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Beginner 3.3 - Illuminati- END GAME

Lickdafoot
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12/19/2011 10:00:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
MAFIA WINS!!!!!

This was an interesting game and Town seemed to be in the lead for quite a while, but mafia stuck it out and pulled through for the win!

Partam Ruhem Lord Rothschild - You are the leader of the illuminati. Because of this, you have been given an Illuminati symbol to protect you from the Symbol Investigator. That symbol is the Pillar. You also have final say on the night kills, and have to decide who will carry out the kill. You win with the Illuminati mafia.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon Lord Bilderberg - You are the brainwasher of the Illuminati. You have no Illuminati symbol. Each NP, you may pick a player to put into a trance. They cannot carry out their night actions while in the trance. You win with the mafia.

Viper-King Lord Rockerfeller - You are the spy of the Illuminati. You have no Illuminati symbol. On odd numbered night period, you may pick one person to track who they visited. You cannot pick the same person more than twice. You win with the mafia.

TheTruthAnalyst E.T, the Nephelim- Your Illuminati symbol is the Eye of Horus. The members of the illuminati worship you, and will follow your orders blindly. Because of this, each night you may choose one person to vote for themselves during the day. It also takes an extra vote to lynch you. If you get night killed by the mafia, you will be recruited into the power illuminati. You win with the town unless recruited. (recruited Np 3)

Andromeda_Z Jay Z- Your illuminati symbol is the Triangle. You have advanced the furthest among the illuminati puppets, so you are bulletproof from a night kill. You win with the town.

Jm_Notguilty Beyonce - Your illuminati symbol is the Pentagram. Each night you may stand in the middle of a pentagram to perform a ritual. On Even numbered nights, you may smear any player's blood on your forehead to get a vision of who visited them. On odd numbered nights, you will rub a player's hair follicle onto a statement that they made that night period to see if it is true. You win with the town.

Man-Is-Good Barack Obama - Your illuminati symbol is the Skull and Crossbone. You have one shot to learn how many mafia members were involved in a lynch. You win with the town.

Squirtle Britney Spears- Your illuminati symbol is the Mickey Mouse ears. You have the ability to put subliminal messages into your songs, and each night period you can play one of your songs to a person of your choosing. This will protect that person from all night actions. You win with the town.

Blackvoid Dave Chappelle- You had an offer to join the Illuminati, but you broke free of their spell. Because of your devotion to Allah, you have the Muslim symbol of the Star and Crescent. You want to warn the other puppets about the horrors of the Illuminati, so you may recruit a member every Odd numbered night into a pm. You may only have 3 players in your pm at once, and it is possible to recruit mafia members, so choose wisely. You win with the town.

LordKnukle Miley Cyrus- You are the newest recruit into the Illuminati club, so you have not yet earned an Illuminati symbol. Because of this, the symbol investigator will assume you are guilty. You win with the town.

Blackhawk Will Smith- Your illuminati symbol is the number 6. Because you study Scientology, you gain secret knowledge from aliens. Each night you may choose a player and learn what their illuminati symbol is. Symbols are given to the puppets (town) so you will know someone is suspect if they have no symbol. You win with the town.

Drafterman Lady Gaga- Your illuminati symbol is the lightning bolt. You have a one-shot power to summon the force from this bolt and strike down a player in the night, killing them. You win with the town.

DevonNetzley Rihanna- Your Illuminati symbol is the Cross of St Peter. You will gain power from this cross by learning all the actions of one dead player. You win with the town.

Players who made it through the last day phase:

Jm_notguilty
Spritle
Drafterman
Blackvoid 2
TheTruthAnalyst

In the end, inactivity played a big part in the game and lost it for town. Unfortunately, I struggled with finding replacements and F-16 ended up hammering himself just to move things along. I made a few mistakes and learned quite a bit about modding, so thank you everyone who played.

I have to give it up to Blackvoid as town. He spotted F-16 AND Partam almost immediately and ended up leading their lynches. Town might have won if not for the fact that the mafia recruit had the poli role, making one townie vote for himself and splitting the votes for the potential last day phase.

Andromeda stepped in as TTA's replacement and made the final night kill decisions, winning the game.

On the mafia side, Partam and F-16 had their work cut out for them and both did a decent job, but possibly aligned themselves with each other in terms of choices too easily.

Overall, good game!!
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Lickdafoot
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12/19/2011 10:08:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Np 1 Actions:

Partam Ruhem- Viper to kill blackhawk
F-16_Fighting_Falcon- Roleblock Jm
Viper-King- Guess Drafterman
Andromeda_Z (passive)
Jm_notguilty- LD Lordknukle "IWWTT"- roleblocked
Man-Is-Good- no action
TheTruthAnalyst- Blackhawk vote for himself
Spritle- Protect himself
Blackvoid- Recruit Lordknukle
Lordknukle (passive)
Blackhawk- No action as of yet
Drafterman- no action
DevonNetzley- MIA

Np 2 Actions:

Partam Ruhem- Viper to kill blackvoid
F-16_Fighting_Falcon- Roleblock JM
Viper-King- guess truth
Andromeda_Z (passive)
Jm_notguilty- watch Blackvoid
Man-Is-Good- no action
TheTruthAnalyst- no action
Spritle- protect himself
Blackvoid- no action
Lordknukle (passive)
Drafterman- kill viper-king
Blackhawk- no action

np 3 actions:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon- Roleblock Drafterman, Kill Truth
Andromeda_Z (passive)
Jm_notguilty- check spritle "i'm the town doctor"
TheTruthAnalyst- spritle vote for himself
Spritle- protect himself
Lordknukle (passive)
Drafterman- one-shot used
Blackvoid 2- checked on viper-king

np 4 actions:

Andromeda_Z (passive)
Jm_notguilty- watch spritle
TheTruthAnalyst- Kill Lordknukle (decided by f-16/ TTA was MIA)
Spritle- protect blackvoid
Drafterman- one-shot used
Blackvoid2- one-shot used

Np 5 actions:

Jm_notguilty - test TTA "Iwwtt"
Andromeda_z 2 - Poli spritle, Kill blackvoid
Spritle-Protect himself
Drafterman - one-shot used
Blackvoid2 - one-shot used
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/19/2011 10:18:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This was a really interesting game. Props to BlackVoid. That was my first ever time being lynched as mafia and I couldn't have asked for a more competent opponent. To make it clear though, I DID NOT hammer myself to move things along. If I felt it was in the best interests of mafia to stall, I would have done so. However, when Andro voted for me, she looked very guilty and I wanted her to end the Day Phase when Andro had the MOST suspicion on her so that she would get insta-lynched the next Day Phase. My self-hammer was more strategic (trying to make Andro look guilty and voting IMMEDIATELY after she voted for me to make it seem like we were working together and she bussed me) and not an altruistic desire to move the game forward so I can't take credit for that.

Regarding town, me and PR were laughing at how easy the MIG lynch was. MiG lynches unfortunately aren't too difficult. It was when BlackVoid used his forensic power to expose us that it was made so difficult. Me and PR did back each other WAY too much which I think ultimately led to being busted by BlackVoid. While I do give credit to BlackVoid, I think you were a bit hasty in lynching Andro.

I really enjoyed arguing with BV, Drafterman, and Andro and it was interesting to see the different arguments that someone can put forth to prove their point.

BlackVoid, I was telling you the Truth all along: Mafia had 3 players and Truth was the recruit! If only you believed me :(

Andro, I was really surprised that you didn't put up a fight. You just VTL'd yourself. Seems hypocritical of me to say I know, but as I explained, my self-hammer was more strategic.

Lickdafoot, I think the game was really well-balanced. Town had two mislynched before they lost which was pretty good. The tie in to the theme was excellent and made for some hilarious moments in the beginning when everyone started suspecting JM. Also, JM, next time DO NOT say that you have an investigative role. That is why we roleblocked you.

I didn't particularly like the recruiting thing though as it depended on luck and chance. If we didn't hit the right person, then we would have a three person mafia which was underpowered. Since we did, we essentially had a 5 person mafia. So it was 3 if you are unlucky and 5 if you are lucky rather than have 4 regardless of luck.

It was still one of the most fun games I played. I let BlackVoid live at great risk to us so as to keep the game more active and challenging and it turned out wonderfully with BV and me pitting our skills against each other.

We had a lot of chances to win even earlier than this. At one point, there were 3/5 townie votes on Spritle but PR wasn't online. Also, had I bussed PR, it would have been easier. Town definitely played a lot better than the mafia did in this game. We had it easy with the MiG lynch and the politician vote which helped a lot.

I want to hear the other's opinions on the game.
Lickdafoot
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12/19/2011 10:30:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:18:45 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
This was a really interesting game. Props to BlackVoid. That was my first ever time being lynched as mafia and I couldn't have asked for a more competent opponent. To make it clear though, I DID NOT hammer myself to move things along. If I felt it was in the best interests of mafia to stall, I would have done so. However, when Andro voted for me, she looked very guilty and I wanted her to end the Day Phase when Andro had the MOST suspicion on her so that she would get insta-lynched the next Day Phase. My self-hammer was more strategic (trying to make Andro look guilty and voting IMMEDIATELY after she voted for me to make it seem like we were working together and she bussed me) and not an altruistic desire to move the game forward so I can't take credit for that.


ahh, smart move.

Yes, the quick lynch andro was one of the deciding factors in town's loss. Andro got her revenge :)
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Andromeda_Z
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12/19/2011 10:33:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, I know, that was not a smart move. Even if I had put up a fight, do you really think anyone would have believed me, though? You're too good at making me look guilty. :) Anyway, like LDF said, I got my revenge.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/19/2011 10:36:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Spritle protected himself AGAIN!? If only I knew how selfish he was, I would have killed JM NP2. I thought the doc would be on him. Well now I know: next time Spritle is the doc, and I am mafia, I should kill whoever I want because Spritle is not going to protect them. LOL just kidding.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/19/2011 10:39:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:33:11 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
Yeah, I know, that was not a smart move. Even if I had put up a fight, do you really think anyone would have believed me, though? You're too good at making me look guilty. :) Anyway, like LDF said, I got my revenge.

Well, I think you could convinced people if you really wanted to. You are a very good player.

This sort of reminds me of the Pixar game: TV getting insta-lynched on the last day leading to a town loss. (LDF would know about that one :D ) That is when I learned how bad insta-lynches can be.
Lickdafoot
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12/19/2011 10:44:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:39:34 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 12/19/2011 10:33:11 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
Yeah, I know, that was not a smart move. Even if I had put up a fight, do you really think anyone would have believed me, though? You're too good at making me look guilty. :) Anyway, like LDF said, I got my revenge.

Well, I think you could convinced people if you really wanted to. You are a very good player.

This sort of reminds me of the Pixar game: TV getting insta-lynched on the last day leading to a town loss. (LDF would know about that one :D ) That is when I learned how bad insta-lynches can be.

ahaha, as mafia, i've done the insta-lynch to win thing twice. it ALWAYS took careful planning with the mafia to get our votes in at once. This is the first time i have seen it done by all townies.

Thanks for the modding comments, f-16, greatly appreciated.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/19/2011 11:00:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:44:03 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:

ahaha, as mafia, i've done the insta-lynch to win thing twice. it ALWAYS took careful planning with the mafia to get our votes in at once. This is the first time i have seen it done by all townies.

If you are talking about the drugged out game, you seem to really like lynching TV and taking the game away. What's up with that?

Thanks for the modding comments, f-16, greatly appreciated.

np
BlackVoid
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12/19/2011 11:22:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Damn.

I was at work when I read Andro's vtl on herself. Had I been home, I would have unvoted immediately as a mafia wouldnt just surrender the game like that. But we still would have lost as I would have just gone after JM instead.

It kind of sucks that TTA had the poli power, as thats really the only reason we lost last NP. I guess that kind of balanced the fact that there was only 3 starting mafia.

F-16, I initially suspected you for a reason I never brought up in the game. You didn't VTL MiG until after PR voted for him. You later said you agreed that we should kill him. But you dhad time to vtl him shortly after me, but you didnt until PR came on. That told me that you were wanting to contribute to the mislynch but not take credit by being the second vote on him.

After that I basically looked at everything you wanted to do and did the opposite. When you defended PR, i knew he had to be guilty.

But I agree with LDF that inactivity was a big problem. I seriously thought for a while that I wasnt ever going to get PR killed because LK would just never get online. Same with F-16. Thankfully we got it done.

F-16 I'm wondering why you were trying to bus Truth?
BlackVoid
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12/19/2011 11:25:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And why did you guys kill me NP2?

Sucks because I specifically asked for Doc on that DP. But Spritle, I'm sorry, but you played the doctor role really foolishly. I don't like to actually say that someone played bad, but come on.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/20/2011 12:13:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
BlackVoid, you were the mason recruiter which is a VERY powerful role. I remembered the first game I played, LDF used it to such great effect. It basically gave us a bunch of confirmed townies and we could knock off the mafia one by one (though we failed). In this game, me and PR knew that if you kept recruiting more and more people, the moment you recruited one of us and died, EVERYONE in that PM would know that we were guilty and lynch us. So, we had to nip the PM in the bud.
BlackVoid
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12/20/2011 12:16:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 12:13:46 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
BlackVoid, you were the mason recruiter which is a VERY powerful role. I remembered the first game I played, LDF used it to such great effect. It basically gave us a bunch of confirmed townies and we could knock off the mafia one by one (though we failed). In this game, me and PR knew that if you kept recruiting more and more people, the moment you recruited one of us and died, EVERYONE in that PM would know that we were guilty and lynch us. So, we had to nip the PM in the bud.

Well I actually said that I could recruit mafia.

I was gonna try and recruit PR on NP2, and force him to give me his character, symbol, and role in under 45 seconds. Since if he was town he'd just be reciting facts, but if he was mafia it would take longer to think up. Unfortunately I never got the chance :/
Viper-King
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12/20/2011 12:17:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
PartamRuhem- Lord Rothschild- You are the Leader of the illuminati. Because of this, you have been given an illuminati symbol to protect you from the Symbol Investigator. That symbol is the pillar. You also have to decide who will carry out the night kills. You win with the Mafia.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon- Lord Bilderberg- You are the Brainwasher of the illuminati. You have no illuminati symbol. Each NP, you may pick a player to put into a trance. They cannot carry out their night actions while in the trance. You win with the Mafia.

Viper-King- Lord Rockerfeller- You are the Contacter of the Illuminati. You have no Illuminati Symbol. If the right person is night killed, they will be recruited into the Illuminati Club. Each night period, you may make one guess as to who that player is. If the person is recruited before the 5th night period, an extra power will be given to you. If the person is not recruited by the fifth night period, you loose the chance to recruit them. You win with the Mafia.

Now that you are acquainted with one another, you can begin with your devilish plans!

Bonus tip: Town characters are out in space.

Night kills will be determined by overall concensus. If the Illuminati leader is to die, F-16 will acquire the godfather's roles.
Friday, December 02, 2011 @ 11:12:53 PM
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PartamRuhem

kickass
Friday, December 02, 2011 @ 11:21:57 PM
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Viper-King

so how do i act
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 5:06:10 AM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Okay, so we essentially have a player who apparently shows up innocent on investigation like a mafia godfather (PR), one who stops another player's night actions with a trance so somewhat like a roleblocker (me) and a recruiter (VK). Also, to recruit, we need to forfeit our night kill (I think).

All our roles are equally important so we need to be careful. Viper-King, I think the firs thing to do is look up a character and role and keep it in mind when you are pressured so it doesn't take too long for you to come up with. I know NOTHING about Illuminati so this will be a challenge for me. How much do you know?

I am going to look for illuminati on wikipedia.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 7:00:24 AM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Lickdafoot, is this the illuminati card game, video game, movie, or real life? There are so many different disambiguations of illuminati I'm not sure which this is.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 11:54:52 AM
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Lickdafoot

Falcon, this game comes from all the hype surrounding the alleged real life illuminati.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 11:55:09 AM
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PartamRuhem

i know nothing of this game. Viper you should post all questions and stuff in here. we will help you.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 11:55:36 AM
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PartamRuhem

I don't even know what illuminati is!
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 12:02:27 PM
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Lickdafoot

This link should help

http://en.wikipedia.org......

Extra clue: type "illuminati puppets" into google
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 12:03:48 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Hey, I was thinking we should make up a symbol and be the first to claim to avoid suspicion. But then again if the symbols stand for something, we are in trouble.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:05:00 PM
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PartamRuhem

How do we fakeclaim with these characters? I feel like if they started doing a MassCC then we would be fvcked.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:11:37 PM
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PartamRuhem

I don't understand viper's role all that well....he chooses someone, and if the die they become one of us? Like a zombie? haha and how hard is that? We just pick someone to kill, and he picks to recruit them...
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:40:11 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Hey, I'm back. See how BH said that only TOWN have symbols and LDF said that symbols are given to protect from the symbol investigator? Well, it is obvious that BH is the "symbol investigator" (cop). We should night-kill him first thing tonight.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:42:41 PM
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PartamRuhem

maybe you are right. Still how does that recruitment thing work?
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:44:22 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

There is only one person that can possibly be recruited. When they are targetted, instead of dying, they join our team.

@ LDF, did you assign roles randomly?
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:45:47 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Also, we already know BH's role. Maybe we should take the pressure off of him tonight. If he reveals that he is the cop, he will def be protected.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:48:49 PM
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PartamRuhem

he could be a vig. I mean, think about it. If he was a vig, it's nice for him to know that everyone has symbols. We know in our roles, why wouldn't the vig know. Which means he would say that.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:49:00 PM
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PartamRuhem

I might want to keep a vigilante around to kill off townies....
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:49:56 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Drafterman said that he doesn't know.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:50:18 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

We don't have a role-reversal. In this scenario, killing the vig is the best.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:50:42 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

But I think he is the cop more than the vig. Either way, he is a prime target.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:53:00 PM
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PartamRuhem

Ok, I see what you are saying. If nothing else happens to incriminate anyone else, we should kill BH. Let's pressure him for a character claim then turn attention on someone else.

Drafter shouldn't live long...he is too good.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:53:16 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

We basically just have two powers: our nk and the roleblock. We also only have 3 people. I am guessing the town is probably not too overpowered. We also stand to gain two more powers: Viper gets an additional power, and the recruit's power. If we recruit wrong, then we are stuck with three people and two powers.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:54:20 PM
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PartamRuhem

F-16, you are just posting fluff! FOS!!!

VTL F-16!
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:54:54 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

I don't know if you want to kill players just because they are good. It can be very frustrating for them (Imagine if you are always picked first). BlackHawk - I don't really care because he doesn't post anyways so he is not likely to affect the game.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:56:09 PM
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PartamRuhem

I don't want them to get his role. Drafter and knuckle seems to be pushing for it.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:57:07 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Time for me to step in and save BH. (to kill him later that is) ***evil grin***
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:57:43 PM
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

We can't have him alluding to an important role and potentially getting the doc on him.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:58:16 PM
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PartamRuhem

that's good. You type a lot, so it won't seem suspicious that you are defending him.

Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 1:59:02 PM
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PartamRuhem

We should pressure someone else.....pressure drafterman for wanting a role claim so bad.

Tell him the possibilites of harmful things happening to roles being outed.
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 5:
BlackVoid
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12/20/2011 12:44:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 12:38:01 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
BV, were you surprised we let you live till the end?

Lol, you really confused me with that. I was entirely certain you were mafia, but I couldnt explain why you left me alive. I had to assume it was WIFOM, but even that didnt seem likely.

Good job in catching on to BH's role so early.
drafterman
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12/20/2011 8:01:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let me get this straight.

DP1: VTNL
DP2: Mislynch (MiG)
DP3: Lynch PR
DP4: Lynch F-16

Plus an accurate vig kill, and town still loses?

Yes, I exclude the mislynch on DP5 and here's why:
DP5 had 6 players, 4 to lynch. TTA would have required 5 votes to lynch, i.e., everyone but himself, but he could have stolen another's vote. If TTA was active at all, the game would have ended then and there.

Poli is strong enough in the end game, making that poli mafia plus requiring an additional vote to kill, guaranteed win for mafia.

Yes, it was down to luck at recruiting him, but once recruited it was pretty much set in stone that they'd win.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/20/2011 8:45:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
@ Drafterman, I thought the game was well-balanced. Neither side were favored. We had a three person mafia if we were unlucky and essentially a five person mafia if we were lucky. Also, if we were unlucky, with a townie poli, the number of townies would increase by 1 because of the poli power. I would have liked for something to not depend on luck but it was pretty much 3 people if we were unlucky and 5 people if we were lucky and we had to find the recruit within 5 NPs and with 10 townies, it was pretty much a 50-50 shot.

DP5 had 6 players, it took 4 to lynch. There were 5 townies and 1 mafia. He could steal someone's vote, so it was essentially 4 townies and 2 mafia. The game was at mislynch or lose. Town could still have won. However, you mislynched and lost. The game wouldn't have ended unless town actually lynched another townie. Yeah, if Truth had been active, all he would have needed were 2 townies, but since he was inactive, 4 separate townies piled on to mislynch so you can't exclude it.

Also, a no lynch and 2 mislynches seems fair enough. I agree that the MiG lynch was a bit too easy for us, but as far as game balance, it was balanced very well. Also, there is the fact that the day we got our recruit, we essentially passed on our night kill so if you assume a five mafia team, you also had to assume that we passed on a kill. So, 1 VTNL, 2 mislynched, 1 successful vig kill, 1 forfeited night kill by the mafia isn't too bad. If you cancel out the vigkill with our passed nk, it was two mislynched straight which wasn't a bad deal.

Also, town had some decent roles like BlackVoid's, and MiG's, a cop, a doc, a bulletproof, an LD/Watcher, and a Mason. You being a one-shot vig weakened you a bit though. As for the mafia, we had a kill and a roleblock initially, and that was it. So, that balances out with the vig being one-shot somewhat. The game was really well put together and neither side had an advantage, really.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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12/20/2011 11:45:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Good game everyone and congrats to LDF. She will do fine as a mod and will likely come up with some very interesting games.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/20/2011 2:44:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 8:45:19 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
@ Drafterman, I thought the game was well-balanced. Neither side were favored. We had a three person mafia if we were unlucky and essentially a five person mafia if we were lucky. Also, if we were unlucky, with a townie poli, the number of townies would increase by 1 because of the poli power. I would have liked for something to not depend on luck but it was pretty much 3 people if we were unlucky and 5 people if we were lucky and we had to find the recruit within 5 NPs and with 10 townies, it was pretty much a 50-50 shot.

DP5 had 6 players, it took 4 to lynch. There were 5 townies and 1 mafia. He could steal someone's vote, so it was essentially 4 townies and 2 mafia. The game was at mislynch or lose. Town could still have won. However, you mislynched and lost. The game wouldn't have ended unless town actually lynched another townie. Yeah, if Truth had been active, all he would have needed were 2 townies, but since he was inactive, 4 separate townies piled on to mislynch so you can't exclude it.

Also, a no lynch and 2 mislynches seems fair enough. I agree that the MiG lynch was a bit too easy for us, but as far as game balance, it was balanced very well. Also, there is the fact that the day we got our recruit, we essentially passed on our night kill so if you assume a five mafia team, you also had to assume that we passed on a kill. So, 1 VTNL, 2 mislynched, 1 successful vig kill, 1 forfeited night kill by the mafia isn't too bad. If you cancel out the vigkill with our passed nk, it was two mislynched straight which wasn't a bad deal.

Also, town had some decent roles like BlackVoid's, and MiG's, a cop, a doc, a bulletproof, an LD/Watcher, and a Mason. You being a one-shot vig weakened you a bit though. As for the mafia, we had a kill and a roleblock initially, and that was it. So, that balances out with the vig being one-shot somewhat. The game was really well put together and neither side had an advantage, really.

First, I'm going to call shenanigans on your sense of "balance." The ONLY reason we had a "chance" DP5 was because TTA was inactive. Sorry, but I can't call a situation where we have a "chance" if the only enemy forfeit but a definite loss if they were active, "balanced." Maybe it's just me, but I think it should be: a "chance" if the enemy is active and a definite win if the enemy forfeit. Combine that with the fact that there was no case to make against TTA and it looked like he wasn't mafia because the kill went through despite TTA being inactive.

You are severely underestimating the power of TTA. He wasn't worth two mafia, he was worth five. The last day phase was an aberration, a fluke; it shouldn't have happened. To give a mafia powers such that they can't possibly lose against 5 townies if he is active is imbalanced IMHO, and means he's the same value as 5 mafia goons.

The initial ratio was 10:3. The recruitment of TTA would have made it 9:4.

Guess what? Under such a situation, the town is ALWAYS at MYLO. A single mislynch puts it at 8:4 and that's a mafia win with TTA. Why?

Well, at 8:4 you need 7 votes to lynch and the town can only bring 7 to bear with TTA's power. With TTA's other power, he needs 8 votes to lynch, though. So he can never be lynched. Yeah, you can lynch other mafia, but with the mafia night kill, you keep the spread between town and mafia the same and the situation remains the same until TTA is the last mafia and can't be lynched for a mafia win.

And it doesn't matter when he is recruited. So long as he is recruited, the town is at MYLO the ENTIRE GAME.

I'm not saying the set-up was unbalanced, I'm saying it allowed for chance to play too much of a role. If the town mislynched at all, and the mafia recruited TTA at all, that is a GUARANTEED mafia win, regardless of anything else.

We only survived as long as we did because TTA was inactive, meaning our supposed lead was an illusion.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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12/20/2011 3:05:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If TTA was active in the last day phase, there would have been two mafia votes on Andro. TTA and Andro's stolen vote. You would still need TWO separate townies to vote for her. It couldn't be decided for instance by one townie. You guys had a chance to win whether or not TTA was active. So, it was still balanced even if he was active. However, since he was active, FOUR townies piled their votes on her because you were all so sure that she was guilty. You weren't in an unwinnable situation. If you had just not insta-lynched and dragged out the DP a bit further, you would have figured it out. I TOLD BlackVoid MANY times that Truth was the recruit since there was no mafia night kill and also Viper had visited Truth. Town just refused to believe that we could have started out with three mafia which I also explained to town and showed why Truth being recruited wouldn't overpower the mafia. They never considered that possibility.

Truth was not worth 5 townies. I don't get the reasoning at all. He INCREASED the number of townies by 1 before he was recruited and increased the number of mafia by 1 after he was recruited.

The initial ratio was 10:3 but since he was a poli, it was 11:3 which were extremely difficult odds considering all we had was a kill and a roleblock and nothing else. After he was recruited, it was 9:5. With a DP1 no lynch, it was 8:5. With a mislynch, it would be 7:5. An nk would put it at 6:5 at LYLO. Another mislynch would have ended the game. No matter which way you look at it, town had TWO mislynches before they lost assuming you DID NOT use your vig kill.

You shouldn't have insta-killed Andro. That was what lost the game. The MiG lynch was understandable. But four townies lynching her? There was no evidence of her guilt at all.
BlackVoid
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12/20/2011 3:13:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 3:05:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
If TTA was active in the last day phase, there would have been two mafia votes on Andro. TTA and Andro's stolen vote. You would still need TWO separate townies to vote for her. It couldn't be decided for instance by one townie. You guys had a chance to win whether or not TTA was active. So, it was still balanced even if he was active. However, since he was active, FOUR townies piled their votes on her because you were all so sure that she was guilty. You weren't in an unwinnable situation. If you had just not insta-lynched and dragged out the DP a bit further, you would have figured it out. I TOLD BlackVoid MANY times that Truth was the recruit since there was no mafia night kill and also Viper had visited Truth. Town just refused to believe that we could have started out with three mafia which I also explained to town and showed why Truth being recruited wouldn't overpower the mafia. They never considered that possibility.

Truth was not worth 5 townies. I don't get the reasoning at all. He INCREASED the number of townies by 1 before he was recruited and increased the number of mafia by 1 after he was recruited.

The initial ratio was 10:3 but since he was a poli, it was 11:3 which were extremely difficult odds considering all we had was a kill and a roleblock and nothing else. After he was recruited, it was 9:5. With a DP1 no lynch, it was 8:5. With a mislynch, it would be 7:5. An nk would put it at 6:5 at LYLO. Another mislynch would have ended the game. No matter which way you look at it, town had TWO mislynches before they lost assuming you DID NOT use your vig kill.

You shouldn't have insta-killed Andro. That was what lost the game. The MiG lynch was understandable. But four townies lynching her? There was no evidence of her guilt at all.

I thought Andro was guilty based off the fact that I believed I had narrowed the players down to where Andro was the only possible mafia left. I really didn't think Truth was guilty because you were trying really hard to kill him, and like I said before, I was just doing the opposite of whatever you suggested. I was not dead-set on Andro like I was on you though. Andro seemed completely pro town all game. The only thing questionably I saw her do was to take her vote off you when you stated sucking up to her. I thought that was BS that you two just fabricated in the mafia PM. So naturally I thought she was the last one.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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12/20/2011 3:16:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 11:45:44 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Good game everyone and congrats to LDF. She will do fine as a mod and will likely come up with some very interesting games.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
jm_notguilty
Posts: 683
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12/20/2011 3:21:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 3:16:40 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 12/20/2011 11:45:44 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Good game everyone and congrats to LDF. She will do fine as a mod and will likely come up with some very interesting games.

----

Yah... not much to say except that this the 2nd or 3rd game where I've made it out alive but so far the most interesting. Thanks for the tip F16 on giving out my role.