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EpicDDO - Day 1

drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/24/2012 11:12:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you haven't, please read the Introduction Thread:

http://debate.org...

The first post is the most important. Direct any questions to me in your role PMs.

Rules:
1. Copying and Pasting your Role PM will be allowed because all role information is already Public Knowledge. To wit, all of your role PMs are simply Cut and Paste from the introduction thread.

2. Day Phases and Night Phases will each last 36 hours. However, there will also be a "Twilight" phase at the end of each Day Phase. This phase is to allow roles with end-of-day actions to submit their actions (ex. Governor, Hunter). I include this phase regardless of the existence of those roles, so you cannot infer their existence from the inclusion of the phase. The Twilight phase will last 12 hours. This means, technically, you have 48 hours between Day Phases.

3. I will extend Day Phases under certain circumstances. Basically, if a significant number of people (>= 25%) are actively participating, I will allow the Day Phase to continue so long as the activity remains. The activity must remain and must be more than an ongoing flame war or simply biding time for other people to get online.

4. Any phase that would normally end during Friday, Saturday, or Sunday will have its length increased by 12 hours.

5. I encourage everyone to submit Day/Twilight/Night actions promptly and ahead of time. You are free to change it if you like, but this helps the day move faster.

6. You will be replaced if: You do not participate in Two Day Phases (any two, not just consecutive ones). You do not particiate in a Day-Night cycle. I'll certainly give exceptions for short Day Phases or if you have no Night action, but there will be no exceptions in the event of time limits reached.

7. Let's keep this civil. I will not abide drawn out and pointless flame wars. I will issue individualized warnings, then start issuing punishments (automatic forfeiture of role, replacement, etc.)

Reminder:

This is a semi-open setup. There are:
7 Townies
3 Mafia
2 Third Parties

At the beginning of the game, there can be only 1 of each role. This may change (through recruitments and other abilities) or otherwise be obfuscated by roles that appear as other roles (ex: Miller appears as Vanilla to who has it).

Joint Wins are possible.

----

MilitaryAtheist died in the Night.

Cop - Town. May visit one person every night. Will learn their affiliation (as of the beginning of that Night Phase). Third Parties investigate as innocent.

----

Living Players
1. caveat
2. medic
3. johnny (Blackvoid)
4. socialpinko
5. FourTrouble
6. F-16
7. HCP
8. Mestari
9. Budda
10. Logic
11. IFLY

With 11 players, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
This Day Phase will end no later than 11PM on 10/25, DDO Time.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 11:38:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow, cop dies right away. Isnt that just terrific(note the sarcasm). Anyways, seeing as MA was truly the only "noob" among us. We're left with garnering an inactives claim. The top three in this game to me would be:

1) Caveat
2) Medic
3) HcP

HcP and Caveat most of all with Medic as a tertiary inactive. Havent paid much attention to the other game Caveat's in tho(Quaint town I believe) since DP1, so I'm not sure how active he has been in that game. HcP hasnt been in a game in a lil bit, so he seems as good a place to start as any.

VTL HcP

As for the NK. Seems odd MA died, and if I was force to pick someone based off of the NK, I would pick Social. In previous games as mafia with him he purposely avoids killing more experienced players, out of fear of being FOS'd for it. In fact in Celebrities mafia he was vehemently against killing Royal NP2(as we ended up doing) and would have preferred killing chicken(a noob).

So as weak as the reasoning may be, its better than the nothing we have at this point. After HcP's claim, I definitely wouldnt mind getting Socials(refer to previous paragraph as to why.)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/24/2012 11:40:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Medic, withdrew, and Maxx took his place.

Living Players
1. caveat
2. Maxx
3. johnny (Blackvoid)
4. socialpinko
5. FourTrouble
6. F-16
7. HCP
8. Mestari
9. Budda
10. Logic
11. IFLY
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 11:43:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, recalling back to a statement drafter made awhile ago in reference to this set-up he created. I believe it was in a thread discussing Third Parties. Drafter specifically stated, if I'm recalling correctly, that a Jester was included in the game itself. So we need to watch out for that
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 11:47:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:43:53 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Also, recalling back to a statement drafter made awhile ago in reference to this set-up he created. I believe it was in a thread discussing Third Parties. Drafter specifically stated, if I'm recalling correctly, that a Jester was included in the game itself. So we need to watch out for that

InB4: Jester wins dont count

According to Drafter they do(reference same TP discussion thread I believe). If the Jester is lynched in this game, and I 100% think there is thanks to Drafter's posts weeks(maybe months ago) that there is, the game will end with the Jester win. So again, we need to be cautious. I'm certain if there is a jester, there will be a vig also, as thats generally how it goes on Epic.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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10/24/2012 11:48:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Unvote VTL Budda

The vote on HCP doesn't make much sense given the analysis of social... F-16 calls this a cognitive dissonance.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 11:55:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:48:13 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Unvote VTL Budda

The vote on HCP doesn't make much sense given the analysis of social... F-16 calls this a cognitive dissonance.

"Cognitive dissonance is the term used in modern psychology to describe the state of holding two or more conflicting cognitions (e.g., ideas, beliefs, values, emotional reactions) simultaneously"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Please explain to me how my actions/posts personify two conflicting cognitions(thoughts). The reasoning for wanting HcP's claim, is distinct and not at all in conflict with my reasoning for wanting Socials claim as well. Now I cant vote two people at once, else I would, so I have to choose one to go with first. I will always pick inactives first, because inactivity bothers me.

So please again, explain how my post is anything at all lime cognitive dissonance. on another note, you might want to actually look up the definitions to terms you use next time.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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10/24/2012 12:07:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:38:26 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Wow, cop dies right away. Isnt that just terrific(note the sarcasm). Anyways, seeing as MA was truly the only "noob" among us. We're left with garnering an inactives claim. The top three in this game to me would be:

1) Caveat
2) Medic
3) HcP

I agree with this reasoning. I would take Medic off the list as he was the second most active person in Logic's game(behind me). I think the last game I played with HcP in was beginners game where I distinctly remember his inactivity annoying me. Caveat has also become very inactive in the past few games, although he was mafia, so Idk.

VTL HCP.
:
HcP and Caveat most of all with Medic as a tertiary inactive. Havent paid much attention to the other game Caveat's in tho(Quaint town I believe) since DP1, so I'm not sure how active he has been in that game. HcP hasnt been in a game in a lil bit, so he seems as good a place to start as any.

VTL HcP

As for the NK. Seems odd MA died, and if I was force to pick someone based off of the NK, I would pick Social. In previous games as mafia with him he purposely avoids killing more experienced players, out of fear of being FOS'd for it. In fact in Celebrities mafia he was vehemently against killing Royal NP2(as we ended up doing) and would have preferred killing chicken(a noob).

I detest player psych. It really pissed me off in Dictators mafia where FT used player psych to say I was mafia. For all we know, you could have killed MA to use this exact reasoning to get an experienced player to claim.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 12:12:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@IFLY- that is true, hence my "if I had to choose based off the Nk." I even realize its rather weak reasoning, but as of now, its about the best we have. In this game, the way I see it, we wont be able to analyze characters/role PM's, so it leaves the game being based purely on behavior in regards to catching scum.

Especially considering the cop is dead, we now have no choive but to analyze every little scrap of evidence, and NK's would be a part of that. I most certainly understand where your disagreeance is coming from, but ai implore you to rethink that, just in regards to this game and the situation we find ourselves in.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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10/24/2012 12:21:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If the reasoning based on the NK is the best we have, why the vote on HCP? You're already getting overly-defensive regarding some words - cognitive dissonance - that are beside the point I'm making. Your actions do not reflect your theory.

I also don't see why we would out our roles right now. RVS is better so that we don't randomly punish noobs or inactive players who could be town.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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10/24/2012 12:24:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 12:12:08 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
@IFLY- that is true, hence my "if I had to choose based off the Nk." I even realize its rather weak reasoning, but as of now, its about the best we have. In this game, the way I see it, we wont be able to analyze characters/role PM's, so it leaves the game being based purely on behavior in regards to catching scum.

Especially considering the cop is dead, we now have no choive but to analyze every little scrap of evidence, and NK's would be a part of that. I most certainly understand where your disagreeance is coming from, but ai implore you to rethink that, just in regards to this game and the situation we find ourselves in.

We already have two people to choose from because of the inactive rule(HCP and Caveat). Why do we need more than two claims?

I agree we will need to analyze behavior more closely this game given the early death of the cop. I just find player psych akin to random pressure but much more open to manipulation from mafia.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 12:26:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 12:21:23 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
If the reasoning based on the NK is the best we have, why the vote on HcP?

Simply put, being inactive isnt indicative of affiliation. The basis behind the inactive rule isnt that inactive players are scum, its that claims are best gotten from inactives early on so there is a solid indicator of their affiliation. The inactivity leaves us with no indicator, the claim gives us that indicator.

You're already getting overly-defensive regarding some words - cognitive dissonance - that are beside the point I'm making. Your actions do not reflect your theory.

If it was beside the point you are making why was it the only point you brought up?

I also don't see why we would out our roles right now. RVS is better so that we don't randomly punish noobs or inactive players who could be town.

So let me get this straight. You want to avoid randomly punishing inactives? But its ok that we random vote? As long as its not inactives? Then how is the voting at all random if inactives and noobs are avoided? Sounds like you are trying to garner claims from experienced players, without coming out and saying flat-out thats what you want to do.

Which hints upon a fear of drawing attention to yourself by taking a stance such as that.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 12:29:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 12:24:52 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 10/24/2012 12:12:08 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
@IFLY- that is true, hence my "if I had to choose based off the Nk." I even realize its rather weak reasoning, but as of now, its about the best we have. In this game, the way I see it, we wont be able to analyze characters/role PM's, so it leaves the game being based purely on behavior in regards to catching scum.

Especially considering the cop is dead, we now have no choive but to analyze every little scrap of evidence, and NK's would be a part of that. I most certainly understand where your disagreeance is coming from, but ai implore you to rethink that, just in regards to this game and the situation we find ourselves in.

We already have two people to choose from because of the inactive rule(HCP and Caveat). Why do we need more than two claims?

Was caveat inactive in Quaint Town as well? Cause if so, then we of course, can disregard my analysis upon the NK, and get claims from Caveat and HcP. I was just waiting upon clarification of the true level of Caveats inactivity and whether he has become more active.

I agree we will need to analyze behavior more closely this game given the early death of the cop. I just find player psych akin to random pressure but much more open to manipulation from mafia.

So random pressure to you is scummy?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 12:30:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:48:13 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Unvote VTL Budda

The vote on HCP doesn't make much sense given the analysis of social... F-16 calls this a cognitive dissonance.

This is what Fourtrouble posted, but apparently thats not the point he was trying to make... But then, where is the point he was trying to make?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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10/24/2012 12:34:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 12:29:14 PM, Buddamoose wrote:

So random pressure to you is scummy?

Umm, yes. The only time I have seen random pressure used was from Social in Kill Bill(He was mafia) and Daytona in Quickfire(who was also mafia). I don't even know if I have seen a townie use random pressure...
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/24/2012 1:15:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL HCP per the inactive rule (also sort of noobish no offense). I don't see Ft's reason for random voting, even if Drafter incorporates Epicmafia elements into the game. The reason for the noob rule is to increase the possibility of scum slips, the reason for the inactive rule is to get them out of the way. Including Epicmafia roles/game mechanics doesn't change any of this.

On the analysis of the NK, I don't like the reasoning (and not just because it leads to me lol). If Logic or Fourtrouble died in the NP this reasoning would still lead to me so I don't see why a newb dying should do the same. It's like damned if you do damned if you don't man.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 1:17:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 12:34:18 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 10/24/2012 12:29:14 PM, Buddamoose wrote:

So random pressure to you is scummy?

Umm, yes. The only time I have seen random pressure used was from Social in Kill Bill(He was mafia) and Daytona in Quickfire(who was also mafia). I don't even know if I have seen a townie use random pressure...

At 10/24/2012 11:40:55 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
I suggest we start this game with a Random Voting Stage, as they do on mafiascum.

VTL F-16

Then it seems to me IFLY, that you should be voting for FT
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/24/2012 1:20:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:38:26 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Wow, cop dies right away. Isnt that just terrific(note the sarcasm). Anyways, seeing as MA was truly the only "noob" among us. We're left with garnering an inactives claim.

Overjustification.

The top three in this game to me would be:

1) Caveat
2) Medic
3) HcP

HcP and Caveat most of all with Medic as a tertiary inactive.

Contrived.

Havent paid much attention to the other game Caveat's in tho(Quaint town I believe) since DP1, so I'm not sure how active he has been in that game. HcP hasnt been in a game in a lil bit, so he seems as good a place to start as any.

Fluff.

VTL HcP

As for the NK. Seems odd MA died, and if I was force to pick someone based off of the NK, I would pick Social.

Who is forcing you to pick anyone?

In previous games as mafia with him he purposely avoids killing more experienced players, out of fear of being FOS'd for it. In fact in Celebrities mafia he was vehemently against killing Royal NP2(as we ended up doing) and would have preferred killing chicken(a noob).

Unnecessary FOS especially when you are acting as if someone is forcing you to make an FOS when no one is doing so.

So as weak as the reasoning may be, its better than the nothing we have at this point. After HcP's claim, I definitely wouldnt mind getting Socials(refer to previous paragraph as to why.)

If the reasoning was so weak, why did you care to present it?

Overall,
"VTL HCP, Inactive rule" would have been so much better as opposed to this post.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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10/24/2012 1:21:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Then it seems to me IFLY, that you should be voting for FT

Why is that? I don't find his vote on you random. I think it too is flawed, but I don't find it necessarily scummy. I'm not voting for him for the same reason I'm not voting for you.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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10/24/2012 1:23:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 1:15:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:

On the analysis of the NK, I don't like the reasoning (and not just because it leads to me lol). If Logic or Fourtrouble died in the NP this reasoning would still lead to me so I don't see why a newb dying should do the same. It's like damned if you do damned if you don't man.

Maybe in regards to other people, but I myself wouldnt of singled you out had an experienced player died. Simply due to Celebrities mafia and your statements in regards to not wanting to kill experienced players so as to not draw attention to yourself. I'm certain, given this, you can understand why you would come to mind, in reference to the choice of Nk.

Now obviously, as I've stated twice before, I understand the reasoning itself isnt very strong. And as the DP is progressing, I am getting better reads on players. What we need now is to make sure that everyone posts substantive analysis at least once, detailing their thoughts on players, actions, and who they FOS, and town-read. My opinion is after getting claims, we shoul vote those who havent posted much analysis at that point, as a means to force them to post analysis.

Imo, fluff or lack of substantive analysis will be the strongest indicators of affiliation in this game. Thoughts?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/24/2012 1:24:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:43:53 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Also, recalling back to a statement drafter made awhile ago in reference to this set-up he created. I believe it was in a thread discussing Third Parties. Drafter specifically stated, if I'm recalling correctly, that a Jester was included in the game itself. So we need to watch out for that

Obsession with the third party as opposed to mafia. Nice. This is a goldmine, people. Wagon him up.