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Does OMGUS work?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/22/2012 2:47:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
OMGUS (http://wiki.mafiascum.net...) is a phrase often used to discredit an argument. On mafiascum, it is strictly defined by placing unreasonable votes on players who just voted you.

On DDO however, it usually encompasses almost every vote that is in direct response to an accusation, reasonable or not. It is often considered a negative thing but is it really a bad strategy to OMGUS?

The best players on DDO have a strategy of invariably OMGUSsing every single player who votes for them. I was reading over old games to see mafia strategies used and came up with this one.

- In Pixar vs Dreamworks mafia, Danielle is town and OMGUSses every single player voting for her. In HvV Movie edition, she is also town and OMGUSses all the players despite the fact that she was framed and got a guilty on her. But no one can deny that Danielle is good at picking out scum.

- In Walmart mafia, bluesteel OMGUS's me for suspecting him. He also OMGUS's Royal in misfits mafia for suspecting him. Again, as with Danielle, bluesteel is great at catching scum.

Overall, it seems like the favored strategy of the top players is to constantly OMGUS everybody. So, that makes me question whether OMGUS is a bad strategy at all since the best players use it to their advantage.
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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8/22/2012 2:57:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 2:53:31 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
It's total hypocrisy. Bluesteel criticizes me for making is strategy more well-known then he uses it against me.

Shh. Stop telling people about this. You too F-16, you started this blasphemy.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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8/22/2012 2:58:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I always thought OMGUS votes were not so much reflexive as they were tactica and experimental of your target's reaction. Nothing elicits reactions from someone like a vote for seemingly no good reason, other than obtaining said reaction... but it sort of ruins the purpose if they are aware of it.

But then there are the OMGUS votes/accusations that are actually reflexive. Those are useless.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/22/2012 2:59:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 2:57:36 PM, Mestari wrote:
At 8/22/2012 2:53:31 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
It's total hypocrisy. Bluesteel criticizes me for making is strategy more well-known then he uses it against me.

Shh. Stop telling people about this. You too F-16, you started this blasphemy.

Viva la Revolucion!
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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8/22/2012 3:01:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In all seriousness though, I don't think good players succeed because they OMGUS. I think their OMGUS succeeds because they are good. After all, would you want to FOS Danielle if you knew the moment you did she would slit your throat?
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/22/2012 3:02:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 3:01:19 PM, Mestari wrote:
In all seriousness though, I don't think good players succeed because they OMGUS. I think their OMGUS succeeds because they are good. After all, would you want to FOS Danielle if you knew the moment you did she would slit your throat?

This.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/22/2012 3:04:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not sure that the attack on me in Misfits was OMGUS. That was me being stupid and pushing for a Bluesteel lynch 2 minutes after the DP thread was posted. Bluesteel even said that I had him fooled until I had done that :/
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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8/22/2012 4:11:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't OMGUS very much (at least I don't think I do) and don't think its a good strategy. There's debate about whether its a scumtell or not, but regardless, it only serves to bolster your accuser's FOS on you. If I'm town and someone OMGUS's me, especially a good player, I'll be more suspicious of them because they're 1. Redirecting pressure, and 2. Making incorrect reads by FOSing me as town. In most instances I've seen, the person being OMGUS'd generally maintains or increases their suspicion of the FOS'd player afterwards. I mean, even if you think its not a scumtell, its hard to not be suspicious of someone when they respond to pressure by redirecting it to you. For instance, Drafterman's FOS of LDF in Action TV only increased when she retaliated by accusing him of being mafia.

Sometimes the person you OMGUS actually is mafia, in which case it would be beneficial. BUT, if you're town, your #1 priority should be to not be lynched. And if OMGUS tends to increase the accuser's FOS of you, then its not helping. I prefer to try and convince my accuser of my innocence first, which imo is more likely to relieve FOS on you than trying to redirect pressure. If that doesn't work, and the accuser continues to FOS you, then I would support OMGUS if you honestly find the person suspicious. But generally I just don't see how its pro-town. Townies make incorrect reads all the time, so if you OMGUS everybody then you're naturally going to FOS townies and possible force them to claim, while at the same time making them want to lynch you more.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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8/22/2012 4:18:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't get how OMGUS helps catch town, unless the mafioso in question is not very good at appearing pro-town. And all the examples you gave were used to catch good mafia players.

What sort of reaction do you look for in an OMGUS to help catch scum? I look upon OMGUS with scorn, regardless of whether or not I am town or scum.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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8/22/2012 11:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think OMGUS is something that shouldn't be generalized in the way that 99% of players do - every single instance of OMGUS has to be evaluated on its own merits. If someone FOS'es you for reasoning couldn't possibly occur to a townie, then it's correct to FOS that person back. The fact that it's OMGUS should be irrelevant. OMGUS can also be extremely powerful in many cases. For example, in The Mentalist, BV realized I was mafia because of the fact I was leading a lynch on him. He was the ONLY person who even came close to figuring the game out, and it was primarily through OMGUS.

The main issue at stake with OMGUS is the fact that scum cannot win unless they FOS townies, and scum can only put off FOS'ing townies for so long, which means OMGUS becomes more pro-town the longer the game goes on. If a player starts OMGUS'ing in the first and second DP, it's not gonna be accurate or useful most of the time, but a townie's best move on, say, the DP before MYLO is definitely to OMGUS. The best example I can think of is The Wire, where royal OMGUS'es me on DP1, and uses that to lead a lynch on me DP2 on no basis whatsoever. This is an example of how OMGUS tears a town apart on DP1. So basically, the key issue with OMGUS is timing - a well-timed OMGUS can win games and a badly-timed OMGUS can lose games.