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5Ds Mafia Endgame

royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/21/2012 9:59:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Link to Role PM Document: https://docs.google.com...

Analysis
MVP obviously goes to BlackVoid for catching every single member of the Mafia as well as the Survivor and killing all of them except LDF (on whom he lead a lynch). I learned a great deal just by watching him carefully evaluate all of the information available and figuring out exactly who was scum. I thought that F_16 scared me before I saw BV dominate in this game :)

I think that the Mafia loss should be attributed to poor playing on the Mafia's part however. The Mafia was clearly overpowered, yet they did not bother to use their powers effectively. The Fake Source role could have been used to obtain a few mislynches vis as vis the Journalist. The tailor role could have been used to counterclaim a good townie role and then cast that individual as scum. There was also a problem with cooperation on the Mafia team. Mafia is a game that requires team unity, and unless it exists, the Mafia is bound to fail. Most importantly, however, the Mafia failed to use the duel mechanic properly. If all members of the Mafia had dueled, they could have easily killed at least four extra people for free.

I apologize for the myriad of mistakes that I made.

Please feel free to provide feedback.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/21/2012 10:00:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Potatoes!
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/21/2012 10:02:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
my pm said nothing about vests only working during the day >_>. I guess that explains Thads death then.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
airmax1227
Posts: 13,233
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4/21/2012 10:04:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It was a fun game and was well modded regardless... Mistakes happen...

Either way, as mafia we had a chance but made a few crucial mistakes that cost us the game.. Nonetheless I had fun, and thought it was an interesting and fun experience
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/21/2012 10:04:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What were the duels about?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/21/2012 10:04:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:03:35 PM, drafterman wrote:
Most Valuable Mafioso: TUF

LOL, as a townie he did more than the actual mafia did >_>
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/21/2012 10:08:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Now to wait for the next game to start up.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Buddamoose
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4/21/2012 10:27:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM, TUF wrote:
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.

Games over TUF, we can go back to singing kumbaya and eating s'mores now ;)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/21/2012 10:30:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:17:48 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
If anyone knows how to upload the mafia PMs that would be great.

I will need the consent of the Mafia members. There was some fighting in the thread, and I don't want to revive unpleasant issues.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/21/2012 10:32:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM, TUF wrote:
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.

TUF, the problem wasn't your FOS. The problem was like I said a million times was your complete and utter refusal to listen to anything I was saying.

You knew damn well what I was talking about when I was trying to get you to admit you were wrong about me being the roleblocker. Yet you were playing coy and clever, probably so you'd look all the more smarter when you thought I would flip mafia.

Maybe if you had spent less time fvcking with me, and more time actually listening to me, it could have turned out differently.

Just about everything you said was FALSE and yet you didn't hesitate from literally saying it was IMPOSSIBLE that I could be town. Then you have the gall to portray yourself as an asset to the town.

And no, with a KNOWN bus driver, I would not have gone after you like you went after me because I actually understand how this game works. Like I told you, I've personally used the bus driver role to kill a mason recruiter before.

Yeah, I understand that the driving scenario was false but it was the only plausible scenario from my POV.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/21/2012 10:34:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:32:42 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM, TUF wrote:
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.

TUF, the problem wasn't your FOS. The problem was like I said a million times was your complete and utter refusal to listen to anything I was saying.

You knew damn well what I was talking about when I was trying to get you to admit you were wrong about me being the roleblocker. Yet you were playing coy and clever, probably so you'd look all the more smarter when you thought I would flip mafia.

Maybe if you had spent less time fvcking with me, and more time actually listening to me, it could have turned out differently.

Just about everything you said was FALSE and yet you didn't hesitate from literally saying it was IMPOSSIBLE that I could be town. Then you have the gall to portray yourself as an asset to the town.

And no, with a KNOWN bus driver, I would not have gone after you like you went after me because I actually understand how this game works. Like I told you, I've personally used the bus driver role to kill a mason recruiter before.

Yeah, I understand that the driving scenario was false but it was the only plausible scenario from my POV.

S'MORES AND KUMBAYA
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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4/21/2012 10:35:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Drafter why did you vote for me after being the only player in the game to figure out I was silenced (and thus killed airmax)?
airmax1227
Posts: 13,233
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4/21/2012 10:36:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:30:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:17:48 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
If anyone knows how to upload the mafia PMs that would be great.

I will need the consent of the Mafia members. There was some fighting in the thread, and I don't want to revive unpleasant issues.

I'd prefer you not make them public.
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Viper-King
Posts: 4,822
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4/21/2012 10:37:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:36:11 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:30:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:17:48 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
If anyone knows how to upload the mafia PMs that would be great.

I will need the consent of the Mafia members. There was some fighting in the thread, and I don't want to revive unpleasant issues.

I'd prefer you not make them public.

This. ^
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/21/2012 10:40:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:35:52 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Drafter why did you vote for me after being the only player in the game to figure out I was silenced (and thus killed airmax)?

Because that didn't necessarily make you town and I was never convinced you were town to begin with. :(
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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4/21/2012 10:42:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:32:42 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM, TUF wrote:
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.

TUF, the problem wasn't your FOS. The problem was like I said a million times was your complete and utter refusal to listen to anything I was saying.

You knew damn well what I was talking about when I was trying to get you to admit you were wrong about me being the roleblocker. Yet you were playing coy and clever, probably so you'd look all the more smarter when you thought I would flip mafia.

Maybe if you had spent less time fvcking with me, and more time actually listening to me, it could have turned out differently.

Just about everything you said was FALSE and yet you didn't hesitate from literally saying it was IMPOSSIBLE that I could be town. Then you have the gall to portray yourself as an asset to the town.

And no, with a KNOWN bus driver, I would not have gone after you like you went after me because I actually understand how this game works. Like I told you, I've personally used the bus driver role to kill a mason recruiter before.

Yeah, I understand that the driving scenario was false but it was the only plausible scenario from my POV.

Listen Drafter. Put yourself in my shoes. What if I had been in the exact same situation as you putting forth the exact same defences that you did. Would you believe me? I can almost guarantee you I would have been lynched.

You have to realize that the FOS on you was not innacurate. You were simply a victim of circumstances. Town has lynched people innocent off of a lot less evidence than that, so I honestly don't understand how you can't see where there was so much FOS on you.

Point is whether there was a plausibility of you being town, it doesn't matter.

Look at the Golden gate game for example. I had a guilty on me, so I was lynched without even a valid response. Framer's were Overlooked. Flavors were overlooked. Any other ability altering role was over looked as I was not even granted a chance to speak, so yes, I can relate to you in every bit. The fact of the matter is, as of that time I was the best lynch target to the town, as I had the most evidence against me, and whether there was a probability of me being town or not was not even considered when I was lynched.

So when you had a mountain of results implicated you, how could you possibly be mad that you had been FOS'ed? Quite frankly I find it irritating that you were able to survive a lynch when you had so much against you, and I wasn't when I had so little.

All I am saying is that I thing you are a man who can be practical. Again look at the perspective from my shoes. You would not have let me survive if I had been in your situation.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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4/21/2012 10:43:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:40:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:35:52 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Drafter why did you vote for me after being the only player in the game to figure out I was silenced (and thus killed airmax)?

Because that didn't necessarily make you town and I was never convinced you were town to begin with. :(

Bingo. Now you see how I can be irritated that you are so angry with me for going with results, where as you wanted to lynch BV without him even talking. I hope you understand the point here.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/21/2012 10:47:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think this was a really interesting game. I loved the fact that there were day kills from both the mafia and the town. I'd only recommend that active mods like Royal do this. It wouldn't have worked had anybody else modded since they need to be timed precisely. I also loved some of the unique roles that were in place. I never really got into the duels thing but it seemed interesting. I am sorry I asked to be replaced but it was more of being busy at my end and only being able to post intermittently.

Overall, BlackVoid definitely ruled this game killing most of the mafia. It helped that he had killing powers both times though :)

I am surprised that the mafia were fighting. Never thought a mafia with LDF, HCP, Airmax, and Mestari would do it, but it happens sometimes. Whatever happenned, don't let it escalate into something personal. Trust me, the game is a lot more fun and interesting when you play with people you like.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/21/2012 10:50:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:42:11 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:32:42 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:25:36 PM, TUF wrote:
1. Royal now you know why I consider Blackvoid the best player.

2. There was not a whole lot that was flawed with my logic and reasoning towards drafters and zaradi's FOS's. Had it been you drafter, in my shoes, you would have been FOSing me just as equally, though it probably would have ended in a lynch.

So I am sorry that I FOS'd you, but honestly I was not the only one who saw the suspicion in the results from NP4. As a townie I felt I added a lot to the game. You can be pissed at me but at the end of the day you can't deny that what iwe had on you implicated you heavily. It was not your behavior or anything, it was simply the way results turned out. You seriously cannot blame me for that.

TUF, the problem wasn't your FOS. The problem was like I said a million times was your complete and utter refusal to listen to anything I was saying.

You knew damn well what I was talking about when I was trying to get you to admit you were wrong about me being the roleblocker. Yet you were playing coy and clever, probably so you'd look all the more smarter when you thought I would flip mafia.

Maybe if you had spent less time fvcking with me, and more time actually listening to me, it could have turned out differently.

Just about everything you said was FALSE and yet you didn't hesitate from literally saying it was IMPOSSIBLE that I could be town. Then you have the gall to portray yourself as an asset to the town.

And no, with a KNOWN bus driver, I would not have gone after you like you went after me because I actually understand how this game works. Like I told you, I've personally used the bus driver role to kill a mason recruiter before.

Yeah, I understand that the driving scenario was false but it was the only plausible scenario from my POV.

Listen Drafter. Put yourself in my shoes. What if I had been in the exact same situation as you putting forth the exact same defences that you did. Would you believe me? I can almost guarantee you I would have been lynched.

Oh... so it wasn't an act in the game. You really are incapable of listening to other people. I just told you what I would do in your shoes: I'd understand that, with a known driver around, that I already believed was mafia, I wouldn't have gone after you like that. Read that until it sinks in.


You have to realize that the FOS on you was not innacurate. You were simply a victim of circumstances. Town has lynched people innocent off of a lot less evidence than that, so I honestly don't understand how you can't see where there was so much FOS on you.

Again, read what I said. Read it until it actually sinks in. Start with: TUF, the problem wasn't your FOS.


Point is whether there was a plausibility of you being town, it doesn't matter.

LOL. No, you literally said it was impossible for me to be town.


Look at the Golden gate game for example. I had a guilty on me, so I was lynched without even a valid response. Framer's were Overlooked. Flavors were overlooked. Any other ability altering role was over looked as I was not even granted a chance to speak, so yes, I can relate to you in every bit. The fact of the matter is, as of that time I was the best lynch target to the town, as I had the most evidence against me, and whether there was a probability of me being town or not was not even considered when I was lynched.

No, you can't. 1. The existence of something that flavored your role was speculation. This is in contrast to there being a KNOWN BUS DRIVER.

2. Your weren't lynched solely on the guilty, but on your scummy a$$ role. No one believed you had all them powers and were town.

3. You actually were guilty.


So when you had a mountain of results implicated you, how could you possibly be mad that you had been FOS'ed? Quite frankly I find it irritating that you were able to survive a lynch when you had so much against you, and I wasn't when I had so little.

There weren't a "mountain" of results implicating me. Just 1: The fact that Thadd died when trying to recruit me. That's it. And, again, it wasn't the FOS. It was your dickheadedness in completely ignoring what I was saying and fvcking with me when I was trying to get strait answers out of you. You should know this because THAT'S WHAT I JUST SAID.


All I am saying is that I thing you are a man who can be practical. Again look at the perspective from my shoes. You would not have let me survive if I had been in your situation.
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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4/21/2012 10:50:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyways, I think Royal did a great job of modding this game, and I had fun for the most part.

Yes I was extremely irritated that I put time and effort into case analysis, just to find out that it was all wrong. I felt that no matter how much stuff we had, we were being manipulated at every turn. Royal can you post role? I am curious about how airmax was in the masons. Unless thadd of course was really naive.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/21/2012 10:51:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:43:33 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:40:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/21/2012 10:35:52 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Drafter why did you vote for me after being the only player in the game to figure out I was silenced (and thus killed airmax)?

Because that didn't necessarily make you town and I was never convinced you were town to begin with. :(

Bingo. Now you see how I can be irritated that you are so angry with me for going with results, where as you wanted to lynch BV without him even talking. I hope you understand the point here.

You didn't have any "results." All you had was circumstantial evidence.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/21/2012 10:52:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
TUF, you were scum in Death-in-Mystere. Drafter was town here. Why complain that you were lynched when you are scum? I think that the only legitimate complaints are those from players that were mislynched. You weren't mislynched. You were correctly lynched. If you were mislynched and Drafter escaped as scum, complain all you want and I will agree with you that town made bad decisions but in those two circumstances, that wasn't the case.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/21/2012 10:52:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 10:50:56 PM, TUF wrote:
Anyways, I think Royal did a great job of modding this game, and I had fun for the most part.

Yes I was extremely irritated that I put time and effort into case analysis, just to find out that it was all wrong. I felt that no matter how much stuff we had, we were being manipulated at every turn. Royal can you post role? I am curious about how airmax was in the masons. Unless thadd of course was really naive.

Google docs at top of royals endgame post TUF
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion