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PHILOSOPHER Mafia: DP 3

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/1/2013 5:58:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
-- LIVING PLAYERS --

04. Niwsa
05. Chicken
06. OneElephant
07. Burrito
08. tomvellalott
11. Johnnyboy
12. Buddamoose
13. daytonanerd
14. SarcasticIndeed
16. Ishall
17. F-16
18. IFLYHIGH
19. Leafrod
20. caveat

You need 8 votes to carry out a lynch.

The day phase will end on Thursday 1/3/13 @ 8 pm EST.

-- DECEASED --

Note: I said that I would reveal people's roles after their lynch. I meant to say I will be revealing their alignment.

socialpinko: You are Niccolo Machiavelli, a mafia politician. As a philosopher, you're notoriously unsystematic, inconsistent, and sometimes self-contradictory. You tend to avoid rigorous logical analysis. However, you have a lot of ideas that others feel compelled to engage with, and as such are worthy of philosophical discourse. You are known for espousing ideas such as "It is better to be feared than loved." You're also a fan of force when it comes to authority and the State. You believe that since coercion creates legality, a concentration on force is paramount. You don't care about people's freedom. Starting with DP 1, you may usurp the vote of another player. With every DP you're alive, you get an additional # of votes you can steal. For example, on DP 2, you can steal 2 player's votes. On DP 3, you can steal 3 people's votes, and so on. You can steal as many votes as you want or none at all, depending on how you want to use your power. (If for example it's DP 6 and you're alive, and you only need 6 votes to lynch, yes you can single-handedly lynch someone by stealing 6 other votes.) You win with the mafia.

Marauder: You are Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, a town JOAT. You are a French Enlightenment writer, historian, and philosopher famous for your wit and advocacy of civil liberties - including freedom of religion, freedom of expression, free trade, and separation of church and state. You are a versatile writer, producing works in almost every literary form. Your versaility is what makes you a JOAT. You have a 1x ability from any of the following night actions: 1-shot vig kill, bodyguard (die in the place of another player targeted for a night kill), or immunity (any night action used on you would not go through). You win with the town.

TUF: You are Socrates, a town orator. An ancient Greek philosopher, you are credited as one of the founders of Western philosophy. You are a well-known, enigmatic figure known chiefly through the accounts of later classical writers, including your famous student, Plato. You're most famous for developing the Socratic method: a commonly used tool in a wide range of discussions, used a type of pedagogy in which a series of questions are asked not only to draw individual answers, but also to encourage fundamental insight into the issue at hand. You also made important and lasting contributions to the fields of epistemology and logic, and the influence of your ideas and approach remain strong in providing a foundation for much philosophy that followed. Because of how hilarious/ awesome/ frustrating the Socratic method can be, you will be a tough one to lynch. Instead of taking 1/2 the votes of active players to lynch you, it will take 2/3 of the player's votes in order to be lynched during the DP. You win with the town.
President of DDO
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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1/1/2013 6:14:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So... Here's who's confirmed:

IFLY, Budda, Zaradi, daytona, Leafrod, Niwsa, TUF, OneElephant, Marauder

Only b/c I highly doubt mafia would hammer their own. That DP went by so fast, by the time I was on Spinko was lynched XD.

So, going off of what Budda said last DP,

VTL TV for FULL CLAIM (and maybe death) due to his believing Spinko, let's hear it TV.
Disciple of Koopin
Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

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Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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1/1/2013 6:17:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also does Danielle's video have any relevance? Notice the video talks about Hume, perhaps mafioso? Has anyone claimed Hume?
Disciple of Koopin
Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

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IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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1/1/2013 6:47:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:14:50 PM, Chicken wrote:
So... Here's who's confirmed:

IFLY, Budda, Zaradi, daytona, Leafrod, Niwsa, TUF, OneElephant, Marauder

Only b/c I highly doubt mafia would hammer their own. That DP went by so fast, by the time I was on Spinko was lynched XD.

So, going off of what Budda said last DP,

VTL TV for FULL CLAIM (and maybe death) due to his believing Spinko, let's hear it TV.

Confirmed is a strong word and I certainly wouldn't use it to describe anybody on Social's lynch. Social was almost guaranteed to be lynched last DP so bussing him shouldn't of been a big deal.

Also, I don't really buy the FOS on TV. Niwsa seemed to have made the same mistake as TV, yet nobody is FOS'ing her. The only difference is Niwsa realized why Rational and Drafter have role justifications while TV didn't. And tbh, I don't see the scum motivation for TV defending his scumbuddy after Social was already hammered. TV is a null read for me.

I have a couple town reads but not many scum reads. I may reread the DP's after I finish catching up on Christmas mafia. The only slight scum read I have is Chicken who seems to be jumping to conclusions way too quickly. There was no reason to VTL Marauder right off the bat, especially for death. Same with TV.

VTL Chicken for a claim.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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1/1/2013 6:59:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, my suspicion on Chicken is getting stronger.

He immediately vtl Marauder for death over the possibility that Marauder could be SK.

He VTL TV for possible death over a mistake that another player made too. Not to mention that TV wouldn't have any scummy motivation for defending Social after he was already dead.

Yet when Social makes a scum slip, Chicken wants an explanation first.

Major FOS on Chicken. I think he should role claim too.
Niwsa
Posts: 161
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1/1/2013 7:22:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I feel like maybe chicken is trying to fluff by talking about the video?

Did chicken forget that social claimed Hume? I feel like chicken is trying to provide bogus analysis.
http://debate.org... <--- please vote!
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 7:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:47:59 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 1/1/2013 6:14:50 PM, Chicken wrote:
So... Here's who's confirmed:

IFLY, Budda, Zaradi, daytona, Leafrod, Niwsa, TUF, OneElephant, Marauder

Only b/c I highly doubt mafia would hammer their own. That DP went by so fast, by the time I was on Spinko was lynched XD.

So, going off of what Budda said last DP,

VTL TV for FULL CLAIM (and maybe death) due to his believing Spinko, let's hear it TV.

Confirmed is a strong word and I certainly wouldn't use it to describe anybody on Social's lynch. Social was almost guaranteed to be lynched last DP so bussing him shouldn't of been a big deal.

Also, I don't really buy the FOS on TV. Niwsa seemed to have made the same mistake as TV, yet nobody is FOS'ing her. The only difference is Niwsa realized why Rational and Drafter have role justifications while TV didn't. And tbh, I don't see the scum motivation for TV defending his scumbuddy after Social was already hammered. TV is a null read for me.

I have a couple town reads but not many scum reads. I may reread the DP's after I finish catching up on Christmas mafia. The only slight scum read I have is Chicken who seems to be jumping to conclusions way too quickly. There was no reason to VTL Marauder right off the bat, especially for death. Same with TV.

VTL Chicken for a claim.

This was actually what I was trying to say the previous DP, but you articulated it so much better than I did.
VTL Chicken
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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1/1/2013 8:01:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am William James. Also, I don't understand how it's scummy to look at someone who was apparently confused about Spinko. TV's "confusion" doesn't make any sense whatsoever, he's an experienced player who knows a scumread when he sees one, yet this blatant read by everyone except him leaves us at making me claim? I still want an explanation from TV.
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Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

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Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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1/1/2013 8:01:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:22:17 PM, Niwsa wrote:
I feel like maybe chicken is trying to fluff by talking about the video?

Did chicken forget that social claimed Hume? I feel like chicken is trying to provide bogus analysis.

I didn't know Social claimed Hume.
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Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

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Niwsa
Posts: 161
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1/1/2013 8:23:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 8:01:30 PM, Chicken wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:22:17 PM, Niwsa wrote:
I feel like maybe chicken is trying to fluff by talking about the video?

Did chicken forget that social claimed Hume? I feel like chicken is trying to provide bogus analysis.

I didn't know Social claimed Hume.

Fake claimed that is.
http://debate.org... <--- please vote!
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/1/2013 8:26:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm Karl Popper, who up until this game I had never heard of (being ignorant of philosophy as I am). If enough people think I'm suspicious, I suppose I can role claim. I have a provable role, but it's not provably town so it won't help determine my affiliation anyway.

I maintain that socialpinko's defence was believable. He pointed at the dead, who had similar information in their role pm's to what he was claiming was in his. I also didn't participate in the rest of the day phase after unvoting, so if something happened that established his guilt further, I missed it.

FOS on Chicken for calling for my death.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 8:36:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 8:01:08 PM, Chicken wrote:
I am William James. Also, I don't understand how it's scummy to look at someone who was apparently confused about Spinko. TV's "confusion" doesn't make any sense whatsoever, he's an experienced player who knows a scumread when he sees one, yet this blatant read by everyone except him leaves us at making me claim? I still want an explanation from TV.

What made me want your role claim is because in the previous DP, upon reacting to the deaths last night, you immediately assumed that FT converted someone (as if you knew that that was what happened). Yet when SP outed that Marauder visited FT last night, you immediately switched tracks and "VTL[ed] Marauder for the death" without even considering any alternate possibility. That just seems like you're desperate for a lynch and is pretty scummy.
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 8:41:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:25:06 PM, Niwsa wrote:
Isn't tv's vote still suspicious because he invited to try to prevent spinko's death?

It is pretty scummy, but I can buy that he wasn't keeping up with the game and didn't notice that the mod promised to out more information after the player's death.
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 8:41:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 8:41:05 PM, OneElephant wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:25:06 PM, Niwsa wrote:
Isn't tv's vote still suspicious because he invited to try to prevent spinko's death?

It is pretty scummy, but I can buy that he wasn't keeping up with the game and didn't notice that the mod promised to out more information after the player's death.

The obscure claim doesn't really help either.
Niwsa
Posts: 161
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1/1/2013 8:54:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 8:26:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm Karl Popper, who up until this game I had never heard of (being ignorant of philosophy as I am). If enough people think I'm suspicious, I suppose I can role claim. I have a provable role, but it's not provably town so it won't help determine my affiliation anyway.

I maintain that socialpinko's defence was believable. He pointed at the dead, who had similar information in their role pm's to what he was claiming was in his. I also didn't participate in the rest of the day phase after unvoting, so if something happened that established his guilt further, I missed it.

FOS on Chicken for calling for my death.

So you're saying it was believable because you didn't notice that Danielle was releasing that info only in death?
http://debate.org... <--- please vote!
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 8:56:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
CLAIMS LIST

DEAD
01. FourTrouble - Alvin Plantinga - Yakuza
02. RationalMadMan - Baruch Spinoza - Oracle
03. Drafterman - Jean-Jacques Rousseau - Naive Mason Recruiter
04. SocialPinko - Niccolo Machiavelli - Mafia Politician
05. Marauder - Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire - JOAT
06. TUF - Socrates - Popular Townie [WHICH IS PRETTY IRONIC]

ROLE CLAIMED
07. Daytonanerd - Diogenes - Miller

CHARACTER CLAIMED
08. Niwsa - Daniel Dennett
09. Zaradi - Jean-Paul Sartre
10. Chicken - William James
11. Tvellalott - Karl Popper

UNCLAIMED
12. OneElephant
13. Burrito
14. Johnnyboy
15. Buddamoose
16. SarcasticIndeed
17. Ishall
18. IFLYHIGH
19. Leafrod
20. caveat

Okay, well I think this is accurate, please add in missing information if there is any.
Also, I'll just say that my role is redundant right now.
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/1/2013 9:02:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think William James is a pretty believable claim - since the mafia seem to be comprised of philosophers Danielle disagrees with, and as far as I know (according to the Wikipedia page on him that is), William James is a pretty agreeable and well respected guy. He also seems a bit too obscure for a fake claim.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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1/1/2013 9:27:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry I missed last DP. I didn't want to talk after Social got hammered. I'll claim if need be.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
ishallannoyyo
Posts: 1,034
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1/1/2013 9:52:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 8:26:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm Karl Popper, who up until this game I had never heard of (being ignorant of philosophy as I am). If enough people think I'm suspicious, I suppose I can role claim. I have a provable role, but it's not provably town so it won't help determine my affiliation anyway.

I maintain that socialpinko's defence was believable. He pointed at the dead, who had similar information in their role pm's to what he was claiming was in his. I also didn't participate in the rest of the day phase after unvoting, so if something happened that established his guilt further, I missed it.

How could you find it believable when none of us received any justification of any sort? His defence was that "it's pretty obvious what the justification is" and that the dead people had justification.


FOS on Chicken for calling for my death.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/2/2013 12:29:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've played a lot of Danielles games before I can't remember an instance where she withheld role information from the relevant players...

Look at it what happened...
I log in. social has seemingly slipped and the wagon is mounting. I got on the wagon, seeing it as the slip that it was.
People are calling for further explanation of this slip.
I actually explained the slip, including the relevant quote from Danielle.
social defends himself by pointing to the dead's role reveals as evidence that some people did receive information link their characters and roles. This seemed like good evidence in his favour; at least enough to warrant a second thought on lynching him.
I log out, missing the rest of the conversation.

Now that I've looked into it further I see that Danielle said "I will reveal each players FULL role pm on death" but I missed that yesterday. I'm sure it was pointed out later, but again, I wasn't here for the rest of the day phase.

We can get into the WIFOM of it all, but it's pointless. I don't see my actions as scummy, just as evidence of my fallibility.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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1/2/2013 6:53:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Holy cheeze, Chicken took my FOS to mean for death? Lols, a character claim is sufficient... but now that Chickens presented himself as a handy distraction

VTL Chicken

for a claim
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/2/2013 9:40:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
VOTE COUNT

tvellalott (Chicken, Sarcastic) -- 2/8 votes

Chicken (IFLY, OneElephant, Budda, ishallannoy) -- 4/8 votes
President of DDO
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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1/2/2013 10:35:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sounds good. Vote To Lynch Chicken
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush