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Mafia Theory Discussion - The Politician

drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/29/2012 9:11:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why the Mafia-sided Politician is so powerful:

Rather often, the Politian role is often treated as being the value of an extra player of whatever side he is on. Thus, a Town Politician is treated as two townies and a Mafia Politician is treated as two mafiosos. In response, then, it is thought that, to combat the politician, you simply need an extra person on the other side.

The problem with this thinking is that 1 vote = 1 player, as each player has a vote to cast. So, the Politician steals 1 vote, so, by adding an extra player, you regain that vote, right? No. This thinking ignores that sometimes, when you add another player, you increase the votes needed to lynch. When this happens, you need to add an additional player to restore the power of the side who's vote is stolen.

Consider a simple LYLO situation:

2 Town vs. 1 Mafia

3 players, ergo 2 votes to lynch.


Make that Mafia a Politician, and now town can't muster enough votes to lynch Mafia and Mafia wins. Situation is no longer LYLO, it's simply LOSE.

Add a townie, then:

3 Town vs. 1 Mafia Politician

4 players, ergo 3 votes to lynch.


The town STILL can't muster enough votes to lynch the mafia because, by adding another townie you increased the number of votes needed to lynch and, since a townie's vote is still stolen, the town can muster up enough votes. So... add another townie:

4 Town vs. 1 Mafia Politician

5 players, 3 votes to lynch.


The town can finally lynch the Mafia politician.

In the Illuminati Mafia, the mafia politician was also Popular, requiring an extra vote to lynch. Again, popular thinking resulted in believing it would only need a single extra player to combat this, but in actuality it's the same as being a Mafia politician.

2 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia

3 Players, 2 votes to lynch, 3 for Popular Mafia; Not enough Town to lynch.

3 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia

4 Players, 3 votes to lynch, 4 for Popular Mafia; Not enough Town to lynch.

4 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia

5 Players, 3 votes to lynch, 4 for Popular Mafia; Just enough Town to lynch.


Now, let's combine the two:

4 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia Politician

5 Players, 3 votes to lynch, 4 for Popular Mafia; Not enough Town to lynch (since 1 Townie's vote is stolen).

5 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia Politician

6 Players, 4 votes to lynch, 5 for popular Mafia; Not enough Town to lynch (since 1 Townie's vote is stolen).

6 Town vs. 1 Popular Mafia Politician

7 Players, 4 votes to lynch, 5 for popular Mafia; Just enough Town to lynch.


So, rather than being worth 2 extra people, as was thought, he was worth 5 extra people.

Talk about Mafia Juggernaut. 6 vs. 1 Popular Mafia Politician and game is at LYLO.

The addition, or existence of normal Mafia doesn't change the situation. Once you're beyond the threshold, the Town can still eliminate the non-popular mafia, but not the popular mafia politician and any such situation will eventually collapse into those previously discussed; A Mafia Event Horizon, if you will.

Because of all this, I think Mafia Politician is one of the most powerful Mafia-sided roles, if not the most powerful if kept secret and alive.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/29/2012 12:22:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, I hate politicians. It makes the mafia unfairly powerful as opposed to fairly powerful. Another downside is that the politician prevents people from voting to pressure other players and that is always a downside - a weak form of silencing. It discourages activity since a player who can't vote is less likely to be active.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/29/2012 12:25:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 12:22:27 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Yeah, I hate politicians. It makes the mafia unfairly powerful as opposed to fairly powerful. Another downside is that the politician prevents people from voting to pressure other players and that is always a downside - a weak form of silencing. It discourages activity since a player who can't vote is less likely to be active.

These are good points. And also why Townie Poli is basically like a Rolelbocker; more of a hindrance until end game.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/29/2012 1:01:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mafia politicians are super powerful because they can end the game an entire phase earlier. Mods sometimes underestimate how powerful that is.

However, townie politicians are sometimes useless. The entire game is in their hands at the end, and they don't know who the mafia is, so they are often just as likely to choose wrong as right. In good hands, it can be powerful, but in the wrong hands, you're taking the final lynch decision out of the rest of the townies' hands.

It's why no one on this site uses a "king" who gets final say on who to lynch and just takes suggestions from everyone.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)