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Is Mafia Dead?

royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/29/2012 8:05:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What happened? Why isn't anybody running any games?

I blame BlackVoid. The moment he returned, Mafia collapsed :p (Kidding ;) )
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/29/2012 8:10:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 8:05:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
What happened? Why isn't anybody running any games?

I blame BlackVoid. The moment he returned, Mafia collapsed :p (Kidding ;) )

You don't have to lie and say you're kidding. Its true. F-16 will tell you that I've been planning to kill the games forum for a long time. lmao.

On a serious note, most players that used to be active aren't playing anymore. Examples: Drafter, M. Torres, LDF, Blue, TUF, Tulle, Medic (though he's coming back), and me until recently. 3 of them seem to have gotten burnt out on the game and the others apparently had real life show up.

As for no games running right now, the aforementioned issue has hurt Daytona's game, Logic has signups filled but had to delay, and FT has yet to clarify if he's continuing his game.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/29/2012 9:00:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 8:10:48 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 9/29/2012 8:05:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
What happened? Why isn't anybody running any games?

I blame BlackVoid. The moment he returned, Mafia collapsed :p (Kidding ;) )

You don't have to lie and say you're kidding. Its true. F-16 will tell you that I've been planning to kill the games forum for a long time. lmao.

On a serious note, most players that used to be active aren't playing anymore. Examples: Drafter, M. Torres, LDF, Blue, TUF, Tulle, Medic (though he's coming back), and me until recently. 3 of them seem to have gotten burnt out on the game and the others apparently had real life show up.

As for no games running right now, the aforementioned issue has hurt Daytona's game, Logic has signups filled but had to delay, and FT has yet to clarify if he's continuing his game.

I have a hard time thinking it's due to there not being enough players. Me, F-539, Daytona, Budda, Johnny, Sportsguru (though he only recently returned), Royal, Mestari, Maxx, etc. are all rather active players. And LDF, Torres, Tulle, and Blue have all been gone for a good while but mafia just now slowed to a tune. I think it's just that Logic hasn't started his game yet juxtaposed with some unique conditions with Daytona's game (he's a first-time mod and he banned someone from his game which resulted in some slowing of the signup process). Once Logic starts everything should return to normal.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/29/2012 10:53:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

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"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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9/29/2012 10:57:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've noticed this aswell.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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9/30/2012 2:55:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is just enough players of reasonable quality to run a half decent game at the moment. If we lost another 2 or 3 players though I fear the situation would be closer to terminal, with the quality lowering.

Trust me, it's not a lack of interest for many former players, it's a lack of time. I've had many responses to my invitations expressing a great desire to play Mafia, but lacking the time. We all know TUF is leaving, but others like Xerge, Blue and Andromeda all are also a bit too busy. A great shame as well.

Mafia isn't dead, but we need to be a little careful currently to not lose more players.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/30/2012 5:05:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
More likely it's just a lull and a lack of new players coming in; are newb games still being ran?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
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Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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9/30/2012 9:22:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer: The sudden combination of several factors has caused mafia activity to decline. They include common school-time hiatuses, the lack of active new players, and the lack of interesting games being modded. I also am aware that for some players, including myself, the re-emergence of OMGUS flame wars, the increasingly tendency to sheep rather than post in-depth analysis, and the sudden regress into results-only play styles has caused an extreme distaste for mafia at the moment.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/30/2012 11:31:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with what everyone said so far. The main reason for the decline/death of mafia would be:

1) The loss of many good players (LDF, Drafterman, TUF, Medic, bluesteel, Xerge, Airmax, Tulle, tvellalott, Ore_Ele, bossyburrito, HCP, Viper-King, PartamRuhem and a few others.

2) Lack of real noobs - the beginner games contain almost no real noobs in the games but rather just experienced players pretending to be noobs (just kidding).

3) The flame wars and grudges.

4) Most people are back to school/college.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/30/2012 11:32:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 5:05:09 AM, tvellalott wrote:
More likely it's just a lull and a lack of new players coming in; are newb games still being ran?

No, TV. It is awesome people like you disappearing that killed mafia on the site. You need to come back.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/30/2012 3:07:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
One thing that played a pretty big role in me losing interest is the complexity of the games themselves just became too much. There was no real rhyme or reason for anything. The roles varied from mod to mod, mechanics were a huge issue, etc. It was like every mod was trying to outdo the last in how complex they could make the game and it really had an impact on play. Basically it became the mod trying to see how many ways they could trick the players and that just got old quickly. I like a bit of complexity but there needs to be some standards. Playing mafia shouldn't be as taxing as writing a doctoral thesis. Most people don't want to devote that much time to a game. I think we actually ruined the game by taking it too far.

As for the noob games, I think we made a mistake by letting noobs train the noobs, and no one did any recruiting to try and bring in any new noobs.

Just my humble opinion.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/30/2012 3:16:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 3:07:25 PM, medic0506 wrote:
One thing that played a pretty big role in me losing interest is the complexity of the games themselves just became too much. There was no real rhyme or reason for anything. The roles varied from mod to mod, mechanics were a huge issue, etc. It was like every mod was trying to outdo the last in how complex they could make the game and it really had an impact on play. Basically it became the mod trying to see how many ways they could trick the players and that just got old quickly. I like a bit of complexity but there needs to be some standards. Playing mafia shouldn't be as taxing as writing a doctoral thesis. Most people don't want to devote that much time to a game. I think we actually ruined the game by taking it too far.

This is somewhat of a tricky thing. I try to keep my games really simple. I don't know if you agree or not.

I think a bigger issue is that many mods make games too pro-town - Budda's electronics game and Spinko's philosophers game speaks to that. Too many power roles make it nearly impossible for the mafia to win since town is supposed to catch mafia based on behavior.

The win in philosophers wasn't really fulfilling to me. It seemed like a cakewalk as if the game was designed for us to win from the start.

Similarly, the mason recruiting me in Slaves of Time and in Electronic devices and dying since I was mafia in both was fairly annoying. Mason recruiters are so overpowered. Even if you play pro-town, they might recruit you to confirm you and that gives you away. The number of investigators seriously needs to be cut down.

What would your ideal game be like, Medic? What have your favorite games been so far? I'd actually like to take advice into consideration for my next game. If I run it, it is going to be a really simple 9 player game with mostly vanilla townies.

As for the noob games, I think we made a mistake by letting noobs train the noobs, and no one did any recruiting to try and bring in any new noobs.

Just my humble opinion.

The real problem is that they haven't recruited anyone. It is just the same group of people playing noob games over and over again. But that is their perogative.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/30/2012 3:23:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 3:16:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

The win in philosophers wasn't really fulfilling to me. It seemed like a cakewalk as if the game was designed for us to win from the start.

I don't mean to do that. But I'm pretty confident that Philosophers (2) will be better. I've already calibrated the roles and characters and think it's very well balanced. Too bad I won't be able to host for three months since nobody's playing.

But to be honest, this happened site wide last year when school was beginning to start for people. Popular members disappeared because they didn't have the time and people even said the site was dead. But it was cyclical and I think the same is probably true of this.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/30/2012 4:01:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 3:23:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/30/2012 3:16:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

The win in philosophers wasn't really fulfilling to me. It seemed like a cakewalk as if the game was designed for us to win from the start.

I don't mean to do that. But I'm pretty confident that Philosophers (2) will be better. I've already calibrated the roles and characters and think it's very well balanced. Too bad I won't be able to host for three months since nobody's playing.

But to be honest, this happened site wide last year when school was beginning to start for people. Popular members disappeared because they didn't have the time and people even said the site was dead. But it was cyclical and I think the same is probably true of this.

Yeah, I know it was probably not your intention. I guess part of it was luck too.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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9/30/2012 4:11:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As said yesterday by me, Mafia is not dead.

For instance, under F-16's 'the loss of many good players' ... I have some of them in my game.

All that said, I am being constrained by many factors, which reaffirms the difficulty currently in place. My game is undergoing a massive redesign to cope with 13 or so players, and also the fact that the old game, while brilliant and somewhat a la Death in Mystere, had a luck factor inbuilt into anti-town kill targets...

Social is also right to attribute part of this to cyclical factors.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/30/2012 4:38:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 11:32:08 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/30/2012 5:05:09 AM, tvellalott wrote:
More likely it's just a lull and a lack of new players coming in; are newb games still being ran?

No, TV. It is awesome people like you disappearing that killed mafia on the site. You need to come back.

Maybe over Christmas.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/30/2012 5:15:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"What would your ideal game be like, Medic? What have your favorite games been so far? I'd actually like to take advice into consideration for my next game. If I run it, it is going to be a really simple 9 player game with mostly vanilla townies."

My ideal game would be something mob-flavored because I really like that genre. It would prolly be similar to the mobwars games that I did, but I'd remove some of the silly things I did like adding players mid-game, the supercop that could get past all protections once someone had been investigated by a normal cop, rotating vig that couldn't claim vig, etc. I think some of those things I was experimenting with actually ruined what would have been very competitive games.

The only thing that you did that I didn't like, and this is just a difference in preference, you like the mafia usurper and I hate it, for obvious reasons...lol. I liked the game you did where I was the unknown mafioso, I think it was cartoon superheros.

Some of my favorite games were actually kind of complex. Dexter, The Thing, Golden Garden, etc. I liked a Crack in Time, Frere Jacque and OT mafia but they weren't that complex, just competitive. There were alot more that I liked I just can't think of them right now.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/30/2012 9:19:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 5:17:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I never used a mafia usurper. Were you referring to TV?

Yeah, brain fart, those were TV's games. I never lasted long enough in your games to know if they were too complex...lol
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/30/2012 9:22:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 5:27:53 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
He;s talking about MQMQM where he was the usurper but got killed before he could even post in the game. lol.

Yeah I made, what, 2 posts in the mafia pm before you shot me (or was it Airmax??). It was like 10 minutes after the game started. :(
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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10/1/2012 1:37:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:22:53 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/30/2012 5:27:53 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
He;s talking about MQMQM where he was the usurper but got killed before he could even post in the game. lol.

Yeah I made, what, 2 posts in the mafia pm before you shot me (or was it Airmax??). It was like 10 minutes after the game started. :(

Yeah, sorry Medic, that was me... Your fake Godfather quote incriminated you more as the usurper than your actual game quote ever would have. I probably would have been willing to work out a deal and not kill you, so long as you were willing to not kill the mafia godfather. But my role PM specifically said I couldn't even mention there was a usurper... I suppose I could have waited though, but you're obviously a clever player and I didn't want to risk it... Mestari's other game where you recruited me into the cult comes to mind :P
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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/1/2012 4:37:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 11:31:14 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I agree with what everyone said so far. The main reason for the decline/death of mafia would be:

1) The loss of many good players (LDF, Drafterman, TUF, Medic, bluesteel, Xerge, Airmax, Tulle, tvellalott, Ore_Ele, bossyburrito, HCP, Viper-King, PartamRuhem and a few others.
Did you just call me a good player?

2) Lack of real noobs - the beginner games contain almost no real noobs in the games but rather just experienced players pretending to be noobs (just kidding).

3) The flame wars and grudges.

4) Most people are back to school/college.
This seems to be the hardest-hitting factor.
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johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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10/3/2012 1:31:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/3/2012 9:57:57 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
Where are these Noob games?

You should PM Viper_King about the beginner games. If you want any help learning how to play, PM me and I will give you the basics.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.