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Philosophers Mafia Dp3

socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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9/19/2012 5:06:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM, socialpinko wrote:
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU ROTTEN KIDS!
#FeeltheFreezerBern
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/19/2012 5:08:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Dead

1) Daytona (1) - _____________ - _________________ - __________
2) Daytona (2)/Royal - Descartes - Godfather + 1X Ninja/Janitor - MAFIA
3) Fourtrouble(1) - Ludwig Wittgenstein - 2X Lie Detector - TOWN

Role Claims

1) Budda - John Locke - Cop
2) Zaradi - Karl Marx - Miller
3) Sports - Aristotle - Investigative JOAT (Rolecop, cop, watcher)

Character Claims

4) FT(2) /Ishall - Epicurus
5) LK - Diogenes
6) F-16 - Jeremy Bentham
7) Koopin - Socrates
8) Johnny - David Hume
9) DNinja - Thales
10) Maxx - Peter Singer

Results:

1) FT(1)
NP1: ?????

2) Budda
NP1: Innocent on F-16
NP2: ?????

3) SportsGuru
NP1: Role-copped FT1? as a 2X LD.
NP2: ?????
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/19/2012 5:19:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 5:06:48 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM, socialpinko wrote:
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU ROTTEN KIDS!

No, you didn't get away with it because you said that you checked F_16. You should have claimed that you checked Zaradi or checked your/mine "IWWTT" statement (for flavor-checking). I always check myself first whenever I have an investigative role.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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9/19/2012 5:21:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 5:19:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:06:48 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM, socialpinko wrote:
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU ROTTEN KIDS!

No, you didn't get away with it because you said that you checked F_16. You should have claimed that you checked Zaradi or checked your/mine "IWWTT" statement (for flavor-checking). I always check myself first whenever I have an investigative role.

Well, maybe you shouldn't have let your emotions get ahead of you and not have called out F-16 as the godfather.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/19/2012 5:25:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, so last DP was quite unfortunate. No idea why FT fake-claimed. I believe the fake-claim didn't match with the others based on Budda's research so we pushed for a role-claim. Maxx gave FT one post to claim, after which he hammered. FT may or may not have seen Maxx's post and Maxx may or may not have seen Zaradi's subsequent post telling him not to hammer until we discuss it. FT may have role-claimed as he said at the end that the hammer happenned too quickly. Anyways, I'll chalk down the mislynch last DP to an accident.

Now, if we look at the Drafterlist above, with 13 total players, I am thinking it is likely 3 mafia and maybe 3 mafia and a 3rd party although 4 isn't out of the question. Of the 10 remaining players, Budda, Zaradi, me, and Sports are pretty much confirmed although it is not 100%. Budda could be using the janitored role, I could have been lawyered even if the GF is dead, Zaradi could have gambited a miller fake-claim and SG could be the mafia role cop. But for all practical purposes, I am thinking the last 2-3 mafiosos exist in the pool of the remaining 6 players.

A couple of things we should get though:

1) Budda, can you post updated analysis on characters? So, far, your analysis seems to be dead on as far as spotting fake-claims goes.

Also, who did you investigate last night?

2) FT, can you tell us who you Lie Detected in your old role as a 2X Lie Detector?

Let's look at the remaining 6 players:

Maxx - hammered FT, gave a hint about his role
FT(2) - replaced IShall, usually indicative of town
Koopin - most likely 3rd party according to Budda's research on his character unless I am mistaken
DNinja - No read yet, although he did vote FT as opposed to Daytona
Johnny - No read yet
Knukle - Barely active, hasn't been replaced, (unless he was active somewhere and I missed it).

Right now, we can wait to hear from Budda and FT's investigation results and eliminate two people from suspicion. Unless one of them had checked LK, I suggest starting with him and maybe going for DNinja or Maxx. But I'll hold off on voting until we have the results. That way, we won't pressure anyone who is town into revealing their role.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/19/2012 5:35:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. MiG (replaced Lk)
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

Totes forgot about that.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/19/2012 5:49:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 5:21:26 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:19:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:06:48 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM, socialpinko wrote:
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU ROTTEN KIDS!

No, you didn't get away with it because you said that you checked F_16. You should have claimed that you checked Zaradi or checked your/mine "IWWTT" statement (for flavor-checking). I always check myself first whenever I have an investigative role.

Well, maybe you shouldn't have let your emotions get ahead of you and not have called out F-16 as the godfather.

I didn't. I said that he could be the godfather. I never said that I investigated him; you did. You are responsible for being lynched.
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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9/19/2012 5:55:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, let's look at the results of the night.

Before anyone asks, my action did not go through; I am presuming role blocking.

Regarding FT....um yeah. You have NO IDEA how many times I was banging my head against the wall last day phase. On the bright side, I no longer need to repaint it if I like red, so that's nice, I guess. Yes he was the one I investigated on the 1st night phase.

Concerning the 2nd night phase, well it seems we have some shenanigans going on. Now, it at least doesn't seem like the mafia made a kill, as it would be unwise to kill their own godfather. Even if his lynch was inevitable, better to make the town waste a day to lynch him rather than kill him yourself. Which would mean we have a vig.

However, that means we either have a mafia that can't kill, which seems severly underpowered, or a mafia that CAN kill but only did so on night one, and a vig that can kill, but only has done so on night 2.

There are a couple explanations of course. The simplest of course is the mafia killer and the doctor chose the same person on night 2, though a bit unlikely statistically speaking. However, this would require a roleblocker to block the vig on night 1, which considering being blocked myself, seems possible, though I question the decision of not blocking the one role who can kill mafia at night.

The other explanation, although more unlikely, is that we have a town role blocker and he/she stumbled onto blocking the mafia killer, in which case good work keep it up
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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9/19/2012 5:56:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 5:49:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:21:26 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:19:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/19/2012 5:06:48 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 9/19/2012 4:59:17 PM, socialpinko wrote:
==Living Players==

1. F-17
2. Zaradi
3. Koopin
4. Buddamoose
5. SportsGuru
6. Lk
7. Maxx
8. Fourtrouble2 (replaced Ishall)
9. Johnnyboy
10. Dninja

==Dead Players==

1. Daytonanerd- _______

2. Fourtrouble- You are Ludwig Wittgenstein. You were a highly influential philosopher in such diverse philosophical fields as language, mind, and logic. You're known chiefly though for your contribution to the philosophical analysis of language. You are the 2x lie detector. Two times over the course of the game you may choose a true/false statement from the Dp and analyze whether it's the truth or a lie. You win with the town.

3. Daytona (replaced Royal)- You are Descartes. Many see you as the founder of modern Western philosophy with your famous 'cogito ergo sum' line being thought of as a revolutionary approach to philosophical thought. However, philosophers like St. Augustine and Aristotle clearly formulated such a proposition hundreds of years before you were born. The fact that you have gotten away with calling the idea your own makes you the Godfather. You show up innocent upon investigation. You are also a 1x ninja + janitor. You may kill someone and keep their information from appearing at the beginning of the Dp so as to steal their role. You win with the mafia.

===
6 votes to lynch
===

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU ROTTEN KIDS!

No, you didn't get away with it because you said that you checked F_16. You should have claimed that you checked Zaradi or checked your/mine "IWWTT" statement (for flavor-checking). I always check myself first whenever I have an investigative role.

Well, maybe you shouldn't have let your emotions get ahead of you and not have called out F-16 as the godfather.

I didn't. I said that he could be the godfather. I never said that I investigated him; you did. You are responsible for being lynched.

I wasn't lynched. FT was lynched. I somehow got killed in the night.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/19/2012 6:02:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Dead

1) Daytona (1) - _____________ - _________________ - __________
2) Daytona (2)/Royal - Descartes - Godfather + 1X Ninja/Janitor - MAFIA
3) Fourtrouble(1) - Ludwig Wittgenstein - 2X Lie Detector - TOWN

Role Claims

1) Budda - John Locke - Cop
2) Zaradi - Karl Marx - Miller
3) Sports - Aristotle - Investigative JOAT (Rolecop, cop, watcher)

Character Claims

4) FT(2) /Ishall - Epicurus
5) MIG /LK - Diogenes
6) F-16 - Jeremy Bentham
7) Koopin - Socrates
8) Johnny - David Hume
9) DNinja - Thales
10) Maxx - Peter Singer

Results:

1) FT(1)
NP1: ?????

2) Budda
NP1: Innocent on F-16
NP2: ?????

3) SportsGuru
NP1: Role-copped FT1? as a 2X LD.
NP2: (Roleblocked)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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9/19/2012 6:36:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 6:08:47 PM, SportsGuru wrote:
also, maybe I missed it, can we get a reason from Zaradi as to why Marx is the miller?

Already explained it. Even though I contributed to various things like the human mind and philosophy of history (not exactly sure if that's entirely correct, just pulling from memory of my role PM), my name brings up images of brutal communist regimes, thus making me miller.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/19/2012 6:57:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL F-16 and here is why:

I investigated him innocent

Yet for some reason, daytona, who was the GF, i investigated guilty. These results can only mean 1 thing from my perspective. I am an insane cop(no idea why) and F-16 is actually guilty.

Unless someone has an alternate theory which I find unlikely.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/19/2012 7:10:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll have an updated character analysis posted later. For now, I think we should all discuss the different possibilities in regards to F-16. Anyways, back to work
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/19/2012 7:11:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow nvm unvote, social just told me that the guilty on Daytona was a mistake. Back to square 1 XD
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
maxx233
Posts: 498
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9/19/2012 7:19:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Man, interesting start to the dp. Let me state right now that I will indeed full claim if pressured to, but that pressure's gonna have to be pretty hot. I would probably be pushing for my own claim if I were one of you ;) but it will ruin my plan and my effectiveness if I claim, so thus the pressure should be pretty real is all.

Buddas findings are intriguing, I'm thinking on that. Now that we know there definitely wasn't a full time ld Budda is for sure confirmed, right? F16s only confirmation so far had been from Budda?
maxx233
Posts: 498
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9/19/2012 7:26:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 7:11:48 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Wow nvm unvote, social just told me that the guilty on Daytona was a mistake. Back to square 1 XD

Lol, that makes things easier, if not a bit less interesting. So yeah... Budda and f16 are pretty much 100 % confirmed then still at least

This darn phone takes so long to post from :/
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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9/19/2012 7:30:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
ok, based on the plato vs aristotle theory, it seems we should go after either lk, johnnyboy or zaradi; the former 2 because they aren't explicitly pro-aristotle, and while we could go after zaradi, we can't do much more at this point than lynch because we don't believe his miller claim.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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9/19/2012 7:44:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 7:30:28 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Zaradi, you are only the miller, right? You don't have any other abilities?

Only the miller. Why do you ask?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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9/19/2012 7:55:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 7:44:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:30:28 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Zaradi, you are only the miller, right? You don't have any other abilities?

Only the miller. Why do you ask?

Just wanted to get as much info as possible. I don't want a mafioso slipping by on a miller fake-claim.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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9/19/2012 8:08:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 7:55:23 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:44:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:30:28 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Zaradi, you are only the miller, right? You don't have any other abilities?

Only the miller. Why do you ask?

Just wanted to get as much info as possible. I don't want a mafioso slipping by on a miller fake-claim.

And what, you thought he would claim to be a miller with powers?
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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9/19/2012 8:12:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 8:08:30 PM, SportsGuru wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:55:23 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:44:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/19/2012 7:30:28 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Zaradi, you are only the miller, right? You don't have any other abilities?

Only the miller. Why do you ask?

Just wanted to get as much info as possible. I don't want a mafioso slipping by on a miller fake-claim.

And what, you thought he would claim to be a miller with powers?

Seen it happen before. A mafioso may claim miller and claim to have a power so town won't autolynch or vig him.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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9/19/2012 8:45:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I checked F-16 on NP1. I wanted to make sure he was town, since his analysis is the most valuable in the game.

Anyway, there is probably a third-party (social tends to include them) and 2-3 mafia left. The mafia is probably maxx, DNinja, or LK, and third-party is probably Koopin. I say we get role-claims from them, and go from there.

I imagine Zaradi and Budda will come on and want to do the opposite of whatever I suggest. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the rest of the town doesn't derp out again.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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9/19/2012 8:51:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 8:45:16 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
I checked F-16 on NP1. I wanted to make sure he was town, since his analysis is the most valuable in the game.

Anyway, there is probably a third-party (social tends to include them) and 2-3 mafia left. The mafia is probably maxx, DNinja, or LK, and third-party is probably Koopin. I say we get role-claims from them, and go from there.

I imagine Zaradi and Budda will come on and want to do the opposite of whatever I suggest. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the rest of the town doesn't derp out again.

Lol, nice one. I agree with all.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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9/19/2012 8:58:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 8:45:16 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
I checked F-16 on NP1. I wanted to make sure he was town, since his analysis is the most valuable in the game.

Anyway, there is probably a third-party (social tends to include them) and 2-3 mafia left. The mafia is probably maxx, DNinja, or LK, and third-party is probably Koopin. I say we get role-claims from them, and go from there.

I imagine Zaradi and Budda will come on and want to do the opposite of whatever I suggest. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the rest of the town doesn't derp out again.

Actually based on his role-claim, I believe koopin is a very specific townie role, which hopefully the mafia hasn't figured out yet
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/19/2012 8:59:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ludwig Wittgenstein throws a wrench in my plato v aristotle theory though. Wittgenstein and even most of his influences had no connection to plato, aristotle and the like.

He dealt chiefly with the philosophies of math, science, and language. Aristotle was at a base level, the foundation of empiricism, with materialism. But the connection between wittgenstein and aristotle is tenuous at best.

My honest opinion is this theory should be scrapped, wittgenstien indicates this isnt a materialism v realism game.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion