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PHILOSOPHER Mafia: END GAME

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/27/2013 11:56:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let me know if there are any questions on night actions.

1st Place: Mafia
2nd Place: Town
3rd Place: 3P Survivor


WINNERS:
Leafrod, Chicken, socialpinko, SarcasticIndeed, FourTrouble, drafter2


Some Points On Game Dynamics


With 6 mafioso in a game of 20, that was roughly 30% - a high number, but still within traditional standards of the 1/3 - 1/5 ratio. Due to the nature of the theme, I decided to give the mafia a few advantages.

I switched just one role - otherwise they were all randomly assigned ahead of time according to number. Initially socialpinko was supposed to be town, but I made him mafia on purpose. Had he been town, this game would have been SO EASY. Honestly, I am SHOCKED that nobody read more into the philosophy aspect of the game. Had that been done, I think the game would have went entirely differently in favor of the town.

Full disclosure: I gave the mafia one final hint. I told them that 3 philosophers I did not use in the game included Nietzsche, Heraclitus, and Hume. These were not necessarily "safe" fake claims, but they could use them if they wanted to. Three of them still had to come up with claims of their own. Because of the fact that philosophers I like and philosophies I appreciate can easily be found or figured out, I thought that the theme was inherently pro-town. I had totally forgotten about the thread from 3+ years ago that said Nietzsche was among my favorite philosophers because he isn't any longer (but I thought that would be a good Bulletproof claim, especially after dragging up that thread). I'm surprised Leafrod, the Godfather, claimed Vanilla instead. Why would my favorite philosopher be vanilla...?

I'm sad that F16 and tvellalott weren't active in this game. I was counting on them to be more observant in terms of philosophers. I'm certain that I've mentioned Diogenes of Sinope as one of my favorite Greek philosophers, and his role made perfect sense as miller - so that's an easily "confirmable" townie. As an anarchist and a leftist, I thought it was VERY well known on DDO that Noam Chomsky is one of my faves. As the bomb, his role isn't as "confirmable" but that is a strong character claim. Voltaireyne de Cleyre is another fave, and makes sense as the vigilante which is a role you can prove. These are all things spinko would have picked up on had he been town. Looking back, I should have left him that way.

Sartre as a vanilla makes sense; I also gave this character the hint that he was linked to another character in the game. It is EXTREMELY obvious to anyone who bothered to look up this philosopher that said counterpart would be Simone de Beauvoir. I figured that these 2 townies would somehow confirm each other. Daniel Dennett as the cop is an easy claim/townie assessment.

The 2 things I threw into the mix were Ayn Rand as BP Survivor, and the multiple JOATs. As for Ayn Rand, I do think Objectivism as a moral standard is a pretty solid theory despite not being a fan of her politics. Because most philosophers think otherwise, I decided to make her 3P and her ideology made her a perfect Survivor. Because Ayn Rand truly thinks she is a perfectly moral and righteous being, I didn't want the player to know that they were actually non-town. Her philosophy isn't bad (mafia) but definitely individualistic.

As for the multiple JOATs, this came from one of my theme ideas called JOAT Mafia where everyone was a JOAT, including the mafia (except everyone would have different abilities). The only way to catch a guilty would be based on a hunch from their game play, or catching them lying about what they were doing during the night. The entire game would be about coordinating night actions. I realized that this was probably a bad idea, but I included 4 in this game. I did so because many philosophers are extremely versatile hence the JOAT role. I thought that would be figured out after the first JOAT died and their versatility was explained as the reason for their role. All of the JOAT philosophers are known for specializing in multiple fields: Kant, Karl Popper, Bertrand Russel and

Tough? Yes, BUT, based on the philosophers in question (I appreciate them all) I didn't think it would be that mind-blowing. It was obviously meant to be a little confusing, but at the same time they could in a way maybe confirm each other as we saw with TUF and tvellalott. Kant was an iffy character because I have indeed mentioned his material as boring; however, as a philosopher he is indisputably among the most important and influential. In terms of how strong they were, that was based on how much I like them or rather the impact that I've think they made on the field. As for why Kant was a delayed JOAT, refer to his role description.

All in all, it can be argued that the mafia was over-powered; however, the slightest effort by townies to read into the theme would have EASILY balanced out the game. Nobody did a lick of research into their character (it seemed) to justify their role. The fact that nobody made the connection between Sartre and Beauvoir was more than a little disappointing and indicative of the obvious lack of effort. Most disappointing of all was the complete lack of activity. I apologize if the theme was just oh so boring, but I'm really not sure why nobody made the slightest effort to play right off the bat. I think it coulda been really fun.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/27/2013 12:07:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Remaining Characters

tvellalott: You are Karl Popper, a town JOAT. You are generally regarded as one of the greatest philosophers of science. You also wrote extensively on social and political philosophy. Your vast influence as well as diversification of knowledge, including in fields such as epistimology, philosophy of mind, rationality, logic, metaphyics, etc. is what makes you a JOAT. You have a 2x ability from any of the following night actions: 1-shot doctor (protection) ability that cannot be used on yourself, 1-shot watcher ability, 1-shot bus driver, 1-shot role blocker. You win with the town.

TUF2: You are Bertrand Russell, a town JOAT. Your work has had a considerable influence on logic, mathematics, set theory, linguistics, computer science, and philosophy - especially philosophy of language, epistemology, and metaphysics. Your versaility in so many areas is what makes you a JOAT. You have a 2x ability from any of the following night actions to be used on any 2 nights of your choice: 1-shot alignment investigation, 1-shot bulletproof, 1-shot watcher ability, 1-shot tracker ability. You win with the town.

OneElephant: You are Immanuel Kant, a town JOAT. You've written important works on ethics, religion, law, aesthetics, astronomy, and history. However, there was a period known as the "Silent Decade" in which you isolated yourself from everyone in order to reexamine and perfect your philosophy. When you emerged from isolation, you produced one of your most important works. You have been incredibly influential. As such, you will have no abilities from the start of the game through NP4 while you are in your "silent time." Starting on NP5, you will be a 3x JOAT who can choose (one per night) from any of the following abilities: 1-shot bulletproof, 1-shot vigilante kill, 1-shot role blocker, 1-shot bus driver, 1-shot doctor (protection) ability that cannot be used on yourself. You win with the town.

drafter2: You are Confucius, a mafia ninja. For the most part, a lot of Eastern philosophy is pretty lulz. Sure, it's interesting to think about, and you're good at distracting people despite rarely relying on a reasoned argument. You're sneaky and Asian, so your night actions will go undected by others and get around others' roles all together (eg. night kills). You win with the mafia.

SarcasticIndeed:
You are Rene Descartes, a mafia dreamer. You have many flawed arguments, including but not limited to cogito ergo sum, your perceptions on dualism, something about an evil demon who manipulates your reality, etc, You're also known for the postulation that the senses we trust to distinguish reality from illusion should not be fully trusted. That's a good point, however, there are just too many flaws in your other ideologies (eg. Catholocism, free will, etc.) and thus you are guilty of overall bad reasoning, and win with the mafia. Despite not trusting your perception of reality to the fullest extent, your focus on the dream argument gives you a unique power that allows you to utilize lucid dreams during the NP. Each night, you may track another player and see who, if anyone, they visit while you're "dreaming" (tracking) their night actions. However, if some evil demon manipulates you during the night... or rather, you are distracted for any reason (such as being visited by any other player during that night for any reason), you will not be able to use your role power that night.

Leafrod:
St. Thomas Aquinas -- I have his role description on my other computer lol but basically he is the #1 most annoying and/or worst religious philosopher IMO. All of the mafia characters were religious.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/27/2013 12:08:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
yeah, totally couldve analyzed the philosophy more like in socials game. I wanted to do so the dp before i died, but ran out if time yto do so. I assume responsibility for this town loss
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/27/2013 12:10:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I called out Drafter and leafrod at the end. Once I got past TUF honing on me for no reason, I knew it was Leaf because he was just lurking and posting fluff and drafter because he was just trying to lynch anybody.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/27/2013 1:06:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 12:10:24 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I called out Drafter and leafrod at the end. Once I got past TUF honing on me for no reason, I knew it was Leaf because he was just lurking and posting fluff and drafter because he was just trying to lynch anybody.

Yes, you called us out. To be fair, I had been tunneling on TV for three day phases. If you had actually lynched him, I probably would have been at a lose to justify a lynch on anyone else. Leaving TV alive basically gave me something to focus on each phase without having to worry about faking an FOS on anyone else and possibly needing to bus a team mate.

Also, Chicken wasn't supposed to hammer johnny.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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1/27/2013 2:33:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry I was really inactive this game. It was the winter break and I couldn't do more than post a couple of phone posts in TV's game during that time. This seemed like a really fun game and I'll probably read it at some point and use it for meta purposes on the players in the game.
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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1/27/2013 2:46:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was going to claim bulletproof with Nietzsche, but then someone else did (or drafter said not to, or something). There was some reason.

Why did our kill on OneElephant during the last night phase not go through?
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/27/2013 4:23:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah that was a tough game.

I could have done better. I had a feeling about leaf and drafter, but the problem was I really didn't have a whole lot of evidence to support a lynch on them until it was too late (when sarcastic gave his night actions).

Mafia won by letting the town tear each other apart, and lurking. I had a feeling drafter was mafai because of this (he is usually really proactive as town), and this time around he would vote for TV pretty carelessly. Leafrod I didn't want to lynch mainly because of his damn character. I honestly believed Nietchze would be in the game, but I never guessed as a fake claim.

The lynch on royal, was basically all I felt we could really do last DP, because there wasn't a whole lot of evidence on anyone, and very little behavioral analysis that could do enough for me to lead a lynch.

I do think the mafia was rather large, plus a TP, but the mafia still played relatively well. Good job guys.

The lynch on Johnny worked out as I had hoped, but didn't exactly go as planned due to inactivity, but it still somehow worked out to get us a mafia.

mafia has some solid character and role claims though, (like chicken for example).

IDK. I don't want to say town was underpowered, but... This game definitely was a challenge.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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1/27/2013 4:25:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Regrets:

Last DP, being too wuss to FOS drafter
Poorly orchestrated lynch on johnny to hit a mafia member

Things I am glad I did:

Saved TV from a lynch
help lynch IFLY
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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1/27/2013 4:26:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only thing I am surprised about is

1) Mafia was so large. I thought given Social's role, mafia would be four people max.

2) TUF was town.

3) Chicken was mafia.
TUF
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1/27/2013 4:37:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 4:26:45 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
The only thing I am surprised about is
2) TUF was town.

Because I was 1 of 4 JOATS, and because I FOS'ed you?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
IFLYHIGH
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1/27/2013 4:47:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 4:37:54 PM, TUF wrote:
At 1/27/2013 4:26:45 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
The only thing I am surprised about is
2) TUF was town.

Because I was 1 of 4 JOATS, and because I FOS'ed you?

Nope and nope. I knew I was scummy and I didn't FOS anybody just because they doubted my claim. On that note, I didn't really like the secret win condition I had. I would have played a bit different if I knew I won with myself, but w/e.
TUF
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1/27/2013 4:55:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 4:47:16 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
At 1/27/2013 4:37:54 PM, TUF wrote:
At 1/27/2013 4:26:45 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
The only thing I am surprised about is
2) TUF was town.

Because I was 1 of 4 JOATS, and because I FOS'ed you?

Nope and nope. I knew I was scummy and I didn't FOS anybody just because they doubted my claim. On that note, I didn't really like the secret win condition I had. I would have played a bit different if I knew I won with myself, but w/e.

I agree. I would be pissed if I had a secret win condition like that.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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1/27/2013 7:07:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I apologise for not being helpful in this game. Philosophy is not a strong subject for me. I tried to do some analysis (Kant) and no one payed any attention to it. Coupled with falling behind due to spouts of inactivity and being constantly FOS'd by half the players the whole game for a simple mistake and you have a less than useful tv. Mafia hid themselves well too.

Props to TUF who backed me up the whole game.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
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1/27/2013 7:40:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 7:34:55 PM, drafterman wrote:
One thing that should have set off alarms is the fact that I so readily voted during LYLO.

It did, kind of, but I didn't see anything that I could have actually used to convince the town to lynch you. All I could use was petty behavior analysis that you are inactive, and had been pushing for TV's lynch from the beginning. I felt trying to risk pushing a lynch on you would backfire on me, and get me lynched, so I decided to go with royal (who I was hoping was mafia, though I admittadly had doubts). It seemed like the best idea at the time.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/27/2013 10:05:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Looking back I do think the town was under-powered for sure, but that's because I thought the character claims would be so obvious. I was really wrong about that. It's just that Voltaire de Cleyre was my FB picture and timeline cover photo. I mean... come on. I love her. And like I said, Noam Chomsky I reference ALL the time on this site - so I thought people would buy that claim. Plus, the bomb could kill mafia (which it did). Like I said I thought the Diogenes claim was pretty solid (I know I've mentioned him as a fave before). Sartre and Beauvoir could have and should have confirmed each other. Some of the JOATs could have confirmed each other or rather delayed their night actions to put them to better use... I dunno. I feel like there were only a few opportunities for mislynches (maybe on Kant and Popper) plus I figured the cop would investigate a guilty, which they didn't.

@ Leafrod, good point about someone else claiming BP. I didn't think about that. Nietzsche as BP woulda made sense though given his "Ubrmenschen" philosophy (superhuman). The reason One didn't die when targeted by the mafia is because he used his 1-shot ability to make himself BP that night.

@ IFLY, I understand what you're saying about your secret win condition of winning alone vs. winning with the town. I didn't think you would play differently because why would anyone not want to try and survive (especially when you're BP), but I understand where you're coming from. That was probably a crappy twist, but at least your win condition was only having to be alive at the end of the game vs. being the only one left alive which I've seen some mods do (and I think that sucks).
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Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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1/27/2013 10:46:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everything was perfect for me. 100% of the people in game thought I was town, then the bomb shows up. I VTL with the hope that someone would VTL before the DP was over (I was ready to TAKE AWAY my vote) Then TUF puts his vote in, or so I thought. I stupidly looked and said "Ok He dies, free double-townie kill?" Then Danielle kills me, and I realize, TUF didn't actually save me... If I had been the real Doc like the town thought I was, then town sucks. They would've lost their real doc. It was definitely poor play + Underpowered Town. (Also an extremely dumb assumption by me)
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