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Why no LD?

OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:25:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro, and GTFO RP your being a bitter idiot) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.

But, why not use this role a little more? I understand it can be OP somewhat, but it is a good role for the town, and you could always modify the GF role so it can not be detected.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/9/2012 3:28:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:25:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro, and GTFO RP your being a bitter idiot) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.

But, why not use this role a little more? I understand it can be OP somewhat, but it is a good role for the town, and you could always modify the GF role so it can not be detected.

It takes all of the deception, and thus the fun, out of the game. I suppose you could modify the GF role to make it LD-proof . . .
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/9/2012 3:29:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I made the Unmasker role (flavoured LD can only check character claims) because I hate people saying "I win with the town" all the time. As has been said, LD basically becomes a cop that way. I like my role better.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/9/2012 3:32:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:29:06 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I made the Unmasker role (flavoured LD can only check character claims) because I hate people saying "I win with the town" all the time. As has been said, LD basically becomes a cop that way. I like my role better.

Honestly, its not that different from a normal LD. Mafia almost always has to lie about their characters. Sure, townies might lie like Bluesteel did, but thats a very rare exception.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/9/2012 3:33:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:29:06 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I made the Unmasker role (flavoured LD can only check character claims) because I hate people saying "I win with the town" all the time. As has been said, LD basically becomes a cop that way. I like my role better.

I am not sure that this is the problem . . . IMO, the LD minimizes the role of deception because it is easier to discover if the mafia are lying. That makes it infinitely more difficult to play as mafia.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:37:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:33:20 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:29:06 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I made the Unmasker role (flavoured LD can only check character claims) because I hate people saying "I win with the town" all the time. As has been said, LD basically becomes a cop that way. I like my role better.

I am not sure that this is the problem . . . IMO, the LD minimizes the role of deception because it is easier to discover if the mafia are lying. That makes it infinitely more difficult to play as mafia.

Though, it does make them think about the wording of what they are saying. And you could always make it flavored....
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/9/2012 3:38:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:32:03 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:29:06 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I made the Unmasker role (flavoured LD can only check character claims) because I hate people saying "I win with the town" all the time. As has been said, LD basically becomes a cop that way. I like my role better.

Honestly, its not that different from a normal LD. Mafia almost always has to lie about their characters. Sure, townies might lie like Bluesteel did, but thats a very rare exception.

There are some differences though, given how I build games:
1) Checking IWWTT claims is largely random/player-based, while some information can be taken from characters (i.e. I intentionally put in townie characters who seem suspicious)
2) You generally don't have all the character claims for several day phases, while with IWWTT, you can check anyone who has said it and that's usually everyone by no later than DP2. This weakens the role significantly. It also means that if the mafia can come up with a good fake claim, they reduce the chance of being checked.
3) It's better flavoured to match the character I chose, i.e. Scooby Doo.
4) Shut up. :P
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
kyro90
Posts: 4,400
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2/9/2012 6:00:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.

Wtf? Are you still mad because you died and thought it was me? I cant believe your still on that! I had absolutly NOTHING to do with it! In fact I already know who the last mafia is! And just a little FYI: ITS NOT ME.
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PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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2/9/2012 8:26:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 6:00:05 PM, kyro90 wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.

Wtf? Are you still mad because you died and thought it was me? I cant believe your still on that! I had absolutly NOTHING to do with it! In fact I already know who the last mafia is! And just a little FYI: ITS NOT ME.

Correction: We're 99% sure, lol. You never know what will happen.
kyro90
Posts: 4,400
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2/9/2012 8:31:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 8:26:02 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:00:05 PM, kyro90 wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:22:52 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:18:29 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Why is it in all the games I've played, or most so far, there is NEVER an Lie Detector?

I mean, the,"I win with the town" phrase is something said in a lot of games, just to be safe I guess, but it never seems to be that there is a LD.

Why such a lack of LD's in DDO games? Or is it just me?

LDs are generally overpowered because they can bypass Godfather roles and because it is basically impossible to claim that the LD is lying.

There have been a few one-shot LDs in the more advanced games. BlackHawk was LD in FF7, for example, and lovelife was a JOAT with a one-shot LD power. In addition, the townies (meaning everyone except for you and kyro) can purchase LD powers in the Monetary game.

A more fair version of LD was in the HvV game; it could only test the validity of character claims.

Wtf? Are you still mad because you died and thought it was me? I cant believe your still on that! I had absolutly NOTHING to do with it! In fact I already know who the last mafia is! And just a little FYI: ITS NOT ME.

Correction: We're 99% sure, lol. You never know what will happen.

Yeah but I have PROOF!
Allow me to give you my card....
Oh you cant read? Pitty. It says,
You are now holding the card of the Awesome-Steller-Second-to-none-hot-cool-funny-incredible-magical-beautious-cuddly-warm-kitty-kat-like Secretary
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/9/2012 9:47:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I once had a flavor that I couldn't test the same phrase/basic phrase per day.

Like once I could do "I win with the town", but then I couldn't test something like "i'm a townie"
but I could test "i am not in the mafia" "i am ----" role/character etc. It made it more challenging and I think would give it at least a little more balance.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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2/9/2012 11:48:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Simple solution to the waste of time that it 'I win with the town' posts - explicitly state that they aren't in the game.

Now, if we started concocting some really weird LD variants...
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/9/2012 11:50:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 11:48:43 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
Simple solution to the waste of time that it 'I win with the town' posts - explicitly state that they aren't in the game.

Now, if we started concocting some really weird LD variants...

But then that eliminates a potential fake-claim for the mafia.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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2/10/2012 12:01:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 11:50:07 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:48:43 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
Simple solution to the waste of time that it 'I win with the town' posts - explicitly state that they aren't in the game.

Now, if we started concocting some really weird LD variants...

But then that eliminates a potential fake-claim for the mafia.

Look, there's a compromise involved, yes, however, stating such a thing just means cops are more likely - a fake claim for the Mafia.

If a mod brought in a JOAT that could cop and kill each night (meaning investigate then also choose to kill on that night) and protect itself we'd ban it (assuming it could be done every night) for game balance issues. Eliminating LDs is merely a lesser version of my analogy.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/10/2012 3:10:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 1:13:25 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
LD that checks any statement except "I win with the town".

what about "I do not win with the town"?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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2/10/2012 5:00:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 1:13:25 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
LD that checks any statement except "I win with the town".

Or rather any statement which does not relate to alignment.
A good guess as to why they aren't used very often is because the I win with the town bit at the beginning is very annoying.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/10/2012 5:20:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Come on now, just admit my flavoured LD was the best ever. ;)
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...