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Golden Garden Mafia Endgame

Logic_on_rails
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5/14/2012 3:00:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Our victors...

1st place - Town
2nd place - Mafia
3rd place - The Church (Oh, but they were actually very close to winning)
4th place - Drafterman

Roles

Third Party (1)

F-16 - Archbishop Gamelon - You are the leader of His church. In secular times this means little though. It is your job to expand His church. To do this you are a multi-shot reviver that brings people back to life, except when revived they are aligned with you - the Church. Twice during the game you may revive a player, but with 1 caveat - 1 revival must be a DP lynch (or arrest) and 1 revival must be from a death at night. Also, once you've revived 2 players you'll get a 1 shot vigilante power to give out what you believe to be divine justice.

Furthermore, if your church reaches it's 'full stature' you will get another person on your side. Other abilities of yours are that you are a 1 shot lawyer in addition to being safe in your church. Being safe in your church means you are bulletproof whenever you are in your church. You are in your church whenever you choose not to revive somebody.

Your followers will win with 'The Following'. You win when The Following are a majority or if you personally live to the final 3 players.

Mod note: You are a star role. Yes, you aren't quite as fantastic as an inquisitor, yet reviving known townies is sure to help. Also, OPs and end DP scenes will show you in a favourable light.

Mafia (3)

Royal / TV - Police Chief Walter Barnaby - You are the head of the police force in Folsense and have an impeccable record, although this is mainly due to your forging of evidence, framing and so forth. Nevertheless, you are a sharp fellow. As police chief you can frame / lawyer a person of your choosing every night, cop the person you frame or lawyer and every night you will also receive every investigative result from your men in the police department. Furthermore, you are well known and trusted, and so appear innocent to investigation by anybody from your department or from Folsense as a whole. You win with the Mafia.

Torres - Mayor Alfred Fischer - You are the town Mayor and because of this and your great rapport with the townspeople you are the mason. However, because you chose to accept some generous payments from Frances Monde, you are the Mafia mason. You can recruit anybody into your mason PM. You recruit 1 person into your mason PM each night. You win with the Mafia.

Mestari - Frances Monde - You are a rich and influential man whose wish is to finally uncover The Golden Garden. To this end, you have bought out various figures in Folsense. You however aren't really a man for fieldwork. Nevertheless, your considerable funds allow you to engineer an unstoppable kill and a 1 shot roleblock. You win with the Mafia.

Mod note: You can see that you're going to be hard to find and that you have a very strong Mafia team. Nevertheless, this game will not be won through brute force [no emphasis in PM itself] - you have a very strong team, yet are few in number.

Town (11)

Danielle - Professor Enterius Chelmey - One of Clark's long time friends, Clark contacted you recently to investigate what he described as 'ominous happenings' . As a scholarly gentleman you accepted with grace. Because of your blazing intellect, puzzle solving abilities and investigative zeal, you are the investigative JOAT - you can watch, track or cop a player each night. Your powers of deduction also enable you to see through any tricks (ie. lawyer or godfather powers, millers etc.) that are intended to hide the truth. Furthermore, your powers of deduction enable you to discover secrets. On some NPs you will discover crucial pieces of information. You win with the town.

Xerge - Bishop Smith – As a venerable Bishop, a servant of the Lord, you watch over his flock of children, hoping to keep them safe, therefore you are the watcher; watch a person every night. Your longstanding links with Folsense drive you to keep the villagers safe. You win with the town.

Modnote: Gamelon's 'full stature recruit' . Also, at one point a 'cop' in game design.

Medic - Detective Capote – You are the cop. Peer closely each night and determine a person's guilt (or lack of guilt) . You win with the town.

Bluesteel - Chevalier de Roland - You are, quite simply, a man of valor and honour. You fought to the last against the wretched demons who ransacked your country estate in France. You nearly fought them off, yet got knocked over the head. You woke up, decided it was time to get out of France and now humbly work as a bodyguard in England. Every night protect 1 player. If they are targeted there's a 50% chance you chase off the attacker and nobody dies and a 50% chance you take the blow and die. You win with the town.

TUF - Anton Herzen – You are the owner of Herzen Castle, a place terribly feared by your fellow villagers, and yet one that they are intrigued by. You have decided to come out of your isolation to see The Golden Garden unearthed. To this end, you want to both rid the town of scum and contact good people in the town. You are the messenger / vigilante. Every day you can send 1 message via PM to anybody you like (you can do this yourself, just make sure to include myself and Blackvoid in the message and mention they only get a single reply). They can send 1 message back. You will then invite them to Herzen Castle (everybody accepts out of curiosity).

At the start of the NP you then have 2 choices:

1. Talk to them throughout the NP.
2. Kill them. However, as an honourable man you will let them draw a sword, making things fair. Because of this you have a 50% chance of killing them, and a 50% chance of your foe escaping.

You then start the same cycle the next DP (the old messenger PM is closed) . You also have another quest – searching for a lover that left you what feels like so very long ago. If you message her you'll gain a lovers PM and a certain revelation will occur to you. Obviously though, your lover is town, so going after townies for messages prevents you from killing anybody. Keep this in mind.

You win with the town.

Modnote (s) : Death miller. Miller to those who haven't visited Herzen Castle. Actually 50% chance of getting himself killed, 25% chance of killing target, 25% chance of duel ending before a life is taken. [Yeah...'mislynch target' gone too far]

LDF - Moni Windsor – You are a lovely lady, seen in the highest regard by many in Folsense. To this extent, you are a popular townie and it takes 1 extra vote to arrest you. You win with the town.

Modnote: Anton's lover.

Drafterman - Lemar Dupont - You are a terribly remorseful cop. When you murdered a fellow police officer after he discovered a certain secret ... well, it's something you sincerely regret. However, your honour, along with your family's honour, prevents you from admitting to what you did. Instead, you work to keep your secret safe. You can do this in 2 ways in this game -

1. You kill a cop (it must be a member of the force), burn the records of all evidence relating to the murder and then can rest easy. You become an every night tracker and win with the town.

Note: If you target a person who isn't a cop you will be locked up and don't become part of the town.

2. You attempt to survive all game. You win if you survive. Your only extra ability is to plant a false investigation result every NP.

One final thing - if investigated by a cop you will appear guilty. Basically, unless you kill a cop and 'clear' your name you are a 3rd party survivor who can plant false investigative results every night.

Modnote: That's right - counted as 'town' in the game design stage.

Continued..
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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5/14/2012 3:18:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
HA Told you I was death miller. Mestari, royal drafter, or else here was 100% sure that I wasn't again?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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5/14/2012 3:22:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyways, logic this game had some cool role ideas, and mechanics. Wish I could have player more!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/14/2012 3:34:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fun game, at least from the town side.

In retrospect, this was a dead giveaway: "To this end, you have bought out various figures in Folsense."
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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5/14/2012 3:35:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What would have happened if drafter killed royal? That's how I would have used his role.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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5/14/2012 3:49:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm trying to post the mafia PM but the file's too large on firefox and it wont show correctly on chrome. I'll try it again in the morning.

Honestly the thing I'm most disappointed is that Xerge said he was nameless. He was actually named Bishop Smith. I basically suggested that name for the lolz. There would be Monde, Gamelon, Herzen, and...Smith. I thought it would make a funny discussion.

Anyway I'll have thoughts later.
tvellalott
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5/14/2012 3:52:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Exhausted from DDO election stuff. I'll post a TL;DR tomorrow.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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5/14/2012 5:29:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marauder - Officer Claire Monfil –You are a kind, caring, empathetic lady, a psychologist. Pick a person each night and if they are the serial killer you will convert them to a town vigilante and told of your success in doing so. You win with the town.

Modnote: No serial killer (I was strict on 'serial killer') . Whom Marauder guessed though ... he was very sharp.

PartamRuhem - Officer Locke –You are the cop. Investigate 1 person each night. You win with the town.

Modnote: Naive cop.

Tulle - Donna Altava -- An energetic, sprightly young woman, you are eager to please and ready to tackle any mystery that comes your way. To this end you are the apprentice. You can pick one person in the game to learn from and when they die you will be given a modified version of their role. You win with the town.

TV - Colonel Mathieu – A French veteran from Algiers, you still despise Algerians to this very day. Your strength and cunning from days past means that you are a strong military man, a bulletproof solider. You win with the town.

One more thing on Gamelon:

Modnote: Protected from unstoppable kill, but will lose his church if he is in the church when attacked. Did this to give the main 3rd party a chance after the inquisitor's death last game early on.

As you can all see these roles were quite wordy and such...

Game thoughts, reflections and comments

Game Balance / Design thoughts

This was one heck of a tough game to balance and create - it didn't fall nicely into place like Death in Mystere. There was a slight pro-town tilt at the start I believe unfortunately, although mad (but amusing) decisions like Drafterman staying 3rd party made things interesting.

That said, the Mafia never understood things properly, and I blame myself partially for making this game perhaps a tad too complex.

See, the Mafia claim I used mod WIFOM. It's a long story, but I always told them not to read into what I said (they did however...) . On mod WIFOM directing them to kill F-16 ... not true. They said the game was unbalanced by having a town reviver. I told them the game was perfectly balanced (3rd party reviver...) , and told them to not read into that. They read into that and thought that I'd basically said 'hey, the game is balanced but there's a town reviver' .

I had an absolute web of things set up in this game. M.A.F for a Mafia member's initials, character names with subtle references (some like Barnaby were meant to deceive into looking town ... Midsummer Murders anyone?) , hints in the DP 1 OP, anomalies and so forth.

There's so much I'd love to say about this game, but space doth constrain me. Please, PM me if you want to know anything further about this game.

Modding

I was helped in this regard and on many decisions by Blackvoid, who I do thank sincerely for his substantial help during and prior to this game.

In this game I didn't muck up any night actions or such, so I'm happy on that front. I did have the F-16 / Danielle problem for reasons I've discussed already, but I think I resolved that as best I could. I allayed Drafterman's concerns about things and we reached an understanding. Etc.

I do think that perhaps I'll be stricter with DP time limits and NP limits next time though... it's been about a month since this game begun! Problem was that my timing was out of synch, so sometimes I'd receive night actions and then have to wait about 18 hours before I had time to do anything! That really slowed things down...

On quarrels with the Mafia and resolving that, I believe I did a good job with that actually, although the Mafia will beg to disagree. The Mafia however were the cause of many of their difficulties though. Let's leave it at that for now. I did make the mistake of saying 'condone' as opposed to 'condemned' , falsely equivocating what I thought to be similar meanings...

The game itself

Well, DP 1 was a boring affair this game. Nobody seemed to realise that characters had meaning or that the OP had many clues (6 to be exact... PM me to see those clues - space reasons) .

NP 1 was very amusing. Mestari said this "So we killed the cop that investigated our framing target. Wonderful."

However, it was better than that. You see, Royal decided to investigate F-16, yet F-16 lawyered himself! Modnote: 3rd party actions had precedence over all other actions (that's why Danielle came back to life) . However, if Partam had investigated F-16 he would have found a framed target!

Basically, naive cop investigates a 3rd party who is lawyered then framed while the naive cop who is then killed is checked by the piercing cop...

DP 2 and we have TUF fall because our sane cop conveniently investigated the miller straight up. Interestingly, TUF was going to next message LDF, which would have meant they had a permanent PM in which I mod-confirmed both of them to each other. However, he never lived to the NP...

Now, TUF got a bit angry and really shouldn't have stated he was a death miller at any point, nor given away F-16's role. Basically, the Mafia had 2 plans - kill Xerge and kill F-16. Big argument about who to kill and (as happened for so many Mafia night actions...) it took ages to resolve. Had they killed Xerge this game would have been so different and Mafia may well have won. As is... they got themselves into a hole. Oh, Medic investigates the claimed miller as well... Drafterman again screws with the Mafia (and the town!) , Blue protects no one for no good reason and Danielle doesn't use a piercing cop ability (why not use a piercing cop ability!? F-16 also made this mistake later) .

DP 3 there's some really good arguing and such, along with the Mafia screaming at me in their PM. Danielle smashes Royal and shows why she is a brilliant player. Mestari is convicted on results and scummy play all game (yeah, Royal and Mestari both played pretty badly DP 1 and 2... WAY too much inside knowledge) yet puts up strong resistance and comes up with an interesting game to no avail. He's lynched... Brilliant DP and a tour de force by the town.

NP 3 is rather bland comparison to the madness of the first 2 NPs. Mafia cleanly killed the extremely powerful investigative JOAT. I'm sure if Danielle had lived Royal was going to die (and be piercing investigated) .

DP 4 and we have another strong DP of discussion with the Mafia starting to play okay. Marauder, a mislynch target, gets lynched. Confusion still abounds though.

NP 4 is another case of Mafia saying 'do we kill Xerge of F-16?' Had they gone for Xerge Blue would have died (Blackvoid picking heads on my coin flip failed...) and F-16 would have been REALLY close to victory. 1 more NP and he'd gain 2 more players (ie. 4 players out of about 8) plus have a kill. Yeah, F-16 was actually really close to winning this game. As for the whole 'mason mole' , no, that was a mere coincidence. Mafia basically said 'if he survives this game is so unbalanced it's crazy, so we're just going to go take a chance and kill him' . Their daring attack worked.

DP 5 is a terribly lengthy and vicious DP of good analysis and such. Drafterman fights tooth and nail yet is killed, and he was going to kill Royal in the night. Question is yet again why Royal isn't being killed despite everybody thinking she's Mafia.

NP 5... mod intervention. What, cursed words? No. Mafia were going to suicide (have Torres kill Royal and give up basically) . I gently told them that they weren't fatally dead and rather told them that they had a chance. They then killed Tulle. Understand that I did this because I said 'condone' vs. 'condemn' which made them want to kill themselves, and, the game ended up being close - good reason to prevent a suicide. Meanwhile, everybody rallies around Bluesteel.

Continued...
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Logic_on_rails
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5/14/2012 5:49:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
DP 6, like many other DPs, is a great DP with good arguments and such by good players (F-16 was very active as a 3rd party, and I give him credit for his attentive playing considering his position), although some were off the mark. Eventually though TV claims serial killer ... 'what!?' says the mod. Gets him lynched. Again though, Royal isn't killed and appears innocent due to Drafter's death, although now Torres, formerly seemingly confirmed, is suspected!

NP 6 and Danielle is killed again. Xerge however again is on the ball and I must say he made a truly brilliant move. Xerge played brilliantly this game (as did many others!) . Torres is seen (only time he performed the kill and he's caught) .

DP 7 is simple enough, Torres is lynched. A bit annoyed that nobody picked up on M.A.F all game as Blackvoid specifically wanted me to include that (I had 'Mayor Clyde Mansky' before) ... TV replaces Royal and plays well, yet is in a quagmire due to Royal's earlier suspect play.

NP 7 and TV attacks Xerge (about time - Xerge can't watch himself! Plus, Mafia had no idea Blue was half doctor) ! I get to write an exciting story as well (on par with my DP 1 OP) ! As for Blue's death, I said I'd use a random number generator 3 times. Majority odds and he dies and the reverse as well. 1st number - even, 2nd and 3rd - odd. He's dead. Due to game mechanics Xerge doesn't see the incident...

And then even at the end we have a difficult decision - Medic or TV? TV played well as Royal, but the damage was done earlier. Medic's bad play (no offence, but not as strong as some others) during the game makes things a tad complex, plus his ardent defence of Royal earlier, but he makes the right decision in the end.

I'd like to state that Danielle played strong on DP 3, Xerge was a town hero, Bluesteel played well, F-16 played very well in both roles (and was kind to be active in his second role) , Drafterman was an entertaining 3rd party, Marauder used his role well and I'd like to thank everybody for being active and making this a high quality game. Despite the town falling for some traps, they successfully negotiated a diabolical minefield. A great show by the creme de la creme.

A mention also goes to Torres for some sound play as mason and TV for his last ditch effort as police chief. Mestari and Royal however don't get accolades because of some poor play. Fritz Garnier was a nice name though.

Again, a great showing by the creme de la creme.

Feedback

Please, I am open to any and all feedback. Any comments, anything. A few matters of particular interest;

1. Did you like the OPs and end scenes?
2. Was the modding and game well designed? Any problems?
3. Were the NPs too long in this game?*
4. Was the game enjoyable

*I have a very interesting game concept that relies on a 2 stage NP, which means NPs could take up to 72 hours...

And again, any feedback is welcome. Please, I really do want feedback and to discuss this game.

As you might have guessed, I can't say everything in the endgame thread - there's too much to say. I must thank my co-mod and the players for making this a great game. It's an honour to have the best players grace a game.

And the curtains close on the show as Folsense falls into a long night...
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/14/2012 6:53:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:18:19 AM, TUF wrote:
HA Told you I was death miller. Mestari, royal drafter, or else here was 100% sure that I wasn't again?

You weren't supposed to tell us, dipsh1t.
drafterman
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5/14/2012 6:55:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:35:06 AM, bluesteel wrote:
What would have happened if drafter killed royal?

Exactly what I said would have happened: I would have become a tracker. I know the town somehow got it into its head that I was lying about every single thing I said but the only thing I lied about was starting out as third party as opposed to town miller.

That's how I would have used his role.

I was trying to win as survivor, for the challenge, but I would have had to kill that night and I would have killed royal, if you all bothered to let me live.
tulle
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5/14/2012 7:24:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyway, good game logic. The only problem was, as you said, night phases were too long. But I understand you're in a different time zone.
yang.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2012 9:50:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A couple things in my defense...

Checking the claimed miller on night 2 was really a brain fart. I get killed early alot so I tend to not pay as much attention to people's roles in the early phases. I saw that he had claimed miller early, but forgot all about that when it came time to turn in night actions on np 2.

Not VTL'ing Drafter on the day he was lynched wasn't as big a screw up as people think. Notice I kept saying that I wanted to give him a chance to prove his role?? From the way it sounded, he was going to kill Royal that night, if we had let him live. That was around the time that I began wondering if either Royal was mafia, or that maybe I was secretly mafia. I protected her because I couldn't see how she was getting my results without Logic handing them over to her. I knew that was a possibility, but it seemed far fetched. Letting Drafter kill her would have eliminated that doubt, without me having to put my neck on the line in case she flipped town.

Yes, ultimately I was wrong about Blue, but when I investigated him innocent, and then he explained why he chose those night actions, and why Danielle was killed (I forgot about her peircing ability), I backed off. And I was wrong about TV1, but had he not claimed SK, he might not have been lynched. Even though I had voted for him, I was kind of iffy, but when he claimed SK I think that did it for everyone.

TV2 stepped into a bad situation, and I think the damage had already been done by the time he took over for Royal. He tried to downplay the votes on Mestari and Marauder as unimportant, but those votes, along with that nagging suspicion of Royal was what swayed me.

Kudos to Danielle for calling it early...again.

As we waited for the results, I just knew that Logic was going to tell us that Xerge and the mafia had won. Xerge played very well and was instrumental in the town win.

All in all it was a very fun game. It came down to 4 players, no one was glaringly obvious as mafia, and an argument could be made against any of us. Well done.
drafterman
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5/14/2012 10:00:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 9:50:09 AM, medic0506 wrote:
A couple things in my defense...

Checking the claimed miller on night 2 was really a brain fart. I get killed early alot so I tend to not pay as much attention to people's roles in the early phases. I saw that he had claimed miller early, but forgot all about that when it came time to turn in night actions on np 2.

However, it's odd that Danielle did not check me.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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5/14/2012 12:48:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:49:21 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
I'm trying to post the mafia PM but the file's too large on firefox and it wont show correctly on chrome. I'll try it again in the morning.

Honestly the thing I'm most disappointed is that Xerge said he was nameless. He was actually named Bishop Smith. I basically suggested that name for the lolz. There would be Monde, Gamelon, Herzen, and...Smith. I thought it would make a funny discussion.

Anyway I'll have thoughts later.

Yeah, show it to us. This is one game that I am definitely interested in seeing how their strategy played out.
M.Torres
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5/14/2012 12:52:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 12:48:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:49:21 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
I'm trying to post the mafia PM but the file's too large on firefox and it wont show correctly on chrome. I'll try it again in the morning.

Honestly the thing I'm most disappointed is that Xerge said he was nameless. He was actually named Bishop Smith. I basically suggested that name for the lolz. There would be Monde, Gamelon, Herzen, and...Smith. I thought it would make a funny discussion.

Anyway I'll have thoughts later.

Yeah, show it to us. This is one game that I am definitely interested in seeing how their strategy played out.

Horribly. LOR was a b@stard mod. We got into so many arguments. This game had no part in helping Mafia - our only advantage was soiled by Mes' death and logic. I pointed out to my Mafiosos on NP2 or 3 how town should have reasonably figured out that Royal was in fact the evil Cop. On top of this, there were roles (Danielle, F16) designed to counter our only defenses and powers to the T. PLUS as I explained to LOR, information should not be hidden from the Mafia. It is their only advantage in any given game.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
bluesteel
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5/14/2012 1:34:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@Torres

What info did he hide from you? The 3P stuff? I know that would be annoying.

It seems town got super-lucky with TUF dying early. He could have been a huge hinderance. However, mafia caught a lucky break with drafterman. I was close to letting the DP run out. F-16 convinced me to lynch drafter. Had drafter killed royal, which was an obvious move either that DP or the DP before (if he was playing pro-town), since she was backed up and her role didn't investigate (and all the cops had claimed already), then mafia would have been in a bad position.

Also, I didn't really want to lynch tv. If he hadn't claimed SK, I don't think I'd have lynched him. That would have made mafia's job even harder. Although the only reason I stopped suspecting LDF was when xerge pointed out that if she was a popular mafioso, the game would have already been over. So I dunno if I'd have reached that realization without tv's death.

mestari's death was his own fault. He FOS'ed everyone and then claimed once people became suspicious of him (but without any votes on him). While he only had a 1x roleblock left (which would have been useful against F-16), his death was obviously a major blow to the mafia, numbers wise.

I'm not sure if I'd have liked this game if I were mafia. The 3P made their job nearly impossible, especially since 3P's often play pro-town (for fun). They had small numbers, so bussing wasn't really a possible strategy. And they were forced to claim specific roles (so they couldn't invent stuff to further confirm themselves). Personally, if I had royal's role, I'd like to think that I would fake claim something else. I think a normal cop claim would have been more interesting.

Regardless, LoR, to answer your questions about why royal never seemed to be lynched, it's two-fold: 1) a better target always popped up (e.g. drafter, tv claiming SK), and 2) the DP's and NP's were so long, I forgot why I initially thought she was scummy. The same thing happened within a DP (the one where drafter got lynched) regarding drafter. We often go off our guts in mafia games, but when the DP lasts forever, we forget why we thought someone was suspicious and let them rationally convince us otherwise by changing tactics. I think this is an argument for time limits. I just wasn't going to re-read the DP's - that wasn't something I felt like doing. If I had, I'd probably have advocated strongly for a royal lynch.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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5/14/2012 1:43:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Did you like the OPs and end scenes?

Some of them were quite interesting. The DP1 was confusing. Maybe it was more helpful in retrospect. I still don't quite get what the Garden is.

2. Was the modding and game well designed? Any problems?

Yes, it was quite interesting. I think your greatest achievement though was getting together so many great players in one game and bringing some back from retirement.

3. Were the NPs too long in this game?*

Yes, and some of the DP's. For reasons I already noted. A 3 day NP means I'd need to re-read the previous DP to remember fully what happened.

4. Was the game enjoyable

Yes. For me at least.

*I have a very interesting game concept that relies on a 2 stage NP, which means NPs could take up to 72 hours...

On a sidenote, the NP I said I'd protect medic, I actually protected xerge. Played a little game of WIFOM with the mafia. They actually killed tulle though, which was not smart since she was an amazingly good mislynch target and was by no means confirmed unless royal died.

As to 72 hour NP's, I'm sure a 2-stage NP lets you make more interesting night actions, but I don't think I'd be a fan. The fun parts of any mafia game are played in the DP. That's why I always try to keep my NP's (when I mod) to 24 hours or less, and I think people appreciate that. Which usually means I'm very strict and pro-active about forcing mafia to reach decisions.

This game was interesting btw because it taught me to trust my gut more than I have in the past. I thought medic was town because although he sometimes advanced unreasonable theories, he seemed open to persuasion. royal, in contrast, didn't listen once she'd set her mind on someone. Although one of the DP's, she waffled between lynching me and tv.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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5/14/2012 1:45:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What I don't understand is why people continue to think the mason recruiter is always confirmed. This is the 3rd game at least that I've played in where the mason recruiter was mafia.
yang.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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5/14/2012 1:50:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 1:45:22 PM, tulle wrote:
What I don't understand is why people continue to think the mason recruiter is always confirmed. This is the 3rd game at least that I've played in where the mason recruiter was mafia.

Mason should never be Mafia, imo. I used to think it'd be an interesting flavor, but I have now seen it shouldn't be the case. It should be like Doc or Cop, where it makes no sense to be a "Mafia" version.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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5/14/2012 2:00:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 1:43:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:

On a sidenote, the NP I said I'd protect medic, I actually protected xerge. Played a little game of WIFOM with the mafia. They actually killed tulle though, which was not smart since she was an amazingly good mislynch target and was by no means confirmed unless royal died.


After we killed Drafter and he came up guilty I was actually planning to advocate Royal's lynch whether she was mafia or not, but simply based on the fact that she was a complete hindrance to the town and wasted my time with a billion pages (I think I called out Drafter on like page 4 and the DP went to like page 50). I was quite annoyed about that. And quite annoyed that I died!
yang.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/14/2012 2:07:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 2:00:34 PM, tulle wrote:
At 5/14/2012 1:43:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:

On a sidenote, the NP I said I'd protect medic, I actually protected xerge. Played a little game of WIFOM with the mafia. They actually killed tulle though, which was not smart since she was an amazingly good mislynch target and was by no means confirmed unless royal died.


After we killed Drafter and he came up guilty I was actually planning to advocate Royal's lynch whether she was mafia or not, but simply based on the fact that she was a complete hindrance to the town and wasted my time with a billion pages (I think I called out Drafter on like page 4 and the DP went to like page 50). I was quite annoyed about that. And quite annoyed that I died!

Nothing I was "called out" on was justified, imo.

If I had just claimed pure miller, then town wouldn't have gotten hung up over the conditions of my role. So, ironically, I shouldn't have told as much truth as I did.