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Slaves of Time Mafia Future DP3

Mestari
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8/9/2012 10:17:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Dead last DP.

Johnny - Future: You are MONEY. Money opens up many opportunities in our lives. The rich and famous own private jets that allow them to simply take off and go on vacation whenever they would like. If stress is getting to them they can leave life behind. You are the COMMUTER. Every night you leave the game and become un-targetable. You win if either you are _____ survive until the end of the game.

Nobody died in the night.

Living Players

1. TUF
2. Vmpire
3. Zaradi
4. Blackhawk1331
5. IFLY
6. Caveat
7. Johnny
8. OneElephant
9. FT
10. F-16

With 10 players remaining it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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8/9/2012 10:26:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm assuming his pm reads "either you or _____".
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/9/2012 10:38:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I will make a drafterlist and then post thoughts on every player in this day phase. I was just reading mafiascum and was impressed by how players provide detailed evaluations. I have a lot to say.
Mestari
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8/9/2012 10:39:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:26:41 PM, caveat wrote:
I'm assuming his pm reads "either you or _____".

Correct.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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8/9/2012 10:40:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've given up having a separate one for each Time State. Build on this one if you want.

DEAD
Drafterman - Organized Religion - PAST:Doctor - FUT:???? - CULT
johnny - Money - PAST:Vanilla - FUT:Commuter - THIRD PARTY
Logic - Monopoly - PAST/FUT:Designated Killer, 1x Janitor - MAFIA

ROLE CLAIMED
Zaradi - Ingenuity - BOTH:Exist in both Time States
BH - Happiness - PAST:???? - FUT:Miller
westernmarch - ???? - PAST:1x Governor - FUT:????
Bluesteel - ???? - PAST:Day Vig - FUT:????
Vmpire - Conspiracy - PAST:???? - FUT:Nexus
Drafter(2)(Medic) - Seduction - PAST:Miller - FUT:????

CHARACTER CLAIMED
OE - Paranoia - PAST:???? - FUT:????
VK - Curiosity - PAST:???? - FUT:????
IFH - Luck - PAST:???? - FUT:????
TUF - Digital Technology - PAST:N/A - FUT:????
caveat - Communication - PAST:???? - FUT:????
F-16 - Enthusiasm - PAST:???? - FUT:????

UNCLAIMED
Bossy
FT
Budda
Apollo
HCP
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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8/9/2012 10:43:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Logic was lynched in the other DP. He was Monopoly, a Designated Killer with a 1x Janitor for the mafia.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/9/2012 10:50:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:48:02 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
What happenned to Drafter(2)/Medic?

How is johnny part of this DP when he is dead and Drafter(2)/medic missing?
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/9/2012 10:54:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, Caveat's drafterlist is cool. Any more complicated and it is going to give me a headache. Now that we have it on record, from now on, let's just concentrate on the players here, now. I think Mestari said we can read concluded day phases. Correct me if I am mistaken Mestari (we just can't read ongoing ones). So, focussing on the 10 players here right now,

Future

Role Claims
1. Zaradi - Ingenuity - BOTH:Exist in both Time States
2. Vmpire Conspiracy - PAST:???? - FUT:Nexus
3. Blackhawk - Happiness - PAST:???? - FUT:Miller
4. Drafter2 - Seduction - PAST:Miller - FUT:????

Partial Claims
5. TUF - Digital Technology - PAST:N/A - FUT:????
6. IFLY - Luck - PAST:???? - FUT:????
7. Caveat - Communication - PAST:???? - FUT:????
8. OneE - Paranoia - PAST:???? - FUT:????
9. F-16 - Enthusiasm - PAST:???? - FUT: ????
10. FT - ????? - PAST: Cop - FUT: ????
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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8/9/2012 10:55:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Town is monopolizing this game. I was gonna suggest that we all gather together in one time state to mitigate the effects of the mafia kill and be able to share thoughts more easily, but seeing as there hasn't been a single townie down yet...
Zaradi
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8/9/2012 10:58:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:57:07 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
Why would FT commute if he is cop in the past?

I think he said he hated being cop. I don't remember exactly but for some reason it's sticking out in my memory (regardless of whether or not it's true or not my mind thinks it is xD)
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johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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8/9/2012 10:59:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:50:49 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 8/9/2012 10:48:02 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
What happenned to Drafter(2)/Medic?

How is johnny part of this DP when he is dead and Drafter(2)/medic missing?

Because I cannot die!
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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8/9/2012 11:01:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:54:36 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Okay, Caveat's drafterlist is cool. Any more complicated and it is going to give me a headache. Now that we have it on record, from now on, let's just concentrate on the players here, now. I think Mestari said we can read concluded day phases. Correct me if I am mistaken Mestari (we just can't read ongoing ones). So, focussing on the 10 players here right now,

Did he? Awesome, got some reading to catch up on.
Zaradi
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8/9/2012 11:03:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Guys, I think we need to pressure FT. When LoR flipped guilty and mafia, Apollo caught that FT was defending him as town.

I already said, I have a gut-feeling about Logic being town. I doubt he would suggest his plan to VTNL if he were mafia. If I'm not mistaken, then idea Logic had in mind is that we VTNL and use our night-actions while the other DP continues going, and that way, we can stall a night-kill while getting free investigations. It's suicide for the mafia to suggest something like that. It reminds me of Wal-Mart, where Logic suggested a crazy idea that would basically break the game and win it for town. I've only ever seen Logic do that as town. When he's mafia, his behavior is really different - see Action Shows for an example.

I tend to focus more on behaviors than results, especially in recent games. If you guys decide to lynch Logic, nothing I can do about it. I'm just saying, I don't support the lynch.

And since he hasn't claimed for the future yet...I think this is at least where we should start.
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caveat
Posts: 2,137
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8/9/2012 11:04:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Me: "Query: Would it be against the spirit of the game for me to read DP1:Future or talk about DP1:Past in DP2:Future?"

Mestari: "Um, saying yes would cripple the town so go for it. Just try not to focus on the alternative time-state's ongoing DP."

This was when I commuted to the Future.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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8/9/2012 11:06:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 11:03:11 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Guys, I think we need to pressure FT. When LoR flipped guilty and mafia, Apollo caught that FT was defending him as town.

I already said, I have a gut-feeling about Logic being town. I doubt he would suggest his plan to VTNL if he were mafia. If I'm not mistaken, then idea Logic had in mind is that we VTNL and use our night-actions while the other DP continues going, and that way, we can stall a night-kill while getting free investigations. It's suicide for the mafia to suggest something like that. It reminds me of Wal-Mart, where Logic suggested a crazy idea that would basically break the game and win it for town. I've only ever seen Logic do that as town. When he's mafia, his behavior is really different - see Action Shows for an example.

I tend to focus more on behaviors than results, especially in recent games. If you guys decide to lynch Logic, nothing I can do about it. I'm just saying, I don't support the lynch.

And since he hasn't claimed for the future yet...I think this is at least where we should start.

Well it's not like townies aren't going to make mistakes. Also, FT has no problem bussing if he feels his teammate is going to die anyways.

Still, this is better than random pressure.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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8/9/2012 11:08:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 11:06:57 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:03:11 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Guys, I think we need to pressure FT. When LoR flipped guilty and mafia, Apollo caught that FT was defending him as town.

I already said, I have a gut-feeling about Logic being town. I doubt he would suggest his plan to VTNL if he were mafia. If I'm not mistaken, then idea Logic had in mind is that we VTNL and use our night-actions while the other DP continues going, and that way, we can stall a night-kill while getting free investigations. It's suicide for the mafia to suggest something like that. It reminds me of Wal-Mart, where Logic suggested a crazy idea that would basically break the game and win it for town. I've only ever seen Logic do that as town. When he's mafia, his behavior is really different - see Action Shows for an example.

I tend to focus more on behaviors than results, especially in recent games. If you guys decide to lynch Logic, nothing I can do about it. I'm just saying, I don't support the lynch.

And since he hasn't claimed for the future yet...I think this is at least where we should start.

Well it's not like townies aren't going to make mistakes. Also, FT has no problem bussing if he feels his teammate is going to die anyways.

Still, this is better than random pressure.

Well not only that but he also claimed cop after HCP claimed cop and had a guilty on LoR. Anyway, let us see what there is to see.

VTL FT
Da claimz.
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IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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8/9/2012 11:11:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 11:08:50 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:06:57 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:03:11 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Guys, I think we need to pressure FT. When LoR flipped guilty and mafia, Apollo caught that FT was defending him as town.

I already said, I have a gut-feeling about Logic being town. I doubt he would suggest his plan to VTNL if he were mafia. If I'm not mistaken, then idea Logic had in mind is that we VTNL and use our night-actions while the other DP continues going, and that way, we can stall a night-kill while getting free investigations. It's suicide for the mafia to suggest something like that. It reminds me of Wal-Mart, where Logic suggested a crazy idea that would basically break the game and win it for town. I've only ever seen Logic do that as town. When he's mafia, his behavior is really different - see Action Shows for an example.

I tend to focus more on behaviors than results, especially in recent games. If you guys decide to lynch Logic, nothing I can do about it. I'm just saying, I don't support the lynch.

And since he hasn't claimed for the future yet...I think this is at least where we should start.

Well it's not like townies aren't going to make mistakes. Also, FT has no problem bussing if he feels his teammate is going to die anyways.

Still, this is better than random pressure.

Well not only that but he also claimed cop after HCP claimed cop and had a guilty on LoR. Anyway, let us see what there is to see.

VTL FT
Da claimz.

Wait, he was pushing for a NL? FT almost always pushes for a lynch even if he thinks it might be a ml...

VTL FT for a claim.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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8/9/2012 11:12:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 11:11:09 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:08:50 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:06:57 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 8/9/2012 11:03:11 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Guys, I think we need to pressure FT. When LoR flipped guilty and mafia, Apollo caught that FT was defending him as town.

I already said, I have a gut-feeling about Logic being town. I doubt he would suggest his plan to VTNL if he were mafia. If I'm not mistaken, then idea Logic had in mind is that we VTNL and use our night-actions while the other DP continues going, and that way, we can stall a night-kill while getting free investigations. It's suicide for the mafia to suggest something like that. It reminds me of Wal-Mart, where Logic suggested a crazy idea that would basically break the game and win it for town. I've only ever seen Logic do that as town. When he's mafia, his behavior is really different - see Action Shows for an example.

I tend to focus more on behaviors than results, especially in recent games. If you guys decide to lynch Logic, nothing I can do about it. I'm just saying, I don't support the lynch.

And since he hasn't claimed for the future yet...I think this is at least where we should start.

Well it's not like townies aren't going to make mistakes. Also, FT has no problem bussing if he feels his teammate is going to die anyways.

Still, this is better than random pressure.

Well not only that but he also claimed cop after HCP claimed cop and had a guilty on LoR. Anyway, let us see what there is to see.

VTL FT
Da claimz.

Wait, he was pushing for a NL? FT almost always pushes for a lynch even if he thinks it might be a ml...

VTL FT for a claim.

Yeah, but I don't necessarily find that scummy. Although it does go a little oddly with his usual behavior...

Anyway, whatever reason we need. If his claims check out then it still beats random pressure.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/9/2012 11:30:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Analysis of each player:

1) Zaradi - His role is a useful way to relay information from one day phase to the next. Since we are not allowed to read the day phases, I highly doubt Mestari would make him anything but town. If misinformation is the only information we get, it amounts to bastard modding. Zaradi's power is tempered by the fact that despite getting a total of two votes one in each day phase, if he is killed by the mafia, town loses its most reliable source of information. As far as play is concerned, Zaradi has been mostly functioning as a link between the two DPs. Read: town.

2) Drafter2 - Replaced Medic and claimed miller immediately after. Due to the size of the game, it makes sense to have two millers one starting in the past and one starting in the future. When Logic got a guilty on him, Drafter immediately placed his vote on Logic. What is more telling is that he expressed genuine frustration, almost fear that Logic would be able to get away despite having a guilty. It is a feeling I sometimes have when town especially with players like Mestari and Logic who can spin complicated stories to make it seem like the truth and get noobs to believe them even when it is obvious to the experienced players that they are mafia. It was Drafter's consistent pushing of the lynch that led to Logic not escaping on the wings of a award winning fictional story. I am happy to call Drafterman solidly pro-town.

3) Blackhawk - Has been mostly inactive and lurking. However, he claimed miller as soon as the dp opened which to me is confirmation. "Miller" while it should be a negative utility role, in most games it serves to confirm townies rather than make them look suspicious. I believe this to be such a game. It is highly likely BH is town.

4) TUF - TUF has been active in the last future DP providing analysis on various players. He seemed very eager to lynch Johnny while Bluesteel was far more cautious. He came out with his claim quickly - a trait he commonly exhibits when town. He was also leading the DP and pointing out who was suspicious and was spontaneous as opposed to contrived in his interactions. Read: Likely town.

5) IFLY - IFLY has been fairly active in the lynch of Johnny. The main thing that struck out to me is that he kept contradicting Johnny on whether the mod tells us that the roles would change. Only town would be so sure about it. The fact that Johnny claimed Mestari told him that his role could change could potentially have been true only for scum. Scum are often told more information than the town. IFLY boldly contradicting him makes me lean towards him being town.

6) Caveat - Caveat soft claimed messenger which could really go either way. He has been helpful in making Drafterlists which usually is pro-town since they help town keep track of information. Other than that, no read. Will get on this.

7) OneE - Provided no detailed analysis although it is probably because he is a relatively new mafia player. Read : unsure, should full claim.

8) Vmpire - Vmpire's behavior was primarily lurker. He lurks as both town and mafia and bandwagons repeatedly often offering no analysis. This game was no different. Coming to his claim of nexus, it seemed extremely similar to Johnny's claim. Both of these claims have a way that the bearer of the role avoids investigations and has some measure of protection from the mafia night kills. I would not be surprised if Vmpire is Johnny's partner in crime. The ability to get away from the game each night without commuting which is publicly noticed by all players is more fitting to a third party role than a townie role. "Conspiracy" doesn't sound like a good word either whereas most other claims have some sort of positive connotation. Read: scum/third party.

9) FourTrouble - At first, I bought Fourtrouble's claim of cop. The most optimum time to claim cop (unless you have a guilty) is when the other cop claims. However, when I asked FT to claim his character and give justification for his role, he disappeared. I even held up the Logic lynch just so we could hear from FT. But FT never showed. He made a few posts after he was first asked for justification by a few others but did not provide any.

Logic was the DESIGNATED KILLER. This makes me believe that if he dies, the mafia lose their kill. This could perhaps be the reason that FT claimed cop in the hope of saving logic because logic's role is critical to a mafia win.

I was even more certain of FT's guilt when Logic claimed a third cop. FT and Logic together tried to sell the illusion that that there were multiple cops in the game. If the results on Logic were discredited, Logic could have used his janitored role as well as continue to kill for the mafia. FT is known to bus but any good player will have multiple strategies as mafia and will be unpredictable. If Logic dies and the mafia lose a kill, it is a horrible strategy to bus. For this reason and the long delay in claiming his role and justification, I believe FT is our best lead today.

VTL FourTrouble
TUF
Posts: 21,299
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8/9/2012 11:31:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Vtl mpire to the death. Conspiracy doesn't fit well with being pro town in my book.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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8/9/2012 11:32:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/9/2012 10:17:51 PM, Mestari wrote:
Dead last DP.

Johnny - Future: You are MONEY. Money opens up many opportunities in our lives. The rich and famous own private jets that allow them to simply take off and go on vacation whenever they would like. If stress is getting to them they can leave life behind. You are the COMMUTER. Every night you leave the game and become un-targetable. You win if either you are _____ survive until the end of the game.

Nobody died in the night.

Living Players

1. TUF
2. Vmpire
3. Zaradi
4. Blackhawk1331
5. IFLY
6. Caveat
7. Drafter 2
8. OneElephant
9. FT
10. F-16

With 10 players remaining it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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8/9/2012 11:34:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
About to be Evaporated

FT - 3/6 - Zaradi, IFLY, F-16
Vmpire - 1/6 - TUF
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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8/9/2012 11:35:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I get why some people want me to claim - I didn't want to lynch Logic - but that's not sufficient reason to FOS me. I'm EVIDENCE - in the past I'm a cop, in the future I'm a vanilla.

As usual, people are FOS'ing me for some really dumb reasons...

1) In every game where I've been mafia, I have voted for my teammates starting DP1 and ruthlessly lead lynches on them throughout the game. The idea that I would defend my teammate is simply not my style, since I know I can win a game without them and the risk isn't worth it. Of course, people will say it's all WIFOM, but that's how the game goes.

2) I do not support lynching someone just because someone got a guilty on them. The existence of two cops in the same DP, as well as the possibility of a framer, always makes me pause if there is no behavioral evidence to back up the results. At the time, I got a pro-town read on Logic (he was buddying with me pretty hard, so I probably should have been more wary, but sometimes it's hard to catch stuff like that). I was wrong in this game, but I've been right in many other games about not lynching people just because of results or because they were an obvious mislynch target.

3) IFLY says I always push for a lynch, but that's not true. I push for a lynch when a lynch is the best option for that DP. In Blaise Industries, it was a no lynch (which was due to me stopping the lynch on royal) that made sure we didn't have a single mislynch in the entire game. In F-16's game, I stopped the lynch on LK (a mislynch), which also led to a no lynch. I believe a VTNL can be beneficial to town in the right circumstances.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/9/2012 11:39:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
FT, you said you were a vanilla in the future. You started in the future, went to the past and became a cop. Why then did you choose to come back and be a vanilla while you could have used your investigations in the past? Why is vanilla preferable to cop as a role. This makes no sense.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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8/9/2012 11:43:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@F-16

I didn't have time to justify my claim. I was in class and on my phone, and my main preoccupation was trying to get people to hold off on the lynch. As I said, I generally don't place much value on results unless it's a lie detector, and I believe focusing on behavior is far more effective. In Blaise Industries, we had no results to go on (I was the only cop in that game and I forfeited my investigative abilities every night lol). We didn't mislynch once.