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Townies playing badly

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This isn't supposed to be an attack on any individual but I'll mention specific games. There was a recent thread where Thaddeus mentioned that the mafia were being overpowered. Royal and TUF too have made similar threads. I want to ask them: Do you really think mafia is overpowered or town is just inactive and running around in circles. I'll add more once the current games end.

Let's go down Thaddeus's list for now:

1) TV shows - mafia - Town had no qualms about lynching other townies but never really zoned in on mafia members.

2) Thing - mafia - Unusual, concept game.

3) Juggernaut - mafia - Unusual, concept game.

4) Gangster - mafia - Town happily lynched grey, thad, koopin etc but never really went after mafia members.

5) Death in mystere - mafia - There was no resistance to lynching LordKnukle in DP2. Viper-King was lynched DP4 VERY QUICKLY. Yet the same townies who were so willing to lynch Viper and LK never wanted to lynch Bluesteel. Why were they so quick to lynch townies but not mafia? Then LDF was lynched (yeah, fail on my part). Then we were at MYLO. Two townies quickly voted for me and gave mafia pretty much the whole day to hammer whenever they wanted offering the game up on a silver platter.

6) ???? - mafia win - True, this wasn't really town's fault as much as the mod's but LK was constantly close to getting lynched. Jordan was considered for lynching just to CHECK Royal's and LDF's results. But when LDF and Medic were accused = huge resistance to their lynches. The game was twisted but not unwinnable. Had Medic and LDF been lynched, we would have won.

7) DDO players - mafia (technically doesn't count because there is no town)

8) Inheritance - town - Eragon was unkillable so w/e.

9) HvV- (cartoon) - Mafia win - This was pretty close.

10) Starcraft-Mafia win - No comment

11) Monk-Mafia win - Again, getting a few votes on Xerge was a monumental task but no one gave LK the same consideration before lynching him.

12) Aerial Warfare-Mafia win - No comment

13) Death Note-Survivor win (Mafia-second place) - Town mislynched again and again and again and again. Vmpire was lynched due to inactivity. Drafterman was gang-raped and lynched. Then Andro was lynched for no reason at all. Yet, to lynch LDF, town hemmed and hawed and ran around in circles until Royal probably gave up on town and decided "I win anyway, who gives a crap if town wins."

14) Final Fantasy 7-Mafia win - Town no lynched for no reason despite sensor results that could have broken the game.

15) Solar System-Mafia win - This was one game where town played well. The Serial Killer killed all townies so they had a stroke of bad luck.

16) Monetary-Mafia win - Town again played well, and it was very, very close.

17) Misfits mafia - Town win - close game

Analysis:
Town happily lynches players like Royal and LordKnukle for no reason at all and sometimes me and Thaddeus despite the fact that we all tried to help the town. Viper and Greyparrot were lynched too but they DID NOT try to help the town unlike RP, LK, Thad and me so I don't really blame the town for that.

Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

Also, town are ridiculously reluctant to vote for mafia members. I won't name names but sometimes it seems like their brains work backwards and they ONLY want to lynch townies to the exclusion of mafia. Sorry for the rant.
vmpire321
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3/11/2012 9:05:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
13) Death Note-Survivor win (Mafia-second place) - Town mislynched again and again and again and again. Vmpire was lynched due to inactivity. Drafterman was gang-raped and lynched. Then Andro was lynched for no reason at all. Yet, to lynch LDF, town hemmed and hawed and ran around in circles until Royal probably gave up on town and decided "I win anyway, who gives a crap if town wins."

Lol.
Thaddeus
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3/11/2012 9:13:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think you are right to an extent. I believe we should have a few smaller games to reduce inactivity issues, and fewer off the wall roles, as they are much harder to balance (not saying none as they are quite fun. but too many just screws with balance and detracts from the behaviour analysis the game is founded upon)
Lickdafoot
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3/11/2012 9:17:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

stop hatin. read Sci-Fi mafia dp 4, the first one. I was lynched and I was town.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Irkutsk
Posts: 114
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3/11/2012 9:19:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mafia in real life is much much much more fun!
Life is like radiation. A uniquely damaging event. Perhaps I will live another thirty years. Perhaps I will die tomorrow. But I have no regrets. I was sometimes forced to make difficult choices. But enough is enough. As Vladimir would say, you can only die once, make sure it is worth it.
BlackVoid
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3/11/2012 9:19:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:17:41 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

stop hatin. read Sci-Fi mafia dp 4, the first one. I was lynched and I was town.

Lol you were VTL'd by one person.
Lickdafoot
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3/11/2012 9:23:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:19:55 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 3/11/2012 9:17:41 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

stop hatin. read Sci-Fi mafia dp 4, the first one. I was lynched and I was town.

Lol you were VTL'd by one person.

The point of that was that I am never mafia. So it is never beneficial to lynch me :)
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Lickdafoot
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3/11/2012 9:26:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it might come down to this. mafia members are much more careful with what they say. If they have a good claim, a townie will always be noticed before them, because they are more reckless and more inclined to say something that strikes someone as odd.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/11/2012 9:26:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:17:41 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

stop hatin. read Sci-Fi mafia dp 4, the first one. I was lynched and I was town.

First off, only ONE person voted for you.

Secondly, I am not hating on you. I think you are a wonderful person who is a joy to interact with. That never stopped me from going after you when you are mafia though. The thing is, mafia is a game. The most important thing to do as town is to try hard to figure out who the mafia are, weigh the evidence against each, and vote to lynch the mafia members.

I am really sorta hating on people who go "I am not lynching LDF" "LDF has contributed a lot to the game, I'd rather lynch an inactive" "I trust LDF" "LDF's word means more to me than anything else". Point is, that is not the way the game is supposed to be played. If you refuse to VTL mafia members, mafia will win. Simple as that.

It is not just you. There are plenty of times when mafia was fairly obvious but town just decides to run around in circles. When the time comes to lynch townies, the mob mentality kicks in and the townies are lynched.

It is the fact that town always does what is bad for them, refuses to lynch mafia, and then blames it on game balance that ticks me off. (I am not talking about Thad, TUF or Royal here. I am talking about IN GENERAL, how people blame it game balance where it is basically THEIR FAULT for losing.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/11/2012 9:37:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:26:07 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I think it might come down to this. mafia members are much more careful with what they say. If they have a good claim, a townie will always be noticed before them, because they are more reckless and more inclined to say something that strikes someone as odd.

I think that is true but townies need to understand that and jump to conclusions based on their "reads" especially if those reads happen to be wrong.
Zaradi
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3/11/2012 9:40:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:23:13 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 3/11/2012 9:19:55 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 3/11/2012 9:17:41 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Town never lynches Bluesteel or Lickdafoot even when there is obvious evidence. Especially LDF. When LDF plays mafia, town probably go like "Okay, I want LDF to beat me in this game so I won't VTL her even if she is mafia. Let's see what happens." herp derp

stop hatin. read Sci-Fi mafia dp 4, the first one. I was lynched and I was town.

Lol you were VTL'd by one person.

The point of that was that I am never mafia. So it is never beneficial to lynch me :)

Such a horrible lie. You're always godfather.
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Lordknukle
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3/11/2012 9:41:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think that the crux of the town failure really boils down to either trusting a person too much or trusting a person too little. Town can never find middle ground and this ultimately leads to their failure.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/11/2012 10:44:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How to win games as town:

1) LDF is *always* mafia. That is just a fact. If roles are assigned non-randomly, assume that the mod made her mafia because they like watching her kick as.s.

2) I am always town.

3) I can read LDF pretty well. When she is mafia, I will catch her and point out that she is mafia.

4) Everyone VTL her and get her lynched.

5) Town will win.
BlackVoid
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3/11/2012 11:42:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 8:58:39 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

1) TV shows - mafia - Town had no qualms about lynching other townies but never really zoned in on mafia members.

Town could have won this game easily. Mafia had 6 members and three roleblockers. Even then, we might have won, but our doctor protected a mafioso from my vig kill, then modkilled himself.

2) Thing - mafia - Unusual, concept game.

Agreed.

3) Juggernaut - mafia - Unusual, concept game.

Agreed.

4) Gangster - mafia - Town happily lynched grey, thad, koopin etc but never really went after mafia members.

Grey wasn't playing, he was trolling. I'll lynch him every game if he plays like that.

Thad I kind of see where you're coming from, but we had nothing else and even you were on board with it.

We never lynched Koopin.

5) Death in mystere - mafia - There was no resistance to lynching LordKnukle in DP2. Viper-King was lynched DP4 VERY QUICKLY. Yet the same townies who were so willing to lynch Viper and LK never wanted to lynch Bluesteel. Why were they so quick to lynch townies but not mafia? Then LDF was lynched (yeah, fail on my part). Then we were at MYLO. Two townies quickly voted for me and gave mafia pretty much the whole day to hammer whenever they wanted offering the game up on a silver platter.

I wasnt in this game, but didn't you guys get a guilty on LK?

6) ???? - mafia win - True, this wasn't really town's fault as much as the mod's but LK was constantly close to getting lynched. Jordan was considered for lynching just to CHECK Royal's and LDF's results. But when LDF and Medic were accused = huge resistance to their lynches. The game was twisted but not unwinnable. Had Medic and LDF been lynched, we would have won.

This game was unwinnable. Every role in the game was anti town. Bluesteel even admitted that he purposely made our roles worse when we started playing well.

7) DDO players - mafia (technically doesn't count because there is no town)

Agreed.

8) Inheritance - town - Eragon was unkillable so w/e.

Yeah and 80% of town has confirmable roles :/

9) HvV- (cartoon) - Mafia win - This was pretty close.

We had 2 newbs deciding the final lynch :/

10) Starcraft-Mafia win - No comment

Same.

11) Monk-Mafia win - Again, getting a few votes on Xerge was a monumental task but no one gave LK the same consideration before lynching him.

From what I've heard, you're right here.

12) Aerial Warfare-Mafia win - No comment

Yeah, most people seem to agree that this was a legit win.

13) Death Note-Survivor win (Mafia-second place) - Town mislynched again and again and again and again. Vmpire was lynched due to inactivity. Drafterman was gang-raped and lynched. Then Andro was lynched for no reason at all. Yet, to lynch LDF, town hemmed and hawed and ran around in circles until Royal probably gave up on town and decided "I win anyway, who gives a crap if town wins."

I totally agree here. Town really put no thought into lynches in this game.

14) Final Fantasy 7-Mafia win - Town no lynched for no reason despite sensor results that could have broken the game.

Unsure, wasn't in game.

15) Solar System-Mafia win - This was one game where town played well. The Serial Killer killed all townies so they had a stroke of bad luck.

Agreed.

16) Monetary-Mafia win - Town again played well, and it was very, very close.

17) Misfits mafia - Town win - close game

Town had an every night reviver, how was mafia going to win again?

Also, lets not forget town wins in Super Smash Bros and DBZ.

Anyway, my point is that there are other explanations for mafia victories other than "towns are playing bad". Every now and then the mafia really is OP. Sometimes they just play well. A couple times town does play poorly, but this is a minority. I brought this up in Royal's thread about this. Before this recent string of mafia wins, the town had win 9 straight games. But nobody was saying town was OP back then. We just acknowledged that it was a natural trend that would and has passed.
BlackVoid
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3/11/2012 11:47:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 9:13:00 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
I think you are right to an extent. I believe we should have a few smaller games to reduce inactivity issues, and fewer off the wall roles, as they are much harder to balance (not saying none as they are quite fun. but too many just screws with balance and detracts from the behaviour analysis the game is founded upon)

I'm sure you're talking about my time travel power, among others. I think its important though for mods to try new things like that. No, they probably won't balance perfectly, but thats inherent to their nature. Any time you try a new role, its going to be unbalanced because its never been tried before. But if it doesnt work out the first time around, it sets the groundwork for how to improve it in the future.
BlackVoid
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3/11/2012 11:49:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 10:52:04 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
^ lmao. I've been mafia an average amount of times. about 1/3.

Yeah, I'm the one thats always mafia/cult. Even when I pick my character I get scum.

Inheritance - "Lemme be Oromis, he's a good townie."

"Well he's not in the game, so here's a scum character for ya"

DBZ - "Lemme be 16, he's a good townie."

"Ok, but actually he's Cult. Trolololol."
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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3/12/2012 12:41:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This has been discussed many times before.

Town has been playing badly, yet you've also got to say that the complexity of games has risen over time. More complexity tends to result in more Mafia wins. It's a mix of powerful Mafias and complex games along with some poor town playing that is costing games.

Everybody should realise that the Mafia have strong players and often very persuasive players. In Death in Mystere I made the Mafia from some of the best players. I also place emphasis on persuasive - some players are naturally very combative, and such a trait is a bad one when playing as Mafia. Imagine I pick a Mafia of LK, Ober and Royalapaladin. They are all good players, yet they're very combative and this will seriously hamper them.

There's a reason why certain players are so hard to lynch - they put forward the best possible cases, win friends and persuade people beautifully. I remember that in my first 15 games or something I was never lynched. I've only ever been lynched a handful of times. Does that say something? It should - there's an art to not being lynched.

Just very briefly on your criticism of Viper's lynch in Death in Mystere, he blatantly lied with no justification. No reason not to lynch.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 1:01:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 12:41:10 AM, Logic_on_rails wrote:

Just very briefly on your criticism of Viper's lynch in Death in Mystere, he blatantly lied with no justification. No reason not to lynch.

But Logic, a *good* townie would know that those lies are a result of Viper messing around and the real mafia are to be found within one of the cops (you wouldn't put 4 confirmed townies in the game), and one of the protective roles (there wouldn't be a jailer, doc AND watcher in the game. With doc dead, it was either the jailer or the watcher. With mafia RBer dead, it has to be the watcher.

I was mad at Royal for a bit but ultimately she was right. The real culprits were an inactive and bad town (koopin popping in to place votes on townies, never posting analysis that severely weakened town). I still think that town had themselves to blame and if they carefully analyzed the game, they would have been able to skate over Viper's lies and zone in on the real mafia instead of jumping up and saying "Viper lied. He is scum. Die now."

I think you are right about the part that some players are difficult to lynch like you, LDF, and to a certain extent Bluesteel (although some people often think of him as a genius criminal mastermind so the difficulty in lynching is somewhat neutralized).

It is also easy to buddy up to other people and build alliances when you are mafia but is difficult to do so as town. But the important thing is that *good* townies should be willing to realize that the people defending them may in fact be mafia and have evil intentions.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 1:08:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:06:16 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
LDF is hard to lynch unless either me or F-16 are mafia with her. Then she tends to die pretty quickly :/

I know right?! Everytime I am town, she seems impossible to lynch. Everytime I am mafia with her, hoping to learn some skills from her, she gets lynched super-quick. Cases in question: Classic mafia, Gangsters mafia, Brawl.
Logic_on_rails
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3/12/2012 1:09:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:01:05 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/12/2012 12:41:10 AM, Logic_on_rails wrote:

Just very briefly on your criticism of Viper's lynch in Death in Mystere, he blatantly lied with no justification. No reason not to lynch.

But Logic, a *good* townie would know that those lies are a result of Viper messing around and the real mafia are to be found within one of the cops (you wouldn't put 4 confirmed townies in the game), and one of the protective roles (there wouldn't be a jailer, doc AND watcher in the game. With doc dead, it was either the jailer or the watcher. With mafia RBer dead, it has to be the watcher.

I was mad at Royal for a bit but ultimately she was right. The real culprits were an inactive and bad town (koopin popping in to place votes on townies, never posting analysis that severely weakened town). I still think that town had themselves to blame and if they carefully analyzed the game, they would have been able to skate over Viper's lies and zone in on the real mafia instead of jumping up and saying "Viper lied. He is scum. Die now."

I think you are right about the part that some players are difficult to lynch like you, LDF, and to a certain extent Bluesteel (although some people often think of him as a genius criminal mastermind so the difficulty in lynching is somewhat neutralized).

It is also easy to buddy up to other people and build alliances when you are mafia but is difficult to do so as town. But the important thing is that *good* townies should be willing to realize that the people defending them may in fact be mafia and have evil intentions.

What would you have the town do F-16? The fault was at Viper's hands, not the town's. You can't just excuse complete lies because a player isn't brilliant. That establishes poor precedents. A good townie will execute liars because otherwise the town will never win.

Yes, placing votes on Viper without analysis doesn't help. However, it's not like the town has much choice. Can you imagine trying to lynch somebody else than a confirmed liar? Good luck on that.

We both agree that town play could improve. You however would have the good town players be wizards who can somehow see every single possibility and determine which liars are Mafia. I would contend that I am no magical wizard.

I ask, am I a poor town player?
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 1:21:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:09:05 AM, Logic_on_rails wrote:

What would you have the town do F-16? The fault was at Viper's hands, not the town's. You can't just excuse complete lies because a player isn't brilliant. That establishes poor precedents. A good townie will execute liars because otherwise the town will never win.

I think a feel for spotting when someone is lying helps. For instance, it was quite obvious he was telling the truth when he mentioned "Iron Constitution." You used that phrase in Pixar vs Dreamworks to describe TV's role (bulletproof). That and the more obvious fact that you wouldn't put a noob in the mafia.

Come to think of it, I question whether it is a good idea to put all the best players in the mafia. If town has only 1-2 good players, it is a *monumental* task getting town to lynch the mafia. By this, I don't mean noobs. I mean players who are simply bad at reading people and consistently make poor decisions. Mafia would be too overpowered skill-wise. I'd like to know what you think of this, though.

Yes, placing votes on Viper without analysis doesn't help. However, it's not like the town has much choice. Can you imagine trying to lynch somebody else than a confirmed liar? Good luck on that.

See? That's why it is so frustrating dealing with townies and that was the point of my thread (irrational townies).

We both agree that town play could improve. You however would have the good town players be wizards who can somehow see every single possibility and determine which liars are Mafia. I would contend that I am no magical wizard.

I ask, am I a poor town player?

I think you are one of the few good town players as you are often not influenced by stuff that are my pet peeves: obvious buddying, lynching newer players, lynching based on fear ("I will hate Royal if she beats me in this game" - which is how HCP cast his vote in Misfits I believe), not lynching based on bias ("I trust xxx, I just do", etc).
BlackVoid
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3/12/2012 1:37:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:08:09 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/12/2012 1:06:16 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
LDF is hard to lynch unless either me or F-16 are mafia with her. Then she tends to die pretty quickly :/

I know right?! Everytime I am town, she seems impossible to lynch. Everytime I am mafia with her, hoping to learn some skills from her, she gets lynched super-quick. Cases in question: Classic mafia, Gangsters mafia, Brawl.

Maybe its because she cracks under the pressure of living up to your expectations or something, lol.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 1:43:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:37:34 AM, BlackVoid wrote:

Maybe its because she cracks under the pressure of living up to your expectations or something, lol.

F-16: I am so glad I got another chance to be mafia/cult with you. Now you can teach me how to be a bad@ss mafia member.

LDF (Looks at me): Oh sh.it, my water broke, oh, I am getting lynched now. Why did you *have* to be on my team.
Logic_on_rails
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3/12/2012 1:51:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:21:14 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/12/2012 1:09:05 AM, Logic_on_rails wrote:

What would you have the town do F-16? The fault was at Viper's hands, not the town's. You can't just excuse complete lies because a player isn't brilliant. That establishes poor precedents. A good townie will execute liars because otherwise the town will never win.

I think a feel for spotting when someone is lying helps. For instance, it was quite obvious he was telling the truth when he mentioned "Iron Constitution." You used that phrase in Pixar vs Dreamworks to describe TV's role (bulletproof). That and the more obvious fact that you wouldn't put a noob in the mafia.

Would it be obvious to anybody who wasn't in Pixar vs. Dreamworks? Could it be an ingenious fake claim? I'll grant that your ability to read me as a mod was amazing. However, to deem it 'obvious' is a bit much. My game had many subtle hints like this one. My next game will also have subtly as a theme. My game after that may be a radical design. Point is, they're subtle for a reason.

Come to think of it, I question whether it is a good idea to put all the best players in the mafia. If town has only 1-2 good players, it is a *monumental* task getting town to lynch the mafia. By this, I don't mean noobs. I mean players who are simply bad at reading people and consistently make poor decisions. Mafia would be too overpowered skill-wise. I'd like to know what you think of this, though.

Simple. In my next game I'll have to increase the number of players I give invitations to so as to eliminate inactivity and poor play.. Besides, I gave the town more than 1-2 good players in Death in Mystere (you, Royal, LDF, Medic I've heard you call good before) .

Yes, placing votes on Viper without analysis doesn't help. However, it's not like the town has much choice. Can you imagine trying to lynch somebody else than a confirmed liar? Good luck on that.

See? That's why it is so frustrating dealing with townies and that was the point of my thread (irrational townies).

Yeah, but you claiming that we shouldn't have lynched Viper is what's ludicrous to me. Imagine that you say to the town 'we shouldn't lynch the liar who could well have been trying to confirm multiple Mafia teammates because he's known to make mistakes. Instead let's lynch the watcher whose results have been verified by multiple people yet can be called into question because of a preponderance of similar roles.' That would cause chaos and maybe get you lynched.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 2:04:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 1:51:47 AM, Logic_on_rails wrote:

Simple. In my next game I'll have to increase the number of players I give invitations to so as to eliminate inactivity and poor play..

I think inviting players is a really good idea in general although it didn't work too well in my HP game.

Yeah, but you claiming that we shouldn't have lynched Viper is what's ludicrous to me. Imagine that you say to the town 'we shouldn't lynch the liar who could well have been trying to confirm multiple Mafia teammates because he's known to make mistakes. Instead let's lynch the watcher whose results have been verified by multiple people yet can be called into question because of a preponderance of similar roles.' That would cause chaos and maybe get you lynched.

That is kind of the point I was trying to make. A town who doesn't spend time analyzing the game would lynch the hapless noob floundering around with a bunch of different role-claims. A more careful town would try and put the pieces together and lynch the player who is more likely mafia.

Anyways, Viper's lynch was an extreme exageration. I was talking about in general, how town is so quick to VTL other townies but never mafia members. I'll post more about this after TV's game ends.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/12/2012 2:16:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I get the part about being combative though, logic. You have FINALLY convinced me to pressure noobs and nobody else has put a stronger case than you about pressuring noobs. I'll be pressuring noobs my next game :)
Logic_on_rails
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3/12/2012 2:20:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/12/2012 2:16:20 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I get the part about being combative though, logic. You have FINALLY convinced me to pressure noobs and nobody else has put a stronger case than you about pressuring noobs. I'll be pressuring noobs my next game :)

As much I do gracefully take the comment, I must ask, what case did I present that others have not?

The only point I can think of is the combative point, yet that should only be a problem if you're Mafia. Hope you're not planning to pressure new players only when you're Mafia. That could be a scum tell.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it