough to have been the same person and I'm pretty sure that Anna wasn't an Israeli Special Forces member.

Couple of things, firstly, she never says she read the debrief, and it's unlikely that a single debrief from 22 years ago would spring to her mind given everything that's happening, additionally, remember that Rourke talks about some of the characters being from differing parts in time, we know the Yautja are more than capable of using cryostasis because we see it in AVP and AVP2, so it's possible that the Yautja "abducted" her only when they believed she was experienced enough to pose any kind of threat (the fact that the Yautja chose a forest planet and chose humans of a military or otherwise violent background could also be their method of deducing new strategies since their unblooded's defeat at the hands of Dutch in 1987, remember what Nolan says about them getting interested)

Korask wrote: As for the weapons, it's been a while since I saw Predator and Old Painless was the only one I could remember. I just wish that Danny Trejo's character had lived longer.

Name doesn't ring a bell but I was lucky enough to catch the last two thirds on sky movies last week so most of the film is still fresh in my memory.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
theitalianstallion
Posts: 1,109
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2010 2:20:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was very entertained by the movie; great action sequences and the film as a whole felt fresh.

The one thing I didn't like is that there were some human survivors. I find that aspect of Predator movies complete BS and it annoys me to no end.
When Reach fell, I came.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2010 11:59:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm going to see this tonight. AWESOME! >o<
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2010 12:08:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 11:59:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm going to see this tonight. AWESOME! >o<

Lol, apparently I'm going to The Sorcerer's Apprentice tomorrow night with my mom.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/16/2010 11:57:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was under the impression Isabelles character read about the Predators in some file as well. I really liked it, but I was slightly disappointed by the end. Action was awesome. Characters were good. Story was as expected
3.75/5
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2010 12:32:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/16/2010 12:09:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Watch Inception if you all wish to be confused as f*ck.

It wasn't that confusing...
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2010 12:39:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:32:04 AM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/16/2010 12:09:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Watch Inception if you all wish to be confused as f*ck.

It wasn't that confusing...

You just basically called her an idiot. :P