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Beginners 12.1 - DAY PHASE TWO

drafterman
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11/10/2012 7:05:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Died in the Night:
MilitaryAtheist - Vanilla

Living Players:
1. TheAntidoter
2. Chicken
3. Jordan56
4. SarcasticIndeed
5. emospongebob527
6. Lannan13
7. johnnyboy54
8. Buddamoose
9. airmax1227

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
This Day Phase will end no later than 7PM DDO Time on 11/12.
airmax1227
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11/10/2012 7:24:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
MA was an interesting choice for the mafia NK being that he appeared fairly scummy... Not really sure I understand the move there.

The general idea as mafia is that you want to kill either the greatest threats to the mafia, or the most "town confirmed" players who would be impossible to mislynch. Someone in the mafia could probably have encouraged lynching MA if we had no results to go on this DP (a 'guilty' cop result specifically) gaining a mislynch by the town of a town member rather easily.

Since its quite likely that the cop wont have any results, town will likely not have much to go on this DP, and a couple of players (from the mafia in particular) could have easily encouraged the town to lynch him.

I suppose its possible that the mafia viewed MA's refusal to claim his role as indicative of a soft power role claim. If this is the case it explains why MA is now dead. Since losing vanilla townies are the preferred members to lose, MA has actually contributed greatly to our cause by his death, so kudos to him.

With that said, do we have any results?
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Chicken
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11/10/2012 9:44:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 7:24:53 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
MA was an interesting choice for the mafia NK being that he appeared fairly scummy... Not really sure I understand the move there.

The general idea as mafia is that you want to kill either the greatest threats to the mafia, or the most "town confirmed" players who would be impossible to mislynch. Someone in the mafia could probably have encouraged lynching MA if we had no results to go on this DP (a 'guilty' cop result specifically) gaining a mislynch by the town of a town member rather easily.

Since its quite likely that the cop wont have any results, town will likely not have much to go on this DP, and a couple of players (from the mafia in particular) could have easily encouraged the town to lynch him.

I suppose its possible that the mafia viewed MA's refusal to claim his role as indicative of a soft power role claim. If this is the case it explains why MA is now dead. Since losing vanilla townies are the preferred members to lose, MA has actually contributed greatly to our cause by his death, so kudos to him.

With that said, do we have any results?

We are waiting on the cop's results. As for what is confirmed:

Consider why MA was taken out first, as far as logic goes, deducing that MA had a soft power role was logical for Mafia, considering he refused to claim, or even "Fake-Claim" vanilla as most people often do. In fact, if he were to claim Vanilla, Mafia would have probably gone after someone else, even if they assumed he was lying about his role. The noob mistake in that situation was refusing to claim, or even fake claim. MA was either just being dumb, or maybe actually trying to help town.

As for the Mafia strategy, I think mafia are not the experienced players for 2 reasons (Correct me If I'm wrong Airmax)

1) MA was the greatest possible threat to Mafia, moreso through intimidation than through anything else. As stated before, If MA had simply claimed vanilla (Much like everyone else, including all power roles) regardless of whether or not he was, Mafia would have no doubt gone to someone else, MA wasn't a direct threat, more than he was intimidating and coercing the Mafia to separate themselves from him. While this may not make sense (As you stated before Airmax, Mafia want townies to be mislynched) this is indicative of an unexperienced mafia player. Obviously this isn't a 100% justification for Mafia being a bunch of new players, b/c there could be some reverse- role playing/experience levels in this game.

2) MA was 1 vote away from being lynched, obviously Mafia wanted him out of the picture from the start, so i strongly believe at least one of the people who voted for lynching MA was mafia, and as all the players (Including myself) are unexperienced, it's quite clear at least 1 mafia member is going to be an easy target in this game. We need to demand Role claims from each and every person who voted to Lynch MA, it's the only thing we can do. Mafia obviously would want a mis-lynch if the person who was lynched clearly threatened them in some way (Insofar as I believe it to be more intimidation, we can stick with this theory). Mislynching in DP1 isn't a big Mafia trick of minimizing numbers, rather it is their way of trying to get a power role out of the game, and then take advantage of NP1.

So, For now, VTNL but I will probably have some sort of vote after i gather enough data. I implore all people who voted to lynch MA give a role claim, or else I will vote to Lynch.

My claim- (Reiterated from DP1) Vanilla.
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johnnyboy54
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11/11/2012 4:18:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I stand by my comment regarding follow the cop. It is my opinion that follow the cop gives us the greatest chance of eliminating scum.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE
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TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 8:10:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

Time for some complex behavioral analysis that may not be good but i still know he is scum. All of these are IMO's.

1. Buddhamoose Only posted 2 times that day phase. ugh I admit there isn't much to post about, he may be lurking on the mafia PM.
2. His only two post were in response to Jordan56. Even then all he did was vote and then unvote. By agreeing with Jordan56 who was actively pursuing strategies to kill scum,he was trying to look pro-town as a result.

That is all for now. E have 1 scum ready to lynch, so we need to capitalize on this.
Watch for cop CC's. They are more targets.
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SarcasticIndeed
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11/11/2012 12:09:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

We'll have to wait for CCs, if any.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 12:21:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 12:09:45 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

We'll have to wait for CCs, if any.

Ok then.
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Jordan56
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11/11/2012 2:24:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is the exact reason why I never trust Budda. He is good at playing pro-town. I will give him that. I cannot trut any results, however, until I hear from everybody and notice any possible CC's.
airmax1227
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11/11/2012 2:25:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 8:10:43 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

Time for some complex behavioral analysis that may not be good but i still know he is scum. All of these are IMO's.

1. Buddhamoose Only posted 2 times that day phase. ugh I admit there isn't much to post about, he may be lurking on the mafia PM.
2. His only two post were in response to Jordan56. Even then all he did was vote and then unvote. By agreeing with Jordan56 who was actively pursuing strategies to kill scum,he was trying to look pro-town as a result.

That is all for now. E have 1 scum ready to lynch, so we need to capitalize on this.
Watch for cop CC's. They are more targets.

This behavioral analysis is pretty limited and only makes sense after the fact of knowing he is guilty...

What in particular compelled you to cop Budda when there were better or similar options in the last DP?

Jordan wanted the cop outed right away, MA refused to claim and some players were entirely inactive... Since you are claiming cop, and have a guilty result on DP2 which defies the odds, it is crucial that we be sure about this.
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Jordan56
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11/11/2012 2:29:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 2:25:22 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/11/2012 8:10:43 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

Time for some complex behavioral analysis that may not be good but i still know he is scum. All of these are IMO's.

1. Buddhamoose Only posted 2 times that day phase. ugh I admit there isn't much to post about, he may be lurking on the mafia PM.
2. His only two post were in response to Jordan56. Even then all he did was vote and then unvote. By agreeing with Jordan56 who was actively pursuing strategies to kill scum,he was trying to look pro-town as a result.

That is all for now. E have 1 scum ready to lynch, so we need to capitalize on this.
Watch for cop CC's. They are more targets.

This behavioral analysis is pretty limited and only makes sense after the fact of knowing he is guilty...

What in particular compelled you to cop Budda when there were better or similar options in the last DP?

Jordan wanted the cop outed right away, MA refused to claim and some players were entirely inactive... Since you are claiming cop, and have a guilty result on DP2 which defies the odds, it is crucial that we be sure about this.

What more do you want? It's a guilty result. All we have to do is wait for a possible CC and see who is scummier.
airmax1227
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11/11/2012 2:37:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 2:29:06 PM, Jordan56 wrote:
At 11/11/2012 2:25:22 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/11/2012 8:10:43 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 7:58:51 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
OK GUYS LETS DO THIS... LEROY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I am the Cop.

I investigated Buddhamoose and found him to be guilty.

VTL BUDDHAMOOSE

Time for some complex behavioral analysis that may not be good but i still know he is scum. All of these are IMO's.

1. Buddhamoose Only posted 2 times that day phase. ugh I admit there isn't much to post about, he may be lurking on the mafia PM.
2. His only two post were in response to Jordan56. Even then all he did was vote and then unvote. By agreeing with Jordan56 who was actively pursuing strategies to kill scum,he was trying to look pro-town as a result.

That is all for now. E have 1 scum ready to lynch, so we need to capitalize on this.
Watch for cop CC's. They are more targets.

This behavioral analysis is pretty limited and only makes sense after the fact of knowing he is guilty...

What in particular compelled you to cop Budda when there were better or similar options in the last DP?

Jordan wanted the cop outed right away, MA refused to claim and some players were entirely inactive... Since you are claiming cop, and have a guilty result on DP2 which defies the odds, it is crucial that we be sure about this.

What more do you want? It's a guilty result. All we have to do is wait for a possible CC and see who is scummier.

We are naturally going to wait for the CC.

But I also want an explanation for why he copped Budda...

He apparently disagreed with your idea of the cop outing himself on DP1 (because he didn't out himself) which makes you (someone wanting the cop outed) a scummier target to cop.

In other words, TheAntidoter agreed with Budda about the cop not outing himself, disagreed with you, and yet still copped Budda and not the guy who was trying to get him to out his role...

It doesn't really add up.

On the other hand, it may mean nothing because of the nature of beginner games.

However, getting a better explanation for why he decided to cop Budda (when there were better options, like you, and MA) is an entirely reasonable request.
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SarcasticIndeed
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11/11/2012 2:55:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, who he copped made no sense, really, even though I'd investigate Budda in his spot (He seems scummy to me). MA would be a more obvious choice, right? Anyway, we are still waiting for that CC
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airmax1227
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11/11/2012 4:24:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 2:55:26 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
Well, who he copped made no sense, really, even though I'd investigate Budda in his spot (He seems scummy to me). MA would be a more obvious choice, right? Anyway, we are still waiting for that CC

If who he copped made no sense, why would you investigate Biudda in his spot?

MA would be the more obvious choice... or Jordan because he wanted the cop to out, which the cop clearly didn't agree with because he didn't out himself...

The whole thing just seems off... I'd like TA to explain his reasoning... Either way we are waiting for the CC (counter claim) to see if his claim (and guilty result) holds up...
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airmax1227
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11/11/2012 4:42:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I really don't know how to proceed with this.....

Zaradi is a clever player, as I've seen this through several games I've played with him as both mafia and town.

He happens to be the mafia adviser.

I wouldn't put it past Zaradi to be encouraging the mafia to be trying to get the cop to out himself...

This failed in DP1, but he knows that a fake claim of cop and a false claim of guilty results on Budda will get the type of results the mafia needs... A mislynch of Budda (an experienced mafia player) or the the actual cop to out himself...

I'm going to ask anyone who is considering CCing TA's claim of cop to wait to do this until TA has explained his reasoning behind Copping Budda... If the explanation does not check out I think we should lynch him...

The last thing we need is for the cop to be the NK target and to out himself based on a mafia gambit specifically designed to out the cop.

Once TA explains his reasoning the cop can CC if the explanation doesn't appear scummy or random.

I also don't want to just lynch TA, who is potentially the actual cop... but very little of his behavior makes any sense.

So lets wait until he explains why he copped Budda, and then let's go from there.
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TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 4:45:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 2:55:26 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
Well, who he copped made no sense, really, even though I'd investigate Budda in his spot (He seems scummy to me). MA would be a more obvious choice, right? Anyway, we are still waiting for that CC

Ok time for my reasoning
Most is my opinion.

1. Now Although Jordan56 was presenting a strategy I did not agree with, I He at lest HAD a strategy. He carried us out of the random lynch stage. And I saw that as Pro-Town
2. MilitaryAithest seemed rather harmless. He wasn't trying to push any lynches, just random voting.
3. As soon as Buddhamoose Unvoted, he went straght to MA. MA seemed to be bandwagon for his behavior, and got pushed too fast. The person who got the bandwagon going was Buddhamoose.
4. Jordan56 Gave a reason for Lynching MA, and everyone else followed it. Since he had a reason, his reason I viewed as Pro-Town.
5. Considering point 4, Buddhamoose who just disagreed with Jorden56 all of a sudden went with it. That swing with the pro-town viewed player tipped me off.
6. Chicken made an excellent point:

2) MA is too obvious to be Mafia, and if he is, then he just is awful in general. Voting to lynch wouldn't make a big difference, worst comes to worst he's vanilla.

7. MA post 70 made a analysis that appealed to me because I was the cop and I wanted to stay hidden. My personal Survival instinct led me to agree with him to save myself, thus removing my suspicion of him.
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Buddamoose
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11/11/2012 4:45:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL Antidoter

LIES!!!!

Which is really all I can say in my defense I suppose. After all, my behavior hasnt been particularly scummy has it, so there really isnt a valid case against me with the exception of the alleged guilty by the Mr. Fakey McFakeCop
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
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"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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Buddamoose
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11/11/2012 4:46:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
VTL Antidoter
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 4:47:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:46:44 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
VTL Antidoter

Role claim please.
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TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 4:50:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:46:44 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
VTL Antidoter

Ok I have a question for you.

According to Drafterman:

Set-Up:
This round includes an Open Setup. This means that all the roles will be known publicly. This game involves the following roles:
Town - 1x Cop, 1x Doctor, 5x Vanilla
Mafia - 1x Role-Cop, 2x Goon

There Has to be a Cop. If you say I am fake, where is the counterclaim, or according to you the Real.Mr Real Cop?
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Buddamoose
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11/11/2012 4:50:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So to clarify Antidoter. The only reason you had that I was scum was because I had previously voted for Jordan, yet agreed with his reason in regards to MA?

Could you care to explain how thats at all scummy? You are essentially saying I'm scummy because I unvoted Jordan, then went with voting MA. Yet both votes had valid reasons, and I only unvoted from Jordan because I found his explanation of why he suggested follow the cop to be sufficient enough for me to not continue voting him
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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11/11/2012 4:51:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:50:18 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 4:46:44 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
VTL Antidoter

Ok I have a question for you.

According to Drafterman:

Set-Up:
This round includes an Open Setup. This means that all the roles will be known publicly. This game involves the following roles:
Town - 1x Cop, 1x Doctor, 5x Vanilla
Mafia - 1x Role-Cop, 2x Goon

There Has to be a Cop. If you say I am fake, where is the counterclaim, or according to you the Real.Mr Real Cop?

Has everyone posted yet?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
airmax1227
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11/11/2012 4:53:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:45:10 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 2:55:26 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
Well, who he copped made no sense, really, even though I'd investigate Budda in his spot (He seems scummy to me). MA would be a more obvious choice, right? Anyway, we are still waiting for that CC

Ok time for my reasoning
Most is my opinion.

1. Now Although Jordan56 was presenting a strategy I did not agree with, I He at lest HAD a strategy. He carried us out of the random lynch stage. And I saw that as Pro-Town
2. MilitaryAithest seemed rather harmless. He wasn't trying to push any lynches, just random voting.
3. As soon as Buddhamoose Unvoted, he went straght to MA. MA seemed to be bandwagon for his behavior, and got pushed too fast. The person who got the bandwagon going was Buddhamoose.
4. Jordan56 Gave a reason for Lynching MA, and everyone else followed it. Since he had a reason, his reason I viewed as Pro-Town.
5. Considering point 4, Buddhamoose who just disagreed with Jorden56 all of a sudden went with it. That swing with the pro-town viewed player tipped me off.
6. Chicken made an excellent point:

2) MA is too obvious to be Mafia, and if he is, then he just is awful in general. Voting to lynch wouldn't make a big difference, worst comes to worst he's vanilla.

7. MA post 70 made a analysis that appealed to me because I was the cop and I wanted to stay hidden. My personal Survival instinct led me to agree with him to save myself, thus removing my suspicion of him.

I suppose this is a legit case, although some of your reasons are suspect... if Budda was mafia, why would he have argued against the cop outing himself?

Once the mafia know who the cop is, its just a matter of time until they NK him and the town has no chance of getting results on who the mafia are.

Anyways, you have explained your reasoning so I'll move on...

We now need a cop to CC... if this doesn't happen in the near future we'll proceed with lynching Budda.

If Budda flips inno, we will naturally lynch TA.
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airmax1227
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11/11/2012 4:59:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
hmmm

If there is a cop CC, please CC now.

The cop claiming now would benefit the town and there is no advantage anymore to staying hidden.

So if someone else is the cop and knows TA is lying please state your claim as soon as possible.
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TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 4:59:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:50:38 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
So to clarify Antidoter. The only reason you had that I was scum was because I had previously voted for Jordan, yet agreed with his reason in regards to MA?

Could you care to explain how thats at all scummy? You are essentially saying I'm scummy because I unvoted Jordan, then went with voting MA. Yet both votes had valid reasons, and I only unvoted from Jordan because I found his explanation of why he suggested follow the cop to be sufficient enough for me to not continue voting him

You say that both votes were explained. The first vote I can understand, But the second vote

This is the Post:
At 11/8/2012 12:47:59 PM, Jordan56 wrote:
At 11/8/2012 12:32:22 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
VTL Jordan

For wanting cop to out. Follow the cop is a strategem that doesnt work too often in my experience, and usually is suggested by scum looking to both CC and narrow down odds of hitting doc.

I only want the cop to out to get some action going. Honestly, if I didn't say anything everyone would vote everyone based on the noob rule, we would get a bunch of vanilla claims and VTNL. Nothing important. I also asked if you had a better plan to state is as mine was not set in stone.
If cop claims and we get a cc we have a likely scum leaving us with two more for a win. I suggested doc protect himself or the cop (if we were to follow my plan) in order to confuse mafia.
Mafia would have to kill either the claimed cop or a random player to shoot for doc, so its a 50-50 chance that they'll kill either cop or a random vanilla.
I can see how I would be seen as scummy, but it was just a suggestion.
Ok Jordan, I find your explanation sufficientUnvote VTL Ma

Badwagonning onto who I vote wont earn you any brownie points

I do not see why you voted MA after that? Why couldn't you have just VTNL?
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airmax1227
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11/11/2012 5:00:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 4:47:36 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 11/11/2012 4:46:44 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
VTL Antidoter

Role claim please.

While I don't actually trust either of you (Budda or TA), TA is right that you might as well role claim Budda...
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Buddamoose
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11/11/2012 5:03:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Naturally I'm a vanilla airmax. When have you ever seen an experienced player with a power role?

Oh and Whats this nonsense. So Ma was town because he didnt want cop outted, but I suggested the same thing fiirst and i'm scum. This is nonsense
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
TheAntidoter
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11/11/2012 5:08:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 5:03:07 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Naturally I'm a vanilla airmax. When have you ever seen an experienced player with a power role?

Oh and Whats this nonsense. So Ma was town because he didnt want cop outted, but I suggested the same thing fiirst and i'm scum. This is nonsense

Well you did both suggest the same thing, but you voted to lynch Pro-Town Jorden56.
That is not normal, as in VTLing a pro-town person.
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airmax1227
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11/11/2012 5:09:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 5:03:07 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Naturally I'm a vanilla airmax. When have you ever seen an experienced player with a power role?

I figured you were vanilla... just wanted it for the record.

Oh and Whats this nonsense. So Ma was town because he didnt want cop outted, but I suggested the same thing fiirst and i'm scum. This is nonsense

Yeah idk what the deal with this case is... I felt the vtl (for a role claim) on MA was legit and so did 5 other players...

I really don't understand why there would be an FOS on you (for telling the cop not out himself of all things), nor why the cop would cop you (considering he agreed by not outing himself)... But TA did explain his reasons, so now we have to wait for a CC.

Ultimately the whole thing is petty shady...
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