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PHILOSOPHER Mafia: DP 7

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/22/2013 10:20:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
-- LIVING PLAYERS --

06. OneElephant
08. tomvellalott
13. royalpaladin
14. SarcasticIndeed
16. TUF 2
19. Leafrod
20. drafterman 2

-- DECEASED --

Nobody died during the night.

johnnyboy: You are Noam Chomsky, a town bomb. You are an American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, logician, historian, political critic, and activist. You have written over 100 books on war, politics, and mass media. You became a prominent critic of the Vietnam War, and since then have continued to publish books of political criticism. You are well known for critiques of state capitalism and U.S. foreign policy. Why would anyone want to kill someone both brilliant and anti-war? Pfft. You don't want to kill anyone, but sh!t happens. If people are dumb enough to challenge you and you're targeted for a kill, the kill will go through - but you will also take down the person responsible for your death (if lynched, it will be the person casting the lynch vote). You win with the town.

Chicken: You are William James, a mafia role blocking yakuza. Your philosophy of pragmatism is pretty sh!tty. You were also a fascist. While there are indeed benefits of perspective regarding using drugs *safely* and recreationally in an introspective, philosophical fashion, you were pretty much high on nitrous oxide all the time. That probably has to do with some of your dumb conclusions. But ya know, "hippy crack" as it's sometimes called is kinda fun... not gonna lie. During the NP, you can visit another player, get them high on whippets, and thereby prevent them from utilizing their role during the night. You also have the unique ability to sacrifice (kill) yourself for the greater good of your team if you so choose. On any NP, if you voluntarily kill yourself (not die by any other method), you can choose to die which will permanently RB another player of your choice for the rest of the game. You win with the mafia.

niwsa: Town Cop
Buddamoose: Town Beloved Princess
Zaradi: Town Vanilla
drafterman 1: Town Mason Recruiter
FourTrouble: Mafia Yakuza
RationalMadMan: Town Oracle
socialpinko: Mafia Politician
Marauder: Town JOAT
TUF 1: Town Orator (Popular Townie)
bossyburrito: Town Vigilante
IFLY: 3P Bulletproof Survivor

-- MOD NOTES --

* You need 4 votes to lynch.

* The DP will end NO LATER than 4:30 pm EST on Friday, January 25. It will not end in a NL.
President of DDO
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/22/2013 12:07:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
CLAIMS LIST

DEAD


IFLY- Ayn Rand- 3rd party survivor
FourTrouble- Alvin Plantinga - Yakuza
RationalMadMan - Baruch Spinoza - Oracle
Drafterman - Jean-Jacques Rousseau - Naive Mason Recruiter
SocialPinko - Niccolo Machiavelli - Mafia Politician
Marauder - Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire - JOAT
TUF(1) - Socrates - Popular Townie
Bossy-Voltairine de Cleyre- Town Vig
Buddamoose - Simone de Beauvoir- Beloved princess
Niwsa - Daniel Dennett- Cop
Johnnyboy - Noam Chomsky- Bomb
Chicken - William James - Roleblocking yazuka

ROLE CLAIMED
Royalpaladin - Diogenes - Miller
Tvellalott - Karl Popper- 2 shot JOAT
TUF -Betrand Russel- 2 shot JOAT
SarcasticIndeed - Rene Descartes - Dreamer (Tracker)
OneElephant - Immanuel Kant- Flavored x-shot Joat (vig kill)
Leafrod - Friedrich Nietzsche- Vanilla
drafterman2 - Epicurus- Hider

CHARACTER CLAIMED

Bossy(2) - Jean-Paul Sartre- Innocent by niwsa
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/22/2013 12:17:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have mostly town reads on all players except the following:

1. Royalpaladin- We know she investigates guilty. Whether she is really miller or not is unknown (there is no way to prove her role). That aside, I've been suspicious of her ever since she voted for IFLY DP5 even though she was convinced he was town. Also she tried pinning fault on me to glance suspicion on me, even after IFLY ended up really being guilty. But my biggest FOS on her is her aggressive play towards TV. She is commonly like this when she is mafia, chasing one target down and pushing heavily on their lynch, not backing down for anything. Also cross judging her behavior from this game, to other games where she has been town, you can definitely see her scum tell side showing through. She is not trying to smartly put pieces together, and actively deduce and make sense of the game like she has done in the past as a townie (not saying she always does lol). But her behavior here is definitely different than her normal town behavior IMO.

2. Leafrod- Has offered minimal activity, has a useless role (we already know that there was another vanilla in the graveyard). I am not saying that there can't be multiple vanillas, but normally you would see three if there was a multiple, not just 2. That aside, he has added a little on a few DP's, but he also has bandwagoned several times throughout this game (I remember calling him out on DP1 for this too). My FOS on him is minor, but still there.

3. Drafterman- Null read, which is wierd for drafter. Drafter is a big player, and he hasn't put a lot of noticeable effort in this game. I know as town he can usually help add a lot of great contributive analysis that usually ends up being helpful. Now he makes one or two posts about TV per DP and ignores FOS on other players. I don't think anyone has visited yet to prove his role also, so there is no way of knowing about his role. I don't neccesarily have a scum read on him, but he is included on this list because everyone not included on this list, are ones I have town reads on.

For now, I think Royal is the best lynch target.

VTL Royal.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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1/22/2013 12:30:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why is three vanillas more likely than two? And I don't remember you calling me out for bandwagoning either, but whatever.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/22/2013 12:56:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 12:17:22 PM, TUF wrote:
I have mostly town reads on all players except the following:

1. Royalpaladin- We know she investigates guilty. Whether she is really miller or not is unknown (there is no way to prove her role). That aside, I've been suspicious of her ever since she voted for IFLY DP5 even though she was convinced he was town. Also she tried pinning fault on me to glance suspicion on me, even after IFLY ended up really being guilty. But my biggest FOS on her is her aggressive play towards TV. She is commonly like this when she is mafia, chasing one target down and pushing heavily on their lynch, not backing down for anything. Also cross judging her behavior from this game, to other games where she has been town, you can definitely see her scum tell side showing through. She is not trying to smartly put pieces together, and actively deduce and make sense of the game like she has done in the past as a townie (not saying she always does lol). But her behavior here is definitely different than her normal town behavior IMO.

2. Leafrod- Has offered minimal activity, has a useless role (we already know that there was another vanilla in the graveyard). I am not saying that there can't be multiple vanillas, but normally you would see three if there was a multiple, not just 2. That aside, he has added a little on a few DP's, but he also has bandwagoned several times throughout this game (I remember calling him out on DP1 for this too). My FOS on him is minor, but still there.

3. Drafterman- Null read, which is wierd for drafter. Drafter is a big player, and he hasn't put a lot of noticeable effort in this game. I know as town he can usually help add a lot of great contributive analysis that usually ends up being helpful. Now he makes one or two posts about TV per DP and ignores FOS on other players. I don't think anyone has visited yet to prove his role also, so there is no way of knowing about his role. I don't neccesarily have a scum read on him, but he is included on this list because everyone not included on this list, are ones I have town reads on.

For now, I think Royal is the best lynch target.

VTL Royal.

I'm a little disenchanted with this game as a result of several failed attempts to get TV lynched. To me, it seems obvious, but I just can't seem to convince anyone else. So at this point I'm kind of like w/e. It's a bit frustrating to put in work that goes no where.

But, like I said, w/e. If no one is really going to look into these JOAT claims, then the miller is the next best thing.

VTL Royal
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/22/2013 1:04:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not sure why I'm being attacked like this. I haven't done anything scummy. I already dealt with TUF's accusations. I'm suspicious that drafter hasn't said anything about TUF at all, but whatever.

I'm not participating in the DP because I'm going to be lynched for no reason anyways. Have fun, guys.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/22/2013 4:43:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Did OneE ever fully reveal his role? Does he have any kind of investigation?
Does Sarcastic have results?

Maybe we should wait before lynching royal for no solid reason?

Also, I'm sorry you can't have me lynched drafter but It's probably because you have a stupid reason.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/22/2013 6:43:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 4:43:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Did OneE ever fully reveal his role? Does he have any kind of investigation?

Yes, he is a 3x JOAT. I can't remember is abilities, but you can find them in DP6 if you go and look.

Does Sarcastic have results?

I've been wondering this too.

Maybe we should wait before lynching royal for no solid reason?

I feel there's perty solid reasoning behind the lynch on her. The fact that mafia haven't jumped on and hammered her already with only two votes left, kind of is an indicator to me that she isn't town lol. But I could be wrong.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/22/2013 6:44:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 12:30:03 PM, LeafRod wrote:
Why is three vanillas more likely than two? And I don't remember you calling me out for bandwagoning either, but whatever.

You bandwagoned DP1, DP2, and DP3.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/22/2013 6:46:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
TUF, I'm sorry, but you are literally the scummiest person in the game, not to mention retarded. I'm at 2 votes, and it takes 4 to lynch. How the hell can the fact that the Mafia haven't hammered be an indication that I'm Mafia? If the Mafia COULD hammer right now, the game would be over. You're just throwing out dumb reason after dumb reason to have me lynched because people tend not to like me so I'm an easy lynch target.

VTL TUF
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/22/2013 6:48:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
LOL, I just realized that I'm wrong about the 2 person thing. Whatever though. He's just making up dumb excuse after dumb excuse and hoping something will stick.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/22/2013 7:04:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I still don't buy OneE. He is a three shot delayed joat with two of the same as abilities as me, as Kant?

But I think he was confirmed wasn't he? How solid is the confirmation?

Also, what is this reasoning to lynch royal? That she's the miller? That she hasn't been hammered?
Sounds bogus to me...

On my phone at the moment so a lengthy analysis of all the players is out of the question.

I want to hear from SarcasticIndeed. I want to hear this reasoning to lynch the uncced miller (with a role in that makes sense).
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/22/2013 7:07:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 6:46:47 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
TUF, I'm sorry, but you are literally the scummiest person in the game, not to mention retarded. I'm at 2 votes, and it takes 4 to lynch. How the hell can the fact that the Mafia haven't hammered be an indication that I'm Mafia? If the Mafia COULD hammer right now, the game would be over. You're just throwing out dumb reason after dumb reason to have me lynched because people tend not to like me so I'm an easy lynch target.

VTL TUF

Aww your so sweet! I fail to see why people always try to ban you from playing mafia.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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1/22/2013 7:11:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 7:04:25 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I still don't buy OneE. He is a three shot delayed joat with two of the same as abilities as me, as Kant?

But I think he was confirmed wasn't he? How solid is the confirmation?

Budda asked him to vig kill him, and lone behold, budda died that night in addition to the mafia kill. I doubt mafia would kill budda knowing he was beloved princess just because he asked them too. It's not a confirmation, but its a pretty good indicator that he is town. Also his role works similar to ours.

Also, what is this reasoning to lynch royal? That she's the miller? That she hasn't been hammered?
Sounds bogus to me...

My main FOS comes from DP5. Her explanation behind lynching IFLY even though she thought he was town was pretty bogus (you can read it at the end of that DP if you want).
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/22/2013 7:23:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 7:11:04 PM, TUF wrote:
At 1/22/2013 7:04:25 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I still don't buy OneE. He is a three shot delayed joat with two of the same as abilities as me, as Kant?

But I think he was confirmed. wasn't he? How solid is the confirmation?

Budda asked him to vig kill him, and lone behold, budda died that night in addition to the mafia kill. I doubt mafia would kill budda knowing he was beloved princess just because he asked them too. It's not a confirmation, but its a pretty good indicator that he is town. Also his role works similar to ours.

Also, what is this reasoning to lynch royal? That she's the miller? That she hasn't been hammered?
Sounds bogus to me...

My main FOS comes from DP5. Her explanation behind lynching IFLY even though she thought he was town was pretty bogus (you can read it at the end of that DP if you want).

Ok, this game is going to take some serious rereading. I'm determined to make myself useful.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
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1/22/2013 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 7:23:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Ok, this game is going to take some serious rereading. I'm determined to make myself useful.

That would be apprecative. This game is moving at a drudgingly slow pace because no one wants to add much input. You a better player and can probably help out quite a bit in this trifling situation. I think you've been shut up most of the game because of the immense FOS on you, but I wouldn't let that stop you from being active.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
OneElephant
Posts: 1,056
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1/22/2013 11:16:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 7:04:25 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I still don't buy OneE. He is a three shot delayed joat with two of the same as abilities as me, as Kant?

But I think he was confirmed wasn't he? How solid is the confirmation?

Please. I claimed that my role was redundant as soon as I saw the first JOAT die. Plus, I claimed after you - if I were mafia, I would pick roles that aren't redundant because I know that redundant roles are scummy.

It's ironic that you don't buy my role. If anything, I'm the one who should be suspicious of you. Technically, I counterclaimed you plus I'm more confirmed than you. I dunno man, I'm not trying to threaten you with OMGUS and I do think it's important that players actively out their reads but your self-assurance is starting to annoy me, especially because of your almost consistent anti-town behavior throughout the game.
OneElephant
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1/22/2013 11:18:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm going to sit on my vote for a bit. I hope other players take the time to make a careful decision as well before jumping onto Royal's wagon, as tempting as it may be.
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/23/2013 1:05:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here is a deeper FOS analysis on FOS of royal, after gonig through each of the DP'es. I also have started to accrue a bigger FOS on sarcastic, but I want him to out his results before I go on about him.

Let's start from the beginning shall we?

Royals FOS on TV.

She brings this up. Constantly. Whenver she votes him the first thing she says is "vtl tv for the reasons I brought up earlier". Up until now I have been too lazy to go and look for them, but I finally did, and found them here, when Royal first replaced daytonna.

http://www.debate.org...

Right off the bat, she asks if someone could give her a summary. If she is asking for a summary, then she obviously doesn't know what it going on right? But in that same posts she votes Niwsa (I think she meant to vote TV, as she changed her vote in her next post). Still, why would you vote someone after JUST asking for a summary?

She than said this: "TV, why were you inactive until people started voting for you? I doubt that you just magically decided to start participating at that moment."

This ladies, and gentleman, is Royal's grand post in where she apaprently keeps tabbing TV. She FOS'ed him orginally because of "inactivity". No other reason. It was only until later when I called her out on her other FOS'es, that she brung up all the reasons that drafter, and everyone else had been pursuing her for.

This indicates to me two things.

1: She asked for an update from the town to give the appearance of needing to get caught up. But she already knew TV was on the hotseat probably because the mafia already told her he was their mis-lynch target, so she voted him instantly. She took literally no time to judge anyone else's behavior, or try to deduce who else could be scum. She had TV in her sights, and settled for him the entire time, because that is what the mafia were going for.

2. She actually has no idea why she voted for TV, and is just bandwagoning, and defending her vote on him, because she doesn't like being called a bandwagoner.

It could be two, in which case I am dis-appointed in her town play, but I am leaning on 1 right now.

Here's her next post: http://www.debate.org...

She instantly FOS'es sarcastic for "deflecting" a TV lynch. The funny thing is, she still hadn't explained why she FOS'ed TV other than him being inactive. So I am wondering why a TV lynch is so important to her, if she hadn't even mentioned 1 other reason at that point to FOS TV. Why wouldn't someone want to deflect a lynch on TV for that reasoning lol?

This is basically a scum slip.

The IFLY situation

I also noticed How royal was in constant defense of IFLY the entire time. Even right after he had claimed he lied, and that he was a survivor. She consistently believed him, not even shedding a shadow of a doubt.

http://www.debate.org...

This behavior doesn't make sense for a townie (who naturally should question IFLY for his lie), or a mafia who would jump at the oppertunity for a mis-lynch.

She knwe IFLY was town (or she thought she did, knowing he wasn't in the mafia PM). She thought that by saving IFLY after he is lynched, could more or less confirm her as town, and pin FOS on me (who she believed to be "leading the lynch"). This theory is further confirmed, by her instant vote on IFLY after sarcastic and drafterman voted for IFLY.

RIGHT AFTER that vote, Danielle comes on and announces his "innocence". Royal in her VERY next post, tries pinning the blame on me!

Naturally, I questioned why she voted for IFLY if she thought he was town.

This is her response: "Nobody was moving the DP along and nobody believed my analysis on IFLYHIGH "

http://www.debate.org...

This is possibly the scummiest behavior out of her the whole game. She voted for someone she sincerely believed was town (almost every post out of her that DP, had to do with protecting IFLY, not even FOS'ing TV lol).

After all that defense, she just instantly votes IFLY? You would think that if you knew someone was town, and about to be lynched, and the DP was running out of time, that you would want the DP to end in a No lynch.

Not for royal, who wanted a mis-lynch, and hoped for a second one on me, after IFLY flipped inno (which thankfully he didn't).

Royal, by far seems the scummiest to me. She could be town. She could really be the miller. But I have more reason to cast a vote on her than anyone else right now. I know that she is "guilty". There is no way to ever confirm her, and keeping her around is a liability, especially in accordance with her behavior in this game. I think Royal makes the most logical and reasonable lynch target for this DP.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/23/2013 1:50:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
BTW that wasn't for royal ro respond too, you can if you want (I probably won't respond to her if she does though, as I don't feel like insults, and flame war. Plus it's ridiculous to try and convince the person you find scummy, that they are scum, they will always have a rebuttal).

I will adress posts from anyone else though, if you wish to discuss my theory on royal. Also I want to look further into leafrods behavior in this game as well.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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1/23/2013 2:54:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm gonna go and agree with TUF. HIs analysis makes sense, and we really have no better leads...

So yeah... VTL Royal
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
OneElephant
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1/23/2013 3:55:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 3:22:06 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I got mo results this np, I visited drafter.

Can you out all of you night actions? Why did you visit Drafter, anyway?
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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1/23/2013 4:18:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 3:55:26 PM, OneElephant wrote:
At 1/23/2013 3:22:06 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I got mo results this np, I visited drafter.

Can you out all of you night actions? Why did you visit Drafter, anyway?

I am unable to list them all now, but I've outed all of them. Just go back and you'll see. I visited drafter because TUF told someone to do it and because I am generally unsure about him this game. You had a better night action in mind?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/23/2013 5:00:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This game is fun to watch. Don't read into that. Or that.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.