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A Small Request

royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/10/2012 11:18:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Although I am not going to release the name of the player, most of you are intelligent enough to know of whom I am speaking. A player recently sent me a request to help him co-mod a Concept Game that he had developed (note: this is not the Concept Game that I am about to run) because he felt that most individuals in the community would not respect him enough to participate. In fact, he insisted that I essentially act as the main mod because he thought that too few individuals recognized him as a legitimate member of the community. I agreed with his request and began helping him develop the game. Upon examining some of the original roles that he had developed, I noticed that there was an underlying theme of frustration. Specifically, the player developed roles that were geared towards getting "revenge" at experienced players who belittle him because they consider him a newb.

I understand that most of us, including me, are guilty of this because of the divisive nature of Mafia, but I think that this is unnacceptable. I think that it is wrong for players to feel completely alienated by the community simply because they are not as experienced as others. The individual in question has not only been unfairly labeled as a troll, but is also usually given weak roles by the mods (at one point he even received a "troll" role that served no purpose but to make him look completely silly).

Based on my interactions with this player, I understand that he is doing the best that he can, but that he needs help in order to become better. Instead of just ignoring him or giving him troll roles, we should probably encourage him when he is doing well (there have been two recent cases of this) and give him pointers when he is not.

So, my small request is that we treat every player with respect and help all of them succeed even if they are not the best players on the site.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/10/2012 11:31:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't think that it is fair to discount newer players. For instance, I was pretty serious when I said that in the next game I mod, I would give you a role that lets you vote x 6 based on BlackVoid's role in Death Note.

As for whether mods give strong or weak roles is usually dependent on activity level as opposed to experience. For instance, I give active roles to active players and passive roles to inactive players based on their activity levels. I am not sure how other mods do it but I know BlackVoid for instance also gives better roles to more active players. This moves the game along better.

I wouldn't consider any roles to be "troll" roles. Mods often give suspicious roles to townies to make it easier on the mafia and make the game more fun. These roles can be given to experienced players as well as noobs. For instance, in my game, TV had a role which was a bomb in an aircraft game but also a PGO/Beloved Princess/Vengeful Townie, the kind of role that would demand an instant lynch. Wierd/funny/scummy roles can be given to players of varying skill levels and are an integral part of the game. How those players use those roles depends on their skill and experience.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/10/2012 11:34:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:31:39 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I don't think that it is fair to discount newer players. For instance, I was pretty serious when I said that in the next game I mod, I would give you a role that lets you vote x 6 based on BlackVoid's role in Death Note.

As for whether mods give strong or weak roles is usually dependent on activity level as opposed to experience. For instance, I give active roles to active players and passive roles to inactive players based on their activity levels. I am not sure how other mods do it but I know BlackVoid for instance also gives better roles to more active players. This moves the game along better.

I wouldn't consider any roles to be "troll" roles. Mods often give suspicious roles to townies to make it easier on the mafia and make the game more fun. These roles can be given to experienced players as well as noobs. For instance, in my game, TV had a role which was a bomb in an aircraft game but also a PGO/Beloved Princess/Vengeful Townie, the kind of role that would demand an instant lynch. Wierd/funny/scummy roles can be given to players of varying skill levels and are an integral part of the game. How those players use those roles depends on their skill and experience.

There was a role in your game that I am pretty sure was completely useless to the town . . . I am not calling you out specifically, but this is not just a case of giving scummy roles to players in order to create a more fair game.

This player is also considerably active . . .
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/10/2012 11:41:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:18:30 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Although I am not going to release the name of the player, most of you are intelligent enough to know of whom I am speaking. A player recently sent me a request to help him co-mod a Concept Game that he had developed (note: this is not the Concept Game that I am about to run) because he felt that most individuals in the community would not respect him enough to participate. In fact, he insisted that I essentially act as the main mod because he thought that too few individuals recognized him as a legitimate member of the community. I agreed with his request and began helping him develop the game. Upon examining some of the original roles that he had developed, I noticed that there was an underlying theme of frustration. Specifically, the player developed roles that were geared towards getting "revenge" at experienced players who belittle him because they consider him a newb.

I understand that most of us, including me, are guilty of this because of the divisive nature of Mafia, but I think that this is unnacceptable. I think that it is wrong for players to feel completely alienated by the community simply because they are not as experienced as others. The individual in question has not only been unfairly labeled as a troll, but is also usually given weak roles by the mods (at one point he even received a "troll" role that served no purpose but to make him look completely silly).

Based on my interactions with this player, I understand that he is doing the best that he can, but that he needs help in order to become better. Instead of just ignoring him or giving him troll roles, we should probably encourage him when he is doing well (there have been two recent cases of this) and give him pointers when he is not.

So, my small request is that we treat every player with respect and help all of them succeed even if they are not the best players on the site.

First, I agree with the overall message here, that we should give all players a chance, and treat them with respect and such.

Second, among the entire community there is a VAST discrepancy in player skill and, I can see how it can be frustrating to experienced players to be teamed up with less experienced players.

Take, for example, professional sports. I don't think being bad, or not as good as a major league player would be grounds for belittling someone. But I also don't think it would improve the sport if we removed distinctions between Professional vs. Amateur and simply had teams made up based upon who signed-up first. It would make the game less enjoyable, both as a player and a spectator. That is, sorting people by skill level is GOOD for the game.

Now mafia, as played on DDO, doesn't have any sort of objective ranking system, meaning any sort of skill level is subjective. I ran into this recently in the Beginners game Sign-ups. Yet, there is a desire (and one that isn't out of bounds, I think) to have games which are limited to more experienced and/or serious players. But without a ranking system, it's simply mod discretion and, unfortunately, social pressure. Social pressure being the type of interactions you allude to.

Third, the bolded lines are somewhat contradictory. Purposefuly designing a game just to "get back" at players against whom this person feels slighted isn't going to do anything to improve his or her reputation or standing in this community. If a player needs guidance in order to improve their play in the game, then they need to limit themselves to Beginner games, or Intermediary games should that concept take hold.

If this person recognizes that they aren't as skilled, then it partially upon them to try and learn the game and develop the skills necessary to succeed. If I'm a novice chess player, I'm not going to go into a Master's Chess tournament and demand the same respect as everyone else there.

I'm often called out as an example of a person who quickly took to this game. I don't see that I did anything special. I saw the game, I was interested, and I went through the trouble to LEARN the game. I did research, I looked things up, I asked question, I involved myself. And my first game was the DEXTER game AS TOWN. This was an unconvential game, with several killing third-party roles, multiple flavored and non-flavored cops, a Mason group with a guaranteed Mason spy, and was specifically designed to be anti-town. Yet, as my first game, I managed to help scrape a win out of it.

I think a large part of this has to do with the ages of the people involved. I am constantly surprised at how young some of you people are, and there is a certain level of maturity that is a concern. All I see are words on the screen and I'm probably going to treat people as my peers. AS MY PEERS. This is, after all, what is being asked, right? That we treat people equally? Well, that's what I'm going to do. The problem is, asking a 16 year old to behave like a 30 year old isn't fair. Then again, a 16 year old shouldn't be demanding to be treated equally with a 30 year old unless they're prepared to ACT LIKE IT.

I've taken my frustration out on people here. But any time I do, it's in response to specific actions, not a general dislike of a person. I may be brusk or abrupt, sometimes, but I like to feel I treat everyone about the same. If I didn't want to give newbs a fair shot, I wouldn't be hosting a block of beginner games.

Anyway, at this point I'm rambling a bit, so.... The End.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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2/10/2012 11:42:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's either Viper, kyro90, or HCP.

My vote is on viper.

Either way, I agree with you though.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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2/10/2012 11:46:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Viper, I don't think your a noob. And you have been doing better in every game so keep it up!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/10/2012 11:46:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:45:48 AM, drafterman wrote:
BTW, no one is going to play any concept games modded by Royal now, lol.

LOL, I told him that I did not like the roles. Hopefully he changes them.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/10/2012 11:46:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:34:44 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

There was a role in your game that I am pretty sure was completely useless to the town . . . I am not calling you out specifically, but this is not just a case of giving scummy roles to players in order to create a more fair game.

There were plenty of roles that were completely useless to town or difficult to activate with the primary reason being that I wanted to give mafia a decent chance of winning. They needed to mislynch townies seeing as there were no third parties.

Viper's role for instance was a one-shot doc. I didn't want to give town a regular doc so that mafia could fake-claim it if they wanted. I added the other abilities to make the role less believable and more scummy. It wasn't supposed to be a "troll" role whatever that means. I also added JOAT to the role name to make it seem even more scummy in light of the fact that town had another JOAT. I also put in two vanillas hoping the town would lynch on of them. As I mentioned, the beloved bomb role was ridiculously scummy and useless as well as were a ton of other roles in the game including the ninja vig which was specifically designed to make the vig look like a serial killer and hoping town would lynch their vig. Add to that there were two trackers.

This player is also considerably active . . .

I don't know if you are talking about Viper but if you are talking about his role, I would say that it is a "scummy" role, not a "troll" role. I don't know why you consider any roles to be "troll" roles. A troll is someone who posts inflammatory remarks online. Mafia roles can't be "troll" roles. If I switched TV and Viper's roles, you would still have complained that Viper got a "troll" role and consider the bomb to be a "troll" role.

Whatever role is given to him, you might call it troll if you consider him to be a troll an equate the role with him.

I once got a Mason role that could only recruit players starting NP5. I was a semi-noob at that time and got lynched upon claiming.

BlackVoid was the townie bus driver in Star Trek. I am sure if Viper was given the role, you would have said that BH was giving troll roles to new players.

Any role can be considered useless, anti-town, troll or whatever you want if you equate the person with the role and consider the person to be a troll.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/10/2012 11:51:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:46:37 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:34:44 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

There was a role in your game that I am pretty sure was completely useless to the town . . . I am not calling you out specifically, but this is not just a case of giving scummy roles to players in order to create a more fair game.

There were plenty of roles that were completely useless to town or difficult to activate with the primary reason being that I wanted to give mafia a decent chance of winning. They needed to mislynch townies seeing as there were no third parties.

Viper's role for instance was a one-shot doc. I didn't want to give town a regular doc so that mafia could fake-claim it if they wanted. I added the other abilities to make the role less believable and more scummy. It wasn't supposed to be a "troll" role whatever that means. I also added JOAT to the role name to make it seem even more scummy in light of the fact that town had another JOAT. I also put in two vanillas hoping the town would lynch on of them. As I mentioned, the beloved bomb role was ridiculously scummy and useless as well as were a ton of other roles in the game including the ninja vig which was specifically designed to make the vig look like a serial killer and hoping town would lynch their vig. Add to that there were two trackers.

This player is also considerably active . . .

I don't know if you are talking about Viper but if you are talking about his role, I would say that it is a "scummy" role, not a "troll" role. I don't know why you consider any roles to be "troll" roles. A troll is someone who posts inflammatory remarks online. Mafia roles can't be "troll" roles. If I switched TV and Viper's roles, you would still have complained that Viper got a "troll" role and consider the bomb to be a "troll" role.

Whatever role is given to him, you might call it troll if you consider him to be a troll an equate the role with him.

I once got a Mason role that could only recruit players starting NP5. I was a semi-noob at that time and got lynched upon claiming.

BlackVoid was the townie bus driver in Star Trek. I am sure if Viper was given the role, you would have said that BH was giving troll roles to new players.

Any role can be considered useless, anti-town, troll or whatever you want if you equate the person with the role and consider the person to be a troll.

I have to second the notion here. Mafia games must be balanced, and there are a number of roles that are considered to be Negative Utility

http://mafiascum.net...

This is just part of the game. I mean, we all want to have Dream Roles (JOAT - Unlimited Doc, Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Vig that homes in on Mafia, Bulletproof, PGO that only hurts Mafia, unlimited uses of each, can use each every night) But that's unreasonable. Sometimes you're the Queen, sometimes you're the pawn. Part of Mafia is learning to role with the punches and play the hand that is dealt you.

And I'm out of metaphors to cram in there.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/10/2012 11:57:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:46:37 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:34:44 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

There was a role in your game that I am pretty sure was completely useless to the town . . . I am not calling you out specifically, but this is not just a case of giving scummy roles to players in order to create a more fair game.

There were plenty of roles that were completely useless to town or difficult to activate with the primary reason being that I wanted to give mafia a decent chance of winning. They needed to mislynch townies seeing as there were no third parties.

That seems fair to me. Again, I am not complaining about your game . . .
Viper's role for instance was a one-shot doc. I didn't want to give town a regular doc so that mafia could fake-claim it if they wanted. I added the other abilities to make the role less believable and more scummy. It wasn't supposed to be a "troll" role whatever that means. I also added JOAT to the role name to make it seem even more scummy in light of the fact that town had another JOAT. I also put in two vanillas hoping the town would lynch on of them. As I mentioned, the beloved bomb role was ridiculously scummy and useless as well as were a ton of other roles in the game including the ninja vig which was specifically designed to make the vig look like a serial killer and hoping town would lynch their vig. Add to that there were two trackers.

1X Silencer,
1X Frame,
1X Lawyer,
1X Protect (anyone but yourself).
You win with the town.

There is a difference between scummy and useless. Viper had a one-shot doctor role, but the rest of his abilities were mafia abilities. How in the world does anyone use these effectively as a townie?
This player is also considerably active . . .

I don't know if you are talking about Viper but if you are talking about his role, I would say that it is a "scummy" role, not a "troll" role. I don't know why you consider any roles to be "troll" roles. A troll is someone who posts inflammatory remarks online. Mafia roles can't be "troll" roles. If I switched TV and Viper's roles, you would still have complained that Viper got a "troll" role and consider the bomb to be a "troll" role.

A "troll" role is one that is almost completely useless and makes the user look bad.
Whatever role is given to him, you might call it troll if you consider him to be a troll an equate the role with him.

I admire your attempt to turn this back onto me, but I clearly do not consider him to be a troll. He is a legitimate player, and he should be respected as such.
I once got a Mason role that could only recruit players starting NP5. I was a semi-noob at that time and got lynched upon claiming.

BlackVoid was the townie bus driver in Star Trek. I am sure if Viper was given the role, you would have said that BH was giving troll roles to new players.

That role could actually be useful if the player using it iss experienced. If you can explain to me how any townie can effectively use silencer, framer, and lawyer abilities, then I will accept the fact that the role you gave him was not a "troll" role.
Any role can be considered useless, anti-town, troll or whatever you want if you equate the person with the role and consider the person to be a troll.
Again, I am not equating Viper with the role, and I am not calling you out specifically. Every single member of the this community is guilty of this, so there is no need to be especially defensive about this. I consider Viper to be a legitimate player. I think that it is unfair that some people are alienated simply because they are not as mature as others.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/10/2012 12:00:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:51:30 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:46:37 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:34:44 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

There was a role in your game that I am pretty sure was completely useless to the town . . . I am not calling you out specifically, but this is not just a case of giving scummy roles to players in order to create a more fair game.

There were plenty of roles that were completely useless to town or difficult to activate with the primary reason being that I wanted to give mafia a decent chance of winning. They needed to mislynch townies seeing as there were no third parties.

Viper's role for instance was a one-shot doc. I didn't want to give town a regular doc so that mafia could fake-claim it if they wanted. I added the other abilities to make the role less believable and more scummy. It wasn't supposed to be a "troll" role whatever that means. I also added JOAT to the role name to make it seem even more scummy in light of the fact that town had another JOAT. I also put in two vanillas hoping the town would lynch on of them. As I mentioned, the beloved bomb role was ridiculously scummy and useless as well as were a ton of other roles in the game including the ninja vig which was specifically designed to make the vig look like a serial killer and hoping town would lynch their vig. Add to that there were two trackers.

This player is also considerably active . . .

I don't know if you are talking about Viper but if you are talking about his role, I would say that it is a "scummy" role, not a "troll" role. I don't know why you consider any roles to be "troll" roles. A troll is someone who posts inflammatory remarks online. Mafia roles can't be "troll" roles. If I switched TV and Viper's roles, you would still have complained that Viper got a "troll" role and consider the bomb to be a "troll" role.

Whatever role is given to him, you might call it troll if you consider him to be a troll an equate the role with him.

I once got a Mason role that could only recruit players starting NP5. I was a semi-noob at that time and got lynched upon claiming.

BlackVoid was the townie bus driver in Star Trek. I am sure if Viper was given the role, you would have said that BH was giving troll roles to new players.

Any role can be considered useless, anti-town, troll or whatever you want if you equate the person with the role and consider the person to be a troll.

I have to second the notion here. Mafia games must be balanced, and there are a number of roles that are considered to be Negative Utility

http://mafiascum.net...

This is just part of the game. I mean, we all want to have Dream Roles (JOAT - Unlimited Doc, Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Vig that homes in on Mafia, Bulletproof, PGO that only hurts Mafia, unlimited uses of each, can use each every night) But that's unreasonable. Sometimes you're the Queen, sometimes you're the pawn. Part of Mafia is learning to role with the punches and play the hand that is dealt you.

F_16 is turning this into a strawman. The issue is not that people can randomly (or not randomly) receive horrendous roles or scummy roles (I have had my fair share of those). The problem is that this specific player thinks that he is consistently receiving bad or passive roles and has complained about it to me in private.
And I'm out of metaphors to cram in there.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/10/2012 12:42:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:57:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

1X Silencer,
1X Frame,
1X Lawyer,
1X Protect (anyone but yourself).
You win with the town.

There is a difference between scummy and useless. Viper had a one-shot doctor role, but the rest of his abilities were mafia abilities. How in the world does anyone use these effectively as a townie?

The point is not to use them effectively. The point is to make the player seem like they were mafia and making them look suspicious enough to get lynched. I don't like having too many characters and roles that are obviously town or are easily confirmable. Most roles looked suspicious enough to get lynched. Had I given the ninja-vig role to Viper, and he started killing people from NP1 and got lynched because no one believed that he couldn't be investigated, you might have said that it was a "troll" role as well. The point of Viper's other abilities besides the doctor was not for him to use them but for the mafia's fake-claims to look less suspicious by comparison and make the town work for their win by trying to figure out which claims were legit.

A "troll" role is one that is almost completely useless and makes the user look bad.
Whatever role is given to him, you might call it troll if you consider him to be a troll an equate the role with him.

I admire your attempt to turn this back onto me, but I clearly do not consider him to be a troll. He is a legitimate player, and he should be respected as such.
I once got a Mason role that could only recruit players starting NP5. I was a semi-noob at that time and got lynched upon claiming.

BlackVoid was the townie bus driver in Star Trek. I am sure if Viper was given the role, you would have said that BH was giving troll roles to new players.

That role could actually be useful if the player using it iss experienced. If you can explain to me how any townie can effectively use silencer, framer, and lawyer abilities, then I will accept the fact that the role you gave him was not a "troll" role.

In Medic's no NP game (beginner's 2.3), BlackVoid and later LDF had kidnapping roles which were essentially silencing roles and their roles were the most powerful roles in the games. Would you blame the mod and say that they were given "troll" role?

Again, the point of the role was not to use them effectively but make mafia fake-claims look less suspect in comparison.

Any role can be considered useless, anti-town, troll or whatever you want if you equate the person with the role and consider the person to be a troll.
Again, I am not equating Viper with the role, and I am not calling you out specifically. Every single member of the this community is guilty of this, so there is no need to be especially defensive about this. I consider Viper to be a legitimate player. I think that it is unfair that some people are alienated simply because they are not as mature as others.

I am sure no mod specifically gave him roles because they disrespect him. It is more of a game balance issue.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/10/2012 12:44:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 12:00:32 PM, royalpaladin wrote:

F_16 is turning this into a strawman. The issue is not that people can randomly (or not randomly) receive horrendous roles or scummy roles (I have had my fair share of those). The problem is that this specific player thinks that he is consistently receiving bad or passive roles and has complained about it to me in private.

I am not strawmanning your point. You specifically pointed out an instance of Viper recieving a scummy role in a game I modded. I pointed out that nearly all roles were designed to look scummy and give the mafia a good chance of winning.

I previously modded a game where I gave the town all standard roles and it really imbalanced the game and made it very difficult for the mafia to fake-claim.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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2/10/2012 1:22:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hi Viper:)
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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2/10/2012 1:33:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's unfortunate and disrespectful but people are going to do what they want to do on here. Sportsmanship is given precious little thought by most. It's the same with choosing who to kill off first. I can't remember the last game (other than the beginners) where I was town and lived past night one. It's beginning to feel like a personal vendetta even though I can't recall having issues with any one here. Don't get me wrong there are some good people in this community, unfortunately, alot of decisions here have to do with popularity and being in the clique. Not really much that can be done about it.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/10/2012 1:38:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 1:33:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
It's unfortunate and disrespectful but people are going to do what they want to do on here. Sportsmanship is given precious little thought by most. It's the same with choosing who to kill off first. I can't remember the last game (other than the beginners) where I was town and lived past night one. It's beginning to feel like a personal vendetta even though I can't recall having issues with any one here. Don't get me wrong there are some good people in this community, unfortunately, alot of decisions here have to do with popularity and being in the clique. Not really much that can be done about it.

I don't think anyone has a vendetta against you but are killing you specifically because you are a good player. I think we run into that problem quite a bit where players are killed just because they are good.

The first time I encountered this was in the very first game I played where I gathered the very different strategies used by Mestari and Grey to decide who is killed first. Either you decide who you are going to kill based on whether they have the ability to gain information about the mafia based on their role or you choose who you are going to kill the minute the sign-up sheet is filled. I believe that same strategy was used on you in the games you mentioned.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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2/10/2012 2:04:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Royal, I think it's cool that you are speaking up for for someone who feels outkasted. I think it's an obligation for us more experienced players to encourage newer players to get more involved with the games. Games will grow old and stagnated if no one new gets involved, or if they try and then run off scared.

As far as roles go, it's up to the mod to decide who gets what roles and why. I remember when I was a relatively new player, in the Peter Rabbit game, I was aligned with the mafia but I didn't get to join in on the pm. It sucked and I didn't really understand why it was necessary, but I dealt with it in the best way I knew how. I claimed pgo so mafia wouldn't kill me and town wouldn't investigate me. (spinko ended up calling my bluff and vig killing me though.) I realize now that this was done for balance purposes. Having tougher roles helps us to get better. When people notice that you know what you are doing and how to use the roles, they will give you better ones. For my FF7 game, I tried mixing it up as best I could. For example, even though Xerge is a semi-newb, from the few games that I've played with him, I've noticed he is relatively logical in his decisions. I gave him the best townie role in my game.

It sucks when someone feels people are constantly underestimating them, but that presents them with an opportunity to proove those people wrong.
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kyro90
Posts: 4,400
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2/10/2012 2:14:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:42:08 AM, TUF wrote:
It's either Viper, kyro90, or HCP.

My vote is on viper.

Either way, I agree with you though.

Lol, why me? Mine wont start for a long time lol
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Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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2/10/2012 2:26:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 1:33:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
It's unfortunate and disrespectful but people are going to do what they want to do on here. Sportsmanship is given precious little thought by most. It's the same with choosing who to kill off first. I can't remember the last game (other than the beginners) where I was town and lived past night one. It's beginning to feel like a personal vendetta even though I can't recall having issues with any one here. Don't get me wrong there are some good people in this community, unfortunately, alot of decisions here have to do with popularity and being in the clique. Not really much that can be done about it.

Medic's constantly being killed early brings up an interesting point.

People are now slightly more devious about their killing of good players. They know that if they kill say, Bluesteel NP 1, that they'll be viewed as killing the better players. Solution? Go just a little lower and you aren't killing the 'better players' because 'X very skilled player wasn't killed' . This means that in order to not be seen as killing the best players you always go just a little below. Is it little wonder that this simply results in a different batch of players being targeted repeatedly?
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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2/10/2012 2:30:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 1:38:26 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/10/2012 1:33:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
It's unfortunate and disrespectful but people are going to do what they want to do on here. Sportsmanship is given precious little thought by most. It's the same with choosing who to kill off first. I can't remember the last game (other than the beginners) where I was town and lived past night one. It's beginning to feel like a personal vendetta even though I can't recall having issues with any one here. Don't get me wrong there are some good people in this community, unfortunately, alot of decisions here have to do with popularity and being in the clique. Not really much that can be done about it.

I don't think anyone has a vendetta against you but are killing you specifically because you are a good player. I think we run into that problem quite a bit where players are killed just because they are good.

The first time I encountered this was in the very first game I played where I gathered the very different strategies used by Mestari and Grey to decide who is killed first. Either you decide who you are going to kill based on whether they have the ability to gain information about the mafia based on their role or you choose who you are going to kill the minute the sign-up sheet is filled. I believe that same strategy was used on you in the games you mentioned.

It may not be personal but it's begining to feel like it. I can buy a few games but I've got a streak of like 5-7 games in a row, being killed on night one. It can't be because of my role because I don't live long enough for anyone to know it, and I'm not THAT dangerous to the mafia. Sure I have a good game once in awhile but I'm pretty inconsistent. Regardless, I've been mafia before and argued against killing certain players because they seem to always get killed off quickly, and that just doesn't seem fair.

I can relate to what Royal is talking about though, and I think I know who she's talking about. If I'm right about that person, then I certainly agree with why he feels the way he does because I've seen it. I'm glad Royal is saying something about it and I hope the community at large begins to frown on poor sportsmanship.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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2/10/2012 6:03:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 2:30:42 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 2/10/2012 1:38:26 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/10/2012 1:33:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
It's unfortunate and disrespectful but people are going to do what they want to do on here. Sportsmanship is given precious little thought by most. It's the same with choosing who to kill off first. I can't remember the last game (other than the beginners) where I was town and lived past night one. It's beginning to feel like a personal vendetta even though I can't recall having issues with any one here. Don't get me wrong there are some good people in this community, unfortunately, alot of decisions here have to do with popularity and being in the clique. Not really much that can be done about it.

I don't think anyone has a vendetta against you but are killing you specifically because you are a good player. I think we run into that problem quite a bit where players are killed just because they are good.

The first time I encountered this was in the very first game I played where I gathered the very different strategies used by Mestari and Grey to decide who is killed first. Either you decide who you are going to kill based on whether they have the ability to gain information about the mafia based on their role or you choose who you are going to kill the minute the sign-up sheet is filled. I believe that same strategy was used on you in the games you mentioned.

It may not be personal but it's begining to feel like it. I can buy a few games but I've got a streak of like 5-7 games in a row, being killed on night one. It can't be because of my role because I don't live long enough for anyone to know it, and I'm not THAT dangerous to the mafia. Sure I have a good game once in awhile but I'm pretty inconsistent. Regardless, I've been mafia before and argued against killing certain players because they seem to always get killed off quickly, and that just doesn't seem fair.

I can relate to what Royal is talking about though, and I think I know who she's talking about. If I'm right about that person, then I certainly agree with why he feels the way he does because I've seen it. I'm glad Royal is saying something about it and I hope the community at large begins to frown on poor sportsmanship.

Ok I guess I exaggerated a bit, it's not 5-7 games in a row. I forgot about Death note, and in HvV:Cartoon, I was blown up np 1 killing Blackhawk. So it's only 4 out of the last 5 times that I've been town. Regardless, in Death in Mystere, Solar System, Aerial Warfare, and Starcraft, I was killed night one. Except for death note I haven't seen day two as a townie since Inheritance mafia but even then I wasn't town until later in the game. That gets old really fast and there's no reason for it. It's not like new people are playing and they don't know who got killed first last time.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/10/2012 6:05:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 6:04:10 PM, Serial-Killer wrote:
What happened?

Stuff?
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MasterKage
Posts: 1,257
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2/10/2012 6:07:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 6:04:10 PM, Serial-Killer wrote:
What happened?

O.o

Online:38 Minutes Ago

Yet, she/he posted this two minutes ago...
This signature is full of timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff...
Serial-Killer
Posts: 5
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2/10/2012 6:07:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 6:06:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/10/2012 6:04:10 PM, Serial-Killer wrote:
What happened?

Who are you?

I'm a person that's username is Serial-Killer.
Viper-King
Posts: 4,822
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2/10/2012 6:10:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 6:07:26 PM, MasterKage wrote:
At 2/10/2012 6:04:10 PM, Serial-Killer wrote:
What happened?

O.o

Online:38 Minutes Ago


Yet, she/he posted this two minutes ago...

Maybe because I don't what stalkers and am looking at debates?