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Mafia Modding Fairness

TUF
Posts: 21,309
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4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

If you could answer as much of these questions as possible, it would be muchly appreciated, Thanks!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/22/2012 2:26:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

I always make all kills in my games happen at the same time, so if a Vig dies that NP, his action will still go through for example. And, basically, stuff like recruiting pretty much surpasses all for me as well.


2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

I would say that it kinda takes away the point of killing them that NP if you dont.


MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?


I'm not sure what you mean.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?


I only give out clues as to if they were killed by several people, or if they were killed by friendlies, ect.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?


Transfer, and re-compensate, because your punishing him for you mistake if you do the first.

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?


If a person honestly mad a mistake, I'll give one warning, but if its a Mafia player that is common around here, I will mod-kill.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?


I always replace the person with the first person that died going up.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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TUF
Posts: 21,309
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4/22/2012 2:31:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:26:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?


I'm not sure what you mean.

Like the mods when they throw in prizes to townies when they answer a trivia question about the concept right.

Prizes being roles, or information.

BTW thanks for your feedback thus far.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/22/2012 2:33:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:31:02 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/22/2012 2:26:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?


I'm not sure what you mean.

Like the mods when they throw in prizes to townies when they answer a trivia question about the concept right.

Prizes being roles, or information.

BTW thanks for your feedback thus far.

Never heard of that. I know I kinda was too helpful for people in my Halo game though.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/22/2012 3:51:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

Well, I tend to have a mental heirarchy of actions, regardless of teams. ie, actions that will affect other actions go first, then docs, then kills, etc.

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

I think a little bit. For my next game, I think I'll include trivia, but without rewards--ie, for fun.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

I think it is fair. If that's the style the mod is after, then it's totally fair. I personally try not to do it, but still.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

This only happened to me once, and it was my first game. I basically did a really cheap thing which got them lynched the next day. But I apologized to them, and they understood (right, Logic?)

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

I would say modkill and instant loss is what should be done. That one offense can really tip the balance unfairly.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

I dunno, to be honest. I'd probably ask the noob if they'd be willing to let the exp go, and they can just wait.

If you could answer as much of these questions as possible, it would be muchly appreciated, Thanks!

No problem!
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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4/22/2012 5:04:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

Can't answer perfectly as my game is ongoing.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

Town definitely gets last preference if not simultaneous. If anybody were to get 1st preference it'd be 3rd party to give them a chance. Again that depends on whether it's simultaneous.

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

See above. Also, 'go through' has fatal results with a role like a police chief (hypothetically speaking for insurance here) .

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

Look, this depends on the design of the game and which alignment the info applies to. I use an array of balancing tricks to finely balance my games. Trivia could apply, but I generally dislike it.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

Yes, so long as they are extremely well disguised or seemingly non-existent. Also, I tend to like making 3rd parties look like just people in OPs and end scenes. Got the give them a chance. Again, another refining of balance.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

Replace the player. Don't do things like modkills or transfers ... that kills balance.
MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

I'm okay with non-critical discussions in other forums (I don't like it, but no mod kill) . Also, it depends on the nature of their offence. My roles are often written in a certain style, so I would strongly advocate no copy and pasting. Furthermore, at times the gains from a confirmed townie reveal outweigh a modkill. Marauder tried this in Assassins' Creed Mafia and it nearly worked.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

Player who were originally in the game always get preference where possible (and given interest) . They are more knowledgeable about the game and engaged.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/22/2012 6:54:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

No, night actions should occur "simultaneously" because it simplifies things and doesn't screw people over. If you're going to do it any other way, such as the way you suggested, the setup should be made in a way so that it doesn't screw up actions.

The absolute worst way would be to have actions happen in the order that they're submitted.

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

I don't know what you're getting at here. If the player dies then they can't tell other players information regardless of whether or not you gave it to them. Although you should give information to players that act on people that happen to die if their role is applicable.

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

What is this? I've never heard of it or seen it done. It sounds like a bad idea, though.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

Depends on how far it goes and how much information is available to all the players. I've never seen minor storytelling in the OP of a phase thread to heavily influence the game.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

Depends on the specific situation. I'd probably just bar that player from mentioning the information I accidentally gave them to their teammates and make it clear that trying to get around the restriction will result in harsh punishment. Playing with meta-knowledge without utilizing that kowledge may be difficult, but not impossible. It may not be fair, but it's better than ruining the game for all the players.

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

The major rules are there for reasons, although I wouldn't make talking about the game outside of the game itself one of the de facto major rules. That seems like one that can be applied on the basis of the scale of the offense.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

Depends on your mod policy. A lot of games explicitly say that replacements will be sought from in-game dead players before outside replacements. As long as there's clarification on the policy it's fine. Mods shouldn't just give replacement spots to experienced players to make their games better. Without more people becoming experienced games stagnate.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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4/22/2012 7:21:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks for the feedback everyone I will apply it to my modding style!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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4/22/2012 7:24:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

I don't give preferences to one team or another. I go by roles. I look at who is protected, who is blocked or stolen, etc., and go from there. I don't really understand the need to give preference to one team's actions over the other, unless that particular role trumps.

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

I don't think so. We don't let them use their roles when they're dead so the night that they die counts as them being dead, in my opinion. The only exception I can think of is a vig who targets the same player who is trying to kill them. In that case, they kill each other. That seems the fair thing to do so that the mod doesn't have to choose. You could always go by the time stamp, but that always favors whoever happens to be online when the dayphase ends, and that doesn't seem very fair to me.

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

I used trivia in my first mob wars games and didn't really like it. Again, it favors whoever happens to be online at the time, and can google the fastest. People who have jobs that don't allow them to monitor the game, or go to school when the questions are posted, are just out of luck and it didn't seem fair to a good percentage of players.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

I think it can be done fairly, but someone can always argue that it isn't. I think it's best when the clues are given in a way that requires the town to figure out the clue, they shouldn't be too obvious. Nor should they give away too much info.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

I would ask that player not to reveal the info with the understanding that if he does reveal it he will be mod-killed.

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

First offense. Even beginning players have access to the rules and not c/p'ing role pm's is one of the few rules that are crucial to the spirit of the game. To me this rule is non-negotiable.

As for talking in other threads about the game, it depends on what was said. The degree of damage it does decides whether it gets punished or not.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

If neither of those players had been in the game previously, I'd go by who's up next on the list regardless of experience. However, if there was someone who got killed and wants to come back in then that person is going to get back in first because they're already familiar with the game and what's going on. If both players had been in the game previously, I'd go with whoever is the most active.

If you could answer as much of these questions as possible, it would be muchly appreciated, Thanks!
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/22/2012 10:32:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)

I try to have town as the last preference because it is the easiest affiliation to play.

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?

No. If a vig dies for instance, I don't allow their night action to go through. Letting it go through beats the point of killing them.

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?

Yes. Exactly what Medic said.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?

Not really. I try to scratch the OPs altogether or minimize their length.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?

I transfered you once but I don't know if I would do it on a general basis.

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?

First offence. Mod-killing is not the end of the world. I remember HCP's first game was FF7 mafia where he copy-pasted his role PM and LDF mod-killed him and put him back in as a replacement.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?

Tbh, I just put in more experienced/active players in first.

If you could answer as much of these questions as possible, it would be muchly appreciated, Thanks!
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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4/22/2012 10:58:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/22/2012 2:13:53 PM, TUF wrote:
Just wanted to get the opinions of some of you, and ask you some questions.

NIGHT ACTIONS

1) Do you think there should be preference between which teams night actions go above others? (Ex: 1st mafia, 2nd 3rd party, 3rd town.)


1. Role Manipulations.
2. Protections.
3. Kills
4. Investigations

2) Would it be more fair to allow all night actions to go through no matter what the team, even if that player dies? If no then why?


If they die before their role is processed, it never goes through.

MOD CHANGES

3) Do you think trivia in games is unfair when it gives players extra information/roles?


I think this aids the town as they have more players.

4) Do you believe that the generally accepted "Mod gives town clues in the OP" Concept is fair?


Sure, depending on the strength of the clues.

5) If a mod makes a mistake, and answers in a wrong pm, which lets a non Anti-town affiliated player information which is detrimental to the other side, is it more fair to eliminate that player completely, or transfer him to that party, and try to re compinsate the town?


Killing the player is unfair. Make them third party. Oh wait... (Reference to every game I've been in... EVER)

MOD BEHAVIOR

6) Is it fair for a mod to modkill some one on their first offence for violating a major rule like Copying and pasting the role pm, or talking about a game in a different forum, or is it better to take away their role, and mod kill them on their second offence?


C&P? Sure. Talking about it elsewhere? Depends on what they are saying.

7) If a mod needs a replacement, and there is an un experienced player, who is not all that great at mafia that has been waiting in the replacement line longer, is it better to give the replacement to that person, or an experienced player that is sure to add better discussion to the game, who has just died and wishes to be replaced?


I would give it to the inexperienced player. If the experienced player has reason to add more to the discussion, it is probably because of what he knows from his past life.

If you could answer as much of these questions as possible, it would be muchly appreciated, Thanks!
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.