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Naval Warfare Mafia Endgame

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2013 11:22:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MAFIA WINS - Bull_Diesel, Drafterman, Zaradi, and Trekie have achieved a perfect win!

(Town loses/second place - no third parties existed).

Mafia Roles

1) Bull_Diesel: A naval contact mine is an explosive device placed in water to destroy surface ships or submarines. They are deposited and left there until they are triggered through contact with an enemy vessel. You have 2 naval mines available. Each night, you can place a mine near a player, or retrieve a mine that you have previously placed. Any player visiting a player that had a mine placed there during any of the previous night phases will be killed by the explosion of the naval mine barring exceptions. The mine can only explode once and the damage is limited to the single vessel that triggers them. In this game, if more than one eligible player visits, you will be told their character names and you can choose which player you want dead. Naval mines can also act as a deterrent. Each night, as an alternative to placing or retrieving a mine, you may choose to protect yourself or another player from any kills. You win with the MAFIA.

2) Drafterman: Submarine launched cruise missiles are capable of remaining undetected and launch while submerged. They can carry both conventional and nuclear payloads and attack predetermined targets. If you choose to perform the night kill through a cruise missile, your visit cannot be detected. Submarine launched ballistic missiles on the other hand deliver multiple re-entry vehicles which allows a single launched missile to strike several potential targets. If you choose to perform the night kill through a ballistic missile, you may choose two targets to potentially kill numbered in order of preference. If your first preference cannot be killed, your second preference is targeted. One of your ballistic missiles is powerful enough to deliver 3 re-entry vehicles. As a 1X ability, you may select three preferences. If both your first and second preferences cannot be killed, your third preference is targeted. Your visits using ballistic missiles can be detected. You win with the MAFIA.

3) Zaradi: The Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS) is a long range early warning asset for protection against underwater threats and provides vital information for tactical, deep ocean anti-submarine warfare. Here, you can use this on all enemy roles. Each night, you can choose a player and have their full role PM shown to you. Furthermore if any player visits any of the mafia, you will see their full role PM and which mafia member they visited that night. You win with the MAFIA.

4) Trekie: Anti-aircraft warfare includes all measures taken to nullify the effectiveness of hostile air attacks and uses fear to deter enemy attacks. One of its challenges is to hit a moving target in 3D space as well as hitting it at the right time. A correct strike however can destroy the aircraft and all its critical components. You may choose to neutralize the effectiveness of a player each night by role-blocking them. As an added bonus, if an aircraft targets you the same night that you target them, it will be blown out of the sky with all its active night actions permanently removed and will remain simply as a vote. You win with the MAFIA.

Mafia info: (4 bits of information to help the mafia)

(A) Town can search for mines: Be warned that mine countermeasure equipment exist among the town to detect and destroy mines so choose carefully where you plan to place them. Bull, you may place Naval mines on anyone including yourself and your mafia teammates. If a mine has been disabled, you will be informed, so you can retrieve the mine, reactivate it and place it again on a player of your choice. If it has been destroyed, you won't be informed.

(B) Exceptions: Exceptions that will not be destroyed upon visiting mines are ships that are actively looking for them, players that are being protected in some way, and aircraft. The SOSUS will not be able to detect undetectable roles and difficult to detect roles will only have some information released as opposed to all of it. Anti-aircraft warfare may have some limitations.

(C) Fake-claims: Only one of the aircraft used in Aerial Warfare (Game 56 in Archives) was used in this game. All other aircraft in that game are free fake character claims (although some of the roles used in that game may exist here too). The one aircraft that was used is the Northrop Grumman B2 Spirit. Same role but different role paraphrase (which is provided below along with another sample role paraphrase). You know that the following roles exist in this game:

Player X: The Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit is a stealth bomber with a flying wing design and no fuselage or tail. The combination of low-observable technology with high aerodynamic efficiency gives the B2 Bomber significant advantages allowing it to attack enemy bases undetected. Each night phase, choose a player to kill. At night, you cannot be detected in any way at all. You win with the TOWN.

Player Y: The MH-53E Sea Dragon is well known for performing Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM) missions. It has specialized features designed to tow mine-sweeping gear and is useful for clearing the seas in open water areas containing large numbers of mines. Each night, check 3 players. If there are mines placed amongst them, they will deactivated although they may later be retrieved for reuse by the enemy. You will be told whether or not there were mines among the 3 players and how many there were but not who they were placed near. You win with the TOWN.


You can use this sample role PMs to help create your fake-claims. Remember, these are guaranteed to exist among the town.

(D) There is no miller: The town roles consist of 3 Aircraft, 7 Ships, and 2 submarines. The mafia on the other hand are abstract concepts like the sound surveillance system and anti-aircraft warfare, and actions like planting mines and launching missiles. In fact the OP may incriminate your character depending on night actions so be warned.

------------------------------------END MAFIA POST--------------------------------------------------

Mafia may post the Mafia PMs at their discretion.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2013 11:26:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Town Roles:

5) FourTrouble: Radio Controlled Submarines are operated remotely and are used by hobbyists, and oceanographers. They may sometimes be used by the military although not very commonly. Poking around military equipment is not recommended for civilians, they may blow up in your face. Each night, you must visit a player. As far as you know, the action does nothing useful but maybe it does. It could also do potentially harmful things. After all, you are operating the submarine remotely, you wouldn't know the finer details until you can analyze the data you get back. You win with the TOWN.

6) Tvellalott: A Narco-submarine is an ocean-going vessel built to smuggle drugs. They are designed to be difficult to detect and can carry up to 200 tons of cocaine. Some variations allow drug smugglers to scuttle the submarine and sink the cargo to look innocent to the coast guard. A fishing vessel then picks up the cargo after the coast is clear. You are a VANILLA townie. You win with the TOWN.

7) Buddamoose/TheAntidoter: A balloon carrier is a ship equipped with a balloon. How pointless in modern days? Your strongest weapon is your voice and your vote. You have no night actions. You with the TOWN.

8) Johnnyboy54: The USS Enterprise is the world's first nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier and is the longest naval vessel in the world. Like all aircraft carriers, it is very expensive to build and maintain and must be protected at all costs. Huge amounts of resources were spent to create it not to mention all the expensive modern aircraft on board with breathtaking capabilities. Destruction of this vessel will cause devastating effects for your team. If you are lynched, the next day phase will be skipped. If you are killed at night, the next day phase will be skipped anyways. Don't die... You win with the TOWN.

9) Medic: The Arleigh Burke class of guided missile destroyers are the largest and most heavily armed destroyers of their time. They are multi-role destroyers with their water plane area hull form allowing them to reach high speeds and their repertoire of equipment defends against attacks from the surface, submarines, and aircraft. Each night, choose a player. If any sort of kill is attempted on that player, it is negated. There is a 50% chance you die and a 50% chance you won't. You win with the TOWN.

10) SarcasticIndeed(1): The HMS Daring is the lead ship in the D Class in the Royal Navy and considered to be one of the most powerful air-defense warships in the world. It's low radar cross section makes it difficult to detect and it is known for its stealth capabilities. It defends larger vessels in a fleet against smaller, more maneuverable attackers. Each night, choose a player. If that player would otherwise be killed, you die in their place. You win with the TOWN.

11) TUF: Frigates during the Age of Sail scouted for fleet and conveyed messages. They were the largest vessels that were operated independently. Their long range, speed and maneuverability made them formidable opponents to privateers, sloops and gunboats. Every night, you can choose a player and learn who they visited and send a message to a player of your choice (max 500 characters). You win with the TOWN.

12) Lordknukle: The Cape Class Patrol Boat was designed for anti-submarine warfare although it eventually wound up being used for search and rescue duties. Each night, choose a player and find out what action was performed on them that night. You win with the TOWN.

13) Noumena: A Minehunter is a naval vessel that can detect and destroy individual naval mines. Upon detecting mines, it sends out divers or Remotely Operated Underwater Vehicles to deactivate and destroy those mines using small charges to neutralize the threat. Each night, you may visit a player. If there have been mines placed near that player, you will be told so and the mines will now be destroyed. You win with the TOWN.

14) Blackhawk/Sarcastic(2): The MH-53E Sea Dragon is well known for performing Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM) missions. It has specialized features designed to tow mine-sweeping gear and is useful for clearing the seas in open water areas containing large numbers of mines. Each night, check 3 players. If there are mines placed amongst them, they will deactivated although they may later be retrieved for reuse by the enemy. You will be told whether or not there were mines among the 3 players and how many there were but not who they were placed near. You win with the TOWN.

15) Tulle: The Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit is a stealth bomber with a flying wing design and no fuselage or tail. The combination of low-observable technology with high aerodynamic efficiency gives the B2 Bomber significant advantages allowing it to attack enemy bases undetected. Each night phase, choose a player to kill. At night, you cannot be detected in any way at all. You win with the TOWN.

16) IFLYHIGH: McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet is a twin-engine, mid-wing supersonic fighter jet. It features a multi-function display allowing a pilot to perform either fighter or attack roles. On NP1, choose whether you wish to start in fighter mode or attack mode. Each night, the mode will alternate. Attack aircraft are designed for close air support in naval surface to air missions. In attack mode, you may support another player. Choose a player to either watch or protect. Fighter aircraft are small, fast, and highly maneuverable and designed for air to air combat. In Fighter mode, either choose a player and dodge their night action that night (their night action will have no effect on you) or choose a player to kill. You cannot redo any action that you performed, or had the opportunity to perform within the previous 3 night phases. You can waive kills if you want (the cycle goes on). You win with the TOWN.
FourTrouble
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3/14/2013 11:28:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 11:26:56 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
Wow. Three of my town reads were mafia. I failed.

MVP is FT for sho for FOS'ing three of the mafia.

I also town read you and johnny against everyone else, and was confident enough to defend those reads. Too bad I always get lynched.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/14/2013 11:32:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
NP1 Actions:

Bull - Places mine near himself
Drafter - Kills Tulle (backup: IFLY)
Ore_Ele - Rolecops Noumena
Trekie - Roleblocks IFLY
FT - Visits TV
TV - NA
Budda - NA
Johnny - NA
Medic - Defends TUF
SI - Bodyguards Drafter
TUF - Track Bull, message Drafter (Bull visited himself)
LK - Targets Drafter - (Other ships lie in the path to Drafterman. Drafterman was also sent a message.)
Noumena - Visits FT (No mines have been placed near FT)
BH - Sweeps Medic, Johnny, and himself for mines (No mines, all clear)
Tulle - Waives (dies)
IFLY - Dodges Trekie

NP2 Actions:

Bull - Places mine near FourTrouble
Drafter - Kills Noumena (backup: Blackhawk)
Zaradi - Rolecops Medic
Trekie - Roleblocks Blackhawk
FT - Visits Zaradi (no effect)
TV - NA
Budda - NA
Johnny - NA
Medic - Defends Johnny
SI - Bodyguards Johnny
TUF - Track Johnny, message Sarcastic (Johnny visited no one)
LK - Targets Blackhawk " (Blackhawk was roleblocked)
Noumena - Forfeits (dies)
BH - Sweeps himself, Noumena, and Johnny for mines (is rb'd " no results)
IFLY - Watches Drafter (No one visited Drafterman)

NP3 Actions:

Bull " Protects Zaradi (chooses to kill TUF)
Drafter " Kills Blackhawk with cruise missiles " fails (Sarcastic dies instead)
Zaradi " Waives
Trekie " Roleblocks Blackhawk
FT " Visits Trekie (no effect)
Budda " NA
Johnny " NA
Medic " Defends Johnny
SI " Bodyguards Blackhawk (dies in his place)
TUF " Track Zaradi, messages Bull (dies from mine, bull receives message)
LK " Targets Bull_Diesel " (Bull_Diesel was sent a message)
BH " Sweeps Zaradi, Johnny, and himself for mines (Roleblocked "no results")
IFLY " Kills Zaradi (No effect since Zaradi was protected)

NP4 Actions:

Bull " Protects Drafterman
Drafter " Kills Johny (Backup IFLY)
Zaradi " Waives
Trekie " Roleblocks Medic

Explanation of why I called this game: There was no way town was going to win it regardless of who IFLY (the sole protective role left) protected. If he protected anyone but Johnny, mafia would have another night phase to RB medic and kill someone else and win. If he protected Johnny, he would have died, since he was Drafter's backup kill. Once he died, it would have been 9 players left 5 town including Johnny, LK, Sarcastic2, TA and medic, and 4 mafia. Even if a mafia member was lynched DP5 (best case, roleblocker is lynched), mafia would kill medic NP5 making it 3-4. If mafia was lynched DP6, it would have been 2-4. The kill on Johnny would make it 2-3. Then the additional kill would make it 2-2. A town win wasn't possible.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/14/2013 11:33:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Mod Notes on Role mechanics

1) Out of the 12 townies, there are 2 submarines, 7 ships, and 3 aircraft. This inequality is an essential part of a mafia game. If there were 4 of each for instance, it would be very easy to find out who mafia are by looking for the odd ones out. Mafia were informed of this and it helped them narrow down who the power roles were and what to fake-claim.

2) The mafia roles are neither ships, nor submarines, nor aircraft or the operators of those vehicles. They are either actions like planting mines or launching missiles or abstract concepts like SOSUS and anti-aircraft warfare.

3) For mafia fake-claims, the Aerial Warfare game is free for fake-claiming. All but one character can be fake-claimed. That one character along with another sample fake-claim was given to the mafia. This helps because there are very few aircraft, it allows all the mafia to fake-claim aircraft without arousing too much suspicion. The two submarines used were unusual so the mafia can claim submarines too if they wanted.

4) Coming to Ships, in my style of confusing town, I have used a variety of ways for ships to be characters. 3/7 ships (Balloon Carrier, Minehunter, Frigates) are TYPES on ships, not a specific class, or a specific ship. 2/7 ships (Cape Class Patrol Boat, Arleigh Burke Class of Destroyers) are specific CLASSES of ships and could refer to any ships of that class. The remaining 2/7 ships are SPECIFIC ships (USS Enterprise, HMS Daring) and refer to one specific ship. One way that town could figure things out is that there is no overlap. If a type was used, there are no classes and specific ships of that type used. If a class was used, there would not be a specific ship also of that class. Types encompass every class of ship of that type built and a class would encompass all ships of that class.

5) Mafia could potentially fake-claim Cop. This is the biggest role that I have left free. They could also fake-claim miller which I said beforehand doesn't exist.

6) The Mine Planter can only affect ships or submarines. This is obvious based on the fact that Naval Mines lie in the water. In this game, it affects 8/12 town roles. The three aircraft and the minehunter ship are immune from being destroyed by mines (although mines can be "placed" near them).

7) If the bodyguard is protecting someone from ballistic missiles, the ballistic missile moves on to the next target with no effect to the bodyguard.

8) Some roles are undetectable to SOSUS and some roles are difficult to detect. The roles that are difficult to detect: 1) Narco-submarines role PM will show up as a _____ where is says vanilla in uppercase if rolecopped. 2) The HMS Daring if rolecopped will show as _____ where it says that if the chosen player is attacked, the HMS will die in its place. If it protects a scum player, the DDO screenname and the character name will be blanked out but everything else will be revealed. 3) The B2 Spirit if rolecopped will show a _____ and if it vig-kills a mafia player, mafia won't know what hit them, BUT they have the full role as a sample so they should be able to guess.

9) Note that both full-time town protective roles are destroyers of some kind.

10) This game uses the concept of positive feedback from mafiascum. I have made sure to document the exact process of how it works and the percentages required. The radio controlled submarine will help aircraft based on positive feedback. If mafia control 35% of the vote at the beginning of the night phase, anyone targeted that has previously been tree-stumped will be restored their role the following night. If the mafia don't control 35% of the vote, the following conditions apply: the vig will have its role restored if the mafia doctor was still alive and the Hornet was dead. The Hornet will have its role restored in fighter mode if both the other town protective roles are dead. The Hornet will have its role restored in attack mode if the B2 Spirit is dead. These modes only work on alternate days. Both will be restored if both conditions apply. The Sea Dragon will have its role restored if the minehunter is dead OR if there were two active mines.

11) The Cape class patrol boat sees the following actions:
A mine was planted on (target),
(Target) was protected (for mineplanter and Hornet),
(Target) was detected (for SOSUS, minehunter and minesweeper visits)
(Target) was roleblocked,
(Target) was shot down by anti-aircraft warfare,
(Target) was killed (for Hornet and successful kill of ballistic missiles),
(Target) was fixed (if remote controlled sub fixed the target),
(Target) was defended (for Arleigh Burke class),
Other ships lie in the path to (Target) (for HMS Daring because it is difficult to detect)
(Target) was scouted (for Frigate visits),
(Target) was sent a message (for Frigate visits),
(Target) was watched (for Hornet visits),
No information (if no one visits, if the RC submarine visits and does nothing, if the vig kills a player or if the cruise missile kill a player)

12) When considering game balance in a game for 16 players, I considered extra kills and how they affect the game.
Each mine can provide one extra kill (2 - only ships and submarines)
Vigilante might provide numerous extra kills
JOAT might provide extra kills
BP might provide one extra kill
The earliest the game can end is NP2 which would require two mislynches, both vig and JOAT shooting a townie each and for a mine to explode.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2013 11:38:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And the last and best part:

Gameplay Analysis

This was one of those games where the mafia play was absolutely optimal thanks in large part to Drafterman. He made close to no mistakes as mafia and led the team from the front. He was universally thought to be town, suspected by none except very slight suspicion from Sarcastic. Sarcastic's suspicions were good though; drafter's role was indeed fake. But persuasive ability plays a large part in mafia games and that was lacking here. The other mafia members also played extremely well. While I personally thought Bull and later Zaradi seemed scummy at a few points, their high activity level made up for it and with Drafter, they helped take control of the votes in the Day Phase. This was a game where bussing was a bad strategy and all the mafia roles were critical to their win. Mafia did well supporting each other and lynching townies. Trekie as a player was amazing and performed far better than one could ever expect in a first game as scum. I was a little hesitant replacing Bossy with her but those fears were misguided. She read the Day Phases and the previous mafia PM as soon as she replaced in and provided great advice to the mafia and often pointed out things that more experienced players had overlooked. Her perceptive abilities in figuring things out also made her look very much like town. The mafia truly ruled this game and dominated to an extent I've never seen before. So, my congratulations to Drafterman, Trekie, Bull, and Zaradi. I fully expected this performance from Drafter but Trekie was the big surprise and I was quite impressed by her play. BlackVoid had also commented on how Bull's activity level was impressive for a relatively new player.

How could the town have won? Well, if Bull was lynched instead of FT, it would have been obvious why the kill on Zaradi failed (Bull protected Zaradi). Sarcastic(2) was roleblocked so we know IFH wasn't. That would have led to Zaradi's lynch. The FOS on Trekie was enough to get her lynched over FT and IFH who would then have basically been confirmed. If it was down to 3P LYLO, there was no way Drafter would have won since he claimed that 2 roles from Aerial Warfare were recycled meaning there would have been 2 more fake-claims. Also, TUF saw Bull visit himself but bull claimed self-watcher (self-watcher is a passive role; they don't visit themselves).

Wasting the first DP was a mistake. FT is right. 96 hours was a lot of analysis time. Outing whether the players were aircraft helped mafia narrow down claims which was also a bad move. The second DP could have gone better. Bull's claim should have got him lynched. The funny part was that Tulle considered killing Bull NP1 but waived. This was one of those time when putting your finger on the missile launcher was better than playing it safe.

The third DP ends with TV lynched. There were several points at which the town was on the right track but mafia used their persuasive influence and activity to continually sway votes towards town. DP4 was when FT started to put a lot of things together but unfortunately also made enemies out of IFLY and Medic which led to him being quick-hammered by the mafia.

On the town side, FourTrouble and IFLY were without a doubt the best players. They carried this game forward, posted analysis, and made it competitive and challenging. Without them, it would have been a cakewalk for the mafia. Sarcastic played great and was very active. Some townies were unfortunately inactive which led to a decrease in town influence. I tried replacing players as soon as they asked. I think the replacements were awesome picking up the slack for the previous players. Trekie as I mentioned was very meticulous in her analysis, Zaradi was extremely active. BH tried hard with the time that he had. I really think that FT was close to winning this game for town with his FOS on Bull, Zaradi, and Trekie which were all accurate. It was his push for the lynches of Medic, IFLY, and Budda (TA) that really turned the town against him. It was really close. IFLY was great at leading the town in the initial day phases. His lead was what everyone followed despite TV's and FT's objections. I just realized how much I typed and I could go on and on.

In summary, Drafterman was the star of this game; the universally considered town player and with the able support of the competent mafia literally blasted to town to pieces. I wanted to say it was close but in my honest opinion, this game wasn't even close save for a few sparks of brilliance from FourTrouble and IFLY's efforts and time put in. The majority of the town was nowhere to be seen. Where was the old Medic who would post tons of analysis and lead scum lynches? Where was Johnnyboy with his sharp scrutiny that provides lynch-worthy analysis, and Knukle's aggressiveness and TUF's logic and reason? And TV's grand intuitive pushes? Budda's heavy activity and leadership. I missed them all. But again, my congratulations to Drafterman and company. You were truly awesome and this game was memorable to mod. Thanks to all for playing and especially the ones who came back in as replacements.

I felt that the theme wasn't close to a lot of players so my next game, I will be doing a Choose your own fantasy book/movie type game and invite everyone who wasn't replaced in this game.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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3/14/2013 11:40:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, kudos to Trekie and Drafter. I never would have thought mafia would of pointed out Sarcastic's confirmation and as for Drafter.... I don't think anybody but Sarcastic suspected him. Good job mafia. Bull did well too, but Trekie and Drafter completely fooled me.

Gosh, I still can't get over how bad I did. Gah. And to think this is the last game before I take I break.
FourTrouble
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3/14/2013 11:49:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
F-16, I think TV played much more pro-town than you give him credit for. He was the only person who buddied with me and helped me save johnny, and if he hadn't been lynched while I was gone (I didn't even have time to stop the lynch), I'm pretty sure I could have helped stop his lynch and the two of us could have done much more damage to Bull/Zaradi/Trekie.

drafter was the MVP for mafia, of course. He played very well, I didn't suspect him. My opinion, he's really the only mafioso who played well. Bull/Trekie both had major slips (which town ignored for some reason), and all three of them lacked a clear thought process or any depth to their analysis.

Also, F-16, I never pushed for IFLY's lynch. I actually defended him. As for Budda's lynch, he deserved it. He was literally ignoring the game.

Really, just terrible play from most of the town. This seems to be the way games have been going around here. It really makes me not even want to play anymore. I'm pretty sure if people listened to me every game instead of lynching me, towns would win more often. Oh well.
IFLYHIGH
Posts: 5,223
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3/14/2013 11:50:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
FT, the hard part for you is convincing town to that your town. I would have probably followed your lead since I never really had any strong scum reads except for Johnny and Sarcastic(one of whom changed to a town read). The thing is though is that I was never really fully convinced you were town. You're just so damn good at being mafia that it's hard to trust anything you say.

I might try buddying with my town reads more often in the future. This is a case where if town just listened to FT, we would have probably won. Also, this is the last time I use POE to call somebody scum.
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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3/14/2013 11:55:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only one I really suspected was Zaradi, and maybe a little on Trekie, though, that is mainly due to my own ignorance. Also Bull's behavior in this game was scummy as fvck. I was so willing to believe he was town though off of the actions in NP1. That was stupid of me though... Mafia played absolutely great in this game, and town, we just utterly failed. I appolagize for lack of inactivity.

Good game, F-16.

Congratulation maf, you put a number on us in this one.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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3/14/2013 11:56:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 11:40:06 PM, IFLYHIGH wrote:
Also, kudos to Trekie and Drafter. I never would have thought mafia would of pointed out Sarcastic's confirmation and as for Drafter.... I don't think anybody but Sarcastic suspected him. Good job mafia. Bull did well too, but Trekie and Drafter completely fooled me.

Gosh, I still can't get over how bad I did. Gah. And to think this is the last game before I take I break.

The town absolutely tore each other apart. We all had much to do with it.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2013 11:58:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@ FT, yes, you are right. You actually had a town read on IFH. And TV did well with the little time that he was active.

If town listened to you, they would have won.
Bull_Diesel
Posts: 1,955
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3/15/2013 12:19:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 11:55:19 PM, TUF wrote:
The only one I really suspected was Zaradi, and maybe a little on Trekie, though, that is mainly due to my own ignorance. Also Bull's behavior in this game was scummy as fvck. I was so willing to believe he was town though off of the actions in NP1. That was stupid of me though... Mafia played absolutely great in this game, and town, we just utterly failed. I appolagize for lack of inactivity.


Good game, F-16.

Congratulation maf, you put a number on us in this one.

So that we are clear I had to intentionally try to attract attention to make the mines useful. I'm fvcking stunned none of you ever bothered to visit FT at all... That's dumb . Hr had a role even he didn't understand, and there was plenty of reason to check him out. The slip FT keeps bringing up wasn't a slip at all, his role legit doesn't sound like town or mafia it sounds like third party. I
ade an error DP1 and drew too much attention (purposefully, but.mistakenly) trying to use the mine on myself, turns out the mine wouldn't be active until the next phase, I was hoping to have killed TUF or whoever visited night 1, but that wasn't the way the role worked, which I realized only after I had committed to acting scummy day 1.

FT played pretty well for the first half of the game but I'm not really sure why he acted the way he did towards the end. I'd have gladly joined his lynched as a townie until he started attacking one person then flipping and attacking the next, that just.made him seem scummy (me, budda, zaradi, me budda trekie) . I wasn't worried towards the end about seeming scummy we figured out basically DP2 what had to happen for us to win without a death and it played out perfectly...

Great game all,
Bull_Diesel
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3/15/2013 12:20:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:12:12 AM, tulle wrote:
Why did mafia target me NP1? Did I give something away?

Airplane, we knew about sea dragon and I guess we flipped a coin between you and IFLy
Bull_Diesel
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3/15/2013 12:27:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:20:22 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
At 3/15/2013 12:12:12 AM, tulle wrote:
Why did mafia target me NP1? Did I give something away?

Airplane, we knew about sea dragon and I guess we flipped a coin between you and IFLy

Drafter played well but the only thing he really did that made you all think he was town was claim airplane first thing in the DP, he basically just coasted after that and you guys just relied on him, he wasn't really giving many reads or hunting scum too much, he'd pop in, make a comment about one or two roles, wait for everyone to choose a target and then he sent in night actions that were well chosen.

The single reason mafia got the perfect win is because F 16 told us there were only 3 aircraft and gave us the sea dragon and b2 role pms. We might have won without those but drafter wouldn't have basically auto confirmed himself and we wouldn't have known to shoot tulle N1.

Zaradis flamewar with FT and his refusal to claim could have been avoided.(as could drafters with FT but it was less potentially scummy or harmful to.mafia)

I think the mafia team meshed well and I agree with F16 it was really good that nobody tried to bus eachother heavily
FourTrouble
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3/15/2013 12:33:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:19:04 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
The slip FT keeps bringing up wasn't a slip at all, his role legit doesn't sound like town or mafia it sounds like third party.

You still don't get it. You were interpreting my claim from a mafia POV -- that's why you never considered the possibility that it was a fake-claim. You only saw the possibility of third-party. You also said the same thing about other people as well. It is an example of an informed post, and unlike most of the stuff people call scummy around here, it's actually scummy.

FT played pretty well for the first half of the game but I'm not really sure why he acted the way he did towards the end. I'd have gladly joined his lynched as a townie until he started attacking one person then flipping and attacking the next, that just.made him seem scummy (me, budda, zaradi, me budda trekie) .

I was playing pro-town as fvck towards the end. I was engaging different people, trying to understand their thought process and figure the game out. You still don't understand what kinds of behavior are scummy, but here's a quick lesson: flip-flopping is null, as is most of the stuff I've seen you call scummy. Things that are actually scummy are things that betray more knowledge than you should have, and lack of a clear thought process. I was clearly uninformed (hence the flip-flopping), and I had a thought process behind all my reads, regardless of whether people disagreed with me.
FourTrouble
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3/15/2013 12:42:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:27:53 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Drafter played well but the only thing he really did that made you all think he was town was claim airplane first thing in the DP, he basically just coasted after that and you guys just relied on him, he wasn't really giving many reads or hunting scum too much, he'd pop in, make a comment about one or two roles, wait for everyone to choose a target and then he sent in night actions that were well chosen.

No, drafter's analysis never seemed more informed than he should have been, and his positions were backed up by a clear thought process. I couldn't give a fvck if he claimed aircraft first thing in the game. He only made a single post that looked scummy to me, when he unvoted johnny, but his explanation made sense and actually made it seem like he had thought things through with more depth than I initially had, and that played a large part in my belief that he was town. You would do well to learn from his play instead of reducing it to claiming aircraft at the start of the game.

The single reason mafia got the perfect win is because F 16 told us there were only 3 aircraft and gave us the sea dragon and b2 role pms. We might have won without those but drafter wouldn't have basically auto confirmed himself and we wouldn't have known to shoot tulle N1.

drafter didn't auto-confirm himself. You're really playing that up too much.

Zaradis flamewar with FT and his refusal to claim could have been avoided.(as could drafters with FT but it was less potentially scummy or harmful to.mafia)

Nah, flamewars are pro-scum and I did my best to avoid them. drafter did a good job trying to distract me with theory discussion, though.

I think the mafia team meshed well and I agree with F16 it was really good that nobody tried to bus eachother heavily

drafter was the only one who defended you guys. Very good play on his part. That played a bigger part in keeping you alive than you might think.
Bull_Diesel
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3/15/2013 12:43:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:33:16 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/15/2013 12:19:04 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
The slip FT keeps bringing up wasn't a slip at all, his role legit doesn't sound like town or mafia it sounds like third party.

You still don't get it. You were interpreting my claim from a mafia POV -- that's why you never considered the possibility that it was a fake-claim. You only saw the possibility of third-party. You also said the same thing about other people as well. It is an example of an informed post, and unlike most of the stuff people call scummy around here, it's actually scummy.

We can disagree about the pov thing. Like i said before, yours and TV's roles screamed third party fake claims, your role could easily have been the arsonist, you could have "mined" somebody every night and nothing would have happened to them, just like you were so happy to keep pointing out, then at some point in the future you could have ignited/detonated all of the previously targeted players. It fits perfectly with your actual role and I'd have said the same thing as town aa I said in game which is your role seems like TP to me, when I say I think somebody is scum or TP it doeant mean I think you're too dumb to read the IWWTT , it means the role you are claiming in my mind would have actions and behavior consistent with a similar scum role
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/15/2013 12:43:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I won't comment regarding the slips of Bull and Trekie because I really am unsure whether they would have done the same as town. Trekie claimed in the mafia PM that she would have said the same thing about BH as town but then again, would she have?

My philosophy is that if you are scum and got lynched based on behavior, you didn't do a good enough job of convincing town that you were town since the majority believed that you were scum.

You played wonderfully FT but I really wish you didn't ignore IFLY's questions. It did nothing to endear him towards you or make him want to follow your lead. Considering he was your town-read, I wonder why you did that.
Bull_Diesel
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3/15/2013 12:52:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:43:52 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I won't comment regarding the slips of Bull and Trekie because I really am unsure whether they would have done the same as town. Trekie claimed in the mafia PM that she would have said the same thing about BH as town but then again, would she have?

My philosophy is that if you are scum and got lynched based on behavior, you didn't do a good enough job of convincing town that you were town since the majority believed that you were scum.

You played wonderfully FT but I really wish you didn't ignore IFLY's questions. It did nothing to endear him towards you or make him want to follow your lead. Considering he was your town-read, I wonder why you did that.

Just so we are clear I actually really like FT's play usually, the thing that did it for me is that huge piece DP2 where he and drafter just argued about some policy philosophy instead of looking for scum. Johnny should be flogged for asking to be kept in this game and I'm embarrassed that he was. Town needed all the help they could get and if FT had had one more active player helping him out it could have easily changed the outcome
tulle
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3/15/2013 1:02:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
lol looking at my role PM i did say I wanted to kill Bull "for not making any sense" but the game was so long ago I don't even remember why. That would have been a game changer. Sorry guys :(
yang.
FourTrouble
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3/15/2013 1:08:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:43:52 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I won't comment regarding the slips of Bull and Trekie because I really am unsure whether they would have done the same as town. Trekie claimed in the mafia PM that she would have said the same thing about BH as town but then again, would she have?

My philosophy is that if you are scum and got lynched based on behavior, you didn't do a good enough job of convincing town that you were town since the majority believed that you were scum.

You played wonderfully FT but I really wish you didn't ignore IFLY's questions. It did nothing to endear him towards you or make him want to follow your lead. Considering he was your town-read, I wonder why you did that.

I didn't expect IFLY to vote for me, especially since I was the only person really defending him.

The reason I ignored the questions was to get a better feel for his alignment. The fact he kept questioning me after I ignored him showed me he was genuinely invested in scum-hunting, not just asking questions to make himself seem engaged. I needed the extra-assurance cause I have the same paranoia for IFLY that everyone has for me. I don't stop testing people even after I have a town-read on them.
FourTrouble
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3/15/2013 1:10:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:52:03 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Just so we are clear I actually really like FT's play usually, the thing that did it for me is that huge piece DP2 where he and drafter just argued about some policy philosophy instead of looking for scum.

Huh? I was the one trying to stop that discussion, drafter was the one trying to keep it going.