Total Posts:9|Showing Posts:1-9
Jump to topic:

The Perception Deception.

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/25/2015 10:04:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread is basically to discuss the very entertaining book by David Icke
"The Perception deception"
If you have not read the book, please refrain from commenting till you have actually read it or at least have started reading it.
Here is a link to the free book for you to download...
http://archonmatrix.com...

Drew made me aware of the book on
http://www.debate.org...

Read posts #14-22

Drew also started a thread about it on the science forum where the comments are basically just ridiculing the Author.
http://www.debate.org...

Anyway, I do not think the book is about science at all. To me it is a mixture of many different things combined into one book.

Hopefully we can discuss the ideas, concepts and implications in the book rather than just ridicule its author.

Those who are interested in this topic, please take time to at least read the first two chapters before making any comments.

Remember that our opinions have a LOT to do with our own perceptions.

I will start with the Pre- Story, page 11 on the pdf file.

Stay tuned to the next post.
To Be Continued.......
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/25/2015 10:42:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Pre- Story
Page 11 on the pdf file http://archonmatrix.com...

Icke admits to being a day dreamer at school.
He suffered from arthritis early in his life. He does not say what medication he was taking for that problem or what the side affects of the medication were.

The story about being half asleep, not being able to breathe, feeling paralyzed and close to death, then suddenly gasping breath and feeling agonizing pain, make me wonder if his arthritic condition and the medication he must have been on at the time caused these affects on his body and mind. Pain, illnesses and medication can obviously have different affects on different people.

Icke claims many different jobs and experiences through life but never mentions his mediation or treatment for his illness. That is all left to the reader to wonder about.

Then he talks about a "presence" which he began to notice when he was in a room all alone. Again I wonder if the "presence" was some kind of affect of medication on his brain.
However, regardless of what caused the affect or experience, He claims to have experienced it.
Now I keep in mind that he is a fiction writer and wants to sell books so he needs to make them entertaining and at least try to keep readers absorbed in the story.
So far, this presence certainly makes readers curious as to what is causing it.

Could it be a deception created by his own perception ?

Perception Deception is ironically the book title.

Anyway, obviously his own perception of this presence, and voices in his own head, led him to seek help from a psychic.
That might seem logical to someone on medication who believes their own perceptions and experiences are real.

If the healthy ones amongst us put ourselves into the shoes of people who suffering physical illnesses and are on medication, it is not hard to understand how medications can affect what goes on in the mind and perception.
Obviously people who are sick really do experience and perceive things which might never be experienced or perceived by healthy people who have no need for any medications.

Visiting psychics also must have some affect on people. I doubt anyone who is not inclined to believe in paranormal activites would bother with any psychics in the first place.

Dreamers are also more likely to believe in the paranormal and supernatural than realists who have their heads screwed on the right way.
Dreamers also tend to make the best fiction authors because they have great imaginations.
If they can fool themselves into believing their own perceptions are real and true, how much easier is it to convince others?

If you do not believe yourself you will never cause anyone else to believe you.

TBC....................
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/25/2015 10:56:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Messages from some "presence" promising fame and riches can be very self fulfilling if the person who believes these things sets out to do what is necessary to gain the fame and riches and is prepared to be ridiculed along the way.
Trying to pander to public opinion never made anyone rich or famous.
Crawling into a hole as a reaction to ridicule also never made anyone rich or famous.
Any intelligent person knows these facts.

Icke obviously is not the kind of person who cares about public opinion. He is not afraid to be ridiculed or write about controversial things.

Some might see him as a man who was hit in the head too many times but you need to admit anyone who can become famous in the face of ridicule has stamina and courage to face the critics without crumbling for shame of his own foolishness or hiding in some hole to escape the ridicule.

Being highly paid for foolishness is not so stupid if money is your goal.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/27/2015 12:36:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
page 14
"When you feel the rain"
This section reminded me of the bible story of Moses being called up the mountain.

It is about a man lost in his own imagination or some self induced hypnotic trance.

His own words " I returned to my conscious mind every now and again, but mostly I was "out there" ...." implies he was in a different mind set to "normal" at the time of the "experience".

Icke explains his experience as ......" being "locked-in" to "Mission Control" in some other dimension or dimensions of reality, and something known as the "kundalini" was also being activated. "

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently the "Kundalini" refers to inner energy which "awakens" the mind.
This "energy" can have various affects on people and cause them to believe they have been enlightened in some way. It can apparently result in genius and insanity.
It seems many people have the same sort of experiences.

Is there a scientific explanation for why the brain or "inner energy" causes people to think and experience what they do, like random thoughts, inspirations or motivations for no apparent reason?
Some religious people seem to equate it with a "born again" type experience where they feel enlightened and see the world in a totally different way than they did before the experience.

Why are some more prone to such "experiences" than others?

Oscar Levant ..."There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/27/2015 6:20:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Page 19
"World of Bullocks"

The writer implies the world is insane, batty, crazy, off their rockers, etc.
Ironically he then goes on to say it is not "You" ( the reader), implying the insane people are everyone except you and me.
I presume Icke includes himself in those who are not insane.

The amusing thing is that if the world is indeed all insane, that makes us ALL insane since we are the people who make up the world of insane humans.
If we know we are insane are we still insane?

If we need an army of psychiatrists to sort out the insanity and those psychiatrists are in need of help from their own profession, we have insane people trying to help insane people become sane. That is no different to the blind leading the blind.

I found this chapter to be highly ironic and amusing. I am sure anyone who can manage to be objective about it will see the funny side and laugh at the irony.

When an insane world claims to be sane, they are calling their own insanity sanity and claiming it is normal.

It reminds me of the proverb " Physician heal thyself "
If the insane cannot heal themselves, what hope do they have of healing anyone else?
The same applies to the sane. If they cannot heal themselves, who will heal them?

If the world is indeed insane, none of us will become sane if we never admit our own insanity in the first place.

If humans are born insane then insanity must be a natural and normal thing so why try to change it?
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/27/2015 8:10:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/25/2015 10:04:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
This thread is basically to discuss the very entertaining book by David Icke
"The Perception deception"
If you have not read the book, please refrain from commenting till you have actually read it or at least have started reading it.
Here is a link to the free book for you to download...
http://archonmatrix.com...

Drew made me aware of the book on
http://www.debate.org...

Read posts #14-22

Drew also started a thread about it on the science forum where the comments are basically just ridiculing the Author.
http://www.debate.org...

Anyway, I do not think the book is about science at all. To me it is a mixture of many different things combined into one book.

Hopefully we can discuss the ideas, concepts and implications in the book rather than just ridicule its author.

Those who are interested in this topic, please take time to at least read the first two chapters before making any comments.

Remember that our opinions have a LOT to do with our own perceptions.

I will start with the Pre- Story, page 11 on the pdf file.

Stay tuned to the next post.
To Be Continued.......

Ah...so ya started your own Icke Thread, eh?

I gotta tell you, though. Well, a couple of things, really. My opinions only, of course.

1--You probably will not get too many responses on this Forum, i.e. "Entertainment." Even if you really believe that is all Icke's Theories are. (As do I!).

Because the sort of people who even know who Icke is, or are even semi-knowledgeable about his theories don't go here that much. From what I have seen its mostly kids talking about movies and music and games and celebs.
Your science/politics/Conspiracy Theory peeps are more likely to be cruising around those Forums.

2--You will not find too many "out of the box" or 'Free Thinkers" on DDO. Rather the clientele seems to be on the far edges of the "Belief" Spectrum--either right or left. That is: your "Can't-tell-then-anything" religious zealots and your hard line "If I cannot hold it in my hand it is not real and has no chance to EVER be real" hard line skeptics. Folks like your truly with a keen grasp of science AND an open mind for new ideas are few and far between, my dear.

Oh...I guess I have a "3" too! It is: Asking some of these guys to actually read something before lambasting it can also be an exercise in futility. Not ALL, mind you, but some. I have found the biggest mouths (fastest fingers? LOL) usually also posses the least reading and research skills.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/28/2015 12:44:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/27/2015 8:10:18 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/25/2015 10:04:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
This thread is basically to discuss the very entertaining book by David Icke
"The Perception deception"
If you have not read the book, please refrain from commenting till you have actually read it or at least have started reading it.
Here is a link to the free book for you to download...
http://archonmatrix.com...

Ah...so ya started your own Icke Thread, eh?

Obviously with rules to read the book first. Anyone disobeying the rules will be drawn and quartered. ;-)

I gotta tell you, though. Well, a couple of things, really. My opinions only, of course.

1--You probably will not get too many responses on this Forum, i.e. "Entertainment." Even if you really believe that is all Icke's Theories are. (As do I!).

We don't need responses from people who have not read the book.

Because the sort of people who even know who Icke is, or are even semi-knowledgeable about his theories don't go here that much. From what I have seen its mostly kids talking about movies and music and games and celebs.
Your science/politics/Conspiracy Theory peeps are more likely to be cruising around those Forums.

Obviously the peeps take their science, politics, religions, etc far too seriously.
No matter how much they are informed that those things are all just entertainment, they all believe only what they want to believe anyway.

2--You will not find too many "out of the box" or 'Free Thinkers" on DDO. Rather the clientele seems to be on the far edges of the "Belief" Spectrum--either right or left. That is: your "Can't-tell-then-anything" religious zealots and your hard line "If I cannot hold it in my hand it is not real and has no chance to EVER be real" hard line skeptics. Folks like your truly with a keen grasp of science AND an open mind for new ideas are few and far between, my dear.

Don't all the insane believe they have an open mind and everyone else has a closed mind? :-)
All insane people live in their own padded cells and want to convert the outsiders to fit into their box with them.

Oh...I guess I have a "3" too! It is: Asking some of these guys to actually read something before lambasting it can also be an exercise in futility. Not ALL, mind you, but some. I have found the biggest mouths (fastest fingers? LOL) usually also posses the least reading and research skills.

No harm in trying.
Maybe some will actually benefit from their own curiosity.
Those who are not curious enough to look will never discover anything.

So, do you think the world is insane or does insanity only affect everyone except you and Icke and few chosen ones ? ;-)
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/28/2015 3:22:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/28/2015 12:44:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/27/2015 8:10:18 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/25/2015 10:04:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
This thread is basically to discuss the very entertaining book by David Icke
"The Perception deception"
If you have not read the book, please refrain from commenting till you have actually read it or at least have started reading it.
Here is a link to the free book for you to download...
http://archonmatrix.com...

Ah...so ya started your own Icke Thread, eh?

Obviously with rules to read the book first. Anyone disobeying the rules will be drawn and quartered. ;-)

I gotta tell you, though. Well, a couple of things, really. My opinions only, of course.

1--You probably will not get too many responses on this Forum, i.e. "Entertainment." Even if you really believe that is all Icke's Theories are. (As do I!).

We don't need responses from people who have not read the book.

Because the sort of people who even know who Icke is, or are even semi-knowledgeable about his theories don't go here that much. From what I have seen its mostly kids talking about movies and music and games and celebs.
Your science/politics/Conspiracy Theory peeps are more likely to be cruising around those Forums.

Obviously the peeps take their science, politics, religions, etc far too seriously.
No matter how much they are informed that those things are all just entertainment, they all believe only what they want to believe anyway.

2--You will not find too many "out of the box" or 'Free Thinkers" on DDO. Rather the clientele seems to be on the far edges of the "Belief" Spectrum--either right or left. That is: your "Can't-tell-then-anything" religious zealots and your hard line "If I cannot hold it in my hand it is not real and has no chance to EVER be real" hard line skeptics. Folks like your truly with a keen grasp of science AND an open mind for new ideas are few and far between, my dear.

Don't all the insane believe they have an open mind and everyone else has a closed mind? :-)
All insane people live in their own padded cells and want to convert the outsiders to fit into their box with them.


Oh...I guess I have a "3" too! It is: Asking some of these guys to actually read something before lambasting it can also be an exercise in futility. Not ALL, mind you, but some. I have found the biggest mouths (fastest fingers? LOL) usually also posses the least reading and research skills.

No harm in trying.
Maybe some will actually benefit from their own curiosity.
Those who are not curious enough to look will never discover anything.

So, do you think the world is insane or does insanity only affect everyone except you and Icke and few chosen ones ? ;-)

Are you tossing me into the company of the likes Mr. Icke?

And no---generally speaking, the World is not insane. Not in a clinical sense, anyway. But of course insanity does exist.

In spades.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/28/2015 7:21:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/28/2015 3:22:37 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/28/2015 12:44:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/27/2015 8:10:18 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Oh...I guess I have a "3" too! It is: Asking some of these guys to actually read something before lambasting it can also be an exercise in futility. Not ALL, mind you, but some. I have found the biggest mouths (fastest fingers? LOL) usually also posses the least reading and research skills.

No harm in trying.
Maybe some will actually benefit from their own curiosity.
Those who are not curious enough to look will never discover anything.

So, do you think the world is insane or does insanity only affect everyone except you and Icke and few chosen ones ? ;-)

Are you tossing me into the company of the likes Mr. Icke?

I am asking you what company you "toss" yourself and others into?
Where do you place yourself when it comes to Ickes theory of the world being clinically insane?
Do you place yourself on the sane or insane side?
Where do you think Icke places himself? ...... Sane or insane?
Where do you place him?
Where do you place me?
How do you determine whether people are sane or insane?
Does it depend on how much they agree or disagree with you?

And no---generally speaking, the World is not insane. Not in a clinical sense, anyway. But of course insanity does exist.

In spades.

Icke clearly states he believes the world is clinically insane. Page 19 "The world is clinically insane and we urgently need to understand this simple truth."

http://www.urbandictionary.com...

https://www.psychologytoday.com...

When the insane believe they are sane, does their belief in their own sanity make them sane?
Do any sane people believe they are insane?
Do any "normal" people believe they are abnormal?

What is "normal" to an insane person?

Do fools believe they are wise?
Do the wise believe they are fools?

Can people be one without being the other as well?
How many one sided people exist as they deny their own opposite side?