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TV Shows Mafia - Endgame

blackhawk1331
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2/24/2012 11:29:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The mafia has won along with the survivor.

A few questions and observations on my end. First, why lynch f-16/thad1 for having reasoning for his role that was similar to the wiki? The description on the wiki and what I know of the character both came from the same show. Why was anyone suspicious of minor characters? Quite a few of you were in my Inheritance Cycle game where I had a few characters that had appeared for a page or two in the entire series and said about three words. The issue that screwed you the most was taking HCP's word when it came to Gary's character being insignificant. Allison Blake is one of the main characters of Eureka.

I would like any feedback you guys have. Especially negative. I need to know what to make different next time.

VK/Royal II - Dr. Rosen – You are from the show "Alphas". You are the man who organized the Alpha group to work for the government. Since you are in charge, you are the Godfather. However, you personally have no unique abilities, so you only control who the mafia kill and who carries the kill out. Since you aren't a "bad guy" in the show, you don't need to worry about a fake character claim if you don't want to. You win with the mafia.

LK - Monica – You are from the show "Friends". In the show, you are obsessed with cleanliness. However, you have your special closet. In this closet you have all your mess. As a result, you are the mafia janitor because you clean things up. You can only use this ability once, though, because your closet is already so full of clutter that only one body will fit. If you die, the name and role of the person killed will be revealed. Your character isn't a "bad guy", so you don't need to worry about a fake character claim if you don't want to. Since you don't have to worry about a fake claim, you also appear guilty upon investigation unlike normal. You win with the mafia.

Spinko/BS - Marshall – You are from the show "How I met Your Mother". You once had a slap bet with Barney. While no one technically won, Barney lied to make it appear as if he had won. The slap bet moderator, Lily, gave Barney two options. Option 1: Ten slaps then and there. Option 2: 5 slaps that you could give whenever you wanted. Barney took option two. As a result, you should have five slaps. This is a large game, however, and there are likely to be more than five nps, so you get an extra 2 slaps. You, therefore, have seven slaps use when you want. You can only use one per night. Your slap is so powerful that it'll stun the recipient and make it so they can't use their role. In simpler terms, you are a 7 shot role blocker. Each night, pick one person to slap and they won't be able to use their role. You aren't a "bad guy" in the show, so you don't have to worry about a fake character claim if you don't want to. You win with the mafia.

TV - Nina – You are from the show "Alphas". In this show, you have the ability to "push" someone or make them do what you want. Because of this, you are the mafia role thief. Each night, you may choose one person whose role you want to steal, and choose who to redirect the role onto. Your character isn't a "bad guy", so you don't need to worry about a fake character claim if you don't want to. You win with the mafia.

Royal/Thad II - H. G. Wells – You are from the show "Warehouse 13". The Warehouse is a place where artifacts are stored. These artifacts can have effects as benign as changing hair color, or be capable of ending the world. You worked at Warehouse 12 before your daughter was murdered. You had yourself bronzed after her death. Now, you've been un-bronzed. You consider the world to still be too cruel, and have decided that you should end the world. To do this, you would use the Minoan Trident. You can use this weapon np 12 to kill up to 3 townies. It takes so long because you have to recover the curvy part of the trident, the straight part, and then get into position. If it becomes clear that there won't be a np 12, then the np you can use it will change. When you were about to use the trident, Artie tried to stop you by shooting you. You were wearing the Corsican Brothers' Vest however, and the pain you felt was felt by him. As a result, you can use this vest one np to have all actions used on you redirected to the people who performed said actions. Your third and final power is mason spy since you were a member of the Warehouse. It is advisable that you don't claim JOAT. Your character is the only member of the mafia that was ever a "bad guy". You may want to consider a fake character claim. You win with the mafia.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
blackhawk1331
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2/24/2012 11:32:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Xerge - Barney – You are from the show "How I Met Your Mother". You are very full of yourself and treat people like sh!t. You've stolen from your friends, made jokes at their expense, and even used Ted's name and occupation to hook up with a girl which almost caused him to lose his girlfriend. As a result, you are the miller. You aren't all bad, though. When it really matters, you pull through for your friends. When Ted was hit by a bus, you left an important business meeting, and ran to to the hospital because you couldn't catch the first cab you saw. You were so intent on reaching the hospital that you weren't paying attention and got hit by a bus. You did all of this when Ted was refusing to talk to you and said that the two of you weren't friends. Since you care so much about your friends, you are also the 2-shot bodyguard. Two shots meaning that you die the second time you target someone who was targeted for a nk.

TUF - Gary – You are from the show "Alphas". Your special ability allows you to see signals and access the information in them. One of the ways you use this ability is by tapping into security cameras to keep track of targets. As a result, you are the watcher and tracker. Every night, you may pick one person and see everyone who visits them and everyone they visit. You win with the town.

HCP - Joey – You are from the show "Friends". In that show, you are an actor. You are also exceptionally stupid and forgetful. Due to your forgetfulness, you have forgotten what role you were supposed to have. Due to your stupidity, you didn't write it down. Since you can still act, you've decided you'll just pretend to be someone else. As a result, you can pick one dead player and adopt their role and affiliation. When you do this, the town will be told that someone remembered their role. For now, you win with the town. That could change, however, should you pick to become mafia. There is one rule to your power. Whoever you pick *must* be mafia or town.

Andro - Bo – You are from the show "Lost Girl". You are a Fae. Your power allows you to suck the life from people for sustenance. This isn't what makes you unique, though. You are unique because, unlike every single other Fae in the world, you have chosen to not choose one of the two parties. You now just want to survive, so you are the survivor. Since I don't like the idea of a survivor winning by themselves because it makes it too hard imo, you can win alongside the town or mafia. Check the last post on this page. http://www.debate.org...

PR - Sheriff Carter – You are from the show "Eureka". You are the town's cop in that show, so you are the cop here. Each night you may pick one person to investigate. At the end of the np, you will receive your results. You win with the town.

Koopin/BV II - Pope – You are from the show "Falling Skies". You are a criminal, but have made a major break through for the humans. You invented bullets that could pierce the armor of the Mechs. As a result, you are the one shot vig. You can give this power to anyone if you want. If you want to give it away, tell me. If you wish to use it, then pick your target. There is a regular vig, however, so you must be careful in claiming. ALSO, YOU ARE FORBIDDEN FROM REVEALING THAT YOU KNOW A VIG EXISTS. IF THEY OUT THEMSELVES, YOU MAY NOT CONFIRM THEM USING THIS. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THIS RULE WILL RESULT IN A MOD-KILL. You win with the town.

LL/TUF II - Tom Mason – You are from the show "Falling Skies". In that show, you do many things from recon to doctoring. As a result, you are the JOAT. You have 4 1-shot abilities. You can doc, watch, track, and kill. If you want to use an ability, tell me which ability and your target. You win with the town.

F-16/Thad - Skylar – You are from the show "Alphas". You have a super human intellect, and can make exceptionally complex devices out of nothing. As a result, no one can catch you if you don't want to be caught. You are bulletproof because of this. You win with the town.

LDF - Dullahan – This is not a name. It is your species. You are from the show "Lost Girl". The Dullahan are hired out to perform hits in the show. Therefore, you are the vig. Each night, you may pick one person to kill. You are the only one without a name, so you may want to mention this when claiming. You win with the town. NOTE: You are the only person in the game that is a species, not a specific person.

Medic - Jinks – You are from the show "Warehouse 13". For some reason, you can always tell when people are lying. You are a lie detector. Every night you may choose a player and check to see if they told the truth about their character. You can only check character claims because otherwise you are a cop. This is meant to help keep you from being over powered. There is only one exception. There is one player whose "win with" statement you can check. It should be fairly obvious which player it is when the statements are out, but if you're unsure you can ask. You win with the town.

MK - Mrs. Frederic – You are from the show "Warehouse 13". When you see a person that would be a good Warehouse agent, you recruit them to work for you. You are the mason recruiter. Each night, you may pick one person to add to the masons. If you pick a mafia member, you will die.

Gary - Allison – You are from the show "Eureka". You are the head doctor in that show. As a result, you are the doctor here. Every night you may choose one person to protect. You win with the town.

BV - Jo – You are from the show "Eureka". You are the head of the jail in GD and the security group. As a result, you are the jailer. Each night, you may choose one person to jail. This person will be protected from nks, but they will also be role blocked. You win with the town.

NP1
Xerge – waive
koopin – waive
Partam -
LDF – waive
HCP – NA
MK – recruit xerge
LL – track royal
BV – Jail TV
TUF – target royal
TV – redirect HCP to f-16
Medic – Check Xerge's claim of Barney
GaryMFOak – doc BV
Royal – Waive
Knuckle – kill/janitor LDF
VK – N/A
Spinko – waive
f-16 – n/a
andro – n/a

NP2
- Xerge – waive
- koopin – waive
- Partam – check BV
- HCP – NA
- MK – recruit TV (killed by this)
- LL – watch medic
- BV – Jail medic
- TUF – target HCP
- TV – redirect medic onto himself
- Medic – Check andro
- GaryMFOak – doc andro
- Thaddeus – Waive
- Knuckle – kills TUF
VK – N/A
- Bluesteel – RB's HCP
- andro – n/a

NP3
- Xerge – guard LL
- koopin – waive
- Partam – check medic
- HCP – waive
- LL – doc self
- BV – Jail LL
- Medic – Check andro
- GaryMFOak – doc andro
- Thaddeus – waive
- Knuckle – kills BV
- VK – N/A
- Bluesteel – RB's LL
- andro – n/a

NP4
- Xerge – waive
- BV – kill knuckle
- Partam – check gary (redirected to andro)
- HCP – redirect PR onto andro
- TUF2 – kill HCP
- Medic – Check HCP "I'm Joey from friends"
- GaryMFOak – doc HCP
- Thaddeus – waive
- Knuckle – kill Medic
- Royal2 – N/A
- Bluesteel – RB BV
- andro – n/a
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/24/2012 11:38:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, my only real complaint is that there were basically 2 mafia RBers, which is extremely powerful. We had 2 in Inheritance too, but mafia only had 4 people that game and town was extremely powerful as well. Two RBers makes it really tough for town to get results.

Other than that this was a pretty good game. We could have won if mafia didn't get extremely lucky and have 2 vig kills on mafia fail last night.

We'll get them next time TUF.
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/24/2012 11:43:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 11:38:43 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Ok, my only real complaint is that there were basically 2 mafia RBers, which is extremely powerful. We had 2 in Inheritance too, but mafia only had 4 people that game and town was extremely powerful as well. Two RBers makes it really tough for town to get results.

Other than that this was a pretty good game. We could have won if mafia didn't get extremely lucky and have 2 vig kills on mafia fail last night.

We'll get them next time TUF.

I was pissed when that happened too. I also didn't count on HCP going for mafia at all, let alone RBer. That was a mistake.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/24/2012 11:43:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 11:40:22 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Oh yeah we also could have won if the doc didn't modkill themselves :/ we were probably gonna lynch HCP that DP.

I was prepared to bus HCP to the moon and back.
blackhawk1331
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2/24/2012 11:46:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 11:43:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/24/2012 11:40:22 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Oh yeah we also could have won if the doc didn't modkill themselves :/ we were probably gonna lynch HCP that DP.

I was prepared to bus HCP to the moon and back.

I really wanted to see you guys lynch HCP the day before. He had already decided to take tv's role, so he was playing pro-mafia. The mafia didn't know that, though, so I thought you guys would consider it an easy lynch. That would have been funny as hell.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/24/2012 11:48:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, I didnt even see HCPs role. So mafia ended up with 6 people, plus 2 godfathers (HCP showed inno almost all game), and 2 RBers, which basically turned into 3 when HCP inherited TV. Ouch.
Hardcore.Pwnography
Posts: 4,720
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2/25/2012 8:58:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 11:43:58 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 2/24/2012 11:38:43 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Ok, my only real complaint is that there were basically 2 mafia RBers, which is extremely powerful. We had 2 in Inheritance too, but mafia only had 4 people that game and town was extremely powerful as well. Two RBers makes it really tough for town to get results.

Other than that this was a pretty good game. We could have won if mafia didn't get extremely lucky and have 2 vig kills on mafia fail last night.

We'll get them next time TUF.

I was pissed when that happened too. I also didn't count on HCP going for mafia at all, let alone RBer. That was a mistake.

Well, I figured Mafia were the winning team at that point. And thanks for the support royal.
BlackVoid
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2/26/2012 1:06:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I just realized this, but 5 of the 6 mafia were given "good" characters and didnt even have to fake claim. So Medic's role was pretty much useless. Thats one thing I'd suggest changing in future games. I'm not saying giving mafia good characters is bad, just add a different investigator instead of a character LD. Medic was basically a vanilla.
blackhawk1331
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2/26/2012 11:38:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 1:06:27 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
I just realized this, but 5 of the 6 mafia were given "good" characters and didnt even have to fake claim. So Medic's role was pretty much useless. Thats one thing I'd suggest changing in future games. I'm not saying giving mafia good characters is bad, just add a different investigator instead of a character LD. Medic was basically a vanilla.

Yeah. I realized that later on. Other than tv, though, they all fake claimed.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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2/26/2012 12:05:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The one thing I really didn't like was that the third party could win with one of the factions, instead of having their own seperate win condition. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference but I don't see the point in having third parties if they win with the town, or mafia. The other negative about that is that survivors, and mafia faking survivor, now have a precedent to point to and argue that they can win WITH. It just seems like this adds another element of difficulty for the town because this will inevitably lead to division due to differing philosophies.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/26/2012 1:06:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 12:05:01 PM, medic0506 wrote:
The one thing I really didn't like was that the third party could win with one of the factions, instead of having their own seperate win condition. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference but I don't see the point in having third parties if they win with the town, or mafia. The other negative about that is that survivors, and mafia faking survivor, now have a precedent to point to and argue that they can win WITH. It just seems like this adds another element of difficulty for the town because this will inevitably lead to division due to differing philosophies.

I think this hits the nail on the head for a lot of issues, especially the perception of DDO Mafia favoring the Mafia.

There's a setup that I play all the time on Epic. Basically it's 7 random town roles, 3 random mafia roles, and 2 random 3rd party roles and, in Epic, joint wins are possible.

Yet there is no bias because the mechanics of Epic are completely known and consistent.

You always know that a 3rd party can joint. Personally, I agree with 3rds being able to joint as it makes them more playable. Medic ask what's the point, but you aren't removing their win condition, you are just simply eliminating the exclusivity of win conditions.

For example, in Epic, Fool can (and often does) joint with the Mafia. How? Well, at LYLO, the mafia and fool all vote to lynch the fool. Since the fool dies and the mafia achieve 50% simultaneously, they both achieve their win conditions simultaneously.

Now, I only bring this up as an example. I know many people don't like Epic. My point is, each game is different. How the mods implement the roles and handle role interactions, is different from game to game. This makes it harder for town to devise strategies for winning. It is an added burden and almost forces people to use mod psychology which is undesired and only works against you if the mod is trying to do something different than they normally do.

The only solution would to be to either A) all mods adhere to a single set of game mechanics or B) be completely open about those game mechanics when starting the game.
blackhawk1331
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2/26/2012 1:12:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 12:05:01 PM, medic0506 wrote:
The one thing I really didn't like was that the third party could win with one of the factions, instead of having their own seperate win condition. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference but I don't see the point in having third parties if they win with the town, or mafia. The other negative about that is that survivors, and mafia faking survivor, now have a precedent to point to and argue that they can win WITH. It just seems like this adds another element of difficulty for the town because this will inevitably lead to division due to differing philosophies.

I won't be doing that again. It made it too easy to win. I was going for easier, but giving that link and allowing you to check that statement was definitely too much.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/26/2012 1:23:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow, drafterman's analysis is really interesting. It makes me interested in playing Epic. I like the idea of third party collusion with the mafia.

Anyways, I've never seen a third party try to play pro-mafia. I've even seen serial kills admit to being SK and promise to play as a town vig. Since they always try to play pro-town in order to survive, throwing in third party who can win with either faction is unfair. Or at least it's no different from making that person a townie.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
medic0506
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2/26/2012 1:25:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To me, win with means basically, a tie. Two different entities both complete different win conditions, therefore a tie. I hate ties. Again this is personal preference, but even if I'm third party I want to either win, or lose. First place goes to me, or it doesn't, it goes to someone else. Third parties winning with one of the factions is the same as saying that cult wins with the town, if that's the case then why not just take the cult out of the equation??
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/26/2012 1:29:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 1:25:39 PM, medic0506 wrote:
To me, win with means basically, a tie. Two different entities both complete different win conditions, therefore a tie. I hate ties. Again this is personal preference, but even if I'm third party I want to either win, or lose. First place goes to me, or it doesn't, it goes to someone else. Third parties winning with one of the factions is the same as saying that cult wins with the town, if that's the case then why not just take the cult out of the equation??

Allowing Joint wins in general doesn't mean that there are never exclusive options. Take the fool example. The fool must be lynched, the mafia must attain at least 50%. There's no reason why those conditions can't happen at the same time.

But Cult and Town and Mafia conditions are all exclusive, because they pertain to elimination of other factions and attaining a majority.
BlackVoid
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2/26/2012 1:41:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
But allowing joint wins makes winning way too easy. With Andro essentially confirming that she could win with the town or mafia, there was no incentive for either side to kill her, making her win almost guaranteed.
drafterman
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2/26/2012 1:50:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 1:41:32 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
But allowing joint wins makes winning way too easy. With Andro essentially confirming that she could win with the town or mafia, there was no incentive for either side to kill her, making her win almost guaranteed.

Not really. First, people have to actually believe her claim that she was, in fact, the survivor.

Second, she presents an unknown element. Why keep her alive if she can win with the other team? If the town starts losing, they'll realize that she'll side with the mafia and kill her, and vice versa.