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Beginner's 10.2 Endgame

Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 12:11:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Winner: Town

- HcP
- OneElephant
- Oberherr
- IFLYHIGH
- Platypus666
- SarcasticIndeed
- DaytonaNerd
- Fourtrouble

Losers: Mafia

- Johnnyboy
- Medic
- Kyro
- Bossy

Roles

Town

Fourtrouble- Vig
HcP- 1x Reviver
Platypus666- Motivator
OneElephant- JOAT
SarcasticIndeed- Watcher
DaytonaNerd- Hider
Oberherr- Doctor
IFLYHIGH- Cop

Mafia

Johnnyboy- Cyclic JOAT
Kyro- Godfather
Medic- Ninja
Bossyburrito- Judas

Night Actions

Fourtrouble

NP1- Shoot Medic
NP2- Dead
NP3- Dead
NP4- Shoot Medic
NP5- Dead
NP6- Dead

Oberherr

NP1: Protect Self
NP2: Doc Platypus
NP3: Protect self
NP4: Dead
NP5: Dead
NP6: Dead

OneElephant

NP1: Watch Platypus
NP2: (Motivated) Doctor Oberherr and Sarcastic
NP3: Dead
NP4: Track Sarcastic
NP5: All abilities used
NP6: All abilities used

Platypus

NP1: Target Bossy
NP2: Target OneElephant(RNG'd due to non-submission).
NP3: Targeted DaytonaNerd(RNG'd due to non-submission).
NP4: Dead
NP5: Dead
NP6: Dead

HcP

NP1: Waive
NP2: Waive
NP3: (Motivated) Revive Fourtrouble and OneElephant.
NP4: Ability used
NP5: Ability used
NP6: Ability used

IFLYHIGH

NP1: Investigate HcP
NP2: Investigate Oberherr
NP3: Investigate Medic
NP4: Investigate Medic
NP5: Investigate Johnny
NP6: Dead

Daytonanerd

NP1: Hide Behind OneElephant
NP2: Hide Behind Medic
NP3: Hide Behind HcP
NP4: Hide Behind IFLY
NP5: Hide Behind HcP
NP6: Hide Behind Johnnyboy

SarcasticIndeed

NP1: Watch Platypus
NP2: Watch IFLY
NP3: Watch HcP
NP4: Watch Fourtrouble
NP5: Watch OneElephant
NP6: Watch Daytona

Mafia

Johnnyboy

NP1: RoleBlock Platypus
NP2: Frame Oberherr
NP3: Role-cop Daytona
NP4: Frame Medic
NP5: RoleBlock Sarcastic
NP6: Waived

Medic- No additional night actions beyond NK

Kyro- No Night Actions

Bossy- No additional actions beyond NK

Night-Kill(player who carried it out)

NP1: Medic
NP2: Medic
NP3: Medic
NP4: Bossy
NP5: Medic
NP6: Johnnyboy
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 12:14:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wait, town won the game on FUCKING LUCK!!!

Goddammit Platy why couldn't you have been active?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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7/15/2012 12:17:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:14:56 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 12:13:49 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
I am signing up for Beginners 10.3

Why would you frame Medic?
#FeeltheFreezerBern
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 12:19:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:17:31 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/15/2012 12:14:56 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 12:13:49 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
I am signing up for Beginners 10.3

Why would you frame Medic?

To be seen visiting medic, because I was asked to jail him.

It was an effort to semi-confirm myself.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/15/2012 12:22:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
HOW DO YOU COMPILE ALL THAT ON A FUCKINGGG PHONE???????????????
I'll play in 10.3 I guess. Is there a theme?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/15/2012 12:30:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol, did I not call Johnny, Bossy, and Medic being the last three mafia on DP4? Anyways, Town would have been OP if Bossy had played pro town. As it was, he decided to play anti town which helped mafia out alot. Mafia basically got a free DP and a free ml. So no, I wouldn't say town was OP in the end. If Johnny had played smarter, mafia might of had a good chance. Daytona was making alot of mistakes and even HCP was becoming convinced Daytona was scum. Extremely frustrating that I couldn't say anything, I even built a case against Johnny before I died. I'd say mafia MVP goes to Medic for brilliant arguments and town MVP goes to OneE for not falling for scum's lies. If I remember right, he caught on that Johnny and Medic was the last mafia pretty early in the game, so good job to him.

@Daytona- please never c/p ANYTHING from your role PM.

GG everybody.
IFLYHIGH
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7/15/2012 12:30:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:22:49 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
HOW DO YOU COMPILE ALL THAT ON A FUCKINGGG PHONE???????????????
I'll play in 10.3 I guess. Is there a theme?

Usually themes are the fourth and last game.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 12:32:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
And I'm sorry IFLY, but having a combination that brings back two town confirmed players is a game breaker
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/15/2012 12:36:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:31:17 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
What mistakes did I make IFLY?

1) Your NA gave you away. I think this is the second time you slipped up on your NA, so you might want to more careful when compiling them.
2) You need to learn how to bus a teammate. It was pretty obvious Medic was going to get lynched, but yet you still defended him.
3) You need to make a firmer stand on your opinions. You flip flop too much as scum. One moment Medic is your top FOS, next moment you are the only one defending him.

Things like this give you away. Did you do terribly? Not by anymeans. I no longer consider you a noob, but sometimes you can be kind of obvious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you did bad this game, just not exceptionally great. We all have our moments I guess.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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7/15/2012 12:38:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:30:13 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
Lol, did I not call Johnny, Bossy, and Medic being the last three mafia on DP4? Anyways, Town would have been OP if Bossy had played pro town. As it was, he decided to play anti town which helped mafia out alot. Mafia basically got a free DP and a free ml. So no, I wouldn't say town was OP in the end. If Johnny had played smarter, mafia might of had a good chance. Daytona was making alot of mistakes and even HCP was becoming convinced Daytona was scum. Extremely frustrating that I couldn't say anything, I even built a case against Johnny before I died. I'd say mafia MVP goes to Medic for brilliant arguments and town MVP goes to OneE for not falling for scum's lies. If I remember right, he caught on that Johnny and Medic was the last mafia pretty early in the game, so good job to him.

@Daytona- please never c/p ANYTHING from your role PM.

GG everybody.

I would expect that I make a lot of mistakes. This is my first full forum Mafia game.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 12:38:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:36:09 AM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 7/15/2012 12:31:17 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
What mistakes did I make IFLY?

1) Your NA gave you away. I think this is the second time you slipped up on your NA, so you might want to more careful when compiling them.
2) You need to learn how to bus a teammate. It was pretty obvious Medic was going to get lynched, but yet you still defended him.
3) You need to make a firmer stand on your opinions. You flip flop too much as scum. One moment Medic is your top FOS, next moment you are the only one defending him.

Things like this give you away. Did you do terribly? Not by anymeans. I no longer consider you a noob, but sometimes you can be kind of obvious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you did bad this game, just not exceptionally great. We all have our moments I guess.

I don't think I play well as scum. I think I'm a pretty good town player though.

What really hurts is when I'm working all day and the DP is over and done before I get back. And then I get called out for lurking.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/15/2012 12:38:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:32:21 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
And I'm sorry IFLY, but having a combination that brings back two town confirmed players is a game breaker

That was pure luck. There was no reason why Platy should have targeted HCP. Anyways, town was only afforded one ml this game, so it's not like mafia were at complete disadvantage. You only had to ml two townies and the game was yours. Like I said, Bossy is what made the game balanced
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 12:56:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
MVP: IFLYHIGH

IFLY showed skill in not only investigating medic, but FOS'ing Johnny as well. Except for the ML of Ober, IFLY played a great game and truly deserves this.

Bad Luck Brian: Fourtrouble

The guy goes to shoot mafia N1 and N4, and dies both times. I will say though that the moment FT died the first time, Medic was obvious mafia.

Top Mafia: Medic

for surviving as long as he did despite being guiltied.

"This games totally IMBA"

A few people have voiced the opinion that this game was imbalanced. That the motivator and reviver combination was OP. This imo, is untrue for a few reasons:

1) The chance of what occured, actually occuring was slim in the first place, not only would the motivator first have to target the reviver, but on top of that when the reviver was actually using the one-shot revive.

2) Despite this occuring, even if only 1 person had been revived, the game wouldve been at LYLO DP's 5, 6, and 7 rather than MYLO. The remaining mafia had still been for the most part, FOS'd/obvious. Albeit Daytona's c/p violation at the end wouldve given mafia the victory, but whats to say that same thing wouldve occured in this hypothetical alternate?

3) To counter the revive, I added a Judas into the game. Now what is likely unrealized, is if mafia had Nk'd the Judas, he wouldve converted unbeknownst to town and joined the mafia PM. That didnt happen though, instead he was lynched. Now this is important because, not only did mafia gain an extra person in this game via Judas, but town had to waste the next DP lynching bossy AGAIN. It was essentially as if town ML'd bossy.

So if you add the total # of mislynches town had in this game:

1) Ober
2) Bossy

They still didnt mislynch that third time, and after Once Upon a Time mafia, I wanted to make it so town would likely have to ML that third time to lose. For town to lose with just two ML's is something I realized is unfair.

4) The motivator had the potential to target a mafia role as well, potetially allowing for mafia to gain 2 NK's. This is a good example of how the motivator couldve ended up being a detriment to town.

"Too many investigative roles"

This also, I think is an inaccurate portrayal of the games balance.

Town had: A cop
Mafia had: a cyclic joat with framer, and a GF.

Town had: A watcher, and a joat with 1x track/watch
Mafia had: A ninja(watch/track becomes relatively useless and a potential tool to gain ML's with.

Town had: A doctor
Mafia had: A cylic JOAT with role-cop(to narrow down potential doctors), and a roleblock(to block the protection).

Town had: 1x Revive
Mafia had: refer to previous

Town had: Motivator
Mafia had: refer to previous

Imo, what really screwed the mafia's chances, was Kyro's mistake in fake-claiming vanilla. When Kyro ended up being GF, I knew either he would go the entire time being unsuspected, or end up causing himself to be lynched right away. Unluckily for mafia, he got himself lynched. Had Kyro still be alive at the time of Bossy's lynching, mafia would have won, and im fairly certain town would now be in mafia's position, saying the game was imbalanced in mafia's favor.

The way I see it, this game could've swung in towns favor majorly, but mafia had an equal chance of the game swaying in their favor as well. Im honestly surprised that the game made it so many DP's in, as I thought it likely one side or the other would win relatively quickly.

Overall, mafia were really victims of bad luck. There were very few things in this game that went in their favor:

1) The frame of Ober
2) Bossy's lynch
3) NK'ing FT both times

Other than that, the breaks just didnt go their way. However, thats just what happens sometimes. Doesnt mean a game was imbalanced because it did.

I also can't help but feel that roleblocking platy NP1 wasnt a good idea, as it just succeeded in outing Johnny, and had him essentially FOS'd from that point on. Not only that, allowing HcP to go uncc'd with his reviver claim. I saw a perfect opportunity for medic to CC HcP in his claim, and quite possibly pull of a mislynch of him. However, he chose not to, oh well.

Anyways, beginner's 10.3 is up next, and will have a theme of Flavors and Third Party. If you dont wish to play please notify me, unless you do, I'll take it you wish to participate in the next game and will send a role PM sometime tomorrow. The game itself will likely start tomorrow night.

Finally, any thoughts? Suggestions?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 1:02:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only person I foresee having to be replaced is Kyro(given him having to back out of modding his mafia game.)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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7/15/2012 1:02:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:56:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
MVP: IFLYHIGH

IFLY showed skill in not only investigating medic, but FOS'ing Johnny as well. Except for the ML of Ober, IFLY played a great game and truly deserves this.

Bad Luck Brian: Fourtrouble

The guy goes to shoot mafia N1 and N4, and dies both times. I will say though that the moment FT died the first time, Medic was obvious mafia.

Top Mafia: Medic

for surviving as long as he did despite being guiltied.

"This games totally IMBA"

A few people have voiced the opinion that this game was imbalanced. That the motivator and reviver combination was OP. This imo, is untrue for a few reasons:

1) The chance of what occured, actually occuring was slim in the first place, not only would the motivator first have to target the reviver, but on top of that when the reviver was actually using the one-shot revive.

2) Despite this occuring, even if only 1 person had been revived, the game wouldve been at LYLO DP's 5, 6, and 7 rather than MYLO. The remaining mafia had still been for the most part, FOS'd/obvious. Albeit Daytona's c/p violation at the end wouldve given mafia the victory, but whats to say that same thing wouldve occured in this hypothetical alternate?

3) To counter the revive, I added a Judas into the game. Now what is likely unrealized, is if mafia had Nk'd the Judas, he wouldve converted unbeknownst to town and joined the mafia PM. That didnt happen though, instead he was lynched. Now this is important because, not only did mafia gain an extra person in this game via Judas, but town had to waste the next DP lynching bossy AGAIN. It was essentially as if town ML'd bossy.

So if you add the total # of mislynches town had in this game:

1) Ober
2) Bossy

They still didnt mislynch that third time, and after Once Upon a Time mafia, I wanted to make it so town would likely have to ML that third time to lose. For town to lose with just two ML's is something I realized is unfair.

4) The motivator had the potential to target a mafia role as well, potetially allowing for mafia to gain 2 NK's. This is a good example of how the motivator couldve ended up being a detriment to town.

"Too many investigative roles"

This also, I think is an inaccurate portrayal of the games balance.

Town had: A cop
Mafia had: a cyclic joat with framer, and a GF.

Town had: A watcher, and a joat with 1x track/watch
Mafia had: A ninja(watch/track becomes relatively useless and a potential tool to gain ML's with.

Town had: A doctor
Mafia had: A cylic JOAT with role-cop(to narrow down potential doctors), and a roleblock(to block the protection).

Town had: 1x Revive
Mafia had: refer to previous

Town had: Motivator
Mafia had: refer to previous

Imo, what really screwed the mafia's chances, was Kyro's mistake in fake-claiming vanilla. When Kyro ended up being GF, I knew either he would go the entire time being unsuspected, or end up causing himself to be lynched right away. Unluckily for mafia, he got himself lynched. Had Kyro still be alive at the time of Bossy's lynching, mafia would have won, and im fairly certain town would now be in mafia's position, saying the game was imbalanced in mafia's favor.

The way I see it, this game could've swung in towns favor majorly, but mafia had an equal chance of the game swaying in their favor as well. Im honestly surprised that the game made it so many DP's in, as I thought it likely one side or the other would win relatively quickly.

Overall, mafia were really victims of bad luck. There were very few things in this game that went in their favor:

1) The frame of Ober
2) Bossy's lynch
3) NK'ing FT both times

Other than that, the breaks just didnt go their way. However, thats just what happens sometimes. Doesnt mean a game was imbalanced because it did.

I also can't help but feel that roleblocking platy NP1 wasnt a good idea, as it just succeeded in outing Johnny, and had him essentially FOS'd from that point on. Not only that, allowing HcP to go uncc'd with his reviver claim. I saw a perfect opportunity for medic to CC HcP in his claim, and quite possibly pull of a mislynch of him. However, he chose not to, oh well.

Anyways, beginner's 10.3 is up next, and will have a theme of Flavors and Third Party. If you dont wish to play please notify me, unless you do, I'll take it you wish to participate in the next game and will send a role PM sometime tomorrow. The game itself will likely start tomorrow night.

Finally, any thoughts? Suggestions?

Two things I learned.

1. You can not C/P from any part of the Role PM, even if it has nothing to do with the role.
2. The powers Wilt Chamberlain invested in me made me survive my impalement, and so I never got mod-killed. Just severely injured.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
johnnyboy54
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7/15/2012 1:03:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:02:37 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
The only person I foresee having to be replaced is Kyro(given him having to back out of modding his mafia game.)

If she's not going to be active, Platy.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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7/15/2012 1:09:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...

Wait, couldn't the motivator motivate herself?
#FeeltheFreezerBern
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/15/2012 1:10:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:09:34 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...

Wait, couldn't the motivator motivate herself?

LOL
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 1:10:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:09:34 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...

Wait, couldn't the motivator motivate herself?

She could have, but all that would succeed in doing is giving her an extra motivate, which is what she started with
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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7/15/2012 1:12:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:10:46 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:09:34 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...

Wait, couldn't the motivator motivate herself?

She could have, but all that would succeed in doing is giving her an extra motivate, which is what she started with

Motivate self- gain the ability to motivate another person, which is exactly what there was to begin with. Felt that I needed to clarify that
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/15/2012 1:12:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 1:12:00 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:10:46 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:09:34 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:08:35 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:07:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/15/2012 1:03:54 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
You don't forfeit town actions due to inactivity?

The motivator and hider had to select a target(could not waive) forfeiting wasnt an option.

Okay, I see...

Wait, couldn't the motivator motivate herself?

She could have, but all that would succeed in doing is giving her an extra motivate, which is what she started with

Motivate self- gain the ability to motivate another person, which is exactly what there was to begin with. Felt that I needed to clarify that

Endless recursive loop.

Come on. Do it.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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7/15/2012 1:13:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/15/2012 12:56:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
MVP: IFLYHIGH

IFLY showed skill in not only investigating medic, but FOS'ing Johnny as well. Except for the ML of Ober, IFLY played a great game and truly deserves this.

Bad Luck Brian: Fourtrouble

I know right? I was really looking forward to his analysis in this game but Medic wouldn't give him a chance. It seems like the poor guy can't make it past DP2-DP3 in a beginner's game as town.

The guy goes to shoot mafia N1 and N4, and dies both times. I will say though that the moment FT died the first time, Medic was obvious mafia.

Top Mafia: Medic

for surviving as long as he did despite being guiltied.

"This games totally IMBA"

A few people have voiced the opinion that this game was imbalanced. That the motivator and reviver combination was OP. This imo, is untrue for a few reasons:

1) The chance of what occured, actually occuring was slim in the first place, not only would the motivator first have to target the reviver, but on top of that when the reviver was actually using the one-shot revive.

2) Despite this occuring, even if only 1 person had been revived, the game wouldve been at LYLO DP's 5, 6, and 7 rather than MYLO. The remaining mafia had still been for the most part, FOS'd/obvious. Albeit Daytona's c/p violation at the end wouldve given mafia the victory, but whats to say that same thing wouldve occured in this hypothetical alternate?

3) To counter the revive, I added a Judas into the game. Now what is likely unrealized, is if mafia had Nk'd the Judas, he wouldve converted unbeknownst to town and joined the mafia PM. That didnt happen though, instead he was lynched. Now this is important because, not only did mafia gain an extra person in this game via Judas, but town had to waste the next DP lynching bossy AGAIN. It was essentially as if town ML'd bossy.

Question- Is the Judas meant to play anti-town? Because I'm having mixed feelings about the role. I like the concept of it- if the player initially plans on winning with the town.

So if you add the total # of mislynches town had in this game:

1) Ober
2) Bossy

They still didnt mislynch that third time, and after Once Upon a Time mafia, I wanted to make it so town would likely have to ML that third time to lose. For town to lose with just two ML's is something I realized is unfair.

Meh, I will say that 2 ml's isn't out of the question in 12 player game. I think you balanced the game well with the ml's.

4) The motivator had the potential to target a mafia role as well, potetially allowing for mafia to gain 2 NK's. This is a good example of how the motivator couldve ended up being a detriment to town.

I know, what in God's name made Platy target a random player such as HCP? There was no indication of whether he was town or mafia.

"Too many investigative roles"

This also, I think is an inaccurate portrayal of the games balance.

Town had: A cop
Mafia had: a cyclic joat with framer, and a GF.

Town had: A watcher, and a joat with 1x track/watch
Mafia had: A ninja(watch/track becomes relatively useless and a potential tool to gain ML's with.

Town had: A doctor
Mafia had: A cylic JOAT with role-cop(to narrow down potential doctors), and a roleblock(to block the protection).

Town had: 1x Revive
Mafia had: refer to previous

Town had: Motivator
Mafia had: refer to previous

Imo, what really screwed the mafia's chances, was Kyro's mistake in fake-claiming vanilla. When Kyro ended up being GF, I knew either he would go the entire time being unsuspected, or end up causing himself to be lynched right away. Unluckily for mafia, he got himself lynched. Had Kyro still be alive at the time of Bossy's lynching, mafia would have won, and im fairly certain town would now be in mafia's position, saying the game was imbalanced in mafia's favor.

The way I see it, this game could've swung in towns favor majorly, but mafia had an equal chance of the game swaying in their favor as well. Im honestly surprised that the game made it so many DP's in, as I thought it likely one side or the other would win relatively quickly.

Overall, mafia were really victims of bad luck. There were very few things in this game that went in their favor:

1) The frame of Ober
2) Bossy's lynch
3) NK'ing FT both times

Other than that, the breaks just didnt go their way. However, thats just what happens sometimes. Doesnt mean a game was imbalanced because it did.

I also can't help but feel that roleblocking platy NP1 wasnt a good idea, as it just succeeded in outing Johnny, and had him essentially FOS'd from that point on. Not only that, allowing HcP to go uncc'd with his reviver claim. I saw a perfect opportunity for medic to CC HcP in his claim, and quite possibly pull of a mislynch of him. However, he chose not to, oh well.

Anyways, beginner's 10.3 is up next, and will have a theme of Flavors and Third Party. If you dont wish to play please notify me, unless you do, I'll take it you wish to participate in the next game and will send a role PM sometime tomorrow. The game itself will likely start tomorrow night.

Finally, any thoughts? Suggestions?

If kyro hadn't slipped up and Bossy not play anti-town, I think this game would have played more like the way it was supposed to. Still, even with Mafia's bad luck, it came down to 1/3 rd of the players at MYLO- a sign of a balanced game. I can't really suggest anything since you did such a good job already. Nice game.