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False Roles hurt mafia?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/23/2012 10:59:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
False Roles are roles that claim to have some ability but the ability does nothing. Depending on what the role is, the player can target someone, but it won't have an effect aside from showing up to roles like Trackers. For reasons that should be obvious, false roles are never listed as such. Some moderators will not even consider who a player with a false role targets. If a false Tracker targets someone, the moderator will simply disregard it. False Inventor is a variant that is actually an Inventor, but its Inventions do nothing. Some moderators have even taken this concept to mean an Inventor who gives Inventions that claim to do something, but actually do something else (usually much worse).

http://wiki.mafiascum.net...

Let's consider 4 examples:

1) In Brawl mafia (if anyone even remembers), there was a false vig who could not kill.

2) In The Wire, the only cop was a naive cop - essentially making the role a false role.

3) In Blaise Massacre, the jailkeeper was merely a roleblocker.

Each of these scenarios have one thing in common: mafia killed/roleblocked this false role. In the Wire, it was done at the expense of the sensor - a far more powerful role than naive cop.

False roles cause the mafia to worry about who claimed that role and try to eliminate it even though it does no harm. This focusses the mafia's attention away from the real threats.

So, should false roles be used at all? If they are, I don't think they should be considered as underpowering town. False roles by themselves are not too bad. However, most mods usually consider them a liability to town and compensate the town in order to account for those roles which skews game balance in favor of town.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/23/2012 11:06:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would say I have to agree with you. If I'm adding in any sort of flavors, I account for them only in regards towards possible mislynches. I dont factor in flavors as a "underpowering" factor because of precisely what you just noted, that mafia will probably use their roles towards preventing that role from working as the flavoring is not self-evident in a majority of situations.

Thus to me, a flavor self-balances, with no need to compensate town for it. The only exception I might make is adding in an enabler if quite a few "flavors" are used.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/23/2012 11:14:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Plus, as a player, I always rely more heavily on behavioral analysis when determining scum, as opposed to results, this obviously affects how I mod. I attempt with every game to ensure that town doesnt rely too heavily on results, and rather, focuses on behavior.

This not only makes it more challenging, but keeps the game properly balanced, as mafia imo, are supposed to have the solid advantage at night, and if town has the advantage during nights, then to me, the game is imbalanced.

I suppose this could be summed up with, "results can be faked, behavior can't."
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/23/2012 11:18:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is an interesting vantage point, F-16. A false role is essentially a vanilla that thinks he's someone else. By assigning the false role, everyone, including the mafia, will think it more powerful than it actually is.

In this sense I think it actually better than including straight-up vanillas. Vanillas A) are boring; B) need to try and invite the mafia NK. By making it a false role, the player at least thinks they're doing something and, by virtue of claiming that role, puts them on the radar for being killed by the mafia.

On the other hand, by making an informative role false (or, more accurately, Naive), the Town is now being fed misinformation, which pushes the role into the realm of Negative Utility. This can confusion which won't be resolved until the end of the game, and possibly lead to mislynches.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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7/24/2012 2:15:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well obviously there's a degree to which false roles 'hurt' the Mafia. The very presence of a role has a psychological impact. However, the fact that that role doesn't actually work is clearly a better scenario for the Mafia than the role working.

And you're selective in your examples F-16. TUF in the Golden Garden proved a great mislynch for the Mafia as did Marauder. Marauder's role was useless and false, TUF's was most definitely false, if not totally useless. Point being, false roles have their place, depending on your game design.

False roles are one of the very subtle balancing tools that moderators can use i conjunction with story, background etc. to make for elaborate and competitive games. Plus, they are better than vanillas when it comes to entertainment. That's why I originally started including them - include vanilla like roles on DDO again while sowing confusion among the masses... fitted perfectly with the head inspector mechanic.

Really, I see no need to take action against false roles, although moderators ought to take a lot of care when putting them into their games. Too many false roles kill a game quickly.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/24/2012 5:14:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fvck it, I love a bit of bastard modding and false roles sometimes match characters too perfectly to pass up.

Having said that, I wouldn't use them excessively and when I have used them in the past, I work hard to make sure the game is balanced.
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