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Soviet mafia recap

innomen
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9/6/2011 9:51:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Blackhawk: You are Nikolai Yezdov - aka the Bloody Dwarf, you enjoy killing, and you are part of the NKVD. You are unusually cruel in you work, you have an eye for cruelty and know who should join you in your efforts. You may try to recruit one additional mafia member at any time during the game, choose someone and the moderator will send out the message, "Greetings comrade, your party leaders send you a friendly greeting and asks if you would care to join them." - mafia recruiter.

Mongoose I: You are Nicolai Bulganin - you did what you had to do for the good of the party, but were a good administrator and were ambitious but mostly within the framework of bureaucracy. You rose as a result of others dying in Stalin's purges and you survive because you are competent and present yourself well. You aren't good guy, but you're not as bad as mafia. You have the power to lock up someone if you want, but it can also protect them as well. You may choose one person at least two nights (depending on the discretion of the mod) and block them from using their abilities, and also protect them from a kill. You win with the people. -
Jailer

Ore_Ele - You are Vyacheslav Molotov - You have held many posts, mostly in the area of diplomacy. You are devoted to Stalinism, although he isn't always so devoted to you. You serve the party and have no problem in ordering deaths, or dealing with the worst elements of both international, and domestic society. Each night you may change the results of an investigation or block an investigation. You with with the Kremlin cadre. Mafia Role Blocker/Framer

Medic I: You are Georgy Malenkov - you graduated high school during the revolution. You survived Stalin and became the premier under Khruschev. You are duplicitous and are a decent administrator. You've had close associations with Beria, which will always make you suspicious. We aren't sure about you, are you a good guy or a bad guy? You get to choose after the second DP if you would like to be mafia or town, as mafia you are goon, as town you are vanilla. You win with the side you choose. - Traitor

Danielle - You are Andre Gromyko - You are a loyal party man, and a diplomat. You are well educated and strongly believe in the value of science. You're well loved and you're a good guy. Each night phase you may choose, if you like, to recruit another townie as a Mason, but if you choose a mafia member you will not know. You win with the People. - MASON.

MOD KILL
This role was messed up from the beginning due to the posting accident. It makes no difference to either side at this point, and I've decided to kill the jester:

Stephen_Hawkins/Mongoose II - You are Dimitri Shostakovich - you are the most esteemed composer to the world, but play in fear of your master's dislike of your music. Many of your friends and family have been killed because of their affiliation to you. You're a good guy, but you have a critic that kills. You survive because you have talent, and as such you use your talents to get yourself lynched. YOu win when you are lynched - Jester.

Andromeda - You are Joseph Stalin - Paranoid leader of the Bolsheviks, master of all the purges and the architect of the totalitarian regime which is responsible for untold numbers of deaths of Russian and non-Russian alike. You are mafia godfather, the leader of the Kremlin cadre and you show up innocent upon investigation. You are a bad guy, and you win with the Kremlin.

Lickdafoot - You are Nikolai Bukharin - Marxist, Bolshevik, Revolutionary. You are outspoken against Stalin and you are clearly a person of ideals and you're a Trotskyite, a supporter of Lenin. You are one of Stalin's most prominent victims. You're mostly a good guy, and win with the people. You know what's going on, and as such you may choose one person each night and watch their activities. - Town Tracker.

Badger/ Matt - You are Anastas Mikoyan - you are a survivor and 'could walk through red square on a rainy day and not get wet' You're an old Bolshevik, but you have the unusual task of foreign trade. You lose favor with your boss, but never really fall completely out of favor. You cannot be killed in any one night phase that you are targeted, you win with the people. ONE SHOT BULLET PROOF

Medic II/ Marcuscato - You are Nikita Khrushchev - You're actually a good guy, you administrate well and are lyoal to the party. You live in fear as does everyone, but manage to stay well respected by most. You believe in the ideals of the party and you believe in the Russian people. You never know when to shut up though. You win with the town and it will take an extra lynch to kill you.

Tim Spin/Social - You are Hryhoriy Petrovsky- You are the son of a tailor and a laundress, and you started out looking for worker's rights and became an advocate of the Red Terror. You believed in a society run by terror, but eventually you realize it went to far. You had great faith in massacres and as such ytou may make one kill on behalf of the People each night. VIG - You win with the people.

Detectable Ninja - You are a great writer, an intellectual and are careful with the truth that you want to be known. You know the dangers of publishing the truth, and you are a treasure to your country, but are a danger to those with power. Each night you may check if someone is being targted, and for what, but not by whom. You win with the People, - Watcher

Logic on Rails- YOu are Wladyslaw Gomulka - you are the Communist leader of Poland, and have to balance the threat of the Russians, and the needs of your people. You are a hard line communist, but you are also a Pole, who loves his people. You go back and forth and don't even know who you should be loyal to anymore, so you just shoot at anyone that targets you at night. YOu witn with the People, but the People might not love you so much. Paranoid Gun owner

Freedom Squared - you are Leonid Brezhnev - You are loyal to the party, but play it safe. You lack imagination and find conmfort in the old ways of doing things. You are not withouth ambistion, but are more careful to preserve your current situation. You're pathetic and alcoholic, you are vanilla and win with the people, with the caveat of being a sleeper agent for the Kremlin without knowing it, and can be activated at any time.

Bluesteel - You are Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria - The henchman and leader of the NKVD. You made the secret police what it was, and the reputation was your creation. YOu are Stalin's right hand man. However you win when your boss Stalin is dead and the mafia win. Mafia Usurper. You are a very bad guy and you win with the mafia assuming your boss is dead. If the Kremlin wins and your boss Stalin is alive you lose.

Nerdykiller/Mongoose - You are Sergey Kirov, you are a loyal party member but was murdered. Your death has been called the cirme of the centure, and was a pretect for hundreds of thousands of deaths (if not millions). You're a good guy, too bad more people don't know about you or who you really are. It wasn't your fault that so many died because of your murder. - One shot bullet proof, you win with the People.

Quarter Exchange - YOu are Grigory Zinoviev- You are a Trotskyite and a revolutionary. YOu believe in the dream of Marx, and you died for that dream. YOu're an idealist, and a man who died for his beliefs. You speak out and you are not afraid of what you see as beibng wrong and what is true. You are one of those accused of Kirov's deaths. You're a good guy, but because tyou are committed to the truth you will be able to seek out the truth in other's lies. Lie detector, but one man's truth is another manys lie, and Soviet truth is the truth of the party. You win with the people.

More to follow.......
innomen
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9/6/2011 10:06:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Special note: Danielle did request to be a replacement, but in a PM i felt that i may have confirmed her posts where she had spelled out exactly what she thought was the mafia. I didn't think it fair, and it was my fault for having said something in a PM that could be construed as a confirmation. Although as she correctly pointed out, she really doesn't need affirmations.

The mod made a few errors.

To new mods:
1. Carefully weigh the balance of town/mafia not just with numbers but with the power of the roles you choose, and yes the strength of the players.
2. Use a spread sheet or flow chart. I was using my chicken scratch notes, and they were poorly organized and caused some problems.
3. Stay focused when you're doing it. It's very easy to mix up roles characters and players.
4. Wait until all night actions are in before sending out PM's.
5. Keep all chatter in the PM's down to bare necissity.

My first error happened in the first night phase. The mafia recruiter recruited the paranoid gun owner, and the vig targeted the recruiter. I took the sequence of events badly, in that i took the recruiter's request and sent the PM, then killed the recruiter from the vig, then realized that the recruiter would have been killed anyway. I let the vig make the kill and left the paranoid gun owner alive, but killed the recruiter.

I also found that i had underpowered the mafia, but had a couple ways around this with some sleepers that i kept under wraps with the vanillas. There was also a traitor. These roles i made up, or modified but they fit the story well.

Then there were problems with some real life issues that completely distracted me last week and the replacements that i got mixed up. The errors for the most part weren't very impactful.

I'd like to know if a game of this sort, a kind of history based game is interesting or too vague in playing. Was the game fun, or did it become tedious. HOw would it have been better, other than me not making mistakes.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/6/2011 10:28:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The mafia wasn't under-powered. The mafia should be at least 1/5 --1/3 of the players (depending on other factors). With 17 to start, 4--5 mafioso were probably appropriate. They had 4 mafioso to start with the potential for a 5th (the traitor), and had their recruiter not died so early they could have had 5--6. Also, had someone been recruited, that would have taken away a townie power (as that townie would now be mafia), AND, it would have been hard to know who the recruit was considering everyone would have already assumed that person town. The mafia had a role blocker and a framer option too, so yeah I think the numbers and role powers were fair. I also think the game was well balanced as PGOs tend to help the mafia as unknowing townies target them and die.

And for the record, inno, all you said was that I was "scary good at this game" but that didn't confirm I was right about bluesteel. Ore_Ele showed up guilty that day phase and blue called out Andro the next, so you could have just been referring to 2/3 :P But yes, that was annoying. I also agree that the #1 mod mistake is putting night actions through before all have been received, so n00bs be careful.
President of DDO
Lickdafoot
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9/6/2011 11:24:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
the game was lots of fun! i didn't know much about soviet history, but it was still easy to play.

on np 4, if vig didn't kill me, i would have known bluesteel was mafia. i tracked medic which was his target that night. had me fuming that if i wasn't killed, i would have spotted the last mafia. :P
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socialpinko
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9/6/2011 11:37:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thanks for the new modding tips intomen. Kudos to Bluesteel for playing the town like that. Up until the end, I thought you were the only living player that I could trust.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
innomen
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9/6/2011 11:49:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 11:37:21 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Thanks for the new modding tips innomen. Kudos to Bluesteel for playing the town like that. Up until the end, I thought you were the only living player that I could trust.

I don't know why you targeted the paranoid gun owner.

Also Bluesteel was quite a masterful bastid in the PM's, although i think that he made a couple minor errors.

On my end it was fun to play a game based on something that i have great interest in. I'd like to try another history based mafia again.
innomen
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9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 11:53:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
go for it! you're an awesome mod...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/6/2011 12:53:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.

I would say it's not fair to restrict better players from being replacements, because then what is the incentive to be good? It's almost penalization. Also who gets to determine who is good and who is not? What if someone is really good in one game and sucks in the next? It is a deception based game and sometimes someone's lack of skill is a really useful tool (for instance nobody could ever determine what to make of Zetsubou, for those who remember him). Badger plays the same way as mafia and town, imo. Everyone has their own particular strengths.
President of DDO
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:04:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 12:53:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.

I would say it's not fair to restrict better players from being replacements, because then what is the incentive to be good? It's almost penalization. Also who gets to determine who is good and who is not? What if someone is really good in one game and sucks in the next? It is a deception based game and sometimes someone's lack of skill is a really useful tool (for instance nobody could ever determine what to make of Zetsubou, for those who remember him). Badger plays the same way as mafia and town, imo. Everyone has their own particular strengths.

ingeniously? lol, but I agree. didn't see that bit first time for some reason.. given we're such a tight knit bunch the games would just end up always having the same few players killed off all the time, be they Mafia or town. you'd be stripping the game of mystery by routine...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:07:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:04:42 PM, el-badgero wrote:
At 9/6/2011 12:53:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.

I would say it's not fair to restrict better players from being replacements, because then what is the incentive to be good? It's almost penalization. Also who gets to determine who is good and who is not? What if someone is really good in one game and sucks in the next? It is a deception based game and sometimes someone's lack of skill is a really useful tool (for instance nobody could ever determine what to make of Zetsubou, for those who remember him). Badger plays the same way as mafia and town, imo. Everyone has their own particular strengths.

ingeniously? lol, but I agree. didn't see that bit first time for some reason.. given we're such a tight knit bunch the games would just end up always having the same few players killed off all the time, be they Mafia or town. you'd be stripping the game of mystery by routine...

killed off first that is... obviously. and.. ah ye get me!
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:08:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
let's not shift suspicion to me though...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:21:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:07:19 PM, el-badgero wrote:
At 9/6/2011 1:04:42 PM, el-badgero wrote:
At 9/6/2011 12:53:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.

I would say it's not fair to restrict better players from being replacements, because then what is the incentive to be good? It's almost penalization. Also who gets to determine who is good and who is not? What if someone is really good in one game and sucks in the next? It is a deception based game and sometimes someone's lack of skill is a really useful tool (for instance nobody could ever determine what to make of Zetsubou, for those who remember him). Badger plays the same way as mafia and town, imo. Everyone has their own particular strengths.

ingeniously? lol, but I agree. didn't see that bit first time for some reason.. given we're such a tight knit bunch the games would just end up always having the same few players killed off all the time, be they Mafia or town. you'd be stripping the game of mystery by routine...

killed off first that is... obviously. and.. ah ye get me!

maybe ye didn't get that I think allowing the same people back into the game disincentivises this ruination of mystery... now ye should get me! even if I am possibly making up words...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:27:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
well at least it'd do some bit to disincentivise it, or should do... I know Danielle still gets killed first a lot...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:29:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
she's too good though. it's only sensible :P
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:38:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
you might've deduce my survivorism in this game with my having ninja dude reveal...

though I think I did it rather well...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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9/6/2011 1:39:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 12:53:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I'd also like the thoughts on replacements.

If mafia or town eliminate someone based more on their skill set, in that they present a larger threat and need to be eliminated because of their ability, is it fair that they should be put back into the game?

I don't have a strong opinion on this, and am interested in the response.

I would say it's not fair to restrict better players from being replacements, because then what is the incentive to be good? It's almost penalization. Also who gets to determine who is good and who is not? What if someone is really good in one game and sucks in the next? It is a deception based game and sometimes someone's lack of skill is a really useful tool (for instance nobody could ever determine what to make of Zetsubou, for those who remember him). Badger plays the same way as mafia and town, imo. Everyone has their own particular strengths.

Well, I've been playing with you for a while now, and i personally think you are leaps and bounds better than any other player. The thing is, if they are eliminating you because of your particular strength it would be those who are making the call saying that you are good. Now they can just kill you off again, but I'm just not sure if it's fair.

I'm not just blowing wind up your skirt here ;-), because it really works against you in that you're killed off so quickly, and so often.

On the other hand, having players that are familiar with the game that is in play is better for the continuity of the game.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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9/6/2011 1:42:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@danielle

The game didn't start as balanced as you're saying, although innomen ultimately did a good job of adding balance - I don't know how much of that was on the fly. But we started with 4 mafia out of 17, but you're forgetting that we had a usurper. Since I planned to kill andro either DP2 by claiming tracker (which would have been cc'ed) or DP3 (as forensic investigator), we basically only had 3 mafia. With the recruiter's recruit able to turn down the recruitment (which I figure most people would, since it's easier to be town), technically we only had 3 vanilla mafia to start out of 16 players. Even with innomen's adding of players to the mafia, it was still almost impossible to win, esp with tim killing one possible recruit. We still needed all the right things to happen to win, which we ultimately did by tim offering to kill the PGO.

How did you know I was mafia when I claimed forensic investigator? You didn't seem to buy what I was saying based on your post in the replacement thread.

@Lickdafoot

As a tracker, if you tracked medicII, you would have seen him (popular townie) visit no one. You would have caught either me or freedomsquared killing him if you were a watcher.

@innomen

Good game. Don't worry - I've made all the same mistakes you did. I've put an action through once before I gave the role blocker a chance to use their role. I've also made the mistake of discussing the game with players as it is going on, which often leads to admissions that mods shouldn't make. It's too tempting to discuss the game and accidentally give away information so mod's may want to refrain from discussing the game socially with players until it is over.

I liked the historical aspect; it meant I was actually learning something while researching fake claims. It also fit really well with the recruits/traitors and I liked how the lie detector got ambiguous information.

There was obviously a lie detector btw since andro was godfather. I had to equivocate a lot the last DP because I didn't want to pick one person, since it didn't matter whether quarter or mongoose VTLed the other one, as long as they didn't VTL me.

inno, I'm curious what some of my mistakes were - if you have any tips, that'd be awesome.

I thought it was funny once I told andromeda that she could either die or make a good claim and potentially get me killed, but since my role said I had to get her killed and would show up next DP, the choice was losing two mafiosos are one and since I still won with the mafia, she had an incentive to just die. But I don't think it worked; she seemed to try pretty hard to stay alive. Was that a mistake?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:45:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:38:36 PM, el-badgero wrote:
you might've deduce my survivorism in this game with my having ninja dude reveal...

though I think I did it rather well...

and though I suppose it'd actually have been a rather reasonable move for a townie to make too if his role didn't suit to act on it on his own...

you could've deduced a bit though!
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 1:48:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Danielle just names out every mafioso she can in the first dp for no practical reason pretty much lol.. maybe if she didn't do that she wouldn't be killed so much..

but yeah she's class :)
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Lickdafoot
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9/6/2011 1:49:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:42:24 PM, bluesteel wrote:

@Lickdafoot

As a tracker, if you tracked medicII, you would have seen him (popular townie) visit no one. You would have caught either me or freedomsquared killing him if you were a watcher.


no, innomen was telling me who visited that person. for instance, when i tracked badger the third np, he told me that tim_spin visited badger. (maybe he got the roles mixed up because on the first night, i tracked danielle, and he told me danielle visited detectable)
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bluesteel
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9/6/2011 2:00:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
re: using the same player as a replacement over and over

I'm not gonna lie - it is annoying, but sometimes mods have to do it, and it's better to keep the game moving along. Although, mods do have to be careful about mod-confirming people by choosing the wrong replacements. For example, danielle couldn't have been a replacement DP2 without confirming she was town, since she knew who the watcher was and innomen wouldn't let her come back in the game as mafia with that private information. But once badger outed that info, she could have come back, in theory.

re: hard stops

Innomen is the first mod to use them. I actually like the end of talking after a hammer as well, especially if the mod may not log on for 6 hours or so to end the DP. That seems fair since the game shouldn't change based on when the mod logs on. But it seems hard to enforce since ppl aren't used to it.

I think danielle is the only mod to count unvotes on hammers; i guess it wouldn't have mattered in this game (well maybe on OreEle's lynch), but it makes mafia's job almost impossible (esp on the last DP in some games), since sometimes casting the last hammer makes you look extremely guilty, so in theory a townie could unvote and you're caught with your pants down.

@badger

Sorry you felt compelled to quit, but your suspicions were spot on, just for the wrong reason, and discrediting your constant suspicion seemed to be a lever that was working. I think your suspicion of me wasn't well justified, except my character claim, which I guess you're right, didn't quite make sense with the role claim.

You're an interesting player. Not gonna lie - your style is a bit annoying; I have to constantly remind myself that you're not the only person in the game, since when you post 100 times in an hour, it sometimes seems that way, so for some reason I want to convince you, even though that's useless, as we both know.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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9/6/2011 2:04:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:49:33 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 9/6/2011 1:42:24 PM, bluesteel wrote:

@Lickdafoot

As a tracker, if you tracked medicII, you would have seen him (popular townie) visit no one. You would have caught either me or freedomsquared killing him if you were a watcher.


no, innomen was telling me who visited that person. for instance, when i tracked badger the third np, he told me that tim_spin visited badger. (maybe he got the roles mixed up because on the first night, i tracked danielle, and he told me danielle visited detectable)

^^yeah that's an oops on the badger one
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 2:11:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 2:00:25 PM, bluesteel wrote:
re: using the same player as a replacement over and over

I'm not gonna lie - it is annoying, but sometimes mods have to do it, and it's better to keep the game moving along. Although, mods do have to be careful about mod-confirming people by choosing the wrong replacements. For example, danielle couldn't have been a replacement DP2 without confirming she was town, since she knew who the watcher was and innomen wouldn't let her come back in the game as mafia with that private information. But once badger outed that info, she could have come back, in theory.


re: hard stops

Innomen is the first mod to use them. I actually like the end of talking after a hammer as well, especially if the mod may not log on for 6 hours or so to end the DP. That seems fair since the game shouldn't change based on when the mod logs on. But it seems hard to enforce since ppl aren't used to it.

I think danielle is the only mod to count unvotes on hammers; i guess it wouldn't have mattered in this game (well maybe on OreEle's lynch), but it makes mafia's job almost impossible (esp on the last DP in some games), since sometimes casting the last hammer makes you look extremely guilty, so in theory a townie could unvote and you're caught with your pants down.

@badger

Sorry you felt compelled to quit, but your suspicions were spot on, just for the wrong reason, and discrediting your constant suspicion seemed to be a lever that was working. I think your suspicion of me wasn't well justified, except my character claim, which I guess you're right, didn't quite make sense with the role claim.

eh I knew I was goosed with andro's lynch.. and my suspicions of you were from the off actually :P if you were town you'd have jumped on oreele.. that was a huge mistake he made.. the rest was just me using my imagination to try and figure out the rest of the game... incorrectly I suppose.. but it was still early..

You're an interesting player. Not gonna lie - your style is a bit annoying; I have to constantly remind myself that you're not the only person in the game, since when you post 100 times in an hour, it sometimes seems that way, so for some reason I want to convince you, even though that's useless, as we both know.

lol I'd not have been so bad for the posting had I been on my computer I'd think... you're an interesting player yourself...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
innomen
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9/6/2011 2:12:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:42:24 PM, bluesteel wrote:
@danielle

The game didn't start as balanced as you're saying, although innomen ultimately did a good job of adding balance - I don't know how much of that was on the fly. But we started with 4 mafia out of 17, but you're forgetting that we had a usurper. Since I planned to kill andro either DP2 by claiming tracker (which would have been cc'ed) or DP3 (as forensic investigator), we basically only had 3 mafia. With the recruiter's recruit able to turn down the recruitment (which I figure most people would, since it's easier to be town), technically we only had 3 vanilla mafia to start out of 16 players. Even with innomen's adding of players to the mafia, it was still almost impossible to win, esp with tim killing one possible recruit. We still needed all the right things to happen to win, which we ultimately did by tim offering to kill the PGO.

How did you know I was mafia when I claimed forensic investigator? You didn't seem to buy what I was saying based on your post in the replacement thread.

@Lickdafoot

As a tracker, if you tracked medicII, you would have seen him (popular townie) visit no one. You would have caught either me or freedomsquared killing him if you were a watcher.

@innomen

Good game. Don't worry - I've made all the same mistakes you did. I've put an action through once before I gave the role blocker a chance to use their role. I've also made the mistake of discussing the game with players as it is going on, which often leads to admissions that mods shouldn't make. It's too tempting to discuss the game and accidentally give away information so mod's may want to refrain from discussing the game socially with players until it is over.

I liked the historical aspect; it meant I was actually learning something while researching fake claims. It also fit really well with the recruits/traitors and I liked how the lie detector got ambiguous information.

There was obviously a lie detector btw since andro was godfather. I had to equivocate a lot the last DP because I didn't want to pick one person, since it didn't matter whether quarter or mongoose VTLed the other one, as long as they didn't VTL me.

inno, I'm curious what some of my mistakes were - if you have any tips, that'd be awesome.

I'm reading over the mafia only PM, and i don't know why i would say that. You did a pretty great job in that PM. You were pretty balsy with Andromeda, i doubt many others would have just taken control like that.

I thought it was funny once I told andromeda that she could either die or make a good claim and potentially get me killed, but since my role said I had to get her killed and would show up next DP, the choice was losing two mafiosos are one and since I still won with the mafia, she had an incentive to just die. But I don't think it worked; she seemed to try pretty hard to stay alive. Was that a mistake?

See above. I think that at one point you pretty much gave her no option; it was very mafia within mafia. I was impressed.

BTW, you know that in real life it was Beria who many think killed Stalin, and he was the #2 guy, he even spoke at his funeral. He was looking to take over after Stalin would be killed.

I'm glad people liked this sort of theme, because i enjoyed devising it. I took a lot of time putting it together with the cast. Originally i had 27 characters all with integral roles, but realized it was way too much.
el-badgero
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9/6/2011 2:14:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
one of ye might post the Mafia pm?
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
bluesteel
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9/6/2011 2:15:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@inno

When I read up on Beria, I thought he was so awesome. I wanted to claim him as my town character - I was so bummed when I realized that wouldn't work cuz he's so awesome, so it was sad that no one would know my real character until the end.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Danielle
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9/6/2011 2:31:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 1:42:24 PM, bluesteel wrote:
@danielle

The game didn't start as balanced as you're saying, although innomen ultimately did a good job of adding balance - I don't know how much of that was on the fly. But we started with 4 mafia out of 17,

That is 1/4 of the players, which is the standard...

but you're forgetting that we had a usurper. Since I planned to kill andro either DP2 by claiming tracker (which would have been cc'ed) or DP3 (as forensic investigator), we basically only had 3 mafia.

The Godfather is likely to get killed somewhere along the way anyhow (lynch or vig), so you never had to intentionally do anything to get her killed. I had already said Andro was playing suspiciously on dp2, so all that would have had to happen is me call out her role claim as bogus and she would have died. The Godfather doesn't have an incentive to fight the usurper because both players win if the mafia wins.

With the recruiter's recruit able to turn down the recruitment (which I figure most people would, since it's easier to be town),

Depends on who was winning at that point, I guess.

technically we only had 3 vanilla mafia to start out of 16 players.

You had 1/4 of the players (which is standard), 1 of which was a role blocker/framer and the Godfather isn't "vanilla" anymore than a bulletproof is vanilla. Godfather is a useful role (has better chance at fake claiming obscure roles cuz they appear innocent).

Even with innomen's adding of players to the mafia, it was still almost impossible to win, esp with tim killing one possible recruit. We still needed all the right things to happen to win, which we ultimately did by tim offering to kill the PGO.

Kindaaa disagree but don't care enough to explain :) I think the mafia in this game was standard - except - I think the standard is still harder for the mafia to win, so I see what you're saying.

How did you know I was mafia when I claimed forensic investigator? You didn't seem to buy what I was saying based on your post in the replacement thread.

I suspected you all of dp2 but ESPECIALLY when you hammered Ore_Ele. That's when it was confirmed in my mind that you were mafia. When you threw Andro under the bus, it seemed like a desperate attempt to make the town trust you to stay alive. I figured they would trust you for awhile, but eventually realize you were lying. For instance, WHAT IDIOT lynches the person who claimed doctor vs. the person who claimed one-shot FI? The "one shot" bit was terribly convenient, but worst of all, because of the stupid hammer rule (day phase ends after lynch number is reached), casting a vote without even giving mongoose the chance to talk just allowed you to end the day phase.

I already spelled out for the town that you were clearly mafia for doing that on dp2 and why that was dangerous. People never listen to me, greatly to their detriment :P

Tim was also dumb for offering to try and kill the PGO; Logic seemed very innocent to me. Also if you were town you would have been more wary of Tim's offer. I didn't notice - was Tim an over-eager vig? If so his offer may have made more sense; if not he was really reckless in killing random people each night.
President of DDO
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/6/2011 3:30:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
awwhh Danielle I think you're class and I love you! I'm just a d1ckhead...
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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9/6/2011 4:04:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Firstly, good job modding Innomen. I particularly liked the roles and such. Also, I support hard stops as it gives some help to the Mafia. I say this as had I been allowed to talk before the NP I think I could have given the town a chance. Really, a Vig targeting a PGO? The lie detector should have detected themselves to make sense of their results.

On replacements, I typically like just coming back once. Bluesteel once had me come back twice, and since the Mafia were in part killing me due to my deductions, it was very unfair, especially since I eventually retained key information. So, only once normally.

I'd add more, but I have school.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it