Total Posts:8|Showing Posts:1-8
Jump to topic:

How do you root out mafia members?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2012 10:48:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've seen various styles of playing by different players in the game but some players seem to rely on certain evidence more than others in order to find mafia members. I see three main ways to find mafia. Feel free to add more and discuss.

1) Rely on investigative results

This is the most cautious style of playing. Getting a guilty result on a player or having them tracked to a kill makes it seem likely that they are mafia. The good part about this is that it reduces the likelihood that a player's read on another player is wrong and decreases the likelihood of a mislynch (although this is arguable).

2) Analyze claims

This is my favorite way to play mafia and is borderline between cautious and aggressive. Going deep into a player's claim and trying to figure out whether or not said mechanics can exist in the game and whether the claim can exist in relation to other claims in the game. For instance, if someone is claiming a 10th investigative role, they are likely not all town. The benefit to this is that it relies on concrete evidence and analysis with the downside being that it can take a lot of time to figure out the mafia as town would need to squeeze out a lot of claims and justifications.

3) Analyze behaviours

This is the most aggressive and "bare-bones" way to play mafia. Figuring out various scum behaviours and lynching players based on those behaviours. The upside is that night actions are not wasted, it can also be fun as opposed to tedious. The downside is that not all players can read behaviors effectively and can often be completely wrong with very few players having the gift of reading behaviours (Danielle, Bluesteel, and LDF spring to mind).

Which do you think is your style of playing?

I am not sure if people can cleanly fit into any category but I think different players have different ways of finding mafia.

Would you add any more categories?
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2012 11:02:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I try to do a mixture of all those, though I'm unlucky at reading behaviors. Like, if I play aggressively and go after people based off behaviors, I tend to be wrong. Then if I think people are behaving weird but don't say anything because I could be wrong, then they end up being mafia :/

Claim analyzing is cool but works best when the game is simple, which isn't very often nowadays. Usually you could catch fake claimers if they fake some kind of exotic and more complex role than anyone else (kind of like LDF is Harry Potter) but the issue is that recently complex roles are all over the place.

Like, I could see Royal fake claiming cop every third NP, forensic investigator every other third NP, and Doc every last third NP, plus 2 subconditions that she is 1/4 Bulletproof and has a 1 in 3 chance of roleblocking her target, and she could get away with it because there's probably some town roles in the game that are just as weird.

Thats why investigative results = win.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2012 11:03:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 11:02:55 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
I try to do a mixture of all those, though I'm unlucky at reading behaviors. Like, if I play aggressively and go after people based off behaviors, I tend to be wrong. Then if I think people are behaving weird but don't say anything because I could be wrong, then they end up being mafia :/

Claim analyzing is cool but works best when the game is simple, which isn't very often nowadays. Usually you could catch fake claimers if they fake some kind of exotic and more complex role than anyone else (kind of like LDF in Harry Potter) but the issue is that recently complex roles are all over the place.

Like, I could see Royal fake claiming cop every third NP, forensic investigator every other third NP, and Doc every last third NP, plus 2 subconditions that she is 1/4 Bulletproof and has a 1 in 3 chance of roleblocking her target, and she could get away with it because there's probably some town roles in the game that are just as weird.

Thats why investigative results = win.

Fix'd.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2012 11:21:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, I think the complexity of the games is another reason why it is getting more and more difficult for town - but I think that is a good thing.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2012 6:06:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A few other ideas that are also apply, even if somewhat covered by the other categories:

4) Game mechanics / moderator

Game mechanics is a separate matter to roles. The style of a game and in particular the preferences of a moderator can sometimes be a useful, if hazardous tool. Reading into game mechanics and lynch strategies and so forth, bigger picture stuff, can get you quite far. Also, the moderator leads onto perhaps the tool that I use quite a bit in my analysis as opposed to others:

5) Precedents

Past experience and such is the best way to prepare. Analysing game balance and moderator's likely roles through looking at their previous modded games or their favourable comments helps. Most important though is that you get a feel for a player based on their past actions. I was once suspected because I didn't type up even a paragraph for a post. That's precedent for you. I expect certain claims and playstyles from different types of players as well. I know that most people will think me a hapless fool for using precedents, but I think they probably fail to realise that they themselves use them.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2012 6:49:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 10:48:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've seen various styles of playing by different players in the game but some players seem to rely on certain evidence more than others in order to find mafia members. I see three main ways to find mafia. Feel free to add more and discuss.

1) Rely on investigative results

This is the most cautious style of playing. Getting a guilty result on a player or having them tracked to a kill makes it seem likely that they are mafia. The good part about this is that it reduces the likelihood that a player's read on another player is wrong and decreases the likelihood of a mislynch (although this is arguable).

2) Analyze claims

This is my favorite way to play mafia and is borderline between cautious and aggressive. Going deep into a player's claim and trying to figure out whether or not said mechanics can exist in the game and whether the claim can exist in relation to other claims in the game. For instance, if someone is claiming a 10th investigative role, they are likely not all town. The benefit to this is that it relies on concrete evidence and analysis with the downside being that it can take a lot of time to figure out the mafia as town would need to squeeze out a lot of claims and justifications.

3) Analyze behaviours

This is the most aggressive and "bare-bones" way to play mafia. Figuring out various scum behaviours and lynching players based on those behaviours. The upside is that night actions are not wasted, it can also be fun as opposed to tedious. The downside is that not all players can read behaviors effectively and can often be completely wrong with very few players having the gift of reading behaviours (Danielle, Bluesteel, and LDF spring to mind).

Which do you think is your style of playing?

I am not sure if people can cleanly fit into any category but I think different players have different ways of finding mafia.

Would you add any more categories?

4) Kill everyone
I mean, this is only partially tongue in cheek. Some townies play as though a single mislynch ends the game and as if it was actually possible to go through the entire game without a single death. Mislynches can actually be beneficial in the sense that:

1. You can analyze the people that pushed for the lynch.
2. The information revealed on the flip can incriminate/confirm people.
3. The odds of finding mafia are increased since there are proportionately more mafia.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2012 11:20:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/28/2012 6:49:16 AM, drafterman wrote:

4) Kill everyone
I mean, this is only partially tongue in cheek. Some townies play as though a single mislynch ends the game and as if it was actually possible to go through the entire game without a single death. Mislynches can actually be beneficial in the sense that:

1. You can analyze the people that pushed for the lynch.
2. The information revealed on the flip can incriminate/confirm people.
3. The odds of finding mafia are increased since there are proportionately more mafia.

By "some townies," I assume you are referring to me. It is true that mislynches are useful after the deed has been done. However, there is no reason to actively push for a lynch which you know is likely a mislynch. It is sometimes more beneficial to lynch mafia members even if the reasoning for lynching them is more convoluted than for the mislynch. Cases in point: In Board games, I am sure you would have theoretically pushed for TUF's lynch as opposed to BlackVoid's but the latter would have been more helpful than the former. ????? mafia, you pushed for Royal's and Knukle's lynches rather than Medic's and LDF's but again the latter would have put town in a better position.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2012 11:34:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/28/2012 11:20:01 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/28/2012 6:49:16 AM, drafterman wrote:

4) Kill everyone
I mean, this is only partially tongue in cheek. Some townies play as though a single mislynch ends the game and as if it was actually possible to go through the entire game without a single death. Mislynches can actually be beneficial in the sense that:

1. You can analyze the people that pushed for the lynch.
2. The information revealed on the flip can incriminate/confirm people.
3. The odds of finding mafia are increased since there are proportionately more mafia.

By "some townies," I assume you are referring to me.

No, I wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

It is true that mislynches are useful after the deed has been done. However, there is no reason to actively push for a lynch which you know is likely a mislynch. It is sometimes more beneficial to lynch mafia members even if the reasoning for lynching them is more convoluted than for the mislynch. Cases in point: In Board games, I am sure you would have theoretically pushed for TUF's lynch as opposed to BlackVoid's but the latter would have been more helpful than the former. ????? mafia, you pushed for Royal's and Knukle's lynches rather than Medic's and LDF's but again the latter would have put town in a better position.

I'm not sure I ever suggested mislynching when I believe it is a mislynch, but some townies want incontrovertible evidence with a notorized statement by the mod himself indicating that a person is Mafia before they even consider placing a vote on that person.

Unless it's DP1 or MYLO, I don't think we should ever end a day with a No Lynch.