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HvV: Movie Edition Mafia - END GAME

tvellalott
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12/11/2011 5:23:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Victory goes to... MAFIA!

HEROES (11)

Spritle: You are INDIANA JONES, from the INDIANA JONES films.
You are the BELOVED MASON RECRUITER. If you are killed, the next day phase will be skipped. Each night, you may attempt to recruit one person into the masons. If you choose a townie, they will be recruited. If you choose a non-townie, you will be killed. This type of death WILL NOT activate your BELOVED effect. You win with the town.

socialpinko: You are ELLEN RIPLEY, from the ALIEN films.
You are the BODYGUARD. Each night, you may choose one person. If that person is targeted for death, there will be a 50% chance you kill the attacker and a 50% chance you will die in their place. You win with the town.

Logic_on_Rails: You are HARRY CALLAHAN, from the DIRTY HARRY films.
You are the VIGILANTE. Each night you may attempt to kill one person. You win with the town.

TheTruthAnalyst: You are OBI-WAN KENOBI, from the STAR WARS films.
You are the LIE DETECTOR. Each night you may test one game-related line from the previous day phase and see if it was the truth.

bluesteel: You are EL MARIACHI, from films EL MARIACHI, DESPERADO and ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO.
You are the HUNTER. If you are lynched, you may choose one person and they will be killed along with you.

PartamRuhem: You are ETHAN HUNT from the MISSION IMPOSSIBLE films.
You are the AGENT. Each night, you may send a message to one person. Who you are, what your character is or what your alliance is WILL NOT be confirmed by me. You are also the ODD/EVEN TRACKER/WATCHER. Each odd numbered night phase, you may target one person. You will be informed of anyone they visit. Each even numbered night phase, you may target one person. You will be informed of anyone who visits them. You win with the town.

lickdafoot: You are SNAKE PLISSKEN from the films ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK and ESCAPE FROM LA.
You are the MILLER. If your alliance is investigated, you will appear GUILTY. You win with the town.

Greyparrot: You are ASH WILLIAMS, from the EVIL DEAD films.
You are the MACHO JACK OF IMPORTANT TRADES. Each night, you may choose one of the following options:
PROTECT: Protect the target from death.
INVESTIGATE: Investigate the targets alignment.
You may only use one of your abilities per night. You may use any of these abilities as many times as you like. Protective abilities, both your own and belonging to others, don't work on you. You win with the town.

Danielle: You are DAVID DUNN, from the film UNBREAKABLE
You are BULLETPROOF. You cannot be killed during the night by any role. Being role blocked will NOT affect this ability. You can however suffocate, so lynching will kill you. You may gain additional powers later if one of your fellow heroes falls. You win with the town.
-Will gain Obi-Wan Kenobi's powers if he is killed.

Rusty: You are MARTIN GIBBS from the LETHAL WEAPON films.
You were actually SERGEANT FRANK DREBIN, from the NAKED GUN films.
You are the COP. Each night you can investigate one person and be informed of whether they are pro-town or anti-town.
You were really the NAIVE COP. Each night you can investigate one person, but you're investigation will always return a pro-town result. You are unaware until your death that this is the case.

M.Torres: You are ALAN GARNER, from THE HANGOVER films.
You are the TOWN DRUNK. Each night you may drug someone and prevent them from using their role. You win with the town.

VILLAINS (3)
BlackVoid: You are the T-800 aka CYBERDYNE SYSTEMS MODEL 101, from the film THE TERMINATOR.
You are the ROLEBLOCKER. Each night you may choose to block one target from using their ability. You will also survive one attempt to night kill you. You are also the ONE-SHOT TREE STUMPER. On any one night, you may choose one player. They will be completely stripped of their role AND their ability to vote, leaving them with ONLY the ability to post during the DAY PHASE. You may only use one of your abilities per night phase. You win with the mafia.

drafterman: You are AGENT SMITH from the MATRIX films
You are the JACK OF ALL, ALL, ALL TRADES. Each night you may choose one of the following options:
FRAME: Target player will appear guilty to investigations.
DRIVER: Choose two targets. Any abilities used on the two targets will be switched.
JANITOR: Choose a target player. If that player's role information would normally be revealed the next Day Phase (if they were lynched the previous Day Phase or they are killed during that Night Phase) their information will be hidden for as long as you live.
LAWYER: Choose a target player (including yourself). If that player is investigated during that night phase, they will appear innocent.
SILENCER: Choose a target player. That player may not speak during the next day phase.
POLITICIAN: Choose a target player. You may choose who that person votes for during the next day phase.
You may only use each power once. You win with the mafia.

blackhawk1331 (replaced by headphonegut): You are FREDDY KRUEGER from the NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET films.
You are the STALKER. Each night you may target one person and their role will be revealed to you. You are BULLETPROOF. You cannot be killed during the night by any means. You win with the mafia.

medic0506: You are ROGER "VERBAL" KINT, from the film THE USUAL SUSPECTS.
You are the TRAITOR. You are part of the mafia, but they are unaware of your existence. The members of the mafia are x, y and z. You will appear innocent to all types of investigations. You win with the mafia.

THIRD PARTY (1)


Andromeda_Z: You are "ANYTIME", the YAUTIJA from the film PREDATOR.
You are the HEAD HUNTER. Each night you may select someone's head to take at a trophy. You are the SELF-DESTRUCTER. If you are killed during the night, you will self-destruct, killing yourself and the assailant. You are the NINJA. You cannot be seen by either tracker or watcher roles. You must collect 5 or more trophies and survive until the end of the game to win.

OK, so I made some mistakes in this game and I have no way of knowing what impact they had on it...

NIGHT PHASE 1
Spritle (Mason) recruits PartamRuhem
socialpinko (Bodyguard) protects medic0506
logic_on_rails (Vigilante) passes
TheTruthAnalyst (Lie Detector) tests Danielle "I win with the town"
PartamRuhem (Tracker, Agent) tracks Danielle, messages medic0506
Greyparrot (JOAT) investigates lickdafoot
Rusty (Naive Cop) investigates Danielle
M.Torres (Drunk) passes
Blackvoid (Roleblocker) roleblocks medic0506 and is sent to kill Andromeda_Z
drafterman (JOAT) janitors Andromeda_Z
blackhawk1331 (Stalker) stalks greyparrot
Andromeda_Z (Serial Killer) kills TheTruthAnalyst

I made two mistakes here, one of which greatly impacted the mafia.
1) Mafia actually sent blackhawk1331 to kill Andromeda_Z, not BlackVoid. I misread it and posted the day phase before I picked up on the mistake. I know I preach NOT rebalancing the game, but I felt obligated to compensate them, so I told the mafia that each movie series was only used once, so if they claimed the heroes from their movies, they would be safe character claims.
2) I told Greyparrot that lickdafoot had appeared innocent; I got my cops mixed up. I then had to explain that she had in fact shown up guilty. Not such a big deal, but a mistake none the less.

I'll also have to add, I do the order of my night kills: 3rd party > Mafia > Town, which is why Andromeda_Z's kill went through, even though she died, but logic_on_rail's kill didn't go through in NP4. The bomb can obviously kill bulletproof townies.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
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12/11/2011 5:32:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
NIGHT PHASE 2:
Spritle (Beloved Mason) recruits Danielle
socialpinko (Bodyguard) protects Greyparrot
logic_on_rails (Vigilante) kills M.Torres
Greyparrot (JOAT) investigates Danielle (GUILTY)
Rusty (Naive Cop) investigates lickdafoot (INNOCENT)

drafterman (JOAT) frames Danielle
Blackhawk (Stalker) stalks medic0506, kills PartamRuhem

NIGHT PHASE 3:
Spritle recruits bluesteel
logic_on_rails kills socialpinko
Greyparrot investigates Spritle
Rusty investigates Greyparrot
M.Torres roleblockes headphonegut
drafterman busses bluesteel and headphonegut
headphonegut kills lickdafoot and stalks socialpinko

NIGHT PHASE 4:
logic_on_rails kills drafterman
Greyparrot protects medic0506
Rusty investigates medic0506
drafterman steals Rusty's vote
headphonegut kills logic_on_rails and stalks bluesteel

So, since Rusty's vote was on himself, mafia had a voting majority and won.

MVP: drafterman
drafterman used all his powers very well to spread confusion throughout the town. He started to crumble DP4 because of headphonegut's 'guilty result on Greyparrot' play, which wasn't discussed or planned at all and went against the plan to kill bluesteel...

All in all, I think it was a successful game.

Questions?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
BlackVoid
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12/11/2011 5:51:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah I'm dissappointed that I didn't really get to participate, but I can't argue with the results. Drafterman played perfectly until HPGs insane accusation, which he just came out with randomly without ever consulting us.
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:24:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
01. GreyParrot
02. Medic0506
03. Drafterman
04. Logic_on_rails
05. M.Torres
06. bluesteel
07. Blackhawk1331 (headphonegut)
08. Rusty

NP: drafterman dies, logic dies

01. GreyParrot
02. Medic0506
05. M.Torres
06. bluesteel
07. Blackhawk1331 (headphonegut)
08. Rusty

6 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Yeah, guess it was over. Thanks for the loss grey. If you'd just hammered headphone. It should have been obvious to anyone that medic and drafter were mafia by the end of the DP. They refused to hammer headphone, for whatever reason (we now know he was mafia).

Whatever tv. I'm not happy with the game. The mafia look ridiculously overpowered and the mafia only won because you called the DP in their favor and because grey basically chose to give them the win by wasting his role and refusing to play pro-town.

Had town lynched me, they also would have likely won, I guess.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:25:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
um, what happened to danielle getting lie detector powers???
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:25:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
ok, I was right when I said my faith in spritle would be restored if he was bussed.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:27:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 5:32:18 PM, tvellalott wrote:

NIGHT PHASE 4:
logic_on_rails kills drafterman
Greyparrot protects medic0506
Rusty investigates medic0506
drafterman steals Rusty's vote
headphonegut kills logic_on_rails and stalks bluesteel

grey, are you serious?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/11/2011 6:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay, looking at the game from the outside, there is so much I want to share my thoughts about but I gotta go so I will post later.

Right now, I will say this: Mafia did an awesome job. So did Bluesteel. However, the important thing to note is that mafia legitimately won this. They did NOT win just because TV called time out. Grey was waiting for the time out and posted immediately right after TV closed the DP. Town would never have come to a consensus because Grey would not vote for HPG. This was a true mafia win and they would have won even IF the DP had extended indefinitely. I just wanted to point that out.

Also, I was so surprised you guys proceeded with the lynch on Danielle. Which is more likely: That she was a bulletproof sneak aligned with the mafia or that she was framed? It seemed so much like a repeat of the Pixar game.

Mafia did have quite a few powers but it fell to Drafterman to use them effectively and call the shots which he did perfectly and won this game for the mafia.
Rusty
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12/11/2011 6:44:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 6:43:30 PM, Rusty wrote:
I totally called you out for scum, drafterman, just sayin'. =P

Although I was wrong about you and Greyparrot...
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:45:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
F-16, I don't even...

If you guys can't see how unfair this game was. Drafterman is a good player and he gets props, but cmon. drafterman's role basically assures mafia a victory. If they killed the Mason, we would have lost a DP (two mafia NK's). The game ends a DP early as long as drafter lives. Mafia could have theoretically won this game after two DPs if they killed the beloved, logic mis-killed, and then they used their poli power.

Danielle could have saved herself by claiming the latter half of her role, which she didn't.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tvellalott
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12/11/2011 6:48:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 6:24:25 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Whatever tv. I'm not happy with the game. The mafia look ridiculously overpowered and the mafia only won because you called the DP in their favor and because grey basically chose to give them the win by wasting his role and refusing to play pro-town.

Whatever yourself bluesteel.
1) Mafia were not overpowered. Town had a bunch of investigative roles and none of the main mafia were investigation proof. If the cop had gotten a guilty on drafterman NP1, do you think it would have gone down like this? Town played badly and they were unlucky. I put almost all the experienced players on the town side. That isn't my fault.
2) Bullsh!t at calling the DP in their favour. How long do you want me to wait? Until what YOU want to happen happens? Pfft. Greyparrot was online. He could have hammered he didn't.
3) As for Danielle gaining Lie Detector powers, that was from an earlier build, sorry. She gained Greyparrots powers when he died (It's on my spreadsheet) (which I surprised didn't happen, since mafia knew he couldn't be protected), but he didn't.

Had town lynched me, they also would have likely won, I guess.
Indeed. Had M.Torres roleblocked drafterman, you would have won too.

Just so you all know, I haven't modded for nearly 6 months and I'm very rusty. My next game (which will be after Danielles large game I imagine) will be much better.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 6:59:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@tv

Had drafterman got investigated NP1, sure it would have gone down differently. But you can't count on a super-powered mafioso dying DP2 when considering game balance. I'm starting to see what you're saying though. Had grey not played, we'd have had two good investigators and a bulletproof as a replacement if one died. So that would have been pretty awesome. But balance that with a beloved that only hurts the town and with a naive cop to screw with us.

I see what you're saying about the DP ending. It should be fairly clear that I'm mostly mad at grey. It took me awhile of reading the endgame to figure out that he was the only townie not voting HPG.

So yeah, I guess I'm mostly mad at the way people played. It feels a lot like I played well and yet there was absolutely nothing I could have done differently to have won this for the town near the end, which is why it *feels* like was mafia was too powerful.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
drafterman
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12/11/2011 7:01:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 6:44:11 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 12/11/2011 6:43:30 PM, Rusty wrote:
I totally called you out for scum, drafterman, just sayin'. =P

Although I was wrong about you and Greyparrot...

Well, yeah. If you FOS enough people, you're BOUND to be right.
tvellalott
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12/11/2011 7:02:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 6:59:48 PM, bluesteel wrote:
@tv

Had drafterman got investigated NP1, sure it would have gone down differently. But you can't count on a super-powered mafioso dying DP2 when considering game balance. I'm starting to see what you're saying though. Had grey not played, we'd have had two good investigators and a bulletproof as a replacement if one died. So that would have been pretty awesome. But balance that with a beloved that only hurts the town and with a naive cop to screw with us.

I see what you're saying about the DP ending. It should be fairly clear that I'm mostly mad at grey. It took me awhile of reading the endgame to figure out that he was the only townie not voting HPG.

So yeah, I guess I'm mostly mad at the way people played. It feels a lot like I played well and yet there was absolutely nothing I could have done differently to have won this for the town near the end, which is why it *feels* like was mafia was too powerful.

I have to say, I originally didn't have the drunk or the traitor in the game. I added them because two more people wanted to play. That might have fvcked things up.
Andro was supposed to live longer too. Oh well, I'm not infallible. :|
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
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12/11/2011 7:06:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 6:45:41 PM, bluesteel wrote:
F-16, I don't even...

If you guys can't see how unfair this game was. Drafterman is a good player and he gets props, but cmon. drafterman's role basically assures mafia a victory. If they killed the Mason, we would have lost a DP (two mafia NK's). The game ends a DP early as long as drafter lives. Mafia could have theoretically won this game after two DPs if they killed the beloved, logic mis-killed, and then they used their poli power.

Danielle could have saved herself by claiming the latter half of her role, which she didn't.

I thought about that, but it doesn't work out. It means I would have had to use my mafia kill on Spritle, losing a kill and then just hoping that Logic miskills. Since my powers were context dependent (and thus, not guaranteed, despite what you may suggest) I decided to get the extra kill in by having Spritle recruit scrum and seeing how the DP played out. Since the last DP ended in no lynch, it was pretty much the same death toll wise, but I had additional information with which to choose my powers. It would suck to Poli someone who Logic kills, for example.

I'll agree that I had some pretty decent powers, but they all require correct timing. The only one that is guaranteed to be effective was janitor and poli. All the other powers depend solely on town behavior, without which they are just luck based. I mean, if you didn't BROADCAST YOUR EVERY ACTION, then I wouldn't have been able to do what I did.

With BV dying NP1 and black being pretty much MIA and HPG being, well, HPG, it was pretty much left up to me, strategy wise.
Rusty
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12/11/2011 7:41:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 7:01:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/11/2011 6:44:11 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 12/11/2011 6:43:30 PM, Rusty wrote:
I totally called you out for scum, drafterman, just sayin'. =P

Although I was wrong about you and Greyparrot...

Well, yeah. If you FOS enough people, you're BOUND to be right.

Whatever you say buddy.
tvellalott
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12/11/2011 7:57:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Danielle was so certain that bluesteel was mafia.
I want to hear her opinion about this game.
It wasn't anywhere near perfect; I kind of built it so town would self-destruct.

I found it really annoying how badly you were all tunnelled on your so-called 'readings' of each other. It allowed drafterman and blackvoid1331 to completely cruise under the radar (which is why I chose them as mafia) while you were at each others throats.

If we want to progress as a mafia community, that sh!t has to stop. Get over the "oh, bluesteel is town so Danielle must be mafia... if she is town two medic must be mafia."
It's COMPLETELY faulty and downright harmful to the townies.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
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12/11/2011 7:59:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If anyone explains the procedure for grabbing the mafia PMs (in FireFox) I'll do that.

I'll say this. Whatever part luck played, however powered you think the mafia were. The last phase was a big fat fumble.

It was, essentially, HPG fumbling the football, and me kicking it downfield in a fit of frustration (for that, I apologize. My behavior last DP was basically me taking my frustration out in the thread; I played rather poorly).

Yet, despite that, the town just stood their, looking at the football, lying on the ground. "Uhm, what do we do now?"

I fully intended on bussing HPG after his post. I was actually more frustrated that I couldn't bus my own teammate after a story like that!
drafterman
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12/11/2011 8:01:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 7:59:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
If anyone explains the procedure for grabbing the mafia PMs (in FireFox) I'll do that.

I'll say this. Whatever part luck played, however powered you think the mafia were. The last phase was a big fat fumble.

It was, essentially, HPG fumbling the football, and me kicking it downfield in a fit of frustration (for that, I apologize. My behavior last DP was basically me taking my frustration out in the thread; I played rather poorly).

Yet, despite that, the town just stood there, looking at the football, lying on the ground. "Uhm, what do we do now?"

I fully intended on bussing HPG after his post. I was actually more frustrated that I couldn't bus my own teammate after a story like that!
headphonegut
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12/11/2011 8:06:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yea I would've felt effing terrible and still kinda do for ruining drafterman's gameplan. still this is the second game as mafia excluding WTF mafia.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
drafterman
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12/11/2011 8:07:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 8:06:19 PM, headphonegut wrote:
Yea I would've felt effing terrible and still kinda do for ruining drafterman's gameplan. still this is the second game as mafia excluding WTF mafia.

I'm sorry for being as harsh as I was in my response. Every game is a learning experience.
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 8:07:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
lol, grey, talk about repeating your mistakes. This is the SECOND time you investigated miller NP1 and then investigated a FRAMED danielle DP2. Be more predictable.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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12/11/2011 8:12:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Drafter, why are you mad? HPG won you the game. I would have killed you, for sure, if you went after me.

It's hard to believe you don't think you were overpowered. Sure you could mess up and waste your role, but town often *does* broadcast their moves because they force everyone to claim and voice who is most suspicious. You got to RB an investigator (by silencing that person) or basically kill me by silencing me. You got a janitor, which is so powerful it's its own role. And poli, which is obviously useful only on the last DP.

And you can switch two targets, which meant that if you knew who logic was gonna kill, you could have switched. So EVEN IF you wasted the poli, if you still had your switch, you could switch yourself and a townie so logic kills the wrong person, making a good case that he was serial killer.

You played well but this game was guaranteed to confuse the sht out of town no matter what happened. How would you like to have played my role with me having your role?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
drafterman
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12/11/2011 8:24:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 8:12:26 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Drafter, why are you mad? HPG won you the game. I would have killed you, for sure, if you went after me.

I wasn't planning on going after you. At least not directly. HPG didn't win me the game, the town won me the game. Why you and Grey didn't come in and slam HPG, I don't know. My objective was to let the death toll speak for itself and let the town come to its own conclusion. That's exactly what I did with Danielle. If Rusty hadn't come in, that lynch would have went by more smoothly, I think.


It's hard to believe you don't think you were overpowered. Sure you could mess up and waste your role, but town often *does* broadcast their moves because they force everyone to claim and voice who is most suspicious. You got to RB an investigator (by silencing that person) or basically kill me by silencing me. You got a janitor, which is so powerful it's its own role. And poli, which is obviously useful only on the last DP.

1. Our janitor shot was wasted, basically.
2. It's not just knowing who to target, but when, being 1 shot. The only reason I felt confident framing Danielle, was because I knew Grey was an investigator and had expressed suspicion as Danielle. Otherwise, you and Danielle had basically set yourselves up as opposites. I'm not sure what I would have done. Without knowing who the investigator was and their opinions, I don't think I would have felt confident using that power. Especially given the propensity of our investigates TO INVESTIGATE MILLERS!


And you can switch two targets, which meant that if you knew who logic was gonna kill, you could have switched. So EVEN IF you wasted the poli, if you still had your switch, you could switch yourself and a townie so logic kills the wrong person, making a good case that he was serial killer.

You played well but this game was guaranteed to confuse the sht out of town no matter what happened. How would you like to have played my role with me having your role?

You know me. I just love a chance to VTL myself. This just gets me a kill when I do.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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12/11/2011 8:26:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2011 8:12:26 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Drafter, why are you mad? HPG won you the game. I would have killed you, for sure, if you went after me.

It's hard to believe you don't think you were overpowered. Sure you could mess up and waste your role, but town often *does* broadcast their moves because they force everyone to claim and voice who is most suspicious. You got to RB an investigator (by silencing that person) or basically kill me by silencing me. You got a janitor, which is so powerful it's its own role. And poli, which is obviously useful only on the last DP.

And you can switch two targets, which meant that if you knew who logic was gonna kill, you could have switched. So EVEN IF you wasted the poli, if you still had your switch, you could switch yourself and a townie so logic kills the wrong person, making a good case that he was serial killer.

You played well but this game was guaranteed to confuse the sht out of town no matter what happened. How would you like to have played my role with me having your role?

Trololo. I wanted to confuse town. Besides, it's easy for you to go "mafia were overpowered" when you can look at the game in retrospect.
I'm not denying the mafia JOAT was a very powerful role but it's not overpowered when you have a powerful town to counter it.
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Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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12/12/2011 1:37:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This was a highly interesting game that has some similarities to my planned game, but let's not discuss that!

Like Blue, I had the interesting sensation of having felt like I played decently, yet couldn't really have done too much better. Killing NP 1 is always pretty risky and although maybe NP 2 was a time to act, I did try pretty hard to not be role blocked in the end. After that I followed town policy and so forth.

Drafterman gets credit for playing quite nicely. I also commend TV on putting many experienced players on the town side; it takes some courage. Nevertheless, it was the dreadful play of some of the town that really made the Mafia win. Social's inactivity got him killed and Grey played ... terribly. This is the second time a miller has been investigated... and furthermore, he didn't attempt to lynch HPG, a seriously amazing lynch to not go through with.

Now, I have a modding question for TV. TV, did my kill on Drafterman go through? If so, the game shouldn't be over. Let me explain.

There would be 6 players left following myself and Drafterman dying - 4 town and 2 Mafia. With 1 town on themselves a 3-3 situation could occur. Mafia kill a town player. 3-2 . Town can then proceed to lynch the Mafia and win.

So, I know you said that 3rd party > Mafia > Town, but was that applied in practice (which would make it an obvious Mafia win if Drafterman survived) ? Also, what is the justification behind not running the actions simultaneously? I'm interested both out of personal interest and in determining how I run my far off game.
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BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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12/12/2011 2:30:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mafia pm 1 - http://img42.imageshack.us...
Mafia pm 2 - http://img72.imageshack.us...

I wouldnt think the mafia were overpowered had there only been 3. Since we didn't know Medic was with us, it made sense that our powers being so strong would mean there's only be three of us. But adding Medic did admittedly make the game pretty tough for town.

Imagine if I didn't hit the bomb NP1. Then we would have had a role blocker in addition to everything else. We would have had,

Roleblocker/permanent role remover/permanent vote remover
Every night stalker who cant be killed
Super mega JOAT
Super GF who is immune to cops and LD's

Our roles were obviously incredibly strong, but drafterman is right that town hurt themselves somewhat. You guys publicly broadcasted every night action you were going to take. That made it easy for drafterman to know what role to use and who to use it on to cause the most confusion.

But this game seemed really fun and crazy so I'm dissappointed I died so soon, especially under the circumstances. But mistakes happen. As compensation, TV can make me the mafia godfather in the cartoon game. Wait, did I say that out loud?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/12/2011 10:42:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What we have learned from this game:

1. Greyparrot completely sucks at mafia. Period.

2. Lickdafoot nor anybody else has any idea how to read me whatsoever. Every single townie thought I was guilty despite the fact that I laid out a plethora of evidence in my favor, and there was far less evidence against me than in my favor.

3. Going along with #2, it's complete bullsh!t that I am only aggressive when I am mafia (M.Torres). I am ALWAYS aggressive. Plain and simple. Just accept the fact that you cannot rely on my behavior to read me because my behavior is consistent (bitchy and impatient). I could easily change my demeanor in this game, but I prefer to have a bitchy stereotype because that way I can vent out all of my frustration at people's incompetence, and vocalize my legitimate claims of idiocy without people thinking I'm just scum - because it will be how I play all the time ;)

4. I'm always going to be a target for framing and that's just the way it is. It's not an excuse for when I'm mafia. It's reality. Of course I cannot always rely on this excuse, but that's why people need to have evidence and not just make b.s. claims about being able to "read" me (clearly not) and acknowledge that I am a prime target for framing.

Now, can I just say that the claims that I have somehow been against bluesteel are again annoying? I brought this up in the game. I never thought this was a Danielle vs. bluesteel thing in any way. In fact, I initially supported his innocence. I only started to believe he was guilty when he insisted I was, despite me laying out a mountain of evidence in my favor vs. the ONE (flimsy) piece of evidence against me. I didn't think blue would be naive enough to fall for me being framed, but whatevs. Also the fact that he said he would take me down and kill me if he died despite, once again, there being not ONE good reason to do so whatsoever. He ignored the links between what the mod said to him about roles and me being Bulletproof to boot.

I did suspect drafterman based on his actions, but completely believed the claim Neo from the Matrix because I thought it was a great character claim. However, the second he complained about me talking in the game thread ("The dead to not speak") I had a feeling he was mafia. Why? The mafia ALWAYS complains about me. I was just about to type, "Yeah for your sake I'm sure you hope I'll be quiet," but refrained because I didn't want it to interfere with my chances about being selected to replace someone :/

I also knew for certain that HPG was mafia, but didn't consider any of the others. I did say one of 3 lurkers including medic was likely mafia though. I knew Grey was town and just stupid. I knew Lickdafoot was town and just completely bsin'g about her so-called read on me. I knew Rusty was the naive cop (I spelled out exactly how/why we knew that was the case).

Drafterman did a great job. I do think blue seemed very guilty after my death. Once again, not because it was a blue vs. Danielle thing (people need to quit fabricating make believe drama or rivalries) but because I genuinely couldn't fathom how he was so sure I was mafia after I laid out the plethora of evidence blatantly for everyone to see. Then again, the town completely ignored that 2 games in a row, which just goes to show ya the kind of credibility people have.

I g2g so I can't really assess whether or not the mafia was overpowered, but at first glance of the roles it certainly seems that way! However upon further examination I actually think it was really fair, so I'd like to say good job to tv on that one. The mafia did earn the win, I'll admit, but mostly in part to the town's stupidity and not to their credit lol (except drafterman). I mean HPG was so obviously and disgustingly guilty.

Looking at the town roles, the beloved mason recruiter worked AGAINST the town. If Spritle were killed, a day phase would be skipped (which is anti-town). Meanwhile, the point of a beloved role is that if the mafia kills them, THEY are punished (by a night phase being skipped). I guess there is no right or wrong way for roles to operate and function, but I don't think this was a completely pro-town role by any means.

M.Torres' role was also anti-town. It's true we had a decent amount of investigative roles, but one was naive.

Overall I do think the game was well balanced, and it would have gone completely differently if drafterman were killed. Had that been the case, the town would have won (as his role was most powerful). I really think the town should have considered the fact that there were TWO joat claims.
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