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Golden Garden Mafia DP 7

Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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5/9/2012 2:53:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
In the long silence of the night a respectable figure sat in his chair, reading another great novel - The Day of the Jackal. However, he was not in the mood for reading, and after he closed his book even a touch of Albert Hammond's music was not sufficient to keep him sedate. Putting on a cream suit and a stylish tie, the Professor walked outside. He had some matters to attend to.

Walking during the night, the Professor was at pains to see precisely what was required of him. But did it really matter? He was a lonely man now, a fellow who really had few allegiances, except to Him.

It was then, in the quiet of his thoughts, that the soft footstep on the cobbled pavement and it's distinct tone caught his ear. He turned around, and saw a new man this time. The figure hastily moved his hand and the Professor stepped back a pace.

'Come now friend, I am not your target. I could help you if it wasn't against my code of chivalry."
"Professor, one does not simply let a man like you live. Indeed, death was not enough for you for the cursed Archbishop somehow brought you to life."

The professor's eyes narrowed ever so slightly as he braced himself to speak in a cold undertone.

"Retract your words you wretched heathen!" The figure laughed.
"I think not."

And then, for the second time, Professor Enterius Chelmey died.

Meanwhile...

It appears that Colonel Mathieu was truly innocent. It seems there was much ado about nothing.

As the sun rises...

The few people remaining in Folsense wake up to a brand new day, alert - wits sharpened to their max and... blades grasped in anticipation of their use. As the citizens begin to feel that perhaps the final hour might soon be at hand, they scramble into the town square for another day of deliberations.

However, they realise that at the throes of death people do things that might otherwise not occur. Could this be the case, or is this all wishful thinking?

Let us see a show, and see what happens!

TV - Colonel Mathieu – A French veteran from Algiers, you still despise Algerians to this very day. Your strength and cunning from days past means that you are a strong military man, a bulletproof solider. You win with the town.

Danielle / F-16 - Professor Enterius Chelmey - One of Clark's long time friends, Clark contacted you recently to investigate what he described as 'ominous happenings' . As a scholarly gentleman you accepted with grace. Because of your blazing intellect, puzzle solving abilities and investigative zeal, you are the investigative JOAT - you can watch, track or cop a player each night. Your powers of deduction also enable you to see through any tricks (ie. lawyer or godfather powers, millers etc.) that are intended to hide the truth. Furthermore, your powers of deduction enable you to discover secrets. On some NPs you will discover crucial pieces of information. You win with the town. [died as a member of the Church this time...]

Living Players

1. Lickdafoot
2. Royalpaladin
3. Bluesteel
4. M. Torres
5. Medic
6. Xerge

It takes 4 votes to lynch.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Xerge
Posts: 1,906
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5/9/2012 3:18:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well....I watched Danielle last night....and it appears Mtorres was the one who visited her. I do not know of another possibility, but as of now I will...

VTL MTorres
Logic_on_rails
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5/9/2012 5:07:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:41:22 AM, Xerge wrote:
Unfortunately...it also appears royal closed her account.....

That is rather problematic at this late phase...

I'll give the matter 24 hours and see if Royal has a change of heart. Otherwise, we'll have to see. Many players upon death have been so intrigued as to wish for answers to some matters. It might be somewhat difficult to find a replacement, although I'm sure somebody will be found.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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5/9/2012 5:38:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, Royal has 24 hours to post or TV will take over her role. I have lowered the deadline because her account is closed, which demands stronger action than usual.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/9/2012 7:43:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Royal WTF???

Anyway, I got an innocent on LDF. I'm not sure if Xerge is telling the truth, or if we're at MYLO and he's risking it all to try and get that last mislynch.

It seems both an odd choice by the watcher, to watch Danielle, and an odd choice by mafia to kill her, instead of going after a townie. The whole of the night actions seems orchestrated so as to frame Torres for the win. If that's the case then I highly suspect that Xerge and Blue are the remaining mafia.
Xerge
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5/9/2012 7:48:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:43:07 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Royal WTF???

Anyway, I got an innocent on LDF. I'm not sure if Xerge is telling the truth, or if we're at MYLO and he's risking it all to try and get that last mislynch.

It seems both an odd choice by the watcher, to watch Danielle, and an odd choice by mafia to kill her, instead of going after a townie. The whole of the night actions seems orchestrated so as to frame Torres for the win. If that's the case then I highly suspect that Xerge and Blue are the remaining mafia.

bluesteel suggested what I would do and what he were going to do medic in DP6 which was to watch Danielle and he would protect you....why did you not raise an objection then?
medic0506
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5/9/2012 8:16:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:48:34 AM, Xerge wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:43:07 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Royal WTF???

Anyway, I got an innocent on LDF. I'm not sure if Xerge is telling the truth, or if we're at MYLO and he's risking it all to try and get that last mislynch.

It seems both an odd choice by the watcher, to watch Danielle, and an odd choice by mafia to kill her, instead of going after a townie. The whole of the night actions seems orchestrated so as to frame Torres for the win. If that's the case then I highly suspect that Xerge and Blue are the remaining mafia.

bluesteel suggested what I would do and what he were going to do medic in DP6 which was to watch Danielle and he would protect you....why did you not raise an objection then?

Yes I saw that, and I was going to check LDF anyway, so it had no bearing on what I did. I was hoping though that you would follow your own direction since you were apparently duped earlier in the mason pm. I didn't want to call attention to that post because if we had a discussion about it then you'd likely follow his direction, since he's a more experienced and knowledgable player than me.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to do here. My instincts haven't been very good in this game. I have to admit that despite my arguments in her favor, over the last couple day phases I've been wondering if Royal could be mafia. I rarely live this long in games, and I have no explanation for why the sane cop has been allowed to live this long unless it's because his suspicions are so off that he's actually helping the mafia. She hasn't been doing much in the way of scumhunting lately, and that's not like her this late in the game. When she's town she's normally a voracious poster.

So, I guess that mafia is likely Blue and Xerge, or Torres and Royal. I'm going to wait for everyone else to weigh in before deciding on a vote.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 8:34:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:43:07 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Royal WTF???

Anyway, I got an innocent on LDF. I'm not sure if Xerge is telling the truth, or if we're at MYLO and he's risking it all to try and get that last mislynch.

It seems both an odd choice by the watcher, to watch Danielle, and an odd choice by mafia to kill her, instead of going after a townie. The whole of the night actions seems orchestrated so as to frame Torres for the win. If that's the case then I highly suspect that Xerge and Blue are the remaining mafia.

Lol. This is ultra-fail logic. You and royal seemed to agree with it last DP. Royal even went so far as to say something like: "if we can investigate everyone and win if tv is lynched, just VTL him." It made me think you and her were buddying for tv's lynch, but then again, he looked pretty guilty last phase, so I couldn't tell.

Anyways, I'll re-explain the logic of it.

Last phase, the most likely mafia were LDF, Torres, and tv (to me). At the very least, LDF and Torres were big unknowns. I had you, medic, investigate LDF, the one I was slightly less suspicious of, and danielle investigate Torres because her investigates can't be fooled with. I then said I'd protect you, and xerge would protect danielle. This further made sense because if danielle died, xerge would have caught a mafioso and they would have eliminated a third party for us.

I was surprised though. I truly thought they'd pick off xerge, given the above options. However, given that we trust danielle's results, she's probably a bigger threat to them. Torres believed she would investigate him. Presumably she would have gotten a guilty on him, which would immediately end the game for him. At least this way, he'll probably get on and say he tried to recruit her and there's a ninja or xerge is mafia. However, it would be STUPID for someone who didn't recruit on NP5 to do so on NP6 is such a scummy way - recruiting the 3rd party player, instead of a townie, and recruiting the watcher target. So imo, the only real options are that xerge is mafia or Torres is. I've already basically stated that if xerge bussed mestari, I think we lose this game, since there are other far more suspicious people than xerge that we are going to have to lynch first (although you can investigate xerge this NP medic, since he's the only person you haven't, besides royal). Although maybe it would be better to investigate royal. Even if we lynch mafia, we'll be at MYLO again next DP.

Anyways, this is exactly like The Wire Mafia, imo, where we have an obvious mafioso and we just have to go with results. If we second guess the obvious choice, we lose.

So to repeat, Torres is mafia, duh:

1) He admits his role PM talks about the Garden => mafia
2) He character claimed mayor, which is dumb, since Monde's role PM implicates bribe-able figures, but he likely didn't realize this (I think he claimed to drafter on NP1)
3) LoR admitted in The Wire Endgame to using confusing roles. Mafia Mason seems like an obvious choice in this situation. It explains why he recruited LDF so dangerously on NP2.
4) Danielle was going to investigate him so he killed her.

He was in a double bind really - have danielle come out with a guilty on him this DP or let xerge see him kill her and then try to argue his way out of it. I wish there was only one mafia left, but given there's two, I'd say anyone besides Torres that refuses to VTL him is scum too, since I think this is super obvious. Medic, if you're town, you're about to WIFOM yourself into another loss if you won't vote Torres. I'll argue about me vs. LDF or someone else as the lynch target next DP. But for now, we need to lynch Torres.

VTL Torres

If and when Torres flips mafia, we also know that mafia don't have a ninja or they would have used it. Again, Torres as mafia is more plausible than alternatives, like mafia has a ninja AND a redirector and forced Torres onto danielle. Or something like that.

Use Occum's Razor - the simplest explanation is almost always the best one. I've found it to be true in mafia.

This NP, I'd suggest not using a plan. It's too easy for mafia to circumvent this time. I typed a few scenarios out, but I don't like any of them since they broadcast to the mafia exactly who they should kill. And if they don't have a ninja, I don't see why we should tell them who xerge will be on.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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5/9/2012 8:39:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
@medic

I agree. Given my experiences with royal in Harry Potter and The Wire, she posts a lot of theories when she's town. HP proves she does so even when other experienced players, like me, are playing. Misfits showed the opposite - she slunk below the radar until it was MYLO, then suddenly jumped all over me (she was mafia).

And I'm still remembering that I said I'd eat my hat if her and drafter weren't mafia (I should have said non-town). I can't remember why I said that, but I'm sure if I re-read that DP (I think DP4), I'd see her scummy behavior that made me think that. The same happened with drafterman, where the DP was so long that I forgot the scummy things he did that led me to that conclusion.

Anyways, I think you're being quite reasonable and when you've been wrong in your analysis, you've generally changed your mind and expressed your lack of certainty, which makes me think you're town every time I suspect you.

If it's between Torres and royal or me and xerge in your mind, I hope you make the obvious decision.

If it helps, the idea to "plan night actions" came from a suggestion danielle made last phase. At least, that's what gave me the idea. I normally don't plan night actions, but when I checked some scenarios to see why danielle might have said that, I realized that with two investigators, it was actually necessary to make sure you didn't check the same person and that xerge and I didn't protect the same person.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/9/2012 9:13:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok this explanation makes good sense, plus I totally forgot that Danielle couldn't be fooled. Killing her does make sense now, to me, and so does your explanation for directing those actions. Given that, and the fact that I always advocate for trusting results until they're proven not to be accurate...

VTL Torres

If we lose this game I'm going to be p!ssed.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 9:24:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 9:09:33 AM, Danielle wrote:
Dear god. I hope TV goes back into this game. At least I lose with the cult lol :)

lol, gee thanks danielle. You think we're wrong? I wish I knew why.

Presumably you weren't told results on Torres because you died, but he seems an obvious objective choice.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Danielle
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5/9/2012 9:28:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I didn't get results from last night cuz I died, so I'm not commenting on Torres. I'm speaking generally. Carry on.
President of DDO
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 9:37:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
btw townies, assuming we survive to next DP, DON'T hammer anyone too quickly next phase, even if someone claims to have gotten results on someone. We'll still be at MYLO.

Although I'm really hoping xerge and medic are town and presumably someone wouldn't trust royal/tv's results by themselves anyway. But just thought I'd say it. MYLO = be careful.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 9:39:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, I just remember this:

Posted by:
Logic_on_rails

Very slow night actions from a certain group. So much so that it was only because I was at school that they had an extension.

from the announcement PM^^

I think logic made a huge mistake implying that the mafia were the ones holding things up. I'm sure it was because he was getting ticked off at them. I know in most of my games, mafia are the last ones to submit night actions. I think it would be especially true in this game if the last mafiosos were Torres and LDF. Both are super-inactive, based on The Wire game.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 2:03:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Possibly of note: why has LDF been immune from replacement?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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5/9/2012 2:07:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You can replace Royal now. She's not coming back. I have spoken with her before and after she left the site. Nothing has changed.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 2:14:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 2:09:47 PM, drafterman wrote:
I'll be a replacement if TV is unavailable.

Didn't TV publicly announce his retirement from mafia?

Wasn't that during this game.

I iz confused.

You should probably use drafterman, unless you've spoken privately to TV about this.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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5/9/2012 4:16:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 2:07:38 PM, Mestari wrote:
You can replace Royal now. She's not coming back. I have spoken with her before and after she left the site. Nothing has changed.

Based on Mestari's good word I'll replace Royal.

TV has replaced Royal.

As for why I chose TV, he wanted to rejoin this game and solve the mysteries of this game and have some fun. Let's give a fitting finale for his career.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/9/2012 8:02:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:42:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Well there wasn't a quick hammer so is that a good sign, or a bad sign??

It's a sign that of the 3 remaining players, only Torres has been online yet.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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5/9/2012 9:01:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm here.

Vote M.Torres
Always go with results.

I may have prematurely announced my retirement... I've commuted myself to at least two other games.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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5/9/2012 9:31:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
M.Torres was guilty.

While we wait for logic to log on, go ahead and send night actions. There arent many people left, so if you get it done fast enough Logic might be able to start the next DP tonight.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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5/10/2012 1:39:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Off the electoral roll...

Torres - 4/4 - Xerge, Blue, Medic, TV

Mayor Alfred Fischer's face glistened under the tension in the air, all directed at him.

"I'm the mayor! Do you really suspect me?" Impassive faces glared back at him.
"I believe it is perfectly obvious who the traitor in your network was... you. Let's not go over the whole list of accusations again Mayor..."

Mayor Alfred Fischer knew his game was up. It was time to join Monde in a police cell. He could just imagine Monde calling him by his name, then remarking about how the villagers clearly couldn't tell a man by his name. Maybe he'd call him be a set of initials...

M.A.F

------------------------------------

Night actions in. 48 hours to get them in.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it