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Idea for a mafia role: Death godfather

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/16/2012 2:27:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
After Logic's game, I had this interesting idea for a mafia role: essentially a reverse death miller who would appear innocent and as a townie role upon death.

It could have a big effect on the game. In Death in Mystere for instance, we can see that the Death miller not only made the player with that role look suspicious but made mafia look pro-town for voting for him and players who did not vote for him look scummy. This gave a lot more leverage to the mafia and effected the game more than I initially expected.

Now, how about a role where a mafioso would appear as a townie? The mod could give the mafia godfather a safe role-claim (say doctor) and when that player is killed, he would appear as the doctor. This eliminates the need for the mafia to bus their teammate: they could actually defend him and still look pro-town.

Thoughts?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/16/2012 2:31:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, unnecessary if people think the mafia are overpowered. Adds some strategies for mafia. A similar role is the actress who can pick another players role to appear as on investigation and death.
kyro90
Posts: 4,400
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2/16/2012 2:34:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, I guess that would be good, but it would be WAY to easy for this role because this person can just be inno whenever investigated. So it would be REALLY heard for it to be killed unless by accident lol.
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BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/16/2012 2:52:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've thought about this a few times. It could definently really screw with the town, especially if one townie puts 100% of their effort into lynching someone, only to have them turn up inno. I mean, when the GF dies, not only does it push FOS onto everyone on the lynch train, but it redirects investigators from more important people onto likely townies who lead the lynch.

But I'm still not sure exactly how much effect i could have on the game, just like I didn't know how devastating the death miller would be in my beginner game. I guess the only way to figure out its power exactly is to witness it first hand.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/16/2012 4:46:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sounds devilish, cunning, evil, and VERY mean.......I love it.
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OberHerr
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2/16/2012 5:14:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 4:49:02 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
I've thought about it, too, but I think that's a pretty powerful role. Probably too powerful for the mafia right now.

Unless you gave the town a reasonably powerful setup as well.
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tvellalott
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2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Done it before. lovelife's role (among other things) made her appear innocent upon death. The problem I didn't foresee was that when she had to claim, she didn't know what to claim because I hadn't told her.

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
OberHerr
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2/16/2012 5:19:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Done it before. lovelife's role (among other things) made her appear innocent upon death. The problem I didn't foresee was that when she had to claim, she didn't know what to claim because I hadn't told her.

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

Nah, really?!?
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BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/16/2012 5:20:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

That was basically my GF in the death note game, lol.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/16/2012 5:29:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 5:20:36 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

That was basically my GF in the death note game, lol.

Yeah. How were town supposed to find her? (Except for my one-shot investigation that is?)
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/16/2012 5:33:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 5:29:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:20:36 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

That was basically my GF in the death note game, lol.

Yeah. How were town supposed to find her? (Except for my one-shot investigation that is?)

Marcus could see through it. But I didn't realize the flaw with him not actually being bulletproof until they actually decided to kill him. I'll check things like that a lot more in future games.
tvellalott
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2/16/2012 6:30:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 5:29:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:20:36 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

That was basically my GF in the death note game, lol.

Yeah. How were town supposed to find her? (Except for my one-shot investigation that is?)

Lovelife: You are THE GRINCH, the NINJA FRAMER. You are a bitter, cave-dwelling, green, cat-like creature with a heart "two sizes too small," that lives on snowy Mount Crumpit, north of Whoville. Unfortunately for them, you are also very sneaky. You cannot be investigated guilty. You cannot be tracked. You will not be seen by the watcher. You will appear innocent upon death. Each night you can choose one player and they will appear guilty upon investigation.

Lol, lovelife loved this role. http://www.debate.org... She was lynched DP4 because she didn't have a good fake claim... The problem with that game was that mafia had a really hard time finding reasonable fake claims; belle was lynched DP1 :/. It was a matter of seeing which character claims were weakest and lynching them. Also town were hella powerful.

This sort of result why I now make games with really broad themes so there is a wide range of possible claims for mafia.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/17/2012 1:05:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had that role before.
I was the undetectable framing godfather ninja that appeared innocent at death. And lost lol.
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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/17/2012 1:09:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

---Lovelife: You are THE GRINCH, the NINJA FRAMER. You are a bitter, cave-dwelling, green, cat-like creature with a heart "two sizes too small," that lives on snowy Mount Crumpit, north of Whoville. Unfortunately for them, you are also very sneaky. You cannot be investigated guilty. You cannot be tracked. You will not be seen by the watcher. You will appear innocent upon death. Each night you can choose one player and they will appear guilty upon investigation.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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2/17/2012 1:10:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 6:30:57 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:29:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:20:36 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 2/16/2012 5:18:51 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'm thinking a Ninja Godfather who is given a great fake claim and appears innocent upon death would probably break the game. :P

That was basically my GF in the death note game, lol.

Yeah. How were town supposed to find her? (Except for my one-shot investigation that is?)

Lovelife: You are THE GRINCH, the NINJA FRAMER. You are a bitter, cave-dwelling, green, cat-like creature with a heart "two sizes too small," that lives on snowy Mount Crumpit, north of Whoville. Unfortunately for them, you are also very sneaky. You cannot be investigated guilty. You cannot be tracked. You will not be seen by the watcher. You will appear innocent upon death. Each night you can choose one player and they will appear guilty upon investigation.

Lol, lovelife loved this role. http://www.debate.org... She was lynched DP4 because she didn't have a good fake claim... The problem with that game was that mafia had a really hard time finding reasonable fake claims; belle was lynched DP1 :/. It was a matter of seeing which character claims were weakest and lynching them. Also town were hella powerful.

This sort of result why I now make games with really broad themes so there is a wide range of possible claims for mafia.

lololol, I didn't see that when I posted it xD
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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2/17/2012 1:41:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The idea is interesting but doesn't sound that useful.

The purpose of the death miller is to deceive the town into believing it is in a better position than it is. A death miller can trick the town into thinking it can mislynch when it actually can't for example if the town has deduced the number of Mafia game balance wise. Reversing this and making the town more cautious than necessary is probably not that beneficial to the Mafia.

I do agree that there is suspicion and such based on who was on what lynch and that caution can result in more no lynches than are necessary. However, a Mafia appearing as innocent has the opposite effect as a death miller has. As the death miller's effect is bad that can't be great.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/17/2012 4:49:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Perhaps you could add it as a flavour thing... like you have the Death Miller and you have a Janitor and you add in that at any one time the town can investigate one body in the graveyard, starting from player x until they die and then it's assigned to the next player according to story.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/17/2012 3:10:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it's an interesting role.

It is useful and also a hindrance depending on the situation (as all good roles are). It will be a problem for the mafia if they want to bus someone but can't bus the death godfather.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)