Total Posts:39|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Fate - The Economy - Analysis

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 5:16:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My game, The Economy, was a bit of an experiment. It ended more prematurely than I had planned. But I plan on restarting it, taking into account what I learned from the original. This is my analysis.

Rules: http://www.debate.org...
Day 1-5: http://www.debate.org...
Day 6-7: http://www.debate.org...

I did say that the game would be unpredictable, since it was mostly player generated. And the first thing I noticed is that it went completely unexpected.

I made it pretty clear that the point of the game was to innovate; to build your own society. And that's pretty fun, just on it's own. But apparently that wasn't enough for the players. Despite the fact that, by the nature of the game, no one was really at odds with one another, they insisted on killing everyone off. Instead of building things that would increase their satisfaction level and better society, they spent all their time building weapons in a huge arms race.

I've spent some time thinking about why this would happen. At first, I thought it was just boredom. But the more I thought about it, that didn't seem right. Despite every opportunity they had to better themselves, they chose to harm their neighbors instead. Very little trust was ever established between players. If the players had made different decisions, they very well may have advanced further in one day than they had through this entire game.

But it has finally occurred to me what the problem was. This whole game has been a textbook example of The Prisoner's Dilemma. You can look it up if you want a detailed explanation but basically The Prisoner's Dilemma is a scenario in which the best decision for each individual, combined, is actually the worst case scenario for everyone. It's essentially the story of most of humanity's failures. In this case, everyone thought that everyone else was out to get them, so they had to get them first. Essentially, The Cold War.

Now, some Libertarians might laugh at me for this, but I think the reason why this occurred is because there was no Social Contract. It's what reverses The Prisoner's Dilemma. When people have a Social Contract, they go into The Prisoner's Dilemma knowing about it and having a deal do cooperate for the greater good. That's really what the big change was when we came out of Dark Ages. We established a Social Contract.

So, next time around, I'm going to set things up a little differently. Instead of leaving a blank slate, I'll have the necessary infrastructure already in place. It could still erupt in violence, either out of spite or boredom. But it has a much better shot.

Now, that's not all I noticed that was completely whack about how people played the game. In-fact, there was a great multitude of completely irrational behavior. And I'm not sure why they never noticed the absurdity of what they were doing. I mean, I'm a smart guy. But I'm not that much smarter than them, am I? What is it about being a player that made them completely oblivious? I haven't figured that one out.

The most obvious problem was the fiat currency. It was a really hopeless situation. I started the game with two banks. This allowed currency competition. But then one of the banks bought out the other one....with currency it printed. How can you fall for that? That one bank then became the defacto central bank, owned by one person. This banker then had everyone work for them, being payed with this currency. And, oh, did I forget something? It's completely worthless. Everyone just assumed the money has value, cause'--hey--, it's money. But everyone forgot what the whole point of a bank is. You put stuff of value in it for safe keeping and you get a receipt in return(money). No one did this. The bank was empty. It only printed money. Everyone accepted the money. No one imposed any limit on how much the banker could print. This gave the banker an infinite wallet. And that's not even the whole absurdity of it. After people spent their working hours gaining worthless currency, they never did anything with it. At no point in the game was there a single transaction using the money besides when people were first initially payed for work. So it's almost like people actually recognized that it had no value. Yet they still worked for it instead of demanding more ore or crops, which everyone did give value.

Now, lets take a look at those things called ore and crop. Crop is used for eating or planting--that's it. Ore is the very foundation of the game. It's what people can use to build everything out of. What we see in the game is that people scarcely made any distinction between the two. They sought just as many crops as ore. Even though ore is much more useful and is exhausted much more quickly. On top of that, only a certain amount of crop can be eaten in a day. Continuing the absurdity, only one person ran into that issue. No one else even tried to eat a ton of their overabundance of crop in an effort to increase their satisfaction level. They just let it sit around. Again, just like with the money, we see people trying to acquire something for no good reason.

So yeah, basically none of it made any sense. We'll see how things work out with a few adjustments.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Dignitas
Posts: 27
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 10:08:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, boy, I am so excited about this game.
Freedo, may I please play this round?
--
Dignitas
Vote it up, please!
http://debate.org...

In the beginning, God said the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light.
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 7:23:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm up for this since I survived when will this start.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 7:28:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have a reservation, great.

I'll try not to be such a retard this time.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 11:31:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll play. I usually don't do forum games, but...
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 11:33:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll play! This reminds me of Civ, nation building and the like
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 11:36:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whoever killed MilitaryAtheist on the second night probably screwed everything up.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 4:22:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/6/2012 7:23:30 AM, lannan13 wrote:
I'm up for this since I survived when will this start.

Not sure yet. My internet isn't all together in the weather here.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 7:10:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/6/2012 11:36:48 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Whoever killed MilitaryAtheist on the second night probably screwed everything up.

Sorry, I got greedy. To be honest I killed the most people up until Daytona died and Zaradi just destroyed all of us.
Disciple of Koopin
Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

Servant of Kfc
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/7/2012 8:01:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/6/2012 7:10:06 PM, Chicken wrote:
At 12/6/2012 11:36:48 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Whoever killed MilitaryAtheist on the second night probably screwed everything up.

Sorry, I got greedy. To be honest I killed the most people up until Daytona died and Zaradi just destroyed all of us.

You guys should have just stuck with me. We could have won the game together.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/7/2012 6:46:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Suggestion: FREEDO, am I allowed to do (Below) that?

I will work for the head of state or other powerful role like that as a BODYGUARD

IF they would for instance "Blown to bits by a cannon" I would die instead and they would live.
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
Abilities: ????

Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/12/2012 4:49:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So... when is this starting?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/12/2012 9:57:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that the main problem was that there really was no benefit to getting satisfaction when you could win just as easily by killing everyone else. Why build a skyscraper when I can just make sure no one else can get there?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/16/2012 7:52:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 4:49:58 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
So... when is this starting?
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
Abilities: ????

Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 1:07:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Reservations list:
1. Any who played last time.
2. TheAntidoter
3. Dignitas
4. Wallstreetatheist

I've never played a game on this site before, so this should be a fun introduction to the games forum.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 3:42:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2012 6:46:05 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
Suggestion: FREEDO, am I allowed to do (Below) that?

I will work for the head of state or other powerful role like that as a BODYGUARD

IF they would for instance "Blown to bits by a cannon" I would die instead and they would live.

Sure.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 3:43:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/17/2012 3:42:37 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/7/2012 6:46:05 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
Suggestion: FREEDO, am I allowed to do (Below) that?

I will work for the head of state or other powerful role like that as a BODYGUARD

IF they would for instance "Blown to bits by a cannon" I would die instead and they would live.

Sure.

Most of the killing happened indirectly in the PMs though. So you probably wouldn't have the chance.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 3:45:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm thinking about having arbitrary political phases instead of having a player-generated government.

It would start out unregulated and then go into a regulating phase. Then deregulate and do it again.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 3:47:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find it funny how I didn't even ask for sign-ups and everyone is jumping in.

I'm not ready to start the game at this time yet.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 5:23:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/17/2012 1:07:34 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Reservations list:
1. Any who played last time.
2. TheAntidoter
3. Dignitas
4. Wallstreetatheist

I've never played a game on this site before, so this should be a fun introduction to the games forum.

*gasp*
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2012 11:26:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well FREEDO you can use the reservation people as immigrants...
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/6/2013 2:56:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can hardly wait for this to start, presuming that it ever will.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/6/2013 5:24:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
When will this start.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~