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Vito's Revenge- Endgame

medic0506
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7/1/2012 7:35:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
First Place: Scaletta Family
Second Place: Corleone Family
Third Place: Survivor
Fourth Place: Soprano Family

CULT

Don Vito Corleone- You are the head of the Corleone Family, and are determined to return your family to the top. After multiple losses, you have vowed revenge on all other families. It is your job to make decisions, and decide whether to recruit, or use the abilities given to your family members. If you choose to recruit, your family forfeits all other night actions. You start with two family members, but may recruit more beginning on night two, so long as that player is not mafia or third party. You may not recruit on consecutive nights. Since the cops have long been in your back pocket, you will show innocent to cops, this does not include spies, lie detectors or role cops, should they exist. Recruit the right player and you could have a lawyer/messenger on your side, for additional protection. There is a clue contained in this pm that may help you determine who that player is. There are some unrecruitable players in the game, should you choose one of them as a recruit, it will simply fail, no penalties. You have a one-shot bulletproof. You must kill all mafia, and outnumber the town, in order to win. You win with the Corleone Family (Cult). *Johnnyboy*
*Role hidden on death unless Corleones were previously outed
NP 1- Idle
NP 2- Recruit TheBomb- Successful
NP 3- Recruit Blackhawk- Fail/Unrecruitable
NP 4- Recruit HCP- Successful
NP 5- Idle, Killed by Falcon via contract. Bulletproof unavailable due to roleblock

Sonny Corleone- You are the hot-headed son of the famous Godfather, Don Vito Corleone. As heir apparent, you will work with your father to return the family to its rightful place. You are ruthless when left in charge, so the Don usually calls the shots. On occasion though, you have some autonomy, so every third night you may select one player to kill. On the other nights, you will serve as roleblocker and vanilla, the order is up to you. You must kill all mafia, and outnumber the town, in order to win. You win with the Corleone Family (Cult).*Fourtrouble*
NP 1- Chose vanilla
NP 2- Idle, due to recruitment
NP 3- Kill Spinko
NP 4- Idle due to recruitment
NP 5- Roleblock Johnny
DP 6- LYNCHED

El Greco- You went to medical school, but couldn't pass the boards, but that hasn't stopped you from having a very profitable career treating wounded mobsters. You are as close to a legitimate medical professional as a crime family can get. Therefore, you are the doctor. On odd nights you may choose someone to protect from kills. You may protect yourself, but you may not protect anyone twice in a row. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*TheBomb*
NP 1- Protect Spinko
NP 2- Idle, Recruited to Corleone Family
NP 3- Protect FT
NP 4- Idle
NP 5- Protect FT
NP 6- Idle
NP 7- Protect HCP
NP 8- Protect himself

Tom Hagen- You are the adopted son of the famous Godfather, Don Vito Corleone, and served as his trusted consigliere, and attorney. You hold out hope that your father will someday be able to reclaim his empire. For now though, you have to take work where you can get it, so you signed on to work with the Scaletta Family. The Don is unsure of what role you will play within the family, so until further notice, you are vanilla. You may be called upon at times, though, to do certain "jobs", and will likely be given a permanent role at some point. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*HCP*
NP 4- Recruited by Corleone Family, becomes lawyer/messenger
NP 5- Lawyers FT
NP 6- Messages Falcon
NP 7- Lawyers himself
NP 8- KILLED BY FALCON

MAFIA

Anthony Soprano- You are the Godfather. You will show innocent to all cops and lie detectors should they exist, however, if you choose to do the night kill you may be seen by watchers or trackers, should they exist. Beware, spies have the ability to see through all protections, should they exist. You have the final say on who to kill, and who will do the kill. Kill the right player and rather than die, he/she will be recruited to your family. You win with the Soprano Family (Mafia). *Spinko*
NP 1- LK kills Drafter- Successful
NP 2- Apollo kills Andro, she is recruited to mafia
NP 3- Apollo/ Budda2 kills Tuf, Killed by FT

Silvio Dante- You are the Soprano consiglieri. Each night you may choose one of the following actions: Framer/Lawyer/Messenger. You must use all three actions before re-using any of them. You win with the Soprano Family (Mafia).*Vampire*
NP 1- Frames TheBomb
NP 2- Lawyers himself
DP 3- LYNCHED

Paulie "Walnuts" Gaultieri- You are a Caporegime for the Soprano Family. Each night you may roleblock one player. You may not block the same player more than once every third night. You win with the Soprano Family (Mafia).*LK*
NP 1- Block Falcon
NP 2- Pass
NP 3- Block IFH
DP 4- LYNCHED

Bobby Bacalieri- You are a caporegime for the Soprano Family. Each night you may choose from the following action: Role Cop/Watcher/Goon. You must use all three actions before re-using any of them. You win with the Soprano Family (Mafia).*Apollo- Replaced by Budda2*
NP 1- Role cops Andro- Traitor
NP 2- Watches Vampire
NP 3- Idle/Goon
NP 4- Idle/Goon, Killed by Drafter via contract

Monk Malone- You were once a trusted member of the Corleone Family, but turned out to be a rat who cooperated with the feds. You have proven your disloyalty, as such, you are the traitor. You now work for the Scaletta Family, but if killed by mafia you will automatically convert to their side, rather than die. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town), unless you are nightkilled by mafia.*Andro- Replaced by Mestari*
NP 2- Killed by mafia and recruited.
NP 4- Waives mafia night kill
DP 5- LYNCHED

Third Party

Hyman Roth- You are an independent mobster, with allegiance only to yourself. You will be loyal, or disloyal, to anyone at any time, whenever it suits your goals, thus you are the third-party survivor. You have the following abilities which may help you: Messenger/Tracker/Doctor. You MAY use those abilities but aren't required to, however you MUST use both of these abilities at least once: Kill/Roleblock. You may not re-use any ability until you have used them all. You have no protection against investigations. In order to win you must survive until the end of the game, and have used the two required abilities.*Airmax*
NP 1- Roleblock Budda
NP 2- Kill Dninja
NP 3- Sent message to Falcon
NP 4- Protects himself
NP 5- Track Falcon
NP 6- Protects himself- Stopped kill
NP 7- KILLED BY FALCON
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/1/2012 7:37:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That looked like a fun game. Long though.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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7/1/2012 7:39:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
TOWN

Don Vito Scaletta- You are Don of the newly established Scaletta Family. You must gain respect as a Don by overseeing the elimination of your enemies in your first mob war. You will serve as mason recruiter, and may have up to three players total, in your pm, so choose carefully. You have a one-shot bulletproof vest. Provided that it hasn't already been used in an attack, it may protect you the first time you choose a non-townie to recruit. The second time you won't be so lucky, from that point non-townies will be allowed in the mason pm if you choose them. You will not be notified when your vest has been used. If you are killed, you may choose someone within your pm to take over as Don, and handle recruiting. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*Caveat*
NP 1- Pass
NP 2- Recruit Tuf
NP 3- Recruit FT, failed, BP vest used.
NP 4- Recruit Falcon
NP 5- Recruit FT
NP 6- Recruit IFH
NP 7- Idle, at limit in PM

Leo Galante- You are consigliere to Don Vito Scaletta, and are a trusted advisor. The Don can't have you involved in the dirty work, so you serve as a messenger. Each night you may send a message to one player. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*DNinja*
NP 1- Sent message to Caveat
NP 2- Killed by Airmax, the survivor.

Eddie Scarpa- Don Scaletta trusts you with the ability to choose a hitman who will do right by the family. Each night, you may choose one player who will carry out a contract hit on a made man. This player MUST kill if assigned, so if you do not wish to kill anyone you should pass. You will not have any control over who is killed, that decision rests solely with the hitman. In addition, you must not implicate yourself in any of the killings. This means that, although you may claim your true role (handing out contracts), you may NOT say who you chose on a particular night, or confirm or deny anyone based on that choice. Even if asked to confirm, you may not do so, nor may you confirm or deny whether you even handed out a contract on any particular night. Doing so will result in an immediate mod-kill. If you have any questions it's best to ask me first before posting. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*IFH*
NP 1- Pass
NP 2- Pass
NP 3- Gives a contract to Falcon, Role blocked by LK
NP 4- Gives a contract to Drafter
NP 5- Gives a contract to Falcon
NP 6- Gives a contract to Falcon
NP 7- Gives a contract to Falcon
NP 8- Gives a contract to Falcon

Henry Thomasino- You are a personal friend of Don Scaletta, and he trusts you to help keep him advised of the actions of family members. On odd nights you may watch a player and be told who visit him. You are also next in line for promotion within the family, so if a certain player is killed, you will take over that role. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*Falcon*
NP 1- Watch Caveat- Role blocked by mafia
NP 2- Idle
NP 3- Watch FT, Visited by TheBomb and Caveat
NP 4- Idle
NP 5- Watch IFH- No visitors, Received contract, Kill Johnny- Successful
NP 6- Idle, Received contract, Kill Airmax- Unsuccessful
NP 7- Watch IFH- No visitors. Received a contract, kill Airmax- Successful
NP 8- Idle. Received contract, kill HCP

Christopher Multisanti- You are a former caporegime for the Soprano family, but was kicked out of the family because of your drug addiction. Most people would be dead, but your cousin Don Anthony Soprano chose to spare you. Now you are hooked up with the Scaletta Family, but use your former contacts to keep tabs on what's happening in the city's underworld. Each night you will receive a piece of information, but since many of your contacts are also addicts, you will have to decide for yourself what is accurate, and what isn't. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*Drafter*
NP 1- Killed by mafia

Luca Brasi- You were once Don Vito Corleone's most trusted and loyal soldier. Since the Corleone demise, you had to seek work with another family, and hooked up with the Scaletta Family. You are aware of the many protections that other families have, that shield their made men from detection. Your old contacts, and spy network, proves useful to the new family, since your spies can see through any protections that rival families have. This piercing ability only works on people who have been previously investigated. If you investigate a player who hasn't previously been investigated, your result will be untrustworthy and irrelevant. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*Blackhawk- Replaced by Tuf2*
NP 1- Check Vampire
NP 2- Check LK
NP 3- Check Johnny- Disloyal
NP 4- Check HCP
NP 5- Check Falcon- Loyal
NP 6- Check Airmax
NP 7- Check Drafter
DP 8- LYNCHED

Aldo Trapani- Due to your military training during the war, and your proven loyalty, Don Scaletta entrusts you to help make sure that family members remain loyal. On odd nights you may investigate a person and be told if he is loyal (innocent), or disloyal (guilty). You win with the Scaletta Family (Town). *Ober- Replaced by Royal*
NP 1- Check Dninja- Loyal
NP 2- Idle
NP 3- Check Falcon- Loyal
NP 4- Idle
NP 5- Check FT- Loyal, he was lawyered by HCP
NP 6- Idle
DP 7- LYNCHED

Salvatore "Big Pvssy" Bonpensiero- **NAÏVE**- Due to the fact that you turned your back on your former Don, and friend, Don Anthony Soprano, Don Scaletta feels that you would make a good addition to the family. It is your job to help determine who is loyal, or disloyal, to the Scaletta Family, so on even nights you may investigate a player and be told if that player is loyal (innocent), or disloyal (guilty). You win with the Scaletta Family (Town). *TUF*
NP 1- Idle
NP 2- Check Johnny- Loyal
NP 3- Idle, Killed by Apollo

Luca Gurino- When you worked for Don Clemente, you tried to sell Vito membership into the family for five grand. To put it simply, you are as slimey as a mobster can be, therefore, you are the miller and will show guilty to cop investigations. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town).*Budda- Replaced by Drafter2*
NP 4- Given a contract by IFH, Kills Budda2- Successful

Brian O'Neill- Though you were an enemy of Don Scaletta at one point, your gangs made peace, and he brought you aboard, part-time, as hired muscle. You are the bodyguard and on even nights you must pick someone to protect. If that person is targeted for a night kill, there is a 50% chance that you will die in their place. If you are not killed, both you and the target will be protected. You win with the Scaletta Family (Town). *Royal*
NP 1- Protect Caveat
DP 2- LYNCHED
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/1/2012 7:41:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why was my recruit against blackhawk denied? We would have won the game if that had worked and since he was a Corleone it seemed like a great fit.

What made people recruitable and unrecruitable?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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7/1/2012 7:59:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fun game, cool roles, great mechanics, great mod.

First couple of day phases were hectic but it got better. I give this game a solid 8/10.

Good job medic.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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7/1/2012 8:01:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 7:41:16 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Why was my recruit against blackhawk denied? We would have won the game if that had worked and since he was a Corleone it seemed like a great fit.

What made people recruitable and unrecruitable?

He was one of the unrecruitables that I mentioned in the role pm. With several roles in the game that could hide true affiliations, it was town's only means of catching those players.

BH, one of the spies, and Caveat were the unrecruitables.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/1/2012 8:04:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 8:01:44 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 7/1/2012 7:41:16 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Why was my recruit against blackhawk denied? We would have won the game if that had worked and since he was a Corleone it seemed like a great fit.

What made people recruitable and unrecruitable?

He was one of the unrecruitables that I mentioned in the role pm. With several roles in the game that could hide true affiliations, it was town's only means of catching those players.

I thought the underlying theme or recruitables was former Corleone affiliation. It felt like getting the band back together.

Goddammit I knew we should have just fvckin killed bh and be done with it.

BH, one of the spies, and Caveat were the unrecruitables.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/1/2012 8:06:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 8:02:06 PM, Hardcore.Pwnography wrote:
I must say, that I blame FT for our loss.

He made some bad decisions when it came to night actions, but he posted the best scum analysis of any player in the game. In my opinion, he was MVP.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/1/2012 8:33:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This game was really fun. The mafia were underpowered though. It came down to town vs cult both factions were much more powerful than the mafia.

At first I thought the town was massive OP, and compared to the mafia it was. But that was not accounting for a cult. Mafia had no fake-claims - it was damn near impossible for them to claim anything since every standard role was given to town/survivor/cult. I was surprised they lasted so long but despite the skill of the mafia, it was pretty easy catching them. I'd say part of it is due to the skill of the town - we did play well in addition to being crazily overpowered, so well done town. Not only that, the cult played pro-town. FT was catching and killing mafia for us.

Compared to cult though, I really didn't like the last part of the game. It basically came down to brute force eliminating the remaining cult rather than the initial stages where we analyzed claims and nailed mafia. Mafia played well with what they had and gave a good effort. I honestly would not have wanted to be mafia this game. It was similar to the 007 game.

Town mislynched 3 times, Royal1, Royal2 and TUF. I'd say we were hasty in lynching TUF so sorry TUF. But it didn't really matter. Once TUF flipped inno, we got a guaranteed cult in HCP - I have no idea why you gave yourself away in a 1-1 trade HCP. Royal on the other hand - come on Royal. Both times, you asked for your lynch so it is not like you would change our mind.

In this game, I would say town MVP came down to IFLY. Once we got into the PM together, we were able to strategize really well and kill off all the cult. So, yeah, I would have said town was really OP but with cult, it pretty much put them head to head with a really underpowered mafia which didn't stand a chance.

Fun: 8/10 (At first it was fun, but killing cult came down to brute force rather than skill)

Balance: 6/10 (Mafia had no chance. Mestari played well though. His story was ingenious)

Timeliness: 7/10 (It didn't take too long but it seemed like the night phases were consistently longer than the Day Phases)

Theme: 7/10 (It was quite fun although role justifications made no sense at all.

Feedback: Leave out a lot of standard roles so mafia can fake-claim them. All in all, a really fun game. I would definitely like to play Medic's next game and I certainly want to play more games with IFLY.

@ Drafterman, good job convincing me to vote for the last cultist. I started worrying if I was wrong about you again. You have a great knack of convincing me you are town even if the results go against you. However, after weighing the evidence and night actions, going with theBomb seemed like the best option.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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7/1/2012 8:36:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Good game.

I definitely could have laid a bit off defending Vmpire...lol.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/1/2012 8:37:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 8:36:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Good game.

I definitely could have laid a bit off defending Vmpire...lol.

Yeah, you could have bussed him. Did he tell you to defend him in your mafia PM? I bet he did.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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7/1/2012 8:40:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 8:37:08 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/1/2012 8:36:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Good game.

I definitely could have laid a bit off defending Vmpire...lol.

Yeah, you could have bussed him. Did he tell you to defend him in your mafia PM? I bet he did.

Nope. I just thought that town would let him live until NP 3 to confirm his role.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/1/2012 11:35:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow, this was definately one of the funnest games I have played. Town dominated for most of the game and F-16 and FT were a mafia nightmare. I think the only part mafia played badly was defending Vmpire. We took out Social, LK, and Apollo because of that alone. Mestari though played very well and I don't know know how this game would have played out if we lynched FT before Mestari. Even though I'm glad F-16 thought I played well, it was the people who received a gun who were the town beacons. F-16 killed Airmax, HCP, and Johnny all with the guns I gave him. Even though FT and F-16 share credit in wiping out mafia, F-16 was the real reason cult lost this game, so MVP in the end was probably F-16. Drafter also played well by calling out Budda/Apollo and killing him.

I didn't think the np's were to long, most lasting about 24 hours. I think the huge DP's scared most townies away in the beginning. All in all though, a very enjoyable game.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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7/2/2012 12:34:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had a lot of fun catching scum early on. That said, I think this game was imbalanced and there were some modding errors that completely favored the town. For example, Budda/drafter was practically mod-confirmed, which immediately put suspicion on LK and social for trying to get him lynched. I thought they were scum before that, but that just made it obvious.

I was really upset about a few other things as well. First, look at the first part of blackhawk's role PM: "You were once Don Vito Corleone's most trusted and loyal soldier. Since the Corleone demise..." He was Luca Brasi, and according to the Wiki and medic's own words, he was a Corleone and one of our most "loyal" allies. This convinced me that the recruit on Luca Brasi would go through. That is the ONLY reason I decided to kill social instead of blackhawk and try recruiting blackhawk. I personally felt like this was unfair to the cult and put us at a huge disadvantage. medic hasn't provided an explanation for why he would make a "loyal" character unable to be recruited. It honestly makes no sense to me, and I feel like it was really unfair to the cult - like, johnny's role PM explicitly told us to look for another Corleone, but then medic makes the other Corleone unable to be recruited. If we had recruited blackhawk, cult would most likely have won.

Second, medic portrayed me as third-party AFTER I had already claimed vigilante, by saying the person who killed social was not affiliated with the Scaletta family. This basically confirmed that I was scum for the town, and put me in a really difficult position to defend myself. This was one of the things that made me give up on the game, as I felt there was too much modding errors that were favoring town.

Third, I roleblocked johnny thinking that it wouldn't block his bulletproof. No one else in the cult thought it would do that either. The reason was because according to the mafiascum Wiki, it says roleblocking does not block bulletproof or other passive abilities like that. medic didn't say anything, and I guess that's not his fault, but I still feel that after all the modding errors, the least he could have done is tell us that role-blocking blocks bulletproof and the godfather ability as well.

Anyway, it was fun catching scum with F-16 - I've never been on the same team as him, but this was the closest it has felt to playing on the same side as him, and we completely destroyed the mafia lol so I hope one day we actually are town together.
FourTrouble
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7/2/2012 12:44:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

Cause mod psychology sucks.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/2/2012 12:47:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

The only explanation necessary is that ones personal opinion on a certain role does not prevent them from using it in any games they mod. It adds a element of unpredictability, something that, imo, mod's should strive for.

For example, say I dislike a certain color of clothing. This would not necessarily prevent me from wearing that color, just means I wouldnt wear it as often, but still would on occasion.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/2/2012 12:49:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I truly do love vanilla ice cream btw, but it is most certainly not my favorite ;)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/2/2012 12:53:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:44:04 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

Cause mod psychology sucks.

^^This

I despise arguments based off of mod psychology because honestly, its wrong a glaring amount of times. From what I've noticed on this site, mod psychology is generally reserved for scum to try and lead a mislynch with...

Or LK, who does it every game he plays in...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/2/2012 12:54:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
@ FT, I agree with your analysis and don't deny that we had a rather easy time as town. However, I disagree that FT's confirmation was a mod error.

The reason I considered Budda/Drafter2 town was that had Budda been mafia, there is no way he would have left the game in frustration. That is the primary reason I knew he had to be town.

Also, you did really great taking out the mafia. Your analysis is some of the best I have seen in this game.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/2/2012 1:00:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:54:03 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
@ FT, I agree with your analysis and don't deny that we had a rather easy time as town. However, I disagree that FT's confirmation was a mod error.

The reason I considered Budda/Drafter2 town was that had Budda been mafia, there is no way he would have left the game in frustration. That is the primary reason I knew he had to be town.

Also, you did really great taking out the mafia. Your analysis is some of the best I have seen in this game.

I agree. He is well on his way to becoming one of the best players on the site if he isn't already. He caled me and Ober as being scum on DP1 in beginner games... it's pretty impressive.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/2/2012 1:08:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:53:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:44:04 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

Cause mod psychology sucks.

^^This

I despise arguments based off of mod psychology because honestly, its wrong a glaring amount of times. From what I've noticed on this site, mod psychology is generally reserved for scum to try and lead a mislynch with...

Or LK, who does it every game he plays in...

Well I have learned my my lesson. Sorry about leading the ml on you, you must have been pissed at me lol.
Buddamoose
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7/2/2012 1:24:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:08:53 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:53:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:44:04 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

Cause mod psychology sucks.

^^This

I despise arguments based off of mod psychology because honestly, its wrong a glaring amount of times. From what I've noticed on this site, mod psychology is generally reserved for scum to try and lead a mislynch with...

Or LK, who does it every game he plays in...

Well I have learned my my lesson. Sorry about leading the ml on you, you must have been pissed at me lol.

I learned my lesson in IC mafia when I used mod psych to stop MIG being lynched haha

And meh, it was you along with quite a few other people. My reaction test did work out nicely in causing social and LK to out themselves. Just took a bit for people to realize(excluding FT and F-16) that their behavior that DP = obvious scum.

Andro also caused herself to be kind of obvious with her, "idk much about reaction tests, and have never really used one, or seen them used, but that didnt seem like a reaction test."

That...well i think its glaring how scummy that statement is. As for you IFLY, well, you did the same thing, but to me you were just a townie with a mis-read(I said as much). The reason why I saw that you were, was because you were absolutely confident that you were correct, and there was no way in heck I was a miller, OR, that I legitimately used a reaction test.

Not only that, you didnt passively FOS me(Social) nor did you OMGUS(LK) nor were you riding the fence(Social, Andro.).

@FT- look at LK's reaction to my FOS, and you honestly cant say OMGUS isnt scummy haha.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
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"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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7/2/2012 7:21:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Endgame Notes

In case you don't know yet, the big storyline twist is that even though the op's implied that the game was about Vito Scaletta getting revenge for his old friend's death, it wasn't about that at all. The Vito in Vito's Revenge was Vito Corleone, who was seeking revenge for all the defeats he's suffered during these Mob Wars games.

This game was set up, not to showcase roles, but to force players to rely on instincts and behavior in order to win. I think they did so, and because of that town dominated more than any town that I can remember. They dominated in spite of some of the roadblocks that I set up for them.

1. Roles with duplicate abilities, having differing affiliations. This made it difficult for town to rely on a player being town just because he had an ability that was normally town. Town, mafia, cult, and survivor all had the ability to send messages. Town had an odd night watcher, but mafia also had watcher ability, and the survivor had tracking ability. Town had both a doc and a bodyguard, one which was likely to get recruited, and did. Even if the doc hadn't been recruited by the Corleones, either him or the bodyguard would likely have come under suspicion at some point.

2. Town also couldn't go by character name to determine affiliation. Mafia was the Soprano Family, but there were legitimate townies from the Soprano series. Cult was the Corleones, but there were legitimate townies from the Godfather trilogy.

3. In order to make them fit into the story, and make characters fit into different crime families, I had to make up most of the role justifications. This means that the wikis were essentially useless to the town, taking away another tool frequently used by townies.

4. I wanted to make it difficult for town to depend on cop results, or the watcher catching the killer red-handed, so I used the two-tiered spy (cop) set-up with one piercing, one naïve, and one sane. I'm kind of surprised actually, that TUF2/BH didn't draw more suspicion than he did. Even with piercing ability, the super-spy still only got one guilty.

5. Multiple roles that could alter spy results. Both mafia and cult had a GF who would show innocent to all but the super-spy. In addition, the mafia had framer/lawyer ability. If cult recruited the right character, Tom Hagen, he turned into an every other night lawyer/messenger. They did recruit that player, HCP, which is why Royal got an innocent on FT on NP 5. Town had the miller, which I typically don't use.

6. Cult remained pretty well hidden until DP 6 when FT gave up. I had decided that I would hide the role of Vito Corleone unless another cultist had been killed, thus the cult outed, prior to Vito's death. As it turns out, that wasn't a very big deal since his role only stayed hidden for one dp.

7. Town wasn't allowed to talk about vig kills. No planning, or confirmation based on who did what.

Problems

This was one of my sloppier games as mod, and I made several mistakes. In addition, there were some things that came up during the course of the game that I hadn't anticipated.

1. I inadvertently confirmed Budda's role as town early, by saying too much in the replacement post. All I wanted to do was let him know that if he wanted to come in as a replacement he could. To compensate mafia and cult I gave mafia a free fake claim, and gave cult an extra recruit opportunity. Turned out that cult misfired with that chance so it didn't make much difference.

2. In one of the op's I accidently implicated FT in one of the kills. I didn't realize that he had already said that he was going to kill someone, thus because of the op he had to claim the kill on Don Soprano. Since the op referred to a renegade, it made him appear as non-town. I'm not sure that I even saw that mentioned in the game thread though, so I don't know if you guys picked up on that or not.

3. I won't use this mechanic for the gunsmith again. It's really a pain in the butt trying to force people not to talk about it while everyone is pushing them to spill the beans. I like the idea of rotating vig, but only if there's a better way to do it that doesn't restrict discussion.

4. In spite of restrictions about discussion of vig kills, I couldn't stop the tracker from outing his results on DP 6, thus confirming that Falcon killed Johnny. I really hadn't anticipated that happening, but I don't think it made much of a difference anyway.
medic0506
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7/2/2012 8:06:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:34:53 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
I had a lot of fun catching scum early on. That said, I think this game was imbalanced and there were some modding errors that completely favored the town. For example, Budda/drafter was practically mod-confirmed, which immediately put suspicion on LK and social for trying to get him lynched. I thought they were scum before that, but that just made it obvious.

This was indeed an error on my part. All I wanted to do was let Budda know that he could come back in if he wanted. I didn't realize that the post was actually confirming him until after I already posted it. I did attempt to compensate both mafia and cult for that mistake.

I was really upset about a few other things as well. First, look at the first part of blackhawk's role PM: "You were once Don Vito Corleone's most trusted and loyal soldier. Since the Corleone demise..." He was Luca Brasi, and according to the Wiki and medic's own words, he was a Corleone and one of our most "loyal" allies. This convinced me that the recruit on Luca Brasi would go through. That is the ONLY reason I decided to kill social instead of blackhawk and try recruiting blackhawk. I personally felt like this was unfair to the cult and put us at a huge disadvantage. medic hasn't provided an explanation for why he would make a "loyal" character unable to be recruited. It honestly makes no sense to me, and I feel like it was really unfair to the cult - like, johnny's role PM explicitly told us to look for another Corleone, but then medic makes the other Corleone unable to be recruited. If we had recruited blackhawk, cult would most likely have won.

I disagree with this part. No where does it hint at Luca Brasi, or a spy/cop being the person you're looking for. However, it does say that if you recruit the right person, you would have a lawyer/messenger on your side. Tom Hagen was the Corleone lawyer, so I thought that hint was pretty obvious.

Second, medic portrayed me as third-party AFTER I had already claimed vigilante, by saying the person who killed social was not affiliated with the Scaletta family. This basically confirmed that I was scum for the town, and put me in a really difficult position to defend myself. This was one of the things that made me give up on the game, as I felt there was too much modding errors that were favoring town.

I did apologize for this. I didn't read the entire previous dp, and didn't realize that you had made that claim.

Third, I roleblocked johnny thinking that it wouldn't block his bulletproof. No one else in the cult thought it would do that either. The reason was because according to the mafiascum Wiki, it says roleblocking does not block bulletproof or other passive abilities like that. medic didn't say anything, and I guess that's not his fault, but I still feel that after all the modding errors, the least he could have done is tell us that role-blocking blocks bulletproof and the godfather ability as well.

As I explained, I didn't know this was in question. I assumed that people know that if you roleblock someone, all parts of their role are blocked. Unless the role specifically says so, you should always think that the player's entire role will be blocked. If you have questions you should ask. It isn't the mod's job to let you know that you're about to make a mistake. Doing so can tip you off as to the enemy's moves, so it isn't something that mods should do.

Anyway, it was fun catching scum with F-16 - I've never been on the same team as him, but this was the closest it has felt to playing on the same side as him, and we completely destroyed the mafia lol so I hope one day we actually are town together.
medic0506
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7/2/2012 8:12:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 12:43:04 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
I would like to know why Medic put a miller in his game given his strong opinion about the role.

I hate being predictable as a mod, and don't want people to be able to win using mod psychology. If I say that I don't like something, you can bet that it'll be in one of my upcoming games, but you won't know which one.