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# Logic Puzzle

 Posts: 12,314 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:42:28 PMPosted: 6 years agoAs per your rules, aren't they f*cked if the key they need is in the center?Or should I assume you've laid out the keys in a way that makes it possible and then work backwards?You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
 Posts: 25,980 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:44:44 PMPosted: 6 years agoWhat the heck is with point number 4?"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
 Posts: 11,793 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PMPosted: 6 years agothe speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..if he gets no key in return, then he asks for the sign language dude's key..so the speaker gets his key..the speaker then instructs the sign language dude to offer a trade with the seer.. to be accepted only if the seer still doesn't have his own key..they each get the key they need to free themselves?signature
 Posts: 9,512 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:52:05 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:44:44 PM, OreEle wrote:What the heck is with point number 4?Each pair of individuals gets to trade once, but each single individual must trade at least once. The rest is just a description of how the process works.
 Posts: 11,793 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:54:06 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PM, badger wrote:the speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..if he gets no key in return, then he asks for the sign language dude's key..so the speaker gets his key..the speaker then instructs the sign language dude to offer a trade with the seer.. to be accepted only if the seer still doesn't have his own key..they each get the key they need to free themselves?oh actually it was only the seer who hadn't his own key..well just add in that they seer and the sign language dude would have to trade once before anyone traded with the speaker.. the seer being the dude offered a trade by the speaker both times..signature
 Posts: 25,980 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:56:04 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PM, badger wrote:the speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..The seer doesn't know sign language.if he gets no key in return, then he asks for the sign language dude's key..so the speaker gets his key..the speaker then instructs the sign language dude to offer a trade with the seer.. to be accepted only if the seer still doesn't have his own key..they each get the key they need to free themselves?"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
 Posts: 11,793 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:57:22 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:56:04 PM, OreEle wrote:At 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PM, badger wrote:the speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..The seer doesn't know sign language.i never said he did. it'd be relayed in sign language by the hearer :Pif he gets no key in return, then he asks for the sign language dude's key..so the speaker gets his key..the speaker then instructs the sign language dude to offer a trade with the seer.. to be accepted only if the seer still doesn't have his own key..they each get the key they need to free themselves?signature
 Posts: 25,980 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:58:45 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:57:22 PM, badger wrote:At 5/12/2011 4:56:04 PM, OreEle wrote:At 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PM, badger wrote:the speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..The seer doesn't know sign language.i never said he did. it'd be relayed in sign language by the hearer :PSo the seer sees a bunch of signs that he doesn't know what they mean. And so has no idea what to do.if he gets no key in return, then he asks for the sign language dude's key..so the speaker gets his key..the speaker then instructs the sign language dude to offer a trade with the seer.. to be accepted only if the seer still doesn't have his own key..they each get the key they need to free themselves?"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
 Posts: 9,512 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 4:58:51 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 4:56:04 PM, OreEle wrote:At 5/12/2011 4:50:26 PM, badger wrote:the speaker starts it telling the seer to trade keys with him if the seer has the speaker's key.. this of course relayed by the sign language dude..The seer doesn't know sign language.Problem on my part, sorry. I was assuming that the seer knew sign language like the hearer knew English. Simply put, here's the chain of communication:Speaker-->HearerHearer-->SeerSeer-->NobodyNobody-->Speaker
 Posts: 9,512 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:00:42 PMPosted: 6 years agoAnd, like I said: you can't just say "here's how they determine who trades with whom": you also have to explain who has what key at the beginning.
 Posts: 25,980 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:01:16 PMPosted: 6 years agoSame solution, only 1 difference.The Speaker is required to understand the logic to figure this plan out. He then passes the plan onto the hearer (through vocal communication), who then passes the plan onto the seer (through sign language).Once all three are aware of the plan, they execute it as follows.Whosever key the seer has, he trades with them. This will give that person their key, and the seer will get the key and can check if it is his key or not. If it is not, then he trades with the other person to get his key. If it is his key, he can free himself, walk over to the last unfreed person, and help them free themselves (since they are blind, they may have trouble nagivating the lock and such), then he can trade after they are all free (to met the trade requirement), or he can trade first so that he has that person's key and can unlock them himself. Then he can grab the middle key and escort them all out of the room."Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
 Posts: 9,512 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:03:58 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 5:01:16 PM, OreEle wrote:Same solution, only 1 difference.The Speaker is required to understand the logic to figure this plan out. He then passes the plan onto the hearer (through vocal communication), who then passes the plan onto the seer (through sign language).Once all three are aware of the plan, they execute it as follows.Whosever key the seer has, he trades with them. This will give that person their key, and the seer will get the key and can check if it is his key or not. If it is not, then he trades with the other person to get his key. If it is his key, he can free himself, walk over to the last unfreed person, and help them free themselves (since they are blind, they may have trouble nagivating the lock and such), then he can trade after they are all free (to met the trade requirement), or he can trade first so that he has that person's key and can unlock them himself. Then he can grab the middle key and escort them all out of the room.They have to trade prior to freeing themselves. They can't use their keys and then, via technicality, trade after they unshackle.
 Posts: 25,980 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:04:53 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 5:01:16 PM, OreEle wrote:Same solution, only 1 difference.The Speaker is required to understand the logic to figure this plan out. He then passes the plan onto the hearer (through vocal communication), who then passes the plan onto the seer (through sign language).Once all three are aware of the plan, they execute it as follows.Whosever key the seer has, he trades with them. This will give that person their key, and the seer will get the key and can check if it is his key or not. If it is not, then he trades with the other person to get his key. If it is his key, he can free himself, walk over to the last unfreed person, and help them free themselves (since they are blind, they may have trouble nagivating the lock and such), then he can trade after they are all free (to met the trade requirement), or he can trade first so that he has that person's key and can unlock them himself. Then he can grab the middle key and escort them all out of the room.This works perfectly, since they are not required to all use their keys at the same time."Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
 Posts: 11,793 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:05:12 PMPosted: 6 years agothe puzzle's easy cody.. it's just the part that each of them must trade once that adds in a few tricky possible scenarios that i really couldn't be arse writing out the figurings for..signature
 Posts: 11,793 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:06:23 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 5:04:53 PM, OreEle wrote:At 5/12/2011 5:01:16 PM, OreEle wrote:Same solution, only 1 difference.The Speaker is required to understand the logic to figure this plan out. He then passes the plan onto the hearer (through vocal communication), who then passes the plan onto the seer (through sign language).Once all three are aware of the plan, they execute it as follows.Whosever key the seer has, he trades with them. This will give that person their key, and the seer will get the key and can check if it is his key or not. If it is not, then he trades with the other person to get his key. If it is his key, he can free himself, walk over to the last unfreed person, and help them free themselves (since they are blind, they may have trouble nagivating the lock and such), then he can trade after they are all free (to met the trade requirement), or he can trade first so that he has that person's key and can unlock them himself. Then he can grab the middle key and escort them all out of the room.This works perfectly, since they are not required to all use their keys at the same time.i was basing mine on that they had to.signature
 Posts: 9,512 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/12/2011 5:07:02 PMPosted: 6 years agoAt 5/12/2011 5:04:53 PM, OreEle wrote:At 5/12/2011 5:01:16 PM, OreEle wrote:Same solution, only 1 difference.The Speaker is required to understand the logic to figure this plan out. He then passes the plan onto the hearer (through vocal communication), who then passes the plan onto the seer (through sign language).Once all three are aware of the plan, they execute it as follows.Whosever key the seer has, he trades with them. This will give that person their key, and the seer will get the key and can check if it is his key or not. If it is not, then he trades with the other person to get his key. If it is his key, he can free himself, walk over to the last unfreed person, and help them free themselves (since they are blind, they may have trouble nagivating the lock and such), then he can trade after they are all free (to met the trade requirement), or he can trade first so that he has that person's key and can unlock them himself. Then he can grab the middle key and escort them all out of the room.This works perfectly, since they are not required to all use their keys at the same time.That assumes that all three of them hold shackle-keys.Additionally, I may modify the puzzle so that each pair not only gets a single trade, but must use it before trying to free themselves. Like I said, this is still in the beta-test stage. :P