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Elements Mafia DP1

Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/9/2012 12:51:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
2. Daytona
3. OneElephant
4. MA
5. FourTrouble
6. socialpinko
7. Zaradi
8. caveat
9. Buddamoose
10. royal
11. johnny

DP1 has started and the first victim is found. F-16, Nitrogen (townie) has been wiped from the periodic table. Scientists are stunned as to why most of our atmosphere just up and left. However, we are thankful that we do not need Nitrogen to breathe, but environmentalists are panicking about how the loss of nitrogen will effect plant life and ultimately our lives.

With ten players, it takes 6 votes to lynch. The DP will last 48 hours and will end Monday Night at 11 pm PST. At that time, the individual with the most votes will be lynched. If the town wants a no lynch, you much VTNL.

Begin.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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9/9/2012 12:55:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL MA

I think inactive players are a huge detriment to town, so unless MA has a particularly important element, say Hydrogen, Oxygen, or Carbon, then I say we just lynch him and get rid of that problem.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/9/2012 1:02:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL MA for a claim off of a) inactives need to claim early to avoid headaches in late game, and b) n00b rule.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/9/2012 1:06:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL MA

Inactive rule ftw
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FourTrouble
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9/9/2012 1:12:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
unvote VTL royal

I have a strong feeling royal and/or social is mafia, based on the fact F-16 died and on how the NP went down for me. MA's element is ultimately irrelevant at the moment, since we have enough information to pursue other leads. I think we should immediately put pressure on royal and social. It makes sense for both of them to claim first. If they have strong claims, then we can worry about inactives.
Zaradi
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9/9/2012 2:07:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:55:30 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
VTL MA

I think inactive players are a huge detriment to town, so unless MA has a particularly important element, say Hydrogen, Oxygen, or Carbon, then I say we just lynch him and get rid of that problem.

Major problem with this analysis:

1. If roles were randomized, then it's more likely than not that he is town (due to higher disparities between town numbers and mafia/scum numbers). Thus, just mislynching blindly because "He's inactive a lot" doesn't actually yield a beneficial outcome since a) he's still a townie vote, and b) he's still a townie number. Keeping townies alive is the point of being a townie in mafia, remember?

2. Even if roles were pre-assigned even to a slight degree, it's highly unlikely that a mod would give an inactive, newer player a chance as mafia as deadweight in the mafia causes more imbalance than deadweight in town. So it's still more likely that he's town. Refer to analysis posted above as to why we want to keep townies alive, regardless of activity.

All this does is virtually guarentees a mislynch with no real gain. One inactive townie can always be counterbalanced with more active townies or simply replacement (i.e. F-16 probably is itching to get back in this). Using inactivity for warrant to claim is fine. To lynch? ESPECIALLY DP1? No no no.You know better.
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Zaradi
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9/9/2012 2:08:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 1:12:19 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
unvote VTL royal

I have a strong feeling royal and/or social is mafia, based on the fact F-16 died and on how the NP went down for me. MA's element is ultimately irrelevant at the moment, since we have enough information to pursue other leads. I think we should immediately put pressure on royal and social. It makes sense for both of them to claim first. If they have strong claims, then we can worry about inactives.

Explain.
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FourTrouble
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9/9/2012 2:25:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
@Zaradi

You brought up a great point. If MA is town, then he will be replaced with F-16. We should thus treat MA as such. I have no intention of lynching him anymore. I don't even want his claim right now.

Since F-16 died NP1, we need to use the information that gives us to apply non-random pressure on people. Thus, the obvious question: who would kill F-16 on NP1? And the obvious answer - royal or social. They should be the first to claim. Do you disagree?
royalpaladin
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9/9/2012 5:14:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I completely disagree that social and I should have to claim first. Just because F_16 happened to die does not mean that either of us is in any way involved; plenty of other players could have killed him. In fact, why couldn't the Mafia have just killed F_16 so that social and I look guilty? I think it's suspicious that FT is using WIFOM to implicate me and social. He knows better than that.

Unvote

VTL FourTrouble
Buddamoose
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9/9/2012 9:58:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Royal you have used the exact sale argument against people. Why should arguments you use on others, be excluded from applying to you as well?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 10:09:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 9:58:29 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Royal you have used the exact sale argument against people. Why should arguments you use on others, be excluded from applying to you as well?

I have only used this argument against F_16, and I every time I have used it against him, I have been correct. Nobody else has a predictable killing pattern.

Check all of my previous games. I don't even think that I have ever killed F_16 first as Mafia, so even if you think using the patterns argument is valid, it doesn't even apply here. FT is misapplying the argument.
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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9/9/2012 10:13:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Interesting concept. I wonder if you'll get to use more than one role if more than one compound shares with you.

I'd rather have MA claim than Royal. VTL MA.
daytonanerd
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9/9/2012 10:14:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have just caught up on the DP. MA is iacotve, so naturally, I want a claim from him, but there are already 4 votes on him, so I don't want an accidental mislynch.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
OneElephant
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9/9/2012 10:19:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 10:14:49 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
I have just caught up on the DP. MA is iacotve, so naturally, I want a claim from him, but there are already 4 votes on him, so I don't want an accidental mislynch.

Technically there's three, I think.

Unofficial Vote Count:

Military Atheist (3/6): OneElephant, Buddamoose, Zaradi
RoyalPaladin (1/6): FourTrouble
FourTrouble (1/6): Royal Paladin
daytonanerd
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9/9/2012 10:20:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 10:19:24 AM, OneElephant wrote:
At 9/9/2012 10:14:49 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
I have just caught up on the DP. MA is iacotve, so naturally, I want a claim from him, but there are already 4 votes on him, so I don't want an accidental mislynch.

Technically there's three, I think.

Unofficial Vote Count:

Military Atheist (3/6): OneElephant, Buddamoose, Zaradi
RoyalPaladin (1/6): FourTrouble
FourTrouble (1/6): Royal Paladin

Oh right, I forgot that FT unvoted to vote for Royal. Alright.

VTL MA
#FeeltheFreezerBern
Buddamoose
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9/9/2012 10:41:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 10:09:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 9:58:29 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Royal you have used the exact sale argument against people. Why should arguments you use on others, be excluded from applying to you as well?

I have only used this argument against F_16, and I every time I have used it against him, I have been correct. Nobody else has a predictable killing pattern.

You have used it against LK as well, and Social. Alsooo,

Except of course that you have yourself admitted in games, you kill people you dislike. You dislike F-16, ergo...

Check all of my previous games. I don't even think that I have ever killed F_16 first as Mafia, so even if you think using the patterns argument is valid, it doesn't even apply here. FT is misapplying the argument.

And normally it wouldnt, except for what you have admitted yourself in previous games. Not even thinking about it from a "Royal killed F-16 because he is experienced". No, one can draw the same conclusion with a different line of reasoning.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 10:51:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 10:41:28 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 9/9/2012 10:09:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 9:58:29 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Royal you have used the exact sale argument against people. Why should arguments you use on others, be excluded from applying to you as well?

I have only used this argument against F_16, and I every time I have used it against him, I have been correct. Nobody else has a predictable killing pattern.

You have used it against LK as well, and Social. Alsooo,

Yeah, when I was Mafia and I was framing them.
Except of course that you have yourself admitted in games, you kill people you dislike. You dislike F-16, ergo...
Not only do I dislike a few other people, but I have never killed F_16 first in any game. I have disliked F_16 for about 6 months now, and since I have never killed him first in any game as Mafia, your reasoning is fallacious. Do you actually think I would tell you how I determine what my kills are?

Check all of my previous games. I don't even think that I have ever killed F_16 first as Mafia, so even if you think using the patterns argument is valid, it doesn't even apply here. FT is misapplying the argument.

And normally it wouldnt, except for what you have admitted yourself in previous games. Not even thinking about it from a "Royal killed F-16 because he is experienced". No, one can draw the same conclusion with a different line of reasoning.

If I do that, then why has F_16 not died first whenever I have been Mafia?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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9/9/2012 11:28:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, FT's reasoning for social and royal being scummy JUST BECAUSE F-16 died first is a really bum argument. The fact that he's experienced doesn't specifically point to either social or royal, but could implicate ANYONE in the game. The fact that he excludes it down to just those two is highly flawed. FT knows better than to make this silly little mistake.
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Buddamoose
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9/9/2012 11:38:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Royal, you make all solid points. Still, its something I'm keeping in mind for later. For now getting MA's claim is top priority to me. Afterwards Im a little torn as to what to do.

Inactive Rule would I suppose be Caveat as he has had a sting of relatively low activity. For personal reasons I know, but that doesnt change the situation any.

Noob: Daytonanerd

Hmmmm, I think Daytonanerd would be the best option here, followed by a VTNL.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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9/9/2012 11:47:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 11:38:54 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Royal, you make all solid points. Still, its something I'm keeping in mind for later. For now getting MA's claim is top priority to me. Afterwards Im a little torn as to what to do.

Inactive Rule would I suppose be Caveat as he has had a sting of relatively low activity. For personal reasons I know, but that doesnt change the situation any.

Noob: Daytonanerd

Hmmmm, I think Daytonanerd would be the best option here, followed by a VTNL.

Actually, it might not necessarily be a bad idea to mass claim at this point. I mean, few elements are objectively more valuable than the others and on top of that, it'll help us figure out which elements are probably mafia and who to bond with.

If you guys are okay with that, I'm willing to claim first.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 11:57:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No-lynching is a very bad idea at this point since there are only a few elements. This is a small game; it serves us better to lynch the scummiest person today.
daytonanerd
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9/9/2012 12:09:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 11:47:39 AM, OneElephant wrote:
At 9/9/2012 11:38:54 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Royal, you make all solid points. Still, its something I'm keeping in mind for later. For now getting MA's claim is top priority to me. Afterwards Im a little torn as to what to do.

Inactive Rule would I suppose be Caveat as he has had a sting of relatively low activity. For personal reasons I know, but that doesnt change the situation any.

Noob: Daytonanerd

Hmmmm, I think Daytonanerd would be the best option here, followed by a VTNL.

Actually, it might not necessarily be a bad idea to mass claim at this point. I mean, few elements are objectively more valuable than the others and on top of that, it'll help us figure out which elements are probably mafia and who to bond with.

If you guys are okay with that, I'm willing to claim first.

I don't think it is a good idea to out all of the roles today, right on DP1. Mafia will be able to kill off an important element like Oxygen or Hydrogen. We need to give it time. Maybe DP2 or DP3 would be better, if we have to.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
Zaradi
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9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 12:24:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.

It's not a good idea in this case. We have a few chronic inactives who will make this game die. Getting rid of them now helps the town by allowing us to focus on scummy people. Military ought to be lynched this Day Phase.
Zaradi
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9/9/2012 12:37:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:24:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.

It's not a good idea in this case. We have a few chronic inactives who will make this game die. Getting rid of them now helps the town by allowing us to focus on scummy people. Military ought to be lynched this Day Phase.

Refer to the reasons I told FT that his plan to lynch MA was a bad idea. At best, inactivity is only good for a reason to claim. Nothing more.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 12:54:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:37:22 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:24:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.

It's not a good idea in this case. We have a few chronic inactives who will make this game die. Getting rid of them now helps the town by allowing us to focus on scummy people. Military ought to be lynched this Day Phase.

Refer to the reasons I told FT that his plan to lynch MA was a bad idea. At best, inactivity is only good for a reason to claim. Nothing more.

Ore_Ele does not randomize roles, and I see no reason to have MA replaced.
Zaradi
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9/9/2012 12:57:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:54:12 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:37:22 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:24:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.

It's not a good idea in this case. We have a few chronic inactives who will make this game die. Getting rid of them now helps the town by allowing us to focus on scummy people. Military ought to be lynched this Day Phase.

Refer to the reasons I told FT that his plan to lynch MA was a bad idea. At best, inactivity is only good for a reason to claim. Nothing more.

Ore_Ele does not randomize roles, and I see no reason to have MA replaced.

When did I ever advocate MA being replaced? My argument for selected roles was there would be no reason to give an inactive n00b a role in the mafia, as an inactive in the mafia causes more imbalance than an inactive in the town. Thus, he's most likely town.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/9/2012 1:00:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 12:57:45 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:54:12 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:37:22 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:24:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/9/2012 12:15:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I don't think lynching this DP is a very strong idea. Even with the smaller amount of players in the game, mafia is still probably only about 3-4 strong (3 guaranteed if there's a TP), which means we still have plenty of wiggle room to get claims and VTNL DP1. There's no need to get hasty. We can get a few claims from people and then VTNL. SOP for the win.

It's not a good idea in this case. We have a few chronic inactives who will make this game die. Getting rid of them now helps the town by allowing us to focus on scummy people. Military ought to be lynched this Day Phase.

Refer to the reasons I told FT that his plan to lynch MA was a bad idea. At best, inactivity is only good for a reason to claim. Nothing more.

Ore_Ele does not randomize roles, and I see no reason to have MA replaced.

When did I ever advocate MA being replaced? My argument for selected roles was there would be no reason to give an inactive n00b a role in the mafia, as an inactive in the mafia causes more imbalance than an inactive in the town. Thus, he's most likely town.

You don't know what Ore_Ele did. I say we lynch the fool.