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USDDO: Tangible Currency & Mint Act

ConservativeAmerican
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3/13/2013 8:45:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am new to USDDO, So I do not know if I am allowed to propose legislation, if not I will just use this for citizens and try to get a politician to endorse it.

Introduction Article:

To my knowledge, the current USDDO has no currency that we are aware of, I would like to enact a bill that would:

- Set up a hard currency that would place a real value on items in the country.

- Set up a mint that would print a controlled amount of currency

- Use some sort of precious, but abundant resource that would back our currency, so it stays valuable

- Allow the possibility for a central bank, but it must be exaggerated that this bill does not propose a central bank, but it will leave the option if the people eventually want it.

- Set up a group of elected board members that would distribute this money to the fed, the federal government will then decide what to do with it and how people can earn this money.

Article I: Currency

The USDDO to my knowledge currently lacks a hard currency. I would for the USDDO to set up a controlled currency that would place a value on items, it would also give the fed real power, because once they fairly distribute this currency to the populous, they can then tax it and have an official budget for government works and projects (they currently have no such thing to my knowledge). This currency will be called a 'Credit'. Credits will be the official currency, with a credit you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market.

Article II: USDDO Mint

Since this credit must be tangible, the USDDO will set up a mint that will print this currency, the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market. The mint will be controlled by a small board, there will be six members, three will be elected by the general populous, three will be elected by the USDDO Congress, they will control the distribution of USDDO Credits under minor governmental supervision.

Article III: Gold Standard

Considering there is a relatively small populous at the moment, this currency necessitates a precious metal to back the currency, to prevent hyperinflation. This precious metal will be gold. There current value of all the world's gold is at about $1.89 trillion. Roughly $14 billion is produced yearly. For all intents and purposes, we will say the USDDO controls 10% of the world's gold ($189 billion). Meaning the USDDO government has officially acquired 189 billion credits when this bill is enacted. The USDDO government will be forced to distribute 85%-90% of the credits to the private market, and will be able to keep the rest for public works projects and the military. Taxation on the private market will fluctuate and not be specified here.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth. All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Article VI: Stock Market Clause

This piece of legislation does not create a stock market, but leaves the possibility for one.

Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

With these new acts, we will need to have actual items that make this tangible currency worth something. To do this we will allow the creation of corporations. USDDO'ers may apply to own a corporation via the Board of Monetary Distribution, to apply you will say the product you will be creating, the capital you need, and the amount of credits you need to start. To prevent the abuse of power, the Monetary Distributions will only be able to give up to 200,000 credits for a corporation, but has to give at least 20,000.
ConservativeAmerican
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3/13/2013 8:48:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 8:45:02 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I am new to USDDO, So I do not know if I am allowed to propose legislation, if not I will just use this for citizens and try to get a politician to endorse it.

Introduction Article:

To my knowledge, the current USDDO has no currency that we are aware of, I would like to enact a bill that would:

- Set up a hard currency that would place a real value on items in the country.

- Set up a mint that would print a controlled amount of currency

- Use some sort of precious, but abundant resource that would back our currency, so it stays valuable

- Allow the possibility for a central bank, but it must be exaggerated that this bill does not propose a central bank, but it will leave the option if the people eventually want it.

- Set up a group of elected board members that would distribute this money to the fed, the federal government will then decide what to do with it and how people can earn this money.

Article I: Currency

The USDDO to my knowledge currently lacks a hard currency. I would for the USDDO to set up a controlled currency that would place a value on items, it would also give the fed real power, because once they fairly distribute this currency to the populous, they can then tax it and have an official budget for government works and projects (they currently have no such thing to my knowledge). This currency will be called a 'Credit'. Credits will be the official currency, with a credit you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market.

Article II: USDDO Mint

Since this credit must be tangible, the USDDO will set up a mint that will print this currency, the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market. The mint will be controlled by a small board, there will be six members, three will be elected by the general populous, three will be elected by the USDDO Congress, they will control the distribution of USDDO Credits under minor governmental supervision.

Article III: Gold Standard

Considering there is a relatively small populous at the moment, this currency necessitates a precious metal to back the currency, to prevent hyperinflation. This precious metal will be gold. There current value of all the world's gold is at about $1.89 trillion. Roughly $14 billion is produced yearly. For all intents and purposes, we will say the USDDO controls 10% of the world's gold ($189 billion). Meaning the USDDO government has officially acquired 189 billion credits when this bill is enacted. The USDDO government will be forced to distribute 85%-90% of the credits to the private market, and will be able to keep the rest for public works projects and the military. Taxation on the private market will fluctuate and not be specified here. This article has been edited at 9:50 PM by the OP, The USDDO government, owning 10% of the gold will also produce an extra 1.4 billion a year in gold, considering at the moment 14 billion a year is discovered.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth. All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Article VI: Stock Market Clause

This piece of legislation does not create a stock market, but leaves the possibility for one.

Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

With these new acts, we will need to have actual items that make this tangible currency worth something. To do this we will allow the creation of corporations. USDDO'ers may apply to own a corporation via the Board of Monetary Distribution, to apply you will say the product you will be creating, the capital you need, and the amount of credits you need to start. To prevent the abuse of power, the Monetary Distributions will only be able to give up to 200,000 credits for a corporation, but has to give at least 20,000.

Edit
ConservativeAmerican
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3/13/2013 8:53:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 8:51:43 PM, BigSky wrote:
Put the link to this in the main feed so imabench can see it.

Do you like it?

Also, is the main feed the original USDDO thread that FREEDO made?
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/13/2013 8:56:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 8:53:02 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/13/2013 8:51:43 PM, BigSky wrote:
Put the link to this in the main feed so imabench can see it.

Do you like it?

Also, is the main feed the original USDDO thread that FREEDO made?

I like it, go to USDDO 2
daytonanerd
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3/13/2013 9:05:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I sort of like the idea. The economic policies I hope to initiate in my state, I think will fit the hard currency plan.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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3/13/2013 10:52:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Okay... here is my thought:

1) I love it

2) I am a very good drawer(you gotta trust me here bro)

3) Can I draw a few designs for concept art, scan and upload them, and then we vote on them?
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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3/13/2013 11:09:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 8:45:02 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I am new to USDDO, So I do not know if I am allowed to propose legislation, if not I will just use this for citizens and try to get a politician to endorse it.

If you want to join you just say in teh main thread "I join the DDO Congress" and put that in bold.

I looked over your proposal and theres a lot of problems I have with it, ill go through each one one by one

Article I: Currency

The USDDO to my knowledge currently lacks a hard currency. I would for the USDDO to set up a controlled currency that would place a value on items, it would also give the fed real power, because once they fairly distribute this currency to the populous, they can then tax it and have an official budget for government works and projects (they currently have no such thing to my knowledge). This currency will be called a 'Credit'. Credits will be the official currency, with a credit you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market.

Is there any chance that instead of 'credits' we can name it 'Ima's'? This isnt a real problem I have with the bill though i was just wondering

Article II: USDDO Mint

Since this credit must be tangible, the USDDO will set up a mint that will print this currency, the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market. The mint will be controlled by a small board, there will be six members, three will be elected by the general populous, three will be elected by the USDDO Congress, they will control the distribution of USDDO Credits under minor governmental supervision.

Ok that I have a problem with, for a couple of reasons

1) There is no general populous to begin with, its just Congress.
2) The DDO Congress operates in an idealized scenario, meaning every act and law they pass are carried out with maximum efficiency and produce the best outcome automatically, so I dont see the point in creating some board of advisers to control something that wont cause any issues
3) I have a massive policy in not creating useless positions that would ultimately waste Congress's time, and appointing 6 or even 3 congressmen to this board or whatever sounds like a massive waste of time for no real reason...

Article III: Gold Standard

Considering there is a relatively small populous at the moment, this currency necessitates a precious metal to back the currency, to prevent hyperinflation. This precious metal will be gold. There current value of all the world's gold is at about $1.89 trillion. Roughly $14 billion is produced yearly. For all intents and purposes, we will say the USDDO controls 10% of the world's gold ($189 billion). Meaning the USDDO government has officially acquired 189 billion credits when this bill is enacted. The USDDO government will be forced to distribute 85%-90% of the credits to the private market, and will be able to keep the rest for public works projects and the military. Taxation on the private market will fluctuate and not be specified here.

ok two things:
1) I dont know enough about the gold standard and its effects to have an opinion over it, but I do know that a gold standard can be a very very divisive issues, and it alone could kill this bill. We can always create a gold standard later and apply it to our currency, but I think it would be best if we take this out just for now otherwise it may cause some people to vote against the bill, and kill it

2) Youre getting terribly detailed about this whole thing when you dont need to, and thats all just going to lead to a sh*tload of problems and cause some to be against the bill. The USoDDO operates in an idealized world that we havent really even specified is similar to the one we live in now, or if its just in its own alternative universe or something. Everything you said after "this precious metal will be gold" should probably be deleted if you want me to sign this bill (assuming it gets passed by Congress)

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Again, we dont have a general populous... And bringing in the national debt into this bill may causemroe people to be against it and ultimately not vote for the bill, so I think this part should be taken out. A central bank and policy against the national debt can always be hammered out later, and its not a good idea to tackle so many divisive issue in legislation meant mostly to just create a national currency.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth.

Yeah no, I would veto any bill with such a radical proposal no matter what the rest of it may contain.

All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Youre getting way too specific and detailed about this whole thing when it really, really, really doesnt have to be. Also giving out 10,000 credits to every person in the USoDDO can become a problem real fast considering that the current population is just north of 100 million.

The board members also needs to be taken out otherwise you can expect a swift veto from me.

Article VI: Stock Market Clause

This piece of legislation does not create a stock market, but leaves the possibility for one.

Why is this necessary exactly? We can simply assume that a stock market already exists we dont have to specify that we will create one through legislation later

Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

With these new acts, we will need to have actual items that make this tangible currency worth something. To do this we will allow the creation of corporations. USDDO'ers may apply to own a corporation via the Board of Monetary Distribution, to apply you will say the product you will be creating, the capital you need, and the amount of credits you need to start. To prevent the abuse of power, the Monetary Distributions will only be able to give up to 200,000 credits for a corporation, but has to give at least 20,000.

Again, way too damn detailed when it really doesnt have to be, and giving the government so much freaking authority over trivial matters is an easy way to cause people to veto this bill when all that it should be doing is creating a national currency.

My Advice: Youre trying to address a sh*tload of issues with just one bill and do so in a matter that a lot of people would be against, including myself. Focus on just creating a national currency and how the currency is minted, and once that is passed then other issues like a gold standard should be addressed later.
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Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 6:58:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago




I looked over your proposal and theres a lot of problems I have with it, ill go through each one one by one

Article I: Currency

The USDDO to my knowledge currently lacks a hard currency. I would for the USDDO to set up a controlled currency that would place a value on items, it would also give the fed real power, because once they fairly distribute this currency to the populous, they can then tax it and have an official budget for government works and projects (they currently have no such thing to my knowledge). This currency will be called a 'Credit'. Credits will be the official currency, with a credit you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market.

Is there any chance that instead of 'credits' we can name it 'Ima's'? This isnt a real problem I have with the bill though i was just wondering

I used credits because it's a general name that no one could reasonably disagree with (except you I guess, xP)

Article II: USDDO Mint

Since this credit must be tangible, the USDDO will set up a mint that will print this currency, the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market. The mint will be controlled by a small board, there will be six members, three will be elected by the general populous, three will be elected by the USDDO Congress, they will control the distribution of USDDO Credits under minor governmental supervision.

Ok that I have a problem with, for a couple of reasons

1) There is no general populous to begin with, its just Congress.

Every country has a general populous, that just means the regular citizenry that hold no governmental power.

2) The DDO Congress operates in an idealized scenario, meaning every act and law they pass are carried out with maximum efficiency and produce the best outcome automatically, so I dont see the point in creating some board of advisers to control something that wont cause any issues

We need a small board of people who mint our money, otherwise the gov't could create a trillion dollars out of thin air.

3) I have a massive policy in not creating useless positions that would ultimately waste Congress's time, and appointing 6 or even 3 congressmen to this board or whatever sounds like a massive waste of time for no real reason... See above

Article III: Gold Standard

Considering there is a relatively small populous at the moment, this currency necessitates a precious metal to back the currency, to prevent hyperinflation. This precious metal will be gold. There current value of all the world's gold is at about $1.89 trillion. Roughly $14 billion is produced yearly. For all intents and purposes, we will say the USDDO controls 10% of the world's gold ($189 billion). Meaning the USDDO government has officially acquired 189 billion credits when this bill is enacted. The USDDO government will be forced to distribute 85%-90% of the credits to the private market, and will be able to keep the rest for public works projects and the military. Taxation on the private market will fluctuate and not be specified here.

ok two things:
1) I dont know enough about the gold standard and its effects to have an opinion over it, but I do know that a gold standard can be a very very divisive issues, and it alone could kill this bill. We can always create a gold standard later and apply it to our currency, but I think it would be best if we take this out just for now otherwise it may cause some people to vote against the bill, and kill it

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

2) I have to be detailed, otherwise there will be clauses that people can take advantage of in it.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Again, we dont have a general populous... And bringing in the national debt into this bill may causemroe people to be against it and ultimately not vote for the bill, so I think this part should be taken out.

It leaves the option to take on national debt, it doesn't allow the gov't to atm, seems pretty fair and moderate to me.

A central bank and policy against the national debt can always be hammered out later, and its not a good idea to tackle so many divisive issue in legislation meant mostly to just create a national currency.

I leave the option for it to be hammered out later with my bill.


Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth.

Yeah no, I would veto any bill with such a radical proposal no matter what the rest of it may contain.

I agree w/ you on this, I will edit the bill so it is more controlled and balanced on who manages the citizenry's net worth.

All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Youre getting way too specific and detailed about this whole thing when it really, really, really doesnt have to be. Also giving out 10,000 credits to every person in the USoDDO can become a problem real fast considering that the current population is just north of 100 million.

You're right, but the currency has to be distributed somehow, does it not?

The board members also needs to be taken out otherwise you can expect a swift veto from me.

I will cut some of them, but I still stand strong on the fact that we need a small group of people to manage this money.

Article VI: Stock Market Clause

This piece of legislation does not create a stock market, but leaves the possibility for one.



Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

With these new acts, we will need to have actual items that make this tangible currency worth something. To do this we will allow the creation of corporations. USDDO'ers may apply to own a corporation via the Board of Monetary Distribution, to apply you will say the product you will be creating, the capital you need, and the amount of credits you need to start. To prevent the abuse of power, the Monetary Distributions will only be able to give up to 200,000 credits for a corporation, but has to give at least 20,000.

Again, way too damn detailed when it really doesnt have to be, and giving the government so much freaking authority over trivial matters is an easy way to cause people to veto this bill when all that it should be doing is creating a national currency.

Any suggestion as a way to edit it so the gov't doesn't get all the power? If you can come up w/ something I will use it so you pass the bill.

Youre trying to address a sh*tload of issues with just one bill and do so in a matter that a lot of people would be against, including myself. Focus on just creating a national currency and how the currency is minted, and once that is passed then other issues like a
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 7:03:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Overall bench, I will edit a few of the clauses, but I will not gut the whole bill to appease one person, even if it means you veto it, congress can still override it with a 2/3 vote, can they not? It is nothing against you, it's just that I will not back down on certain issues in the bill.

I will for sure back down on myself being the only person to manage assets.

I will use some other precious metal if need be to back the currency, but some sort of precious metal needs to be used to back the currency or it's worthless.

I will presume there is already a stock market and cross out Article VI.

The others I will think on and see what my party thinks.
imabench
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3/14/2013 9:19:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
1) There is no general populous to begin with, its just Congress.

Every country has a general populous, that just means the regular citizenry that hold no governmental power.

But we dont have that either, there is literally no regular citizenry who dont have any power in government.

2) The DDO Congress operates in an idealized scenario, meaning every act and law they pass are carried out with maximum efficiency and produce the best outcome automatically, so I dont see the point in creating some board of advisers to control something that wont cause any issues

We need a small board of people who mint our money, otherwise the gov't could create a trillion dollars out of thin air.

Congress runs in an idealized 'perfect=world' scenario where only the best possible outcome happens after every law is passed, and does so every time. Creating a board of advisers or something to counter a problem that doesnt even exist is therefore useless.

Article III: Gold Standard

1) I dont know enough about the gold standard and its effects to have an opinion over it, but I do know that a gold standard can be a very very divisive issues, and it alone could kill this bill. We can always create a gold standard later and apply it to our currency, but I think it would be best if we take this out just for now otherwise it may cause some people to vote against the bill, and kill it

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

Thats not necessarily true though. The Dollar and the Euro arent backed up against anything yet they are some of the strongest currencies in the world.

I have to be detailed, otherwise there will be clauses that people can take advantage of in it.

Some detail is required yes, but youre going absolutely overboard with it when you really dont need to. Plus I dont see how someone can 'take advantage' of the currency being backed up to gold for that matter.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Again, we dont have a general populous... And bringing in the national debt into this bill may cause moee people to be against it and ultimately not vote for the bill, so I think this part should be taken out.

It leaves the option to take on national debt, it doesn't allow the gov't to atm, seems pretty fair and moderate to me.

It might be fair and moderate to you but you havent grasped everything about how this game works yet. There isnt a general populous like you keep claiming there is and last I checked, this bill is supposed to create a national currency and process for minting said currency, not outlaw the national debt.

A central bank and policy against the national debt can always be hammered out later, and its not a good idea to tackle so many divisive issue in legislation meant mostly to just create a national currency.

I leave the option for it to be hammered out later with my bill.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you dont have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth.

Yeah no, I would veto any bill with such a radical proposal no matter what the rest of it may contain.

I agree w/ you on this, I will edit the bill so it is more controlled and balanced on who manages the citizenry's net worth.

Your better off just removing this part of the bill completely. Frankly I dont think that any one entity should have knowledge of every last persons financial situation.

All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Youre getting way too specific and detailed about this whole thing when it really, really, really doesnt have to be. Also giving out 10,000 credits to every person in the USoDDO can become a problem real fast considering that the current population is just north of 100 million.

You're right, but the currency has to be distributed somehow, does it not?

We can simply give it to banks or create some article that outlines how people can exchange whatever currency notes they have in exchange for this national currency and then give whatever's left over to banks to circulate. It would be far simpler and straightforward then your proposal.

I will cut some of them, but I still stand strong on the fact that we need a small group of people to manage this money.

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

Any suggestion as a way to edit it so the gov't doesn't get all the power? If you can come up w/ something I will use it so you pass the bill.

The way this game works is that everything is assumed to be legal unless the government makes it illegal. Your bill though operates as if everything is illegal unless the government makes it legal which is the exact opposite of the 'reality' of this game (legislation to create a stock market?).

Its implied that citizens can already make their own businesses, so this entire article can be taken out.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
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3/14/2013 9:25:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 7:03:23 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Overall bench, I will edit a few of the clauses, but I will not gut the whole bill to appease one person, even if it means you veto it, congress can still override it with a 2/3 vote, can they not?

It actually takes 3/4ths, you need a minimum of 2/3rds just to pass the bill which is hard enough to get already with people who are inactive.

It is nothing against you, it's just that I will not back down on certain issues in the bill.

I know its not personal, this is just politics ;)

I will for sure back down on myself being the only person to manage assets.

I will use some other precious metal if need be to back the currency, but some sort of precious metal needs to be used to back the currency or it's worthless.

Thats not up to me to decide though. Thats Congress's decision to make, and frankly given that some people oppose a gold standard, your bill may not even make it to the presidential desk to be signed since it only takes a handful of people to kill a bill. Gold standard is a very divisive issue, and you may jeopardize the entire bill for something trivial that can be sorted out later.

I will presume there is already a stock market and cross out Article VI.

The others I will think on and see what my party thinks.

In my opinion, the best thing to do would be to preserve the first two articles and cut out everything else so that they can be addressed later. The point of this bill is to create a national currency and a means for circulating it and minting it, nothing else.
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ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

But we dont have that either, there is literally no regular citizenry who dont have any power in government.

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?


We need a small board of people who mint our money, otherwise the gov't could create a trillion dollars out of thin air.

Congress runs in an idealized 'perfect=world' scenario where only the best possible outcome happens after every law is passed, and does so every time. Creating a board of advisers or something to counter a problem that doesnt even exist is therefore useless.

Then this is no fun, what kind of government doesn't face adversity or problems?

Article III: Gold Standard

1) I dont know enough about the gold standard and its effects to have an opinion over it, but I do know that a gold standard can be a very very divisive issues, and it alone could kill this bill. We can always create a gold standard later and apply it to our currency, but I think it would be best if we take this out just for now otherwise it may cause some people to vote against the bill, and kill it

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

Thats not necessarily true though. The Dollar and the Euro arent backed up against anything yet they are some of the strongest currencies in the world.

In comparison to what? Exactly, they are the strongest because the government says they are the strongest, there is no other decent, non inflated currency to compare to the dollar and Euro, so they are both the best, but still over inflated and ultimately terrible. If the dollar is as strong as you claim, why has an item that has stayed pretty stable in price, copy paper, increased in price 45% since 1940?

I have to be detailed, otherwise there will be clauses that people can take advantage of in it.

Some detail is required yes, but youre going absolutely overboard with it when you really dont need to. Plus I dont see how someone can 'take advantage' of the currency being backed up to gold for that matter.

They could take advantage of it NOT being backed up, the gov't could be creating money that doesn't exist and hyperinflating our currency.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Again, we dont have a general populous... And bringing in the national debt into this bill may cause moee people to be against it and ultimately not vote for the bill, so I think this part should be taken out.

It leaves the option to take on national debt, it doesn't allow the gov't to atm, seems pretty fair and moderate to me.

It might be fair and moderate to you but you havent grasped everything about how this game works yet. There isnt a general populous like you keep claiming there is and last I checked, this bill is supposed to create a national currency and process for minting said currency, not outlaw the national debt.

It doesn't, I said it allows for debt to be created, but does not permit it.

A central bank and policy against the national debt can always be hammered out later, and its not a good idea to tackle so many divisive issue in legislation meant mostly to just create a national currency.

I leave the option for it to be hammered out later with my bill.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? I, as the creator of this bill will personally keep a document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth.

Yeah no, I would veto any bill with such a radical proposal no matter what the rest of it may contain.

I agree w/ you on this, I will edit the bill so it is more controlled and balanced on who manages the citizenry's net worth.

Your better off just removing this part of the bill completely. Frankly I dont think that any one entity should have knowledge of every last persons financial situation.

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

All USDDO citizens will automatically be given 10,000 USDDO Credits to start. You may gain more if you own a business or corporation, if you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. To apply for your 10,000 credits, simply message a board member. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, there will be 8 of them.

Youre getting way too specific and detailed about this whole thing when it really, really, really doesnt have to be. Also giving out 10,000 credits to every person in the USoDDO can become a problem real fast considering that the current population is just north of 100 million.

You're right, but the currency has to be distributed somehow, does it not?

We can simply give it to banks or create some article that outlines how people can exchange whatever currency notes they have in exchange for this national currency and then give whatever's left over to banks to circulate. It would be far simpler and straightforward then your proposal.

You're right, banks can distribute it via loans, I will edit this point.

I will cut some of them, but I still stand strong on the fact that we need a small group of people to manage this money.

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

Unless you are willing to assign a few already existent congress members to the board, I stand strong behind creating it and will gladly chat with you about it via PM.

Article VII: How to Create a Corporation

Any suggestion as a way to edit it so the gov't doesn't get all the power? If you can come up w/ something I will use it so you pass the bill.

The way this game works is that everything is assumed to be legal unless the government makes it illegal. Your bill though operates as if everything is illegal unless the government makes it legal which is the exact opposite of the 'reality' of this game (legislation to create a stock market?).

I am not outlawing corporations that don't ask for government consent, but one can get governmental assistance if they are just starting a corporation and apply for it.

Its implied that citizens can already make their own businesses, so this entire article can be taken out.

Read above.
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 1:12:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Updated Tangible Currency & Mint Act Bill:

Article I: Currency

The USDDO to my knowledge currently lacks a hard currency. I would for the USDDO to set up a controlled currency that would place a value on items, it would also give the fed real power, because once they fairly distribute this currency to the populous, they can then tax it and have an official budget for government works and projects (they currently have no such thing to my knowledge). This currency will be called a 'Credit'. Credits will be the official currency, with a credit you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market.

Article II: USDDO Mint

Since this credit must be tangible, the USDDO will set up a mint that will print this currency, the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market. The mint will be controlled by a small board, there will be six members, three will be elected by the general populous, three will be elected by the USDDO Congress, they will control the distribution of USDDO Credits under minor governmental supervision.

Article III: Gold Standard

Considering there is a relatively small populous at the moment, this currency necessitates a precious metal to back the currency, to prevent hyperinflation. This precious metal will be gold. There current value of all the world's gold is at about $1.89 trillion. Roughly $14 billion is produced yearly. For all intents and purposes, we will say the USDDO controls 10% of the world's gold ($189 billion). Meaning the USDDO government has officially acquired 189 billion credits when this bill is enacted. The USDDO government will be forced to distribute 85%-90% of the credits to the private market, and will be able to keep the rest for public works projects and the military. Taxation on the private market will fluctuate and not be specified here. This article has been edited at 9:50 PM by the OP, The USDDO government, owning 10% of the gold will also produce an extra 1.4 billion a year in gold, considering at the moment 14 billion a year is discovered.

Article IV: Central Bank

The government is not given the power to take on any amount of debt unless the populous votes for the creation of a central bank. It must be mentioned that this piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created.

Article V: Board of Monetary Distribution

This will be the most difficult and controversial part of the legislation. How will we keep track of the currency and weed out counter-fitters? A small group of board members shall document of all USDDO citizen's and their monetary net worth. If you apply for monetary startup assistance, you may receive federal aid from the Board of Monetary Distribution. This board will manage the credits that are to be distributed to the populous, will keep records to minimize counterfeit, and administer the creation and monetary assistance to and for corporations. Board members will be elected by the USDDO citizens, the number of them is still to be specified.

Changes:

-Article VI and article VII taken out
- The power to keep track of monetary records is given to a small group of people, not just one
- Corporations are allowed to be created without governmental approval, but still must apply for monetary assistance.
lannan13
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3/14/2013 1:15:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Looks good to me.
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imabench
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3/14/2013 2:58:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?

Yeah we should, which is why I would like to focus on creating a national currency rather then do al this other stuff

Congress runs in an idealized 'perfect=world' scenario where only the best possible outcome happens after every law is passed, and does so every time. Creating a board of advisers or something to counter a problem that doesnt even exist is therefore useless.

Then this is no fun, what kind of government doesn't face adversity or problems?

A fake one, hence the reason why all of this is just for fun, not to be as real as possible. The point of this is to actually get sh*t done not waste time on problems that exist only because we made them exist...

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

Thats not necessarily true though. The Dollar and the Euro arent backed up against anything yet they are some of the strongest currencies in the world.

If the dollar is as strong as you claim, why has an item that has stayed pretty stable in price, copy paper, increased in price 45% since 1940?

Because when the wages of a person's salaries go up, then so can the prices on the goods they buy. The middle class has come a hell of a long way then they were in the 1940's....

Some detail is required yes, but youre going absolutely overboard with it when you really dont need to. Plus I dont see how someone can 'take advantage' of the currency being backed up to gold for that matter.

They could take advantage of it NOT being backed up, the gov't could be creating money that doesn't exist and hyperinflating our currency.

There are other ways to prevent hyper inflation then doing all of this stuff you want to do. On the other hand hyperinflation is something that doesnt exist in an idealized version of the world so now we dont even have an actual issue to handle

It might be fair and moderate to you but you havent grasped everything about how this game works yet. There isnt a general populous like you keep claiming there is and last I checked, this bill is supposed to create a national currency and process for minting said currency, not outlaw the national debt.

It doesn't, I said it allows for debt to be created, but does not permit it.

On the condition that a non existent group of people allows the government to do it, which tends to be a problem when the group that is the only one that can allow the government to have a national debt literally doesnt exist.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Your bill goes much deeper then just the creation of a central bank dude. For f*cks sake youre also trying to handle the national debt, a central bank, and a gold standard on top of it, most of which isnt even ground in the reality of how this game even works.

Your better off just removing this part of the bill completely. Frankly I dont think that any one entity should have knowledge of every last persons financial situation.

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

Then leave that to the states so that they can handle it themselves... Dont give three people in government knowledge of everyones financial records, thats so authoritarian you couldnt even find that in Nazi Germany OR Communist Russia....

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

Unless you are willing to assign a few already existent congress members to the board, I stand strong behind creating it and will gladly chat with you about it via PM.

It doesnt work that way dude. Im not going to do something radical just because you insist on it.... Give me a reason why there needs to be a board of advisers on this otherwise Ill veto this bill and let someone else make their own version of a national currency bill instead.

The way this game works is that everything is assumed to be legal unless the government makes it illegal. Your bill though operates as if everything is illegal unless the government makes it legal which is the exact opposite of the 'reality' of this game (legislation to create a stock market?).

I am not outlawing corporations that don't ask for government consent, but one can get governmental assistance if they are just starting a corporation and apply for it

Sounds like something that should be addressed in a welfare or business bill, not a currency creation bill.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
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3/14/2013 3:06:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Article I: Currency

The USDDO shall have one official national currency, which will be in the form of 'Credits'. With credits you may purchase any service or tangible item on the market, and you may exchange credits for other currencies of equal value.

Article II: USDDO Mint

The USDDO federal government is the only organization that can mint money. They will set up a mint that will print this currency, and the printing will be controlled by the government to ensure that the money retains some value on the market.

Article III: Gold Standard

To further preserve the value of credits, the national currency will be set to a gold standard

^ That is everything you need to create a national currency that will retain its value, and I would happily sign this bill into law. Any additions made to it is playing with fire and has the potential of alienating people, which could cause the bill to fail.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TheAntidoter
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3/14/2013 3:48:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Looks good to me as well.

I support it.
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ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 6:28:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 2:58:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?

Yeah we should, which is why I would like to focus on creating a national currency rather then do al this other stuff

Most of this 'stuff' is all vital to creating a currency.

Congress runs in an idealized 'perfect=world' scenario where only the best possible outcome happens after every law is passed, and does so every time. Creating a board of advisers or something to counter a problem that doesnt even exist is therefore useless.

Then this is no fun, what kind of government doesn't face adversity or problems?

A fake one, hence the reason why all of this is just for fun, not to be as real as possible. The point of this is to actually get sh*t done not waste time on problems that exist only because we made them exist...

I could govern a utopia with relative ease, that's no fun, working through tough problems and working through adversity is fun.

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

Thats not necessarily true though. The Dollar and the Euro arent backed up against anything yet they are some of the strongest currencies in the world.

If the dollar is as strong as you claim, why has an item that has stayed pretty stable in price, copy paper, increased in price 45% since 1940?

Because when the wages of a person's salaries go up, then so can the prices on the goods they buy. The middle class has come a hell of a long way then they were in the 1940's....

Now you're getting it, all of this, the higher wages and higher prices require more money. Who do you think that you could buy a house for under a few thousand dollars 60 years ago? Even if there were income rises, I do not think that there were 6,000% income raises.

Some detail is required yes, but youre going absolutely overboard with it when you really dont need to. Plus I dont see how someone can 'take advantage' of the currency being backed up to gold for that matter.

They could take advantage of it NOT being backed up, the gov't could be creating money that doesn't exist and hyperinflating our currency.

There are other ways to prevent hyper inflation then doing all of this stuff you want to do. On the other hand hyperinflation is something that doesnt exist in an idealized version of the world so now we dont even have an actual issue to handle

Money is worthless if you can create it out of thin air, this bill might as well be nonexistent if the money can just be poofed out of thin out.

It might be fair and moderate to you but you havent grasped everything about how this game works yet. There isnt a general populous like you keep claiming there is and last I checked, this bill is supposed to create a national currency and process for minting said currency, not outlaw the national debt.

It doesn't, I said it allows for debt to be created, but does not permit it.

On the condition that a non existent group of people allows the government to do it, which tends to be a problem when the group that is the only one that can allow the government to have a national debt literally doesnt exist. I was not aware that we did not have a general populous until you told me, I will change it to say the government, I stand firm there though, I will not allow this bill to be used so the government can take on debt, but I will not prevent it either, congress will vote on debt.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Your bill goes much deeper then just the creation of a central bank dude.

Article IV doesn't.

For f*cks sake youre also trying to handle the national debt, a central bank

I'm doing the opposite, I'm basically saying this bill has no relevance to either the national debt of a central bank by saying this bill does not create either, but allows for it to be created.

and a gold standard on top of it, most of which isnt even ground in the reality of how this game even works.

I have argued that the gold standard is relevant

Your better off just removing this part of the bill completely. Frankly I dont think that any one entity should have knowledge of every last persons financial situation.

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

Then leave that to the states so that they can handle it themselves...

Now you are using the general populous argument for your convenience, the states are made of fictional people!

Dont give three people in government knowledge of everyones financial records, thats so authoritarian you couldnt even find that in Nazi Germany OR Communist Russia....

It happens in America, people report their income so uncle sam can tax it. It's called the IRS, :P.

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

We need board members because this bill does not create and enforce itself.

Unless you are willing to assign a few already existent congress members to the board, I stand strong behind creating it and will gladly chat with you about it via PM.

It doesnt work that way dude. Im not going to do something radical just because you insist on it.... Give me a reason why there needs to be a board of advisers on this otherwise Ill veto this bill and let someone else make their own version of a national currency bill instead.

The way this game works is that everything is assumed to be legal unless the government makes it illegal. Your bill though operates as if everything is illegal unless the government makes it legal which is the exact opposite of the 'reality' of this game (legislation to create a stock market?).

I am not outlawing corporations that don't ask for government consent, but one can get governmental assistance if they are just starting a corporation and apply for it

Sounds like something that should be addressed in a welfare or business bill, not a currency creation bill.
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 6:30:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 2:58:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?

Yeah we should, which is why I would like to focus on creating a national currency rather then do al this other stuff

Congress runs in an idealized 'perfect=world' scenario where only the best possible outcome happens after every law is passed, and does so every time. Creating a board of advisers or something to counter a problem that doesnt even exist is therefore useless.

Then this is no fun, what kind of government doesn't face adversity or problems?

A fake one, hence the reason why all of this is just for fun, not to be as real as possible. The point of this is to actually get sh*t done not waste time on problems that exist only because we made them exist...

If we don't have something to back our currency up against, it will be worthless, everyone knows this.

Thats not necessarily true though. The Dollar and the Euro arent backed up against anything yet they are some of the strongest currencies in the world.

If the dollar is as strong as you claim, why has an item that has stayed pretty stable in price, copy paper, increased in price 45% since 1940?

Because when the wages of a person's salaries go up, then so can the prices on the goods they buy. The middle class has come a hell of a long way then they were in the 1940's....

Some detail is required yes, but youre going absolutely overboard with it when you really dont need to. Plus I dont see how someone can 'take advantage' of the currency being backed up to gold for that matter.

They could take advantage of it NOT being backed up, the gov't could be creating money that doesn't exist and hyperinflating our currency.

There are other ways to prevent hyper inflation then doing all of this stuff you want to do. On the other hand hyperinflation is something that doesnt exist in an idealized version of the world so now we dont even have an actual issue to handle

It might be fair and moderate to you but you havent grasped everything about how this game works yet. There isnt a general populous like you keep claiming there is and last I checked, this bill is supposed to create a national currency and process for minting said currency, not outlaw the national debt.

It doesn't, I said it allows for debt to be created, but does not permit it.

On the condition that a non existent group of people allows the government to do it, which tends to be a problem when the group that is the only one that can allow the government to have a national debt literally doesnt exist.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Your bill goes much deeper then just the creation of a central bank dude. For f*cks sake youre also trying to handle the national debt, a central bank, and a gold standard on top of it, most of which isnt even ground in the reality of how this game even works.

Your better off just removing this part of the bill completely. Frankly I dont think that any one entity should have knowledge of every last persons financial situation.

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

Then leave that to the states so that they can handle it themselves... Dont give three people in government knowledge of everyones financial records, thats so authoritarian you couldnt even find that in Nazi Germany OR Communist Russia....

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

Unless you are willing to assign a few already existent congress members to the board, I stand strong behind creating it and will gladly chat with you about it via PM.

It doesnt work that way dude. Im not going to do something radical just because you insist on it.... Give me a reason why there needs to be a board of advisers on this otherwise Ill veto this bill and let someone else make their own version of a national currency bill instead.

The way this game works is that everything is assumed to be legal unless the government makes it illegal. Your bill though operates as if everything is illegal unless the government makes it legal which is the exact opposite of the 'reality' of this game (legislation to create a stock market?).

I am not outlawing corporations that don't ask for government consent, but one can get governmental assistance if they are just starting a corporation and apply for it

Sounds like something that should be addressed in a welfare or business bill, not a currency creation bill.

I still disagree w/ you, but I will take it out to prove I am flexible, from there I refuse to budge, considering if you veto this bill and it gets a good majority vote, you will be putting a damper on your reelection by vetoing a popular bill, once again, nothing personal, it's politics.
THEVIRUS
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3/14/2013 6:31:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 10:52:00 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
Okay... here is my thought:

1) I love it

2) I am a very good drawer(you gotta trust me here bro)

3) Can I draw a few designs for concept art, scan and upload them, and then we vote on them?

can I take that as a yes?
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 6:32:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wait, I already did take article VII out, that argument is already over with. We agree on the first three articles, the other two are non-negotiable until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are unnecessary.
imabench
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3/14/2013 6:57:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 6:28:42 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/14/2013 2:58:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?

Yeah we should, which is why I would like to focus on creating a national currency rather then do al this other stuff

Most of this 'stuff' is all vital to creating a currency.

No it isnt, its unnecessary detail that overly complicates somethign that is pretty easy to handle. We dont need to define how much gold is produced in the world and how much the USoDDO produces, all we need to do is authorize the creation of a national currency and then the battle is halfway over.

A fake one, hence the reason why all of this is just for fun, not to be as real as possible. The point of this is to actually get sh*t done not waste time on problems that exist only because we made them exist...

I could govern a utopia with relative ease, that's no fun, working through tough problems and working through adversity is fun.

Well then go somewhere else because we dont get in our own way just so that you can have fun...

Because when the wages of a person's salaries go up, then so can the prices on the goods they buy. The middle class has come a hell of a long way then they were in the 1940's....

Now you're getting it, all of this, the higher wages and higher prices require more money. Who do you think that you could buy a house for under a few thousand dollars 60 years ago? Even if there were income rises, I do not think that there were 6,000% income raises.

We dont have to worry about that though, again youre horrendously overcomplicating stuff for your own 'fun'....

There are other ways to prevent hyper inflation then doing all of this stuff you want to do. On the other hand hyperinflation is something that doesnt exist in an idealized version of the world so now we dont even have an actual issue to handle

Money is worthless if you can create it out of thin air, this bill might as well be nonexistent if the money can just be poofed out of thin air.

This game wasnt meant to be 100% realistic of the real world... Just accept that already

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Your bill goes much deeper then just the creation of a central bank dude.

Article IV doesn't.

For f*cks sake youre also trying to handle the national debt, a central bank

I'm doing the opposite, I'm basically saying this bill has no relevance to either the national debt of a central bank by saying this bill does not create either, but allows for it to be created.

If and only if a non-existant group allow Congress to, how have you not seen how that could be a problem???

and a gold standard on top of it, most of which isnt even ground in the reality of how this game even works.

I have argued that the gold standard is relevant

relevant to the real world =/= relevant in this game

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

Then leave that to the states so that they can handle it themselves...

Now you are using the general populous argument for your convenience, the states are made of fictional people!

state governments idiot

Dont give three people in government knowledge of everyones financial records, thats so authoritarian you couldnt even find that in Nazi Germany OR Communist Russia....

It happens in America, people report their income so uncle sam can tax it. It's called the IRS, :P.

And the IRS consists of more then 3 people....

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

We need board members because this bill does not create and enforce itself.

It does in here because everything in here is an idealized scenario. When congress passes a bill to fix a problem, the problem is solved, no questions asked.
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Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 7:00:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 6:31:23 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/13/2013 10:52:00 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
Okay... here is my thought:

1) I love it

2) I am a very good drawer(you gotta trust me here bro)

3) Can I draw a few designs for concept art, scan and upload them, and then we vote on them?

can I take that as a yes?

So you want to draw our currency so it's tangible in sight? If you would be willing, then sure, why not?
imabench
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3/14/2013 7:01:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 6:32:00 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Wait, I already did take article VII out, that argument is already over with. We agree on the first three articles, the other two are non-negotiable until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are unnecessary.

I dont have to do a thing, its on you to pitch this bill to Congress and get them to go along with all of your ludicrous proposals youve jammed into this thing (A board of advisers that serve no purpose for example), im just pointing otu what you should take out if you want this bill to pass and what you should change if you dont want me to veto this bill if it somehow reaches my desk at all.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
THEVIRUS
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3/14/2013 7:02:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 7:00:00 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/14/2013 6:31:23 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/13/2013 10:52:00 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
Okay... here is my thought:

1) I love it

2) I am a very good drawer(you gotta trust me here bro)

3) Can I draw a few designs for concept art, scan and upload them, and then we vote on them?

can I take that as a yes?

So you want to draw our currency so it's tangible in sight? If you would be willing, then sure, why not?

Hoo Rah!
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
imabench
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3/14/2013 7:04:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 6:30:22 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

I still disagree w/ you, but I will take it out to prove I am flexible, from there I refuse to budge, considering if you veto this bill and it gets a good majority vote,

You really need to learn how this game works before you start proposing bills and stuff.... Only after Congress votes on a bill does the president sign it, I dont veto it and then COngress votes on it.....

you will be putting a damper on your reelection by vetoing a popular bill, once again, nothing personal, it's politics.

lol, ill take my chances. Your bill isnt the first one in line, people have proposed a tax bill, creating a military, a term limit bill, and a host of others that were made long before your bill was even written.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 7:08:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 6:57:00 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 6:28:42 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/14/2013 2:58:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 12:37:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

You just said our population is north of 100 million, I assume this is RP, But still, shouldn't we have a currency that we distribute to our RP citizenry?

Yeah we should, which is why I would like to focus on creating a national currency rather then do al this other stuff

Most of this 'stuff' is all vital to creating a currency.

No it isnt, its unnecessary detail that overly complicates somethign that is pretty easy to handle. We dont need to define how much gold is produced in the world and how much the USoDDO produces, all we need to do is authorize the creation of a national currency and then the battle is halfway over.

Once again, there is no need for the currency bill to start if I can make up my own currency and then just claim I have billions of it, because that is the same as this without article III.

A fake one, hence the reason why all of this is just for fun, not to be as real as possible. The point of this is to actually get sh*t done not waste time on problems that exist only because we made them exist...

I could govern a utopia with relative ease, that's no fun, working through tough problems and working through adversity is fun.

Well then go somewhere else because we dont get in our own way just so that you can have fun...

I would rather just tweak this a bit so it's halfway realistic, no need to be rude about this either.

Because when the wages of a person's salaries go up, then so can the prices on the goods they buy. The middle class has come a hell of a long way then they were in the 1940's....

Now you're getting it, all of this, the higher wages and higher prices require more money. Who do you think that you could buy a house for under a few thousand dollars 60 years ago? Even if there were income rises, I do not think that there were 6,000% income raises.

We dont have to worry about that though, again youre horrendously overcomplicating stuff for your own 'fun'....

No I'm not, I'm justifying why we need put some precautionary measures in to prevent hyperinflation, the only person who has given the bill any flak is you, and some of it I have agreed with you on, but as I stated, you are attempting to gut and revamp the whole bill.

There are other ways to prevent hyper inflation then doing all of this stuff you want to do. On the other hand hyperinflation is something that doesnt exist in an idealized version of the world so now we dont even have an actual issue to handle

Money is worthless if you can create it out of thin air, this bill might as well be nonexistent if the money can just be poofed out of thin air.

This game wasnt meant to be 100% realistic of the real world... Just accept that already

I understand, but the money is worthless if I can snap my fingers and have billions of it, so we might as well just not have the currency then.

But you tie in other conditions for these options which are completely un-meetable because again, there isnt a general populous to work with. Everything and anything can be hammered out later in Congress at a later time, you don't have to explicitly state it though, let alone make it come with conditions.

Article IV is two sentences long and all it said was "This piece of legislation does not create a central bank, but it allows the possibility for one to be created". Seems pretty vague and moderate to me.

Your bill goes much deeper then just the creation of a central bank dude.

Article IV doesn't.

For f*cks sake youre also trying to handle the national debt, a central bank

I'm doing the opposite, I'm basically saying this bill has no relevance to either the national debt of a central bank by saying this bill does not create either, but allows for it to be created.

If and only if a non-existant group allow Congress to, how have you not seen how that could be a problem???

Thank you for pointing out this clause, it will be changed.

and a gold standard on top of it, most of which isnt even ground in the reality of how this game even works.

I have argued that the gold standard is relevant

relevant to the real world =/= relevant in this game

I have argued why it's relevant in the game.

Since this isn't real life and the currency can not be felt and is not real paper, someone could claim they have twenty million dollars, when they only have ten. We have to keep track of financial records for taxation too. (So people can't cheat on their taxes).

Then leave that to the states so that they can handle it themselves...

Now you are using the general populous argument for your convenience, the states are made of fictional people!

state governments idiot

You never said state governments, also the name calling is unnecessary, in poor taste and I will be sure to remember your bad debate conduct for the future.

Dont give three people in government knowledge of everyones financial records, thats so authoritarian you couldnt even find that in Nazi Germany OR Communist Russia....

It happens in America, people report their income so uncle sam can tax it. It's called the IRS, :P.

And the IRS consists of more then 3 people....

Considering our government is only composed of 20 people atm, I don't see your point.

Unless you can prove why we need these board members then Ill continue to oppose you on this. Im not going to create a useless board of advisers if they serve no purpose or value.

We need board members because this bill does not create and enforce itself.

It does in here because everything in here is an idealized scenario. When congress passes a bill to fix a problem, the problem is solved, no questions asked.

Yes, this is why I am taking precautionary measures to make sure the bill does not have any problems that need to be fixed once it is passed.
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 7:10:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 7:01:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 6:32:00 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Wait, I already did take article VII out, that argument is already over with. We agree on the first three articles, the other two are non-negotiable until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are unnecessary.

I dont have to do a thing, its on you to pitch this bill to Congress and get them to go along with all of your ludicrous proposals youve jammed into this thing (A board of advisers that serve no purpose for example), im just pointing otu what you should take out if you want this bill to pass and what you should change if you dont want me to veto this bill if it somehow reaches my desk at all.

Considering all that have came across it (besides you) have liked it, 'I will take my chances'
ConservativeAmerican
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3/14/2013 7:12:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 7:04:57 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/14/2013 6:30:22 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

I still disagree w/ you, but I will take it out to prove I am flexible, from there I refuse to budge, considering if you veto this bill and it gets a good majority vote,

You really need to learn how this game works before you start proposing bills and stuff.... Only after Congress votes on a bill does the president sign it, I dont veto it and then COngress votes on it.....

I am past 3rd grade government, I am aware that the bill does not get to you until congress passes it, that is why I acknowledged that after you vetoed it they could again override your veto.

you will be putting a damper on your reelection by vetoing a popular bill, once again, nothing personal, it's politics.

lol, ill take my chances. Your bill isnt the first one in line, people have proposed a tax bill, creating a military, a term limit bill, and a host of others that were made long before your bill was even written.

Fair enough, but being unproductive just to avoid my bill will put a damper on your public opinion too.