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Beginners 6.1 - END GAME

drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/2/2012 4:22:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Town Wins!!

Surviving Players
Xerge
DevonNetzley

Town
DevonNetzley - Vanilla
Jordan56 - Doctor
vmpire321 - Vanilla
USM - Vanilla
Xerge - Cop
The Wise And Venerable medic - Vanilla
The Piercing Intellect of Logic_on_Rails - Vanilla

Mafia
famer - Role Cop
OberHerr - Goon
MasterKage - Goon

Action Summary
DP1:
Town: USM, MasterKage, Xerge, Ober, Jordan, Medic - No Lynch

NP1:
Xerge: Investigate Logic (Innocent)
Jordan: Protect Jordan
famer: Role Cop vmpire (Vanilla), Kill Medic

DP2:
Town: USM, MasterKage, Ober, Logic, Xerge - Lynch famer

NP2:
Xerge: Investigate OberHerr (Guilty)
Jordan: Protect Xerge
Ober: Kill USM

DP3:
Town: Logic, Xerge, MasterKage, vmpire - Lynch Ober

NP3:
Xerge: Investigate Jordan (Innocent)
Jordan: Protect Xerge
MasterKage: Kill Logic (submitted this kill twice, hence the OP)

DP4:
Town: Xerge, MasterKage, Jordan - Lynch vmpire

NP4:
Xerge: Investigate MasterKage (Guilty)
Jordan: Protect Xerge
MasterKage: Kill Jordan

DP5:
Town: Xerge, MasterKage - Lynch Masterkage

Analysis
All in all I think this was an extremely solid game of mafia. Everyone played a good game, and here is my analysis.

Ober made a comment that the set-up was mafia-sided, to which I responded about being able to read and find mafia without solely relying on investigative roles. What I didn't say was that he was right. In an online forum, the Mafia can more easily hide tells than in person and can more easily coordinate activities. That doesn't detract from the importance of reading behavior and being able to find mafia without tells, though.

However, what balances out the mafia-sidedness is the Follow the Cop strategy that was employed (http://mafiascum.net...). This is why the mafia have the Role Cop, to more easily find and kill the Doctor. Unfortunately, their role cop was killed. After famer's death, it depended on Ober and MasterKage's ability to seem like town. While both were good at this, Ober got investigated and that was the end of him.

Another strategy that was discussed, but not used, was counter-claiming the cop. This would have been interesting, but it wasn't tried. If the cop claimed later on, then it would have been a more viable strategy.

Essentially, with this tactic, one of the mafia (preferrably a goon) also claims to be the cop. From the POV of the town, they don't know who to trust, and the doctor doesn't know who to protect. This is particularly effective in a MYLO situation where the town can't afford to mislynch and will let both cop claims live.

Even outside of MYLO the mafia can hope and gamble that either A) the town lynches the true cop or B) the doc protects the mafia cop and the mafia kills the
true cop. Yes, the mafia that counter-claimed will die when finally outed, but in this set-up it may be worth the elimination of the investigative role.

The Good
Most Valuable Newb goes to Xerge (for Town) and MasterKage (for Mafia).

I've watched Xerge in several games and he has good instincts, even if he plays it low-key, and this game was no exception. He was able to accurately pick up on clues in game and use them to choose good investigative targets. For his Zen-like nature in outing criminals, Xerge gets the Charlie Crews award.

MasterKage masterfully integrated himself into the town and made others look suspicious by comparison. Ober was good too, but ... well, I'll get to that later. I definitely LOL'd when MK tried to play off the confirmed Cop's guilty as a "reaction test." For that, MasterKage gets the Till The Bitter End award.

The Bad
Activity. famer was lynched due to inactivity. According to Logic, he was online and being active in general, just not in the game.

Similarly, Devon was game-shy, though he started to interact more toward the end. For this reason, famer will be replaced next game, but Devon will continue, since he did participate.

BE ACTIVE. TALK. Not just because inactivity looks scummy, but because the only real way to learn how to play this game is to actually play it. You can learn the rules and mechanics all day long, but it won't make you any better of a player until you put them to use. Trial and Error, my friends.

Don't be afraid to play and take risks, it's the only way they can pay off.

The Ugly
Ober going toe-to-toe with Logic regarding probabilities. I'm not saying newbs should be afraid to argue against the vets here, but it always helps to make sure you have a leg to stand on. I'm pretty sure this is why Ober got investigated that night and, ultimately, led to this death.

Vmpire insisting Xerge out his reports. I understand vmpire's reasoning here, the problem is: his premise was flawed and not fully thought out. While Xerge probably should have explained this, vmpire should have considered the very likely fact that some of Xerge's innos were dead. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that outing your innos marks them for death, as in the case with Logic. The most damning thing wasn't the suggestion of the plan, but the continued insistence that Xerge should out his reports despite his resistance.

No, those points aren't really "Bad" or "Ugly," I just wanted to use the phrasing. As I said, this was a very solid game and a good showing by the Newbs here, everyone should be proud and I look forward to the next game.

Things are going to start getting interesting.

I have sent new Role PMs out for 6.2, using your existing Role PMs except where I need to send out new ones. If you did not receive a Role PM, please contact me. DP1 for 6.2 will be starting shortly.

Unless they specifically request it, medic and Logic will remain as the in-game vets, PR will remain as mafia advisor, and blackhawk will remain as my co-mod

(thanks to them all, by the way, for helping out; It is greatly appreciated.)
MasterKage
Posts: 1,257
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2/2/2012 8:51:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That was a brilliant game. And yeah the only way to really shrug off the guilty report was to act as if I was laid back and think Xerge was reaction testing me.

Gah! I think we would have won this, had it not been for famer's inactivity.
This signature is full of timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/2/2012 9:20:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/2/2012 8:51:26 PM, MasterKage wrote:
That was a brilliant game. And yeah the only way to really shrug off the guilty report was to act as if I was laid back and think Xerge was reaction testing me.

Gah! I think we would have won this, had it not been for famer's inactivity.

I was worried people might be bored by being mostly Vanilla, but it was a good showing, I think. Especially those last few phases.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/2/2012 10:25:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
TBH, we were sorta set up to fail. Kinda underpowered.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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2/3/2012 12:03:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Decent first game for most of the beginners (besides my friend Famer; going to have to crush him in chess for making the game unfair...) .

Ober and Masterkage both didn't make any really obvious mistakes on DP 1. However, both were very willing to be pacifist and it was always 'after you' and such stuff. This seemed off to me - they didn't seem to have their own opinion or present analysis and such. Of course, town beginners also made some errors, so I couldn't be sure.

Ober then blew it on DP 2 by some repeated mistakes and also his continual lack of conviction in many things 'reading' wise. Masterkage flew under the radar well enough.

The Mafia then made a serious error - they didn't kill me. I was confirmed town, an experienced player and pressing hard for Ober's death. It's true, I had tried to predict my own death in DP 2 as a deterrent to the Mafia targeting me (because of potential doc protection after hyping how the Mafia should kill me) , but they should have killed me right then.

By not killing me the lynch on Ober was fairly certain to happen, and it did. After that the Mafia didn't have much of a hope.

I suggest beginners check out the to and fro between myself and Medic DP 1 - that's an instructive bit of discussion. Also, Drafterman's DP 1 lesson is instructive.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/3/2012 5:15:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/2/2012 10:25:49 PM, OberHerr wrote:
TBH, we were sorta set up to fail. Kinda underpowered.

1. That's actually debatable. I borrowed this set-up from another site that uses it to train newbs.
2. The set-ups are designed to teach, not for balance.
3. The only thing that really did you in was the loss of famer. If, say, MasterKage was RoleCop, it would have been a very different deal. That has nothing to do with set-up and everything to do with plain, simple, luck.
DevonNetzley
Posts: 187
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2/3/2012 6:57:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well I think it's safe to say i've been trained. lol
"If you truly want to do something, the only person standing in your way is yourself"