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How to lead as mafia

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/3/2012 6:18:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was discussing this topic with another member and will probably continue to do so but I also wanted a public opinion. Do you in general find it easier to lead as town than as mafia? For instance, do you think that your play in general allows you to take the lead as town but not as mafia? A few people I am very interested in hearing responses from: bluesteel, BlackVoid, FourTrouble, and Drafterman.

Besides FT who leads as mafia, almost all of these players are well-known for taking a leadership role and calling the shots when town. Case in point - Drafterman was taking the lead in Slaves of Time and I was merely following what he did. In Board Games as a significant example, BlackVoid was just following whatever I did since he was mafia and I was town. In Golden Garden for instance, where BlackVoid was town, and I, mafia, the dynamics worked the other way around with him taking the lead.

In my case, I almost invariably take the lead in the Day Phase and try to take control when town. As mafia, however, it is near impossible and mafia is always on the defensive. So, out of the experienced players, it is generally the case that whoever is town is the one that takes the lead. It doesn't even have to be a "confirmable" role since even scummy townies take the lead (me in Horror mafia for instance), but mafia rarely if ever succeed in taking control of the Day Phase (except FT who did so twice in Once upon a Time and The Mentalist).

So, what is your opinion on why active townies consistently take the initiative and call the shots in the day phases but the same players don't exert a similar level of control as mafia? In your personal experience, do you lead the town often or rarely?
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,771
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9/3/2012 7:33:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I personally enjoy leading as mafia a lot, although I think it requires a lot more work than leading as town. You got a pretty good insight to how I think as mafia in Slaves of Time: I try to predict who (and for what reasons) townies are going to FOS, and then I make sure to FOS those people before anyone else does. I think an example of this was when I told you to FOS Zaradi, predicting that in the next DP, bluesteel would lead a lynch on him. The point is to create the illusion of town-like thinking, and if you're saying what townies are thinking before they do, then they start to think you're town. This strategy works really well for leading as mafia, since you can buddy with the entire town without ever exposing the fact that you buddied. And you can always choose the right times to bus your teammates instead of letting townies take over.

I play very differently as town: my main priority becomes catching scum, and that makes leading a lot easier. It just doesn't take as much work to lead as town because you don't have to pretend to be town-like. Instead of trying to figure out how townies would react in certain situations, you can just... react. You can pressure people without thinking, even with bad reasons, and then just use that to scum-hunt. A townie's reactions will always be town-like, even when they're not pro-town, so it always feels like there are a lot more options open as town. I don't ever have to worry about appearing suspicious or about getting mislynched. That's the main difference between leading as town and leading as mafia - leading as town is natural, whereas leading as mafia is ALWAYS contrived. So that makes leading as town not just easier, but more of a natural reaction - good players wan to lead the town to victory if they're town, but they don't want to help town if they're mafia, so it makes more sense to take a less active role when they're mafia.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/3/2012 9:14:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think most people are less inclined to lead as mafia because if they lead a mislynch, and mafiosos know they are, they're the first ones to be blamed. And doubly so if the ML'd person comes in as a replacement.

Also, taking the leadership role generally includes being the one to instigate most of the pressures and FOS's. But most players have a tendency to OMGUS, which burns a bridge and can lead to you being FOS'd in return. So mafiosos seem to try to avoid that. And now that I think about it, thats another reason I think OMGUS is a dumb strategy; mafiosos usually support mislynches rather than initiate them (when its not LYLO).

Of course, now that I've said this, next time I'm mafia I'll have to FOS everybody under the sun.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/3/2012 9:50:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 6:18:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I was discussing this topic with another member and will probably continue to do so but I also wanted a public opinion. Do you in general find it easier to lead as town than as mafia? For instance, do you think that your play in general allows you to take the lead as town but not as mafia? A few people I am very interested in hearing responses from: bluesteel, BlackVoid, FourTrouble, and Drafterman.

Besides FT who leads as mafia, almost all of these players are well-known for taking a leadership role and calling the shots when town. Case in point - Drafterman was taking the lead in Slaves of Time and I was merely following what he did. In Board Games as a significant example, BlackVoid was just following whatever I did since he was mafia and I was town. In Golden Garden for instance, where BlackVoid was town, and I, mafia, the dynamics worked the other way around with him taking the lead.

In my case, I almost invariably take the lead in the Day Phase and try to take control when town. As mafia, however, it is near impossible and mafia is always on the defensive. So, out of the experienced players, it is generally the case that whoever is town is the one that takes the lead. It doesn't even have to be a "confirmable" role since even scummy townies take the lead (me in Horror mafia for instance), but mafia rarely if ever succeed in taking control of the Day Phase (except FT who did so twice in Once upon a Time and The Mentalist).

So, what is your opinion on why active townies consistently take the initiative and call the shots in the day phases but the same players don't exert a similar level of control as mafia? In your personal experience, do you lead the town often or rarely?

The best players are those that do the same as mafia and as town. And it is best for mafia to have some of them try to lead and some try to sit back (assuming that is their natural playing style).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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9/3/2012 9:59:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It depends. If there are good mislynch targets and no townies are going after those people, then it makes sense to lead. You can't be blamed for lynching someone who seemed scummy. Usually someone else will go after those people though.

But the easiest strategy is usually not to lead as mafia. It draws a lot of attention to you and being OMGUS'd isn't fun, especially since it often forces you to claim early. I found that as a townie, I used to have to claim in the first 4, since I was so aggressive in trying to lead. Which forced me to play the opposite as mafia, unless I wanted to keep having to risk getting cc'ed.

The newest best mafia strategy seems to be: make excuses about your activity level (that are usually rooted in reality) and have a really solid claim. People on this site tend to look at claims over behavior anyway, so it's easy to rely on your claim and lead from behind (feel the town out, figure who they are suspicious of, then be the impetus for that person's lynch with plenty of analysis).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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9/4/2012 1:28:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I hardly ever like to try and lead a DP. I may be adamant at times, but mainly I'll just let others do the work for me, dropping "clues" and "hints" to sway the person onto a mislynch, while they are still leading.

Leading caused people to go, "oh you caused a mislynch, you must be scum." which is utterly rediculous, that just assumes townies never make mistakes, which is false, yett it still happens.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
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"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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