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Rappers

wush
Posts: 330
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10/23/2010 2:58:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
who do you think is the greatest rapper of all time?
here's my 3 favourite rappers
1.EMINEM
2.Marshall Mathers
3.Slim Shady
BE HAPPY!! =D
you are beautiful, don't let anyone tell you you're not
you're 100X more beautiful when you smile, not that you need it
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/24/2010 6:14:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/23/2010 2:58:57 AM, wush wrote:
who do you think is the greatest rapper of all time?

Define "greatest".
In the meantime...

My favourite:
1. Kool Keith (Ultramagnetic Mcs)
2. Krs-one
3. Pharoah Monche
4. Black Thought (The Roots)
5. MF Doom

Most globally influential:
1. Tupac
2. Eminem
3. Biggie Smalls
4. Jay-Z
5. Nas

Most lyrical:
1. Kool G Rap
2. Big L
3. Pharoah Monche
4. Talib Kweli
5. Big Pun

Best voice:
1. Rakim
2. Method Man
3. Q-Tip
4. Busta Rhymes
5. Biggie
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/25/2010 1:18:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I disagree a bit with feverish's list. For instance I don't think Kool Keith is among the best rappers at all; most people just like to boast their preference for the underground by name dropping him (though I know that's not the case with feves). I think his beats and music are among the best but I'm not a huge fan of his lyrics or voice, or rather, I think there are some better.

I also think Big Pun is very underrated as a lyricist. Feves put him at 5, and I guess that's okay because Pun died before he could really do a lot of stuff. However from what he did put out, I think he is undoubtedly among the best and I'd put him a bit higher on my lyrical list. I also think Eminem is underrated in this department specifically because he's so mainstream and hip hop fans have been jaded to rebel against it.

Biggie's got the best voice and he's my favorite :P

In my humble opinion, some of the greatest rappers are Rakim, Talib Kweli and of course The Notorious BIG... but there are a ton of greats including but not limited to those plus Big Pun, Black Thought (The Roots in general are fantastic), and I also like Dead Prez and other political hip hop groups like The Coup.
President of DDO
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/25/2010 1:27:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
- Vinnie Paz
- Canibus
- Immortal Technique
- Snoop Dogg
- Tech N9ne
- Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/25/2010 1:30:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Forgot to include Talib Kweli and Mos Def.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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10/25/2010 1:35:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Wierd Al Yankovich
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/25/2010 4:14:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/25/2010 1:18:40 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I disagree a bit with feverish's list.

The first list was completely biased to my own personal tastes. the others, I was trying to be a bit more objective but still just giving my own subjective opinion.

For instance I don't think Kool Keith is among the best rappers at all

Yeah if I'm honest, I'd have a hard time arguing that Keith was technically superior to a lot of people's favourite rappers (although I might still give it a go). You can't underestimate the guy's influence on a lot of MCs though, check Black Thought's homage on What They Do: "You use the simple back and forth, the same old rhythm that's plain, my rap'll ultramagnetise your brain" the first part being lifted straight from Keith on Ultra-mag's Ego Trippin'.

Critical Beatdown is one of the best albums of all time and truly changed the way people rapped, in terms of rhythm patterns and abstract lyrical content. The production from Ced Gee was also revolutionary and both PE and Kane used samples that had just been used by Ultramag on singles that came out soon afterward (Rebel Without A Pause and Wrath Of Kane).

Keith was perhaps the first outrageous crazy-guy rapper and could be seen as a direct precursor to the stage persona that helped make Em so successful, he was using different microphone personas long before Mr Mathers. The intellectual and scientifically intense style he got into around his Dr Octagon period is also strongly echoed by Geo's favourite Canibus.

Basically, however I justify it, Kool Keith (especially with Ultra on Critical Beatdown) is my favourite sh!t and a massive inspiration to me and to a lot of others.


I also think Big Pun is very underrated as a lyricist. Feves put him at 5, and I guess that's okay because Pun died before he could really do a lot of stuff. However from what he did put out, I think he is undoubtedly among the best and I'd put him a bit higher on my lyrical list.

Big Pun was great but I wouldn't say underrated as I think he is very highly rated by a lot of people despite his limited output. I think Big L is the most under-rated dead MC.

I also think Eminem is underrated in this department specifically because he's so mainstream and hip hop fans have been jaded to rebel against it.

I would be the first to admit that Em is an incredibly talented lyricist and rapper generally, but when so many regard him as the GOAT, I certainly don't think he's under-rated.


In my humble opinion, some of the greatest rappers are Rakim, Talib Kweli The Notorious BIG... but there are a ton of greats including but not limited to those plus Big Pun, Black Thought (The Roots in general are fantastic), Dead Prez

Yes.

At 10/25/2010 1:27:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
- Immortal Technique
- Forgot to include Talib Kweli and Mos Def.
Yes.

- Vinnie Paz
- Canibus
- Tech N9ne
All good but not great imo.

- Snoop Dogg
- Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
meh.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/26/2010 8:15:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Feverish - So many people regard Eminem as the GOAT because they don't know any better and haven't heard any better. When Eminem is all you know or he's being compared to Soulja Boy because that's the rap you hear on the radio, then of course he's going to appear the best to people who don't really seek out non-mainstream hip-hop. When I say he's underrated I'm specifically talking about hip hop fans who think they'll only sound like legit connoisseurs if they avoid mentioning him because of his popularity and the fact that so many people actually think he's the GOAT.

I don't really like most of the people Geo mentioned. Also feverish your regard for KK is different because you appreciate different things in a rapper, for instance persona and beats (or innovation in general) because of your background and being a performer yourself. However for me lyrics and flow have been among the most important in establishing my faves in addition of course to voice, stage presence, delivery and content. As a musician I can appreciate the music but ultimately I don't know enough about sampling or DJing to have an educated opinion on who's the best in that regard -- just my amateur preference.

Most overrated in my opinion: Jay Z. Seriously.

(Snoop is up there)

But seriously for those who don't know them - check out The Coup. In my humble opinion they're better than Dead Prez (and I'm a fan of DP).
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/26/2010 8:31:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yo, I've seen child blossom to man - some whithered and turned to murderers, led astray by the liars, death glorifiers observing us. Watching us close, marketing host is here to purchase, purposely overtaxing the earnings. Nervous, burning down the churches. They're scared of us, rather beware than dare to trust. Throw us in jail, million dollar bail, left there to rust. Let's call in order, give ourselves a chance to enhance broader. Advance to where minorities are the majority voter. Holding my own, I'm living alone in this cold world. My sister just bought a home without a loan, you go girl! She's an exception, some people can leap to the impression. See me myself, I start flippin and fall victim to deep depression. I'm stressin the issue here, so we can cross the fiscal year. Tired of gettin fired and hired as a pistol-eer. There's no longevity living off negativity. Fvck it - I'd rather sell reefer than do pizza delivery. That's how the city be, everybody gettin they're hustle on. Judge singing Death Penalty like it's his favorite fvcking song. Word is bond, taking my life you know they're loving it. God 'F' the government and it's fvcking capital punishment.

RIP Big Pun come baaaaccck toooo meeeee :(
President of DDO
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/26/2010 9:04:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 8:15:44 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Feverish - So many people regard Eminem as the GOAT because they don't know any better and haven't heard any better. When Eminem is all you know or he's being compared to Soulja Boy because that's the rap you hear on the radio, then of course he's going to appear the best to people who don't really seek out non-mainstream hip-hop. When I say he's underrated I'm specifically talking about hip hop fans who think they'll only sound like legit connoisseurs if they avoid mentioning him because of his popularity and the fact that so many people actually think he's the GOAT.

I don't really like most of the people Geo mentioned. Also feverish your regard for KK is different because you appreciate different things in a rapper, for instance persona and beats (or innovation in general) because of your background and being a performer yourself. However for me lyrics and flow have been among the most important in establishing my faves in addition of course to voice, stage presence, delivery and content. As a musician I can appreciate the music but ultimately I don't know enough about sampling or DJing to have an educated opinion on who's the best in that regard -- just my amateur preference.

Most overrated in my opinion: Jay Z. Seriously.

(Snoop is up there)

But seriously for those who don't know them - check out The Coup. In my humble opinion they're better than Dead Prez (and I'm a fan of DP).

Ah, you listen to The Coup?! Man, I'm not a huge fan of rap but... they're fvcking awesome. Nice! :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/26/2010 10:11:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
DMX
50cent
Xzibit

+lil' Jon must die.

Though I'm not very found of rap music anymore, out of modern rap artists these are the best.

Jay-Z isn't THAT bad.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/26/2010 12:14:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 8:15:44 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Feverish - So many people regard Eminem as the GOAT because they don't know any better and haven't heard any better. When Eminem is all you know or he's being compared to Soulja Boy because that's the rap you hear on the radio, then of course he's going to appear the best to people who don't really seek out non-mainstream hip-hop. When I say he's underrated I'm specifically talking about hip hop fans who think they'll only sound like legit connoisseurs if they avoid mentioning him because of his popularity and the fact that so many people actually think he's the GOAT.

Yeah, you may have a point. Some underground heads probably resent his mainstream appeal, but anyone who knows still gives him props, particularly for his earlier work. This recent blog article is a good example of how he is viewed by many. http://www.unkut.com...

I don't really like most of the people Geo mentioned. Also feverish your regard for KK is different because you appreciate different things in a rapper, for instance persona and beats (or innovation in general) because of your background and being a performer yourself. However for me lyrics and flow have been among the most important in establishing my faves in addition of course to voice, stage presence, delivery and content. As a musician I can appreciate the music but ultimately I don't know enough about sampling or DJing to have an educated opinion on who's the best in that regard -- just my amateur preference.

I do value innovation highly and a lot of it is probably just nostalgia for when I first connected with certain tunes, but Keith was innovative and generally awesome in terms of flow and lyrics. When most Old School rappers delivered their rhymes with very regular meter and chant-like on the beat precision, Ultramag, led by Keith, helped develop the craze for "off-beat" rhyming and a much more loose and creative approach to flow. You can hear another Keith, Guru (RIP), copying a simplistic version of Keith's flow on Travellin At The Speed Of Thought on Gangstarr's Cause And Effect. A great example of early Kool Keith flowing at his best, is the tune Poppa Large (see video).

Lyrically, he's just incredibly versatile, from abstract stream of consciousness and raw battle lyrics with Ultra, to scientifical wordplay and extended metaphors as Dr Octagon and crazy humourous verbal pornography on Sex Styles.

As for voice, he has an awesome and totally distinctive voice, with the same kind of high tone as Eminem that "cuts well to tape" in audio terms, meaning it sits perfectly in the frequency range just above a snare drum. His voice (and lyrics) have been sampled heavily, in other hip hop and also loads in other genres like UK rave. Liam Howlett of the Prodigy sites Keith as his favourite rapper and it is his voice that underpins dance anthems like Outer Space and Smack My B!tch Up, as well as rapping on Diesel Power with them.

But seriously for those who don't know them - check out The Coup. In my humble opinion they're better than Dead Prez (and I'm a fan of DP).

Have to confess to being pretty uneducated on The Coup. I have heard of them before, but they're not particularly well known over here. Just been listening to some and definitely feeling their stuff, although maybe more the music and the message than the actual rapping.

At 10/26/2010 10:11:01 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
DMX
No.
50cent
No.
Xzibit
His early stuff on LOUD is pretty good, Paparazzi etc. Not so sure about now.

+lil' Jon must die.

Agreed.

Though I'm not very found of rap music anymore, out of modern rap artists these are the best.

Seems like you like the thug, growler kind of MC. What older stuff do you like?

Jay-Z isn't THAT bad.

Yeah, the thing that bugs me with him is that he seems to dumb himself down to sell records when he actually ridiculously talented. His freestyle sessions with Big L and his first verse on wax, Original Flavor's Can I Get Open are great. He can still make decent tunes now, like Death Of Autotune but it seems he'd rather make sh!te.
Zetsubou
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10/26/2010 12:58:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 12:14:27 PM, feverish wrote:
At 10/26/2010 10:11:01 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
DMX
No.
The Great Depression is a okay album.
50cent
No.
He's generally a pretty cool guy imo.
"Get Rich or Die Tryin" is the best rap album after Encore imo. 50 cents quality of work has decreased with age, his focus I think has become money.
Xzibit
His early stuff on LOUD is pretty good, Paparazzi etc. Not so sure about now.
Kinda regret this choice tbh.

+lil' Jon must die.

Agreed.

Though I'm not very found of rap music anymore, out of modern rap artists these are the best.

Seems like you like the thug, growler kind of MC. What older stuff do you like?
Not at all. The thug/"nigga" mentality is the main reason I dislike rap.

Jay-Z isn't THAT bad.

Yeah, the thing that bugs me with him is that he seems to dumb himself down to sell records when he actually ridiculously talented. His freestyle sessions with Big L and his first verse on wax, Original Flavor's Can I Get Open are great. He can still make decent tunes now, like Death Of Autotune but it seems he'd rather make sh!te.
I own, or rather, my sister owns the albums In My Lifetime, Hard Knock Life and Life and Times of S Carter. I listened to some tracks and seemed to appreciate it more than the crap he sprouted normally.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/26/2010 1:23:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 12:58:13 PM, Zetsubou wrote:

"Get Rich or Die Tryin" is the best rap album after Encore imo. 50 cents quality of work has decreased with age, his focus I think has become money.

The title of that album as well as the title of his first unreleased album, Power Of The Dollar should help demonstrate that his focus has always been money. Plus I just find him incoherent, mostly unimaginative and generally annoying.

DMX is similarly incoherent, though he shouts and barks where 50 mumbles and groans.

Though I'm not very found of rap music anymore, out of modern rap artists these are the best.

Seems like you like the thug, growler kind of MC. What older stuff do you like?
Not at all. The thug/"nigga" mentality is the main reason I dislike rap.

Eh? Fiddy and DMX both epitomise that mentality to me. 50 got famous off his How To Rob tune and DMX guested on Tupac's Thug For Life.
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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10/26/2010 1:34:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/25/2010 1:35:27 PM, Korashk wrote:
Wierd Al Yankovich

this.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/26/2010 6:06:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why the hate on Lil Jon? I don't think people understand the role of mainstream hip hop. If I'm in the car drivin, at house party, or in the club I'm gonna wanna hear some lil Jon to get pumped up or just have fun.

I used to be one of those mainstream haters and simply hated any artist on the radio until I realized that was irrational. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I think the only warranted gripe is that there isn't a variety played on the radio and so it gets diluted with too much mainstream.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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10/26/2010 6:14:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 6:06:12 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why the hate on Lil Jon? I don't think people understand the role of mainstream hip hop. If I'm in the car drivin, at house party, or in the club I'm gonna wanna hear some lil Jon to get pumped up or just have fun.


I used to be one of those mainstream haters and simply hated any artist on the radio until I realized that was irrational. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I think the only warranted gripe is that there isn't a variety played on the radio and so it gets diluted with too much mainstream.

I dislike Lil John because he tends to ruin an otherwise good song with his incessant screaming. I can understand if someone uses it to get pumped, but it's just a turn-off for me. It's like someone crazy guy ran into the studio from off the street and interrupted the song, yelling like a maniac. =P
Zetsubou
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10/27/2010 12:19:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 6:06:12 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why the hate on Lil Jon? I don't think people understand the role of mainstream hip hop. If I'm in the car drivin, at house party, or in the club I'm gonna wanna hear some lil Jon to get pumped up or just have fun.


I used to be one of those mainstream haters and simply hated any artist on the radio until I realized that was irrational. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I think the only warranted gripe is that there isn't a variety played on the radio and so it gets diluted with too much mainstream.

His albums are all like this.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/28/2010 2:47:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 12:14:27 PM, feverish wrote:
Yeah, the thing that bugs me with him [Jay Z] is that he seems to dumb himself down to sell records when he actually ridiculously talented...

"I dumb down for my audience, and double my dollars. They criticize me for it, yet they all yell "Holla." If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli, truthfully..."

I don't remember the rest :p
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/28/2010 2:58:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/26/2010 6:06:12 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why the hate on Lil Jon? I don't think people understand the role of mainstream hip hop. If I'm in the car drivin, at house party, or in the club I'm gonna wanna hear some lil Jon to get pumped up or just have fun.

I love Kanye West (if you wanna talk about dancing - you shoulda seen me the summer Stronger came out lol... I'm a Daft Punk fan too, so yeah) but I'm not gonna say he's the best or even my favorite. It's one thing to diss mainstream stuff JUST because it's mainstream (which is stupid as hell) but it's another to sit there and compare your average everyday rapper to hip hop artists who go beyond simplicity. As Macklemore said - "All you need is a program and you can go and make hip-hop." Even with Kanye, I think he's kind of a sucky rapper to tell you the truth, but I love his music! Same with Lil Wayne. He's catchy, most of his songs are hilarious, and at the end of the day I have no problem blasting that sh!t in the car because it's cute and it's fun. However that's like saying Justin Timberlake is the best just because he's the most popular and fun. Compared to Beethoven he ain't sh!t, amirite? That said Lil Jon has got to be among the MOST annoying performers out there, imo. I'm all about Lady Gaga :D I can't think of anyone mainstream more fun to dance to at a club after a few drinks.
President of DDO
wush
Posts: 330
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10/30/2010 11:36:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 2:58:22 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/26/2010 6:06:12 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why the hate on Lil Jon? I don't think people understand the role of mainstream hip hop. If I'm in the car drivin, at house party, or in the club I'm gonna wanna hear some lil Jon to get pumped up or just have fun.

I love Kanye West (if you wanna talk about dancing - you shoulda seen me the summer Stronger came out lol... I'm a Daft Punk fan too, so yeah) but I'm not gonna say he's the best or even my favorite. It's one thing to diss mainstream stuff JUST because it's mainstream (which is stupid as hell) but it's another to sit there and compare your average everyday rapper to hip hop artists who go beyond simplicity. As Macklemore said - "All you need is a program and you can go and make hip-hop." Even with Kanye, I think he's kind of a sucky rapper to tell you the truth, but I love his music! Same with Lil Wayne. He's catchy, most of his songs are hilarious, and at the end of the day I have no problem blasting that sh!t in the car because it's cute and it's fun. However that's like saying Justin Timberlake is the best just because he's the most popular and fun. Compared to Beethoven he ain't sh!t, amirite? That said Lil Jon has got to be among the MOST annoying performers out there, imo. I'm all about Lady Gaga :D I can't think of anyone mainstream more fun to dance to at a club after a few drinks.

i really don't like kanye west's voice. it's so annoying. and most of his songs are meaningless crap. I like eminem cause he fills all the criteria for a good rapper
he's got skill and he can rap really good when he wants to
he is pretty good lyric wise
he can do serious songs AND funny songs
he doesn't ruin the songs he features in like other rappers[lil jon, lil wayne, ets]
he just makes awesome songs
BE HAPPY!! =D
you are beautiful, don't let anyone tell you you're not
you're 100X more beautiful when you smile, not that you need it
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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11/2/2010 5:18:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Few more lists for fun.

Best female MCs:
1. Jean Grae
2. Lauryn Hill
3. MC Lyte
4. Queen Latifah
5. Bahamadia

Best producer/MCs: (i.e. those who excel at both)
1. Lord Finesse
2. Diamond D
3. J Dilla (RIP)
4. Large Professor
5. MF Doom

Best white MCs:
1. El-P
2. RA the rugged man
3. Aesop Rock
4. Cappo
5. Ill Bill
6. Celph-titled
7. Skinnyman
8. Edan
9. Apathy
10. Jehst
11. Copywright
12. Sage Francis
13. MC Serch
14. Esoteric
15. Eminem*

I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
* Joke! I'd put him nearer the top really, but not no.1.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/2/2010 6:11:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
1) Lupe Fiasco
2) DJ Alligator
3) Kanye
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/2/2010 6:42:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
you put jean over l-boogie, feverish? i love me some jean but i don't know about that one...but, then again, jean has more material and most of it is great...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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11/2/2010 7:04:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 6:42:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
you put jean over l-boogie, feverish? i love me some jean but i don't know about that one...but, then again, jean has more material and most of it is great...

Subjectively definitely, I'm a big fan, trying to be objective, it's close but still yeah. Lauryn obviously has amazing pipes but I honestly think Jean has a better rapping voice and delivery, lyrically L is awesome but not quite on Jean's level and yeah, Lauryn wins on legacy but like you say Mz Grae has a lot more output.

In a battle? Jean would stomp her.