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Beginner Mafia Day Phase 1

Ore_Ele
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7/28/2011 6:55:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hello everyone, this is the first DP of the beginner mafia games, otherwise known as the rookie games (I tend not to like the phrase "newb" games, since "newbs" has negative conotations to it).

Basic rules...

1) You may not copy and paste any part of your role PM, this includes questions asked in there. You may summarize, but not C/P. Violation results in either a warning, or mod kill, pending the degree of violation.

2) To vote, simply say "VTL [insertnamehere]" or "Vote [insertnamehere]. VTL = vote to lynch. All votes must be bolded. And you may unvote by saying "unvote."

3) As soon as a majority vote is reached (50% + 1), the day phase in automatically over and ends in a lynch.

4) The day phases will last about 48 hours. This particular day phase (DP1) will end Saturaday at 4 pm PST (7 pm EST).

Current Living List
Medic0506
Freedomsquared
Lickdafoot
MCDCBC
Man-is-good
Greyparrot
Fubar
Wierdman
ChristianM
Andromeda_Z
Deadleaves93

Hint: Basic mafia (with no roles) is classically more difficult, as the only option is to try to crack what others say to figure out if they are town, or mafia pretending to be town. This requires that you look at what people do and potential motives of their actions. In the next games there will be some roles that will allow you to do investigations so you can (do a degree) bypass the human element. Remember, anyone could be an ally, and anyone could be an enemy.

protip: The first person to post is mafia. Of course, this isn't true, but it's fun to accuse people for silly reasons to kick start the game.

have fun.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
freedomsquared
Posts: 450
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7/28/2011 7:12:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Although it's been awhile since I've played an online mafia game, I have played mafia in real life. In my experience, the first day phase almost always results in a no lynch. However, if I read the Mod's post correctly, there is no cop or other roles in this game, meaning there would be no point to the no lynch.

Assuming that is true, we need to get a discussion going to find the mafia among us.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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7/28/2011 7:27:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/28/2011 7:12:54 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
Although it's been awhile since I've played an online mafia game, I have played mafia in real life. In my experience, the first day phase almost always results in a no lynch.

It's the same here.
However, if I read the Mod's post correctly, there is no cop or other roles in this game, meaning there would be no point to the no lynch.

It would be detrimental, the mafia would get a kill in before we did.

Assuming that is true, we need to get a discussion going to find the mafia among us.

We do. Would you like to start with random votes, or would you rather discuss things? Either way, we'll have to try to interpret what people say.
freedomsquared
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7/28/2011 7:37:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd prefer not to do random votes, as there's no point in playing this game purely based on luck. We need people to start talking and then find someone reason to suspect them. Even if that reason is wrong, I think it's better to vote based on probable cause rather than random guessing.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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Andromeda_Z
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7/28/2011 7:48:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/28/2011 7:37:03 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
I'd prefer not to do random votes, as there's no point in playing this game purely based on luck. We need people to start talking and then find someone reason to suspect them. Even if that reason is wrong, I think it's better to vote based on probable cause rather than random guessing.

That's what I usually think, but there's considerable debate over whether or not to use RNG.
Lickdafoot
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7/29/2011 10:17:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
ok lets shake things up a bit. i hate to say this but it is the only logical deduction we could make at this time.

one of the experienced players is probably in the mafia. if we voted randomly, since the mafia is 1/3 of the players, it would be the same odds to vote for experienced vs new players, but it is much easier to narrow it down between three than nine. of course, the experienced players could probably help us the most, but they would also be helping the mafia.

i hope you all realize that i would have no need for saying that this early in the game if i was mafia. and likely whoever accuses me for saying it is probably mafia themselves because its an easily targeted but logical first step :)
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freedomsquared
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7/29/2011 11:52:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 10:17:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
ok lets shake things up a bit. i hate to say this but it is the only logical deduction we could make at this time.

one of the experienced players is probably in the mafia. if we voted randomly, since the mafia is 1/3 of the players, it would be the same odds to vote for experienced vs new players, but it is much easier to narrow it down between three than nine. of course, the experienced players could probably help us the most, but they would also be helping the mafia.

i hope you all realize that i would have no need for saying that this early in the game if i was mafia. and likely whoever accuses me for saying it is probably mafia themselves because its an easily targeted but logical first step :)

1. ChristianM
2. Andromeda_Z
3. Deadleaves93

These are the 3 experienced players in this game. I agree there is almost no doubt that one of these is mafia. I understand the argument that we don't want to lynch the experienced players (as they could help us out the most for finding the mafia), but I think I may have a solution.

Only 1 of these players has posted so far, and assuming that the other two do not start to contribute, we should lynch one of them. That way even though we may lose a good player, he was a player that hasn't contributed much so far. Assuming we don't want to lynch one of the EXP players, we could use this same logic for the rest of us. Lynch those who are inactive, that way we get a mafia in best-case scenario and at worst-case scenario we lose an unhelpful townie.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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MCDCBC
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7/29/2011 12:10:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 11:52:29 AM, freedomsquared wrote:
At 7/29/2011 10:17:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
ok lets shake things up a bit. i hate to say this but it is the only logical deduction we could make at this time.

one of the experienced players is probably in the mafia. if we voted randomly, since the mafia is 1/3 of the players, it would be the same odds to vote for experienced vs new players, but it is much easier to narrow it down between three than nine. of course, the experienced players could probably help us the most, but they would also be helping the mafia.

i hope you all realize that i would have no need for saying that this early in the game if i was mafia. and likely whoever accuses me for saying it is probably mafia themselves because its an easily targeted but logical first step :)

1. ChristianM
2. Andromeda_Z
3. Deadleaves93

These are the 3 experienced players in this game. I agree there is almost no doubt that one of these is mafia. I understand the argument that we don't want to lynch the experienced players (as they could help us out the most for finding the mafia), but I think I may have a solution.

Only 1 of these players has posted so far, and assuming that the other two do not start to contribute, we should lynch one of them. That way even though we may lose a good player, he was a player that hasn't contributed much so far. Assuming we don't want to lynch one of the EXP players, we could use this same logic for the rest of us. Lynch those who are inactive, that way we get a mafia in best-case scenario and at worst-case scenario we lose an unhelpful townie.

I would suggest lynching Deadleaves93 because he appears to be a rather inactive member of DDO as compared to ChristianM so he would not be of much help finding the mafia and as you have already pointed out Andromeda_z has posted so she will be of some use in this game either mafia or townie.
freedomsquared
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7/29/2011 12:19:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 12:10:25 PM, MCDCBC wrote:
At 7/29/2011 11:52:29 AM, freedomsquared wrote:

1. ChristianM
2. Andromeda_Z
3. Deadleaves93

These are the 3 experienced players in this game. I agree there is almost no doubt that one of these is mafia. I understand the argument that we don't want to lynch the experienced players (as they could help us out the most for finding the mafia), but I think I may have a solution.

Only 1 of these players has posted so far, and assuming that the other two do not start to contribute, we should lynch one of them. That way even though we may lose a good player, he was a player that hasn't contributed much so far. Assuming we don't want to lynch one of the EXP players, we could use this same logic for the rest of us. Lynch those who are inactive, that way we get a mafia in best-case scenario and at worst-case scenario we lose an unhelpful townie.

I would suggest lynching Deadleaves93 because he appears to be a rather inactive member of DDO as compared to ChristianM so he would not be of much help finding the mafia and as you have already pointed out Andromeda_z has posted so she will be of some use in this game either mafia or townie.

That seems like a pretty fair idea to me. Assuming we go for the experienced and inactive players, we can go for deadleaves. However, just in case, we should also figure out a list of inexperienced players. Also, we should hold off the lynching until at least tonight so the inactive players will have a chance to defend themselves.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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freedomsquared
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7/29/2011 12:26:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Actually, on second look, we should lynch one of these people:

1. Medic0506
2. freedomsquared
3. lickdafoot
4. MCDCBC
5. Man-is-good.
6. Greyparrot
7. fubar
8.wierdman

Although with the experienced players we have a 1/3 chance, we have a 3/8 chance (assuming the mod went as close as possible to a 1/3 ratio of mafia/town) if we go for inexperienced players. Because each one of us (who is actually innocent) can take themselves off this list, that makes the chance of each of us individually choosing a mafia to 3/7, almost 50%. If we only do inactive players, the list is:

1. Medic0506
5. Man-is-good.
6. Greyparrot
7. fubar
8.wierdman

Conversely, if the mod went for a 1/4 ratio or even more than that of mafia/town, then we would only have a 1/4 chance of guessing correctly out of the inexperienced players. So before we move forward, could one of the experienced members please tell us which ratio is more likely so we know where to look for lynching.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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Lickdafoot
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7/29/2011 12:39:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 12:26:36 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
Actually, on second look, we should lynch one of these people:

1. Medic0506
2. freedomsquared
3. lickdafoot
4. MCDCBC
5. Man-is-good.
6. Greyparrot
7. fubar
8.wierdman

Although with the experienced players we have a 1/3 chance, we have a 3/8 chance (assuming the mod went as close as possible to a 1/3 ratio of mafia/town) if we go for inexperienced players. Because each one of us (who is actually innocent) can take themselves off this list, that makes the chance of each of us individually choosing a mafia to 3/7, almost 50%. If we only do inactive players, the list is:

1. Medic0506
5. Man-is-good.
6. Greyparrot
7. fubar
8.wierdman

Conversely, if the mod went for a 1/4 ratio or even more than that of mafia/town, then we would only have a 1/4 chance of guessing correctly out of the inexperienced players. So before we move forward, could one of the experienced members please tell us which ratio is more likely so we know where to look for lynching.

yes, it would help to know how many mafia there actually are. however, just because someone has posted doesnt necessarily mean they are innocent so the odds don't get any better for eliminating inactive people. it is also more likely that the mafia will post plenty because their motive is to be convincing. townies are probably more reluctant to post because anything they said could sound suspicious.
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freedomsquared
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7/29/2011 2:49:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 12:42:26 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
^ meant to say odds wouldn't get better b eliminating active people from the list of potential people to lynch

I understand the odds aren't better, but if the worst-case scenario should happen (we lynch a townie), at least it is an inactive and unhelpful one.
But it's Norway, sort of the Canada of Europe."
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medic0506
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7/29/2011 4:45:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hey y'all, sorry for not being active..I had to take my son back to Indiana. We're on the way home now so I should be more active in a few hours.
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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7/29/2011 4:51:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
freedomsquared: There's usually 1/3 mafia, but there can be less or more depending on what the mod wants and whether or not there's a cult or third-party player. Since this is the first in a series of beginner games, there's almost definitely only town and mafia players, so I'd be fairly confident saying that 1/3 of the players are mafia.
Lickdafoot
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7/29/2011 5:29:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
freedomsqaured, i get what you were saying now about the odds, didn't read it properly at first.

so, it would be the best odds to vote for a newb (3/7) compared to experienced player (1/3) but might be harder for us to come to a consensus. your solution to pick someone who hasn't posted seems okay in theory at least.... although im a bit suspicious of it.

hopefully more people will have some input.
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Andromeda_Z
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7/29/2011 5:34:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 5:29:05 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
freedomsqaured, i get what you were saying now about the odds, didn't read it properly at first.

so, it would be the best odds to vote for a newb (3/7) compared to experienced player (1/3) but might be harder for us to come to a consensus. your solution to pick someone who hasn't posted seems okay in theory at least.... although im a bit suspicious of it.

hopefully more people will have some input.

I think it's a good strategy, especially when we don't know everyone's playing style yet. We still have to be careful not to accidentally kill too many townies (then the mafia will win), but we're going to have to kill someone. It may as well be someone who is definitely unproductive and possibly mafia. Do you have a preference on who we kill?
Ore_Ele
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7/29/2011 5:40:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
MOD NOTE:

Logic on Rails has replaced Deadleaves93 (hasn't been on in over 1 week).

PS, I am looking for replacements, as there are still people that have not confirmed their PMs.

Thank you,
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lickdafoot
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7/29/2011 5:52:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 5:34:41 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 5:29:05 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
freedomsqaured, i get what you were saying now about the odds, didn't read it properly at first.

so, it would be the best odds to vote for a newb (3/7) compared to experienced player (1/3) but might be harder for us to come to a consensus. your solution to pick someone who hasn't posted seems okay in theory at least.... although im a bit suspicious of it.

hopefully more people will have some input.

I think it's a good strategy, especially when we don't know everyone's playing style yet. We still have to be careful not to accidentally kill too many townies (then the mafia will win), but we're going to have to kill someone. It may as well be someone who is definitely unproductive and possibly mafia. Do you have a preference on who we kill?

hmm, well, not anyone in particular, but I'm a bit of a gambler so i would say one of you three experienced players.

bigger risk but also bigger reward if we got rid of the experienced mafia off the bat.

but i'm not saying its the only option. the other method would probably work well and be more comfortable for everyone.

if people seem to agree on this then the thing to do would be wait and see who is the latest to responding (or if more than one then the longest from being active) before dp is over, and vote them off.
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MCDCBC
Posts: 69
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7/29/2011 6:09:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 5:52:23 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 7/29/2011 5:34:41 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 5:29:05 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
freedomsqaured, i get what you were saying now about the odds, didn't read it properly at first.

so, it would be the best odds to vote for a newb (3/7) compared to experienced player (1/3) but might be harder for us to come to a consensus. your solution to pick someone who hasn't posted seems okay in theory at least.... although im a bit suspicious of it.

hopefully more people will have some input.

I think it's a good strategy, especially when we don't know everyone's playing style yet. We still have to be careful not to accidentally kill too many townies (then the mafia will win), but we're going to have to kill someone. It may as well be someone who is definitely unproductive and possibly mafia. Do you have a preference on who we kill?

hmm, well, not anyone in particular, but I'm a bit of a gambler so i would say one of you three experienced players.

bigger risk but also bigger reward if we got rid of the experienced mafia off the bat.

but i'm not saying its the only option. the other method would probably work well and be more comfortable for everyone.

if people seem to agree on this then the thing to do would be wait and see who is the latest to responding (or if more than one then the longest from being active) before dp is over, and vote them off.

I agree that we should lynch one of the more experienced players even though its a bigger risk or we should go with the least active player overall.
Logic_on_rails
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7/29/2011 6:21:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay people, I've taken over from Deadleaves. Now, in this game we won't really get too much help as there's no roles. This leaves us with a few (main) strategies:

1. Determine who the Mafia are by who they kill (ie. if player x dies and thought y was Mafia, y might well be Mafia)

2. Inactive players (following from 1, the Mafia may want to sit back and not make enemies)

3. Alliances - we happen to luckily kill a Mafia member and certain players seemed to always agree with them, the 'certain players' might well be Mafia.

Also, can players list their experience levels please. Reason being that I (having played quite a few games on DDO) surprisingly don't even know one of the 'experienced' players ChristianM. Also, I know that medic isn't a complete beginner for example - he nearly completed an entire set of beginner games and might have entered other mafia games. Ie. Medic isn't as much of a beginner as the other beginners.

Point being, knowing who has more experience in the beginners may be helpful, as OreEle likely tried to fairly balance the teams.

Finally, since Andromeda has posted and ChristianM hasn't, plus Andromeda has been mentioning helpful points (Ie. If you're Mafia you don't do that normally) , I've got my sights on ChristianM, or as much as one can in a game with no roles.

For the first DP, my recommended kill strategy is inactives. The main ways we'll determine someone is Mafia is by their actions. Obviously, a person with no actions is impossible to determine. Henceforth, if we have nothing good to go on this DP, I'd rather lynch an inactive.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Andromeda_Z
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7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.
Andromeda_Z
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7/29/2011 6:43:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.

He might still be mafia, but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the mafia PM, without posting in the game thread.
Logic_on_rails
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7/29/2011 7:20:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 6:43:20 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.

He might still be mafia, but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the mafia PM, without posting in the game thread.

Andromeda, have you played with ChristianM before? If so, is there anything that we should know? Also, he might just not be logging in but watching events. I've seen a few people do that before. Also, how experienced would you consider Medic?
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Andromeda_Z
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7/29/2011 8:13:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 7:20:50 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:43:20 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.

He might still be mafia, but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the mafia PM, without posting in the game thread.

Andromeda, have you played with ChristianM before?

I don't think so, I don't recognize him.
Also, he might just not be logging in but watching events. I've seen a few people do that before.

i don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before, but you could be right. How would he know what side he was on, though?
Also, how experienced would you consider Medic?

Not very, but he's not really a beginner. He's played two games, the second and third in the beginner games series if I remember right.
Man-is-good
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7/29/2011 8:17:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I want to be clear; I was inactive for five hours because of a preparatory exercise (summer school) every evening. In addition, my experience level with mafia games are very low [in fact, 'Beginner Mafia Day Phrase 1' is my first game with the mafia and townies], and I am not too certain that I can help in determining an effective strategy to lynch the mafia members.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
MCDCBC
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7/29/2011 8:27:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 8:17:39 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I want to be clear; I was inactive for five hours because of a preparatory exercise (summer school) every evening. In addition, my experience level with mafia games are very low [in fact, 'Beginner Mafia Day Phrase 1' is my first game with the mafia and townies], and I am not too certain that I can help in determining an effective strategy to lynch the mafia members.
This is my first game as well. I'm guessing that any ideas for a strategy would be helpful, so if you have any ideas or opinions don't hesitate to share them.
Logic_on_rails
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7/29/2011 8:38:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 8:13:25 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 7:20:50 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:43:20 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.

He might still be mafia, but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the mafia PM, without posting in the game thread.

Andromeda, have you played with ChristianM before?

I don't think so, I don't recognize him.

Then why do you think - 'but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the Mafia PM' ?

Also, he might just not be logging in but watching events. I've seen a few people do that before.

i don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before, but you could be right. How would he know what side he was on, though?

You don't 'see' them do it. How do I know the tactic - I've done it. Ie. If you're Mafia, you often need to read your PM when logging on and such to follow strategy and such. However, this takes time and sometimes people notice you taking minutes to post after logging on. This can be partially circumvented by reading the messages in your email if you get them sent to it, without logging on.

Also, how experienced would you consider Medic?

Not very, but he's not really a beginner. He's played two games, the second and third in the beginner games series if I remember right.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Andromeda_Z
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7/29/2011 8:43:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 8:38:26 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 7/29/2011 8:13:25 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 7:20:50 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:43:20 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 7/29/2011 6:37:05 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
I just checked and ChristianM hasn't been online in three days. The role PMs were sent out yesterday, so I don't think he's avoiding us because he's mafia.

He might still be mafia, but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the mafia PM, without posting in the game thread.

Andromeda, have you played with ChristianM before?

I don't think so, I don't recognize him.

Then why do you think - 'but I don't think he's being one of those types that only contributes to the Mafia PM' ?

He wasn't online, so I didn't think he couldn't even know if he was in a mafia PM. I was only referring to this game, not a general playing style. I could be wrong, anyway.

Also, he might just not be logging in but watching events. I've seen a few people do that before.

i don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before, but you could be right. How would he know what side he was on, though?

You don't 'see' them do it. How do I know the tactic - I've done it. Ie. If you're Mafia, you often need to read your PM when logging on and such to follow strategy and such. However, this takes time and sometimes people notice you taking minutes to post after logging on. This can be partially circumvented by reading the messages in your email if you get them sent to it, without logging on.

Okay, maybe he is doing that. It makes a lot more sense now, thanks for explaining.

Also, how experienced would you consider Medic?

Not very, but he's not really a beginner. He's played two games, the second and third in the beginner games series if I remember right.