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Slaves of Time Mafia Endgame

Mestari
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9/3/2012 10:29:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1st Place: Town
2nd Place: Mafia, Cult, Lovers, Juggernaut


Town Roles (12)

1. Medic: You are SEDUCTION (Town)

Past: You are SEDUCTION. Spending a great deal of time in brothels, the greater part of society has come to see you as scum. After all, you accept payment to sleep with married men while their families are none-the-wiser. You are the MILLER. You will appear guilty upon investigation. You win with the town.

Future: You are SEDUCTION. You are still the scum of the earth, so you are still the MILLER. However, you have a purpose in the future. The more intelligent members of society have realized that the most effective way to keep a man from completing an important task is to give him a rather pleasing alternative use of his time. You are the ROLEBLOCKER. Those who are experts at seduction though seem to be victims of lust, therefore you MUST roleblock somebody every night. You win with the town.

2. West: You are THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (Town)

Past: You are THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. The divine voice of the Lord in Medieval times, even the Kings of vast of powerful nations bowed down to you. Your word could force a crusade or halt an invasion in simply the amount of time it took your messengers to reach them. You are the GOVERNOR. One time per game you are able to single-handedly stop a lynch. You must message me in your role pm prior to the lynch going through. The DP will end in a vote to no lynch. You win with the town.

Future: You are THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. With many of your leaders being convicted of various counts of rape and molestation and homosexuality, faith has waned in your ability to interpret the Lord's will. In fact, these acts have drawn many to leave religion behind them altogether. Those who remain see very little purpose in the Pope and his seemingly evil organization as opposed to a simply spiritual and personal relationship with the Lord. You are the HATED TOWNIE. It takes one less vote for you to be lynched. You win with the town.

3. Budda: You are SECURITY (Town)

Past: You are SECURITY. What that meant back in the good ole days in the Wild West was to assign a Sheriff to every town to defend it. Unfortunately, this meant risking his life. You are the BODYGUARD. Every night you may protect one player from night kills. If they are targeted you will die in their place. You win with the town.

Future: You are SECURITY. Society has realized that the most effective way to purge the world of out threats is to take criminals off of the streets. The human race is the only species that has built prisons to encage its own kind – truly fascinating creatures I suppose. You are the JAILER. Every night you may target one player to protect and role block. You win with the town.

4. Viper-King: You are CURIOSITY (Town)

Past: You are CURIOSITY. Without a doubt the best way to get information is to find it out on your own. This sparked the birth of detective work. Think Sherlock Holmes – Experts who used hints to find out which suspect committed a crime. You are the COP. Every night you may determine a player's affiliation. You win with the town.

Future: You are CURIOSITY. It's not uncommon for somebody to want to know more about another person. One may suppose that this is why cases of stalking have gone up. Maybe people have just become creepier. Nonetheless, for one reason or another people have started to follow each other more than before and it all comes down to learning about the stalkee. You are the TRACKER. Every night you may discover who a player visits. You win with the town.

5. Caveat: You are COMMUNICATION (Town)

Past: You are COMMUNICATION. Benjamin Franklin was the father of the U.S. Postal Service. This revolutionized the way information traveled and the ability of friends and family to keep in touch across large distances. Writing letters became the primary form of communication with anybody outside of your own town. You are the MESSENGER. Every night you may send a message to a player. You win with the town.

Future: You are COMMUNICATION. With the progression of technology it has become much easier for people to keep in touch. We live in the digital age where we can make long-distance phone calls or even video chat with a group of people. You are able to keep in touch with those closest with you and contact them at a moment's notice. You are the MASON. Every night you may recruit one player. You will die if you recruit a guilty player. You win with the town.

6. IFLY: You are LUCK (Town)

Past/Future: You are LUCK. You have your hand in everything, or so it seems. Be it in casinos or getting the last good apple in the supermarket humans love to attribute their successes to Lady Luck. Therefore are as versatile as a JOAT. However, being that luck is supposed to operate randomly, so will your actions – to a degree. You are the GAMLBER. You have the following powers:

1. Cop
2. Watcher
3. Doctor
4. Role Reverser
5. Role Blocker
6. Nothing

Every night phase you may role a six-sided dice to determine your power. You may also blindly choose a random target. You may choose to use your given power on the target in the same night that you randomize them, or you may waive. You do not have to randomize both. I.e. If you have the power to cop and your target is player X, you may cop player X on NP1 and then only randomize your target if you so choose, in effecting copping player Y on NP2. However, as your role is destined to lie in the hands of fate you may not use the same power more than two times in a row or target the same player more than two times in a row without randomizing again. Although, you MAY randomize the same role that you had before and use it two additional times. Finally, as a servant of fate if you randomize the same role two times in a row you must use it that night. If you random the same player two times in a row, you must target them that night. When you choose to randomize your power, your target, or both, you cannot randomize again that night. I.e. if you randomize your power, you cannot change your target in the same night. You win with the town.

7. TUF: You are DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY (Town)

Future: You are DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY. Technology has reached a state where anything can be found via the internet using even a cellular phone. If you lose a piece of vital information you can retrieve it by simple use of Google. You are the UNIVERSAL BACKUP. The first time a power role dies you will research it to the point at which you can use it yourself. You win with the town.

8. Vmpire: You are CONSPIRACY (Town)

Past: You are CONSPIRACY. Words of conspiracy are equivalent to treason. You may not character or role claim or you will be executed by the king. You win with the town.

Future: You are CONSPIRACY. Thoughts of the illuminati taking control of world governments or aliens invading the world have begun to drive a select group of people who become studious of the theories insane. Anybody who becomes involved is seen as a whack-job. You are the NEXUS. Whoever visits you will be redirected to a random target. You win with the town.

9. Bluesteel: You are ANGER (Town)

Past: You are ANGER. Back in the day when people were angry they settled things like real men. They both met in the center of town each armed with a pistol and a single bullet. After walking several paces away from one another they waited for the strike of the bells to duel to the death. You are able to kill in plain sight so you are the DAY VIG. Every day you may kill one player. It will be announced that you were the killer. You win with the town.

Future: You are ANGER. As time went on outright killings decreased. Instead when people choose to take out their anger it is in the darkness of night. Regardless of their motives, killers opt not to be seen lest they risk being arrested. You are the NIGHT VIG. Every night you may kill one player. It wi
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
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9/3/2012 10:30:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
10. HCP: You are COMMUNITY (Town)

Past: You are COMMUNITY. During the times of the colonies various protestant communities operated under a sense of self-governance when it came to their faith. They all watched one another to determine if anybody was doing wrong. In a sense, everyone in the community served as a cop. You are the COP. You win with the town.

Mod Note: Paranoid

Future: You are COMMUNITY. With global economies on the down and it being harder for the lower and middle classes to simply make due, various communities are coming together to aid one another. It has become quite frequent that one would stay in another's house for an extended period of time while getting back on their feet, finding a new job, and finally being able to move out. You are the HIDER, every night you may stay with somebody. Any night actions used on them will also affect you. You win with the town.

11. OneElephant: You are PARANOIA (Town)

Past: You are PARANOIA. You fear that somebody wants to take your land from you. As such, you built the fences surrounding your property high enough to where nobody could simply climb over. This of course wouldn't stop somebody dedicated to kill you, however it will stop most others. You are the RETROACTIVE ROLE BLOCKER. Any non-killing roles that target you will be blocked.

Future: You are PARANOIA. When anything suspicious happens you gather a list of suspects and find out everything there is to know about each one of them. You want to know every detail from their date of birth, where they were last Monday, what type of coffee they like, even how often they walk their dogs. You are the SENSOR. One time during the game you may determine how many people on a lynch had skin in the game (how many are mafia). You win with the town.

Mode Note: Paranoid

12. Apollo: You are LOYALTY (Town/Mafia)

Past: You are LOYALTY. Loyalty is the keystone of community life. If an outsider comes and tries to cause a ruckus it is the job of the village to have each other's backs. Whatever happens, you will not betray the town. You are VANILLA. You win with the town.

Future: You are LOYALTY. Loyalty has generally been valued less as time has gone on. During medieval times, loyalty was of upmost importance. In the future however? It seems that the only thing anybody is loyal to anymore is money. Speaking of money, the mafia has a lot of it, and you have been bought out. You are now a member of the mafia. You will not learn who they are and they will not learn who you are, they will not even be told that you have joined them. Discretion is valued in times like these. You have to earn your way into their organization on your own accord, after all. They will not be seeking you out. Sometimes the mafia recruits to expand its ranks and other times to fill vacancies. If no mafiosos are dead you will become a goon. If one or multiple are dead - at the time of your betrayal - you will gain the role of the first Mafioso to die.

You have gained Logic's role. In both the past and the future you are a 1x janitor and every night killer.

What you have learned cannot be unlearned, and why would you want to considering your nice starting bonus? Going to the past will not revert your role. And finally, the role you janitor will be provided both to yourself and to the mafia, so if either of you claim it you will know who the other is.

Mafia Roles (4)

1. FT: You are CAPITALISM (Mafia)

Past: You are CAPITALISM. You are no stranger to politics. In fact, Chicago is a city most known for the political machines of the Gilded Age. Capitalism allowed mob bosses to thrive in political offices by offering rewards to those who voted for them. In effect they bought a guaranteed seat in the government and nothing could stop them. You are the POLITICIAN. Every night you may steal a player's vote and pick who it shall remain on for the entire following DP.

Future: You are CAPITALISM. You understand the purpose of the coin. Everything, and everyone, has a price. We live in a world where given sufficient monetary backing you can buy anything and everything. You are the SPY. If they mason targets you then instead of them dying you will simply pay them off and join their ranks. You win with the mafia.

2. Logic: You are MONOPOLY (Mafia)

Past/Future: You are MONOPOLY. The best way to control the market is to be the market. This is the essence of big business. Why compete when you can eliminate the competition? Complete and total market take-over is the only way to make a profit, and you understand this. You are the DESIGNATED KILLER. Every night you may choose one target to kill. As your goal is to eliminate your target's existence without a trace, you are granted a 1x JANITOR. You win with the mafia.

3. F-16: You are INDUSTRY (Mafia)

Past: You are INDUSTRY. The entirety of modern society owes many thanks to you. Your industrial revolution changed the face of the Earth and the course of history as we know it. New machines allowed businesses to become corporations and commodities to be mass produced. No harm could be derived from your arrival in society. You are the GODFATHER. You will appear innocent upon investigation. However, early factories had terrible work conditions. Somehow you manage to avoid the worst of the criticism by claiming user error on many of the difficult-to-operate machines. By forcing terrible conditions onto your workers you have destroyed many people's reputations as careful and diligent in their practice. You are the FRAMER. Every night you may target one player to frame.

Future: You are INDUSTRY. As the technological revolution takes its course various engineers and scientists attempt to make tasks more efficient. In fact, the entire goal of technology is to do more work in less time or using fewer resources. Therefore you are the MOTIVATOR. Every night you MUST choose one player to use their role twice. However, industrial machines are controlled by their operators. As such, the target must not be aligned with you. Finally, to prevent abuse you cannot target the same player twice. You win with the mafia.

4. Bossy: You are FATHER TIME (Mafia)

Past/Future: You are FATHER TIME. You are the King of this game. Every player relies on the ability to transverse the space-time continuum. As the master of this continuum you have the ability to prevent players from utilizing time travel. Once during the game you can prevent anybody from changing their time-state in BOTH the past and the future. You win with the mafia.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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9/3/2012 10:30:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Third Party Roles (4)

1. Zaradi: You are INGENUITY (Third Party)

Past/Future: You are INGENUITY. You are the reason that civilization has emerged from the pathetic barbarianism of our infant years as a race. Progress is the keystone to the world, and for you, the new world. You see, every era of man has been defined by some new advancement, some form of ingenuity; a pattern that will continue until the end of our race. In the future society will claim to live within the age of time travel – the remarkable ability to transverse the space-time continuum as we please. You are the TIME TRAVELER. You may speak and vote in both the future and the past. However, with progress has always come death and despair. You will know of this more than anyone once the singularity approaches. You win with yourself. Make it to the singularity and the world will be your oyster.

Singularity: You are INGENUITY. As promised the singularity is your personal domain. You have an arsenal of powers to aid you in ending the game. At your disposal are a 1x bribe (the targeted player's night actions can never negatively affect you, cops investigate innocent, vigilantes are roleblocked etc. for the rest of the game), a 1x redirect, a 1x roleblock, and a 1x silence. You also gain a kill every odd night phase and have become bulletproof. You may use as many or as few powers each night phase.

2. Drafterman: You are ORGANIZED RELIGION (Cult)

Past: You are ORGANIZED RELIGION. People flock to you for guidance. With the power of God invested in you, whatever you say they will do. During times of trial and tribulation they will seek out protection in your majestic cathedrals. The word of the men of the cloth within your organizations are sometimes enough to pardon a life from execution for crime. Afterwards, they will commit their lives to living to the words that come from your silver tongues. You are the CULT DOCTOR. Every night you may protect a player and if they are killed in the night or lynched the following day phase they will join the cult. You win with the Cult.

Future: You are ORGANIZED RELIGION. The acceptance of religion has declined and in your eyes, everybody is a heathen. Everybody is already dead, including the living, as they are all condemned to the fiery pits of Hell. Thus, converting a sinner to your faith is equivalent to bringing them back from the dead. You are the CULT REVIVER. One time during the game you may revive a player from the dead and they will join the cult. You win with the Cult.

3. Blackhawk: You are HAPPINESS (Lover)

Past: You are HAPPINESS. In the past happiness was an escape from the troubles of the time. Even without proper housing, without electricity or constant supplies of food people managed to get by. As long as somebody could do what made them happy it appeared that nothing else could affect them. You are the COMMUTER. Every night you leave the game and become un-targetable. You win with either you or _____ survive until the end of the game.

Future: You are HAPPINESS. In the future happiness doesn't get you anywhere on its own. You need money to buy the equipment, or plane tickets, etc. to be able to do what makes you happy. You are VANILLA. You win if either you or _____ survive until the end of the game.

4. Johnny: You are MONEY (Lover)

Past: You are MONEY. In the past money was only utilized to help you get by. As such, you are VANILLA. You win if either you or _____ survive until the end of the game.

Future: You are MONEY. Money opens up many opportunities in our lives. The rich and famous own private jets that allow them to simply take off and go on vacation whenever they would like. If stress is getting to them they can leave life behind. You are the COMMUTER. Every night you leave the game and become un-targetable. You win if either you or _____ survive until the end of the game.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
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9/3/2012 10:31:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Future NP1:

1. TUF – N/A
2. OneElephant - Commute
3. VK – Track Zaradi
4. Vmpire – N/A
5. Bossy - Commute
6. FT – Commute
7. F-16 - Commute
8. Zaradi – N/A
9. Blackhawk1331 – N/A
10. IFLY – Watch Vmpire, randomizes to FT

Past NP1:

1. Caveat – Commute
2. Budda – Protect Blue
3. Johnny – Commute
4. Apollo – N/A
5. Bluesteel - Commute
6. Medic – N/A
7. Logic – Janitor IFLY
8. Zaradi – N/A
9. HCP – Cop Logic
10. West – N/A

Past NP2:

1. Budda – Protect HCP
2. Apollo – N/A
3. Drafter 2 – Commute
4. Zaradi – N/A
5. HCP – Cop FT
6. West – N/A
7. OneElephant – Commute
8. FT – Commute
9. F-16 – Commute
10. Bossy – Waive

Future NP2:

1. TUF – N/A
2. VK – Commute
3. Vmpire – N/A
4. Zaradi – N/A
5. Blackhawk1331 – N/A
6. IFLY – Watch Zaradi
7. Caveat – Recruit Blue
8. Bluesteel – Commute

Future NP3:

1. TUF – N/A
2. Vmpire – N/A
3. Zaradi – N/A
4. Blackhawk1331 – N/A
5. IFLY – Watch F-16
6. Caveat – Recruit Zaradi
7. Drafter 2 – Roleblock Caveat
8. OneElephant – Sensor
9. F-16 – Motivate TUF

Future DP4:

1. TUF – N/A
2. Zaradi – N/A
3. Blackhawk1331 – Commute
4. IFLY – Does nothing to Blackhawk
5. Caveat – Recruit F-16, Recruit Drafter
6. Drafter 2 – Roleblock TUF
7. OneElephant – N/A
8. F-16 – Motivate Caveat

Past NP3:

1. Budda – Protect Royal
2. Apollo – Commute
3. Zaradi – N/A
4. Royal – Commute
5. Bossy – Commute
6. VK – Cop Bossy
7. Blue – Commute
8. Blackhawk – Commute

Future NP5:

1. TUF – Recruit Drafterman.
2. Zaradi – N/A
3. IFLY – Doctor Zaradi, Doctor IFLY
4. Drafter 2 – Roleblock Zaradi
5. F-16 – Motivate IFLY

Future NP6:

1. TUF – Recruit Bluesteel
2. IFLY – Waive
3. Drafter 2 – Roleblock Bossy
4. F-16 – Commute
5. Zaradi 2 – Kill Bluesteel
6. Royal – Hide behind Bluesteel
7. Bossy – Stop Time
8. Bluesteel – Commute
9. OneElephant – N/A

Singularity NP1:

1. TUF – Recruit Blue
2. IFLY – N/A
3. Drafter 2 – N/A
4. F-16 – Frame Budda
5. Zaradi 2 – Janitor Drafter
6. Bluesteel – N/A
7. OneElephant 2 – N/A
8. Budda – Jail F-16

Singulatiry NP2:

1. TUF – Recruit F-16
2. IFLY – Watch Bluesteel
3. F-16 – Frame OE
4. Bluesteel – N/A
5. OneElephant 2 – N/A
6. Budda – Jail Bluesteel
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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9/3/2012 10:31:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Endgame Analysis: The game ended out playing very well in my opinion. The cult died on DP1, faster than expected, and the designated killer died DP2 but I accounted for both of those to happen. There were a lot of connections in this game. The lovers both had commuter roles to prevent investigations from targeting them, they just had to sell it. The main way to catch them was via their roles. Money is intricately related to the market-centric mafia characters and happiness, as well as loyalty it seems, can be bought by money. This was also the way to catch the traitor after he became mafia. They possibly could have won this game if they were active and acted pro-town and if Johnny came up with a fake-claim. The cult died DP1, but all was well. The Catholic Church was a mislynch target that only really worked if Organized Religion was dead. West ended up dying anyways by nature of being West so it didn't matter though.
Other notable interactions include the mafia's backup. If he became mafia early he wouldn't give them any real power or any way of noticing him, this is because they would already have a framer, a night kill, and a poli all at work. There was no reason to make them more powerful if they were all alive. If Bossy was dead he could confirm himself to them at a strategic time though, and if any of the other mafiosos died he could confirm himself immediately. What turned out to be humorous for me is that the mafia was told that Logic janitored Drafterman after he died to tell them somebody was using Logic's role for them and they started interrogating Logic to find out what was going on, who was obviously clueless as well.

The town's backup also had a lot of shitty roles it could get, like paranoid sensor as the player's weren't explicitly told it was paranoid. Therefore from a townie's view it would be a power role. He really would only be effective if a real power role died early, as it did. This way he wouldn't overpower the town later on if all of the power roles lived and he then replaced one, say during the singularity.

There's a lot more that I can't seem to remember off the top of my head so let's get into strategy.

The town's perfect strategy would be to make it to the singularity and have Budda constantly protect Bluesteel. If blue were the dayvig and Budda were the jailer, as it turned out they were, then Blue would not be able to die or be redirected during the night. This would give him a free kill every day until Budda is killed.

The mafia's strategy should have been to keep F-16 in the past and have him claim a 1x motivator in the future so that he's not obligated to continually use the role and he can actually go to the past. He can then manipulate investigations to cause more mislynches while staying safe himself. The night kill was role-based because quite frankly it wasn't too important, as you saw. The main role were the Godfather/Framer and the Poli/Spy. Those two players were supposed to confirm themselves and manipulate the odds. Too bad FT died off defending Logic. By the way, FT's role was janitored as to not auto-confirm the mason as a mason. The mason was never intended to be confirmed prior to his own death.

Since this game was so large I didn't randomize the roles entirely. I made Blue the vigilante because that role was the town's main weapon. Practically everybody else was a mislynch target save for a few. I also made Drafter the cult leader and put FT, F-16, and Logic all in the mafia, because they were extremely underpowered despite what seemed to be a close game. The mafia also was forced more so than usual to craft mislynch stories so I needed good players over there. Everything else was randomized.

The mafia took some heavy hits early on. NP1 Logic was investigated guilty by the paranoid cop. The paranoid cop was put into the game to force mislynches but that was the only result received all game. In fact, there was only one other investigation by them and it was on FT who commuted that night and was mafia as well. So that's one thing that worked opposite of how I expected. However, Logic should have never died. HCP could have deduced he was paranoid via clues I had planted. First off, his role pm specifically cites protestant communities in colonial America. He seemed to ignore the protestant part in his paraphrasing of his role. Along with that he was community. Communities are quite often responsible for vigilante justice in cases where it is not due. Take for example the Salem Witch Trials. Speaking of which, who here remembers the vote count in the past? Yes, "About to be Burned." Let's see, a cop whose character is Community with his role inspired by protestants during the past with people dying by burning on the stake. I would wonder if I was paranoid if that were me. Logic and FT made a damning effort but in the end it failed and FT soon died for defending Logic. However, F-16 played remarkably well and survived for as long as he conceivably could. The mafia had a solid chance at winning once Apollo finally commuted and Zaradi (2) replaced him, however Zaradi played extremely poorly and effectively ended the game for the mafia. He could have killed TUF in which case one of two things would happen. 1) He dies and the recruit target appears guilty, or 2) he is jailed by Budda in which case no additional townie is confirmed. Either way more is gained than killing the confirmed miller, Drafter. I have no clue why he would kill Drafter, but he did. Had TUF recruited F-16 that NP it may have worked out as the only person in the mason pm would be dead as well, but that was a slim chance. If not TUF then Zaradi should have janitored Bluesteel and used his character claim to alert the mafia of his presence. Even then, he screwed up his paraphrase and got himself killed very quickly.

Speaking of Zaradi, let's talk about the juggernaut. This was a role that appeared pro-town in nature and was easy to play as pro-town to avoid investigations. However, coming the singularity people may question the true purpose of the role if there is only one time-state, which is why I allowed him a bribe, a redirect, and a roleblock. Zaradi was one lynch away from becoming the juggernaut when he led a witch-hunt on Blue for no apparent reason. Even if he thought Blue was scum there was no reason to try a lynch him.

Now let's look at the lovers. There's not much to say there, they were inactive thus they lost. They had a legitimate shot in the end though. OE could have gotten Blue to vig F-16 in which case OE would have won. Regardless, he claimed.

The town played pretty much as expected behavior-wise. They killed mislynch targets, they killed mafia. Sh!t happens. One thing I found interesting though is that the town bandwagoned Blue's analysis of possible mislynch targets and then refused to believe that Blue was a pseudo-confirmed serial killer. In my last game I used a SK that investigated innocent and told him there were no vigs, so I don't understand why they put it past me this game, especially since Blue's analysis effectively being "Mestari's a devilish mod" would apply to his role as well. It would have been funny to see the game go that way, at least for me.

MVP goes to Blue for killing lots of mafia and the cult recruiter DP1. However he had some silly analysis in my opinion on the last DP. It was pretty much, "If you were mafia when you responded like that then you are either mafia because of X or mafia because of Y, but I'm going to ignore the possibility that you were town and that your response would be justified because of Z."

I hope you all enjoyed the game.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/3/2012 12:05:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
-looks at what I would've gotten-

GOD DAMMIT. WHY COULDN'T I HAVE JUST SHUT MY FVCKING MOUTH!?!?!?!? GOD FVCKING DAMMIT!!!!!!! DDDDDDDD:
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IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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9/3/2012 12:28:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I actually really liked this game, more than I did Mestari's last one at least. Scum for the most part were easy to pick out. Even though I didn't think Bossy's accidental hammer was worth a lynch, his behavior and paraphrased role quickly changed my mind. Zaradi basically stamped scum on his forehead both times as scum. OneE was riding the fence on everything and didn't actually want to contribute any. Johnny flat out lied. F-16 was the hardest one to figure out, but I always found his cheerleader role as an odd title. Of all the names Mestari could have picked for a PAST role, he choose CHEERLEADER? While that alone didn't convince me, his TP gambit later pretty much confirmed him as the last mafia.

Town as a whole was just awesome. There at the end, there wasn't even really debate on who was scum as town pretty much figured out it had to be Zaradi and OneE. GG everyone. Now for FT's game to begin!
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".
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Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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9/3/2012 12:32:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

Did you even think about your role paraphrase? Your defense was, "Well, that's what Mestari made the role."
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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9/3/2012 12:33:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

http://www.debate.org...

It's all there man.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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9/3/2012 12:34:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:32:03 PM, Mestari wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

Did you even think about your role paraphrase? Your defense was, "Well, that's what Mestari made the role."

This. Your paraphrased past role made no sense and you didn't even have an excuse as to why it was like that.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/3/2012 12:34:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:32:03 PM, Mestari wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

Did you even think about your role paraphrase? Your defense was, "Well, that's what Mestari made the role."

I was a little screwed since there really wasn't all that much I could've done with Loyalty in the future (something that arguably doesn't exist anymore). I could've gone miller, but I didn't think that would work at all. So what was I supposed to do?
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Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/3/2012 12:36:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:34:10 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:32:03 PM, Mestari wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

Did you even think about your role paraphrase? Your defense was, "Well, that's what Mestari made the role."

This. Your paraphrased past role made no sense and you didn't even have an excuse as to why it was like that.

My paraphrased PAST ROLE? Oh, you mean the one where I was TOWN? >.> gtfo.
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Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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9/3/2012 12:43:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:34:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:

I was a little screwed since there really wasn't all that much I could've done with Loyalty in the future (something that arguably doesn't exist anymore). I could've gone miller, but I didn't think that would work at all. So what was I supposed to do?

There's plenty you could have done. Personally I would have claimed role cop since everybody's roles were already revealed and said that loyalty allows you to learn people's most confidential secrets.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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9/3/2012 12:49:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:36:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:34:10 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:32:03 PM, Mestari wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:30:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
@ IFLY:

Okay, now I'm curious. I understand how I could've behaved poorly when I was 3P, but I wanna know what you're smoking if you think I made myself obvious the second time. Other than "Oh I just had a feeling".

Did you even think about your role paraphrase? Your defense was, "Well, that's what Mestari made the role."

This. Your paraphrased past role made no sense and you didn't even have an excuse as to why it was like that.

My paraphrased PAST ROLE? Oh, you mean the one where I was TOWN? >.> gtfo.

Dude, chill the fvck out. Your paraphrased role didn't make sense. Period. It's not even like that was the main or only reason I wanted to lynch you. Your behavior didn't make since. Apollo's behavior didn't make since. We had good reason to believe other people were tow making you mafia by process of elimination. You got caught fair and square. Deal with it.

And is anybody else getting these stupid 500 server errors everytime you try to post?
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/3/2012 1:12:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For most of the game, mafia had no idea that not only did we have an extra mafioso in the form of Zaradi(2) but also that he was performing kills for us. This led us to believe that we would lose no matter what. About halfway through the game (when bluesteel called out bossy on his "accidental" hammer), we thought it was game over because bluesteel was going to vig bossy and I would basically have to survive until it was 1-1. We belived the town had two kills and we had none. We had no idea how close the game really was. Most of the time in the mafia PM, I was just complaining about how it is game over anyways (sorry about that Mestari).

At first glance town seemed overpowered and intimidating to us. It is apparent now that that wasn't exactly the case. The backup mason recruiter screwed us over as did the paranoid cop but it needn't have turned out the way it did. For instance, if a power role other than Mason recruiter died or if the paranoid cop had not investigated Logic, then it wouldn't have hurt the mafia as much. Overall, our luck was really bad.

With that said, I will admit that we made a lot of mistakes too. In hindsight, the "cheerleader" role was ridiculous. I wanted an excuse for being caught framing people so claimed a useless complusive role seeing as those are becoming common nowadays. It never occured to me that town would visualize high school cheerleaders and reason that those didn't exist in the past which sucked. Also, when TUF recruited me, I should have said nothing and played it off as mafia night killing TUF although I doubt it would have worked. Having a mason recruiter at that late stage worked against the mafia. I will say it was balanced though considering FT was a Mason spy. Had FT lived and not me, he would have been confirmed. Other mafia mistakes: FT defending Logic and Bossy overall. I guess we can all live and learn from our mistakes for the next game.

Now, on the town side, bluesteel and IFLY played really, really well. Bluesteel was a scum-catching machine and IFLY was consistently spot-on in his analysis. They caught scum over and over and over. There were a lot of scum for town to get rid of and they got rid of them all. Great achievement.

Mestari, if I had one criticism about the game, it would be the designated killer. I think everything else was brilliantly modded and entertaining. Losing our designated killer basically ensured that we need 6 mislynches to win. Even in a 20 player game, that was a huge ask, don't you think? Even if someone was about to get mislynched, the dayvig can still kill them freeing town up to lynch yet another player. I felt it gave them a really wide margin of error (although they were smart enough to only mislynch four times), it was still required that they mislynch 6 times for mafia to win. Also, the loss of a kill means that mafia can't eliminate the "confirmed" townies. Standard mafia procedure is to kill confirmed townies while mislynching the suspicious ones. Having Zaradi as a backup killer helped somewhat but I felt that if I, FT, and Logic could have chosen the kills, it would have worked better.

Overall, I enjoyed most of this game. The roles were incredibly well-written and gave a lot of clues. The past and future DPs offered a very unique and enjoyable element, and the singularity was just as interesting when we all came together. Another point: regarding what you said about mafia strategy being that I should stay in the past, it really wouldn't have worked out since I had to sell the town that I was doing the most pro-town thing by being where I had a useful role, the future. It is a shame I didn't get to play more with bluesteel though. Most of the time, we were in separate day phases and he didn't read any of the previous future day phases so there was no chance of trying any long-term deceptions. Drafter was my main threat overall but he died before the critical day phase.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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9/3/2012 1:35:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
F-16 was so close!

The thing that sucks most from my perspective is that Logic and I were completely right about HCP's flavor and the general unreliability of results - I mean, c'mon, Mestari even put a paranoid sensor in here - yet we got screwed anyway. I think if we had been surrounded by a different set of players, say, bluesteel (who is generally more skeptical of results), we might have lived long enough to expose HCP's flavor and save ourselves. I guess it came down to luck, though.

F-16 played great, and even though I died early, I still had a really fun time discussing the game with him in the mafia PM. I'd say the game went as well as it could have for the mafia given our horrid start. By DP3, it was F-16 and bossy left against what seemed like impossible odds and no night-kill power. Yet F-16 made it through to the singularity. I will say it was a pleasure being on the same team as him F-16, and I really hope we get to be mafia together again in the future.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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9/3/2012 2:29:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lol @ the paranoid cop thing

Although it's not completely surprising who HCP picked, given that so many good players were mafia. A pretty standard cop SOP is to check all the good players so you know whether you can trust their analysis. And if mod-balancing happens often, good players will be disproportionately mafia.

F-16 played really really well. I didn't have any major actionable suspicions against him until TUF died. Who knows what would have happened if zaradi(2) had killed TUF instead of drafter(2).

Bossy really screwed up. I can't believe I missed that he copy/pasted the last part that was mafia communication. @Bossy - granted, you may have really accidentally hammered, but townies are usually more careful in checking the vote count before hammering and/or double checking that town actually wants that person dead. It was pretty clear that some of us only wanted a claim.

zaradi(1) also really altered the outcome of the game. He could have easily just let bossy be lynched, thus getting tot he singularity. Even after starting a crusade against me, had he given the crusade up once it became clear it wasn't working, I still think town would have moved on to someone else. Townies can generally admit they are wrong; scum often cannot.

Overall, I found this game quite fun. I think the dynamics with having a past and a future, as well as multiple roles was really great. Major props to mestari - I might have done even worse than you in balancing roles, given I have so much trouble envisioning all the different past/future scenarios. Well done, really. This was a nice last game to play, given I can't play for awhile. I really should be doing homework right now, as we speak. Law school......

Anyways, I'm sad that I can't play with you guys anymore until next summer. It's been really fun, and I'll miss our many interesting interactions.

<3 bluesteel
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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9/4/2012 2:03:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This looked like an epic (yes, a correct use of the word) , fascinating game, and I was ready to devote quite a lot of time to it. I kept up after my untimely death, but not so in depth. Nevertheless, a fantastic job by F-16 and Bluesteel throughout the game.

The whole paranoid cop thing though destroyed us. And I called it and made a case for it! You know, I was going to go a quiet road, but people were so intent on lynching before I'd even claimed! FT had to intervene just so that I wasn't lynched before I got on! Town was like a bunch of baying hounds, and to be frank their overeagerness killed me, and by virtue of his intervention FT. Plus, my NP 1 kill failed so I had no janitored role.

Really, after both me and FT died the Mafia had very little hope. In hindsight we had a backup, but the Mafia still faced significant difficulties.

I'd analyse further, but to be frank I'd only be repeating what others have said. Mestari, this was a great game, far better than your previous ones, and I only wish I could have survived longer. Alas, I was right about the cop, but it didn't do a thing.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it