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USoDDO S.C. Case #1: State of News v Williams

imabench
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3/26/2013 7:18:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is the first case of to be handled by the United States of DDO Supreme Court. Here is how this trial/hearing/interview will go

- 1 - Only the 3 judges, myself, and those representing the two parties in the trial shall post in this thread. Any third party commentary is BANNED. If a congressmen posts in this thread and is not involved as part of the prosecution, defense, or the Court, they shall be removed from the game for a week. You dont get a warning or a 'hey dont do that', you get KICKED FROM THE GAME FOR A FULL WEEK. I wanted to make that explicitly clear

- 2 - My role is to create the thread and then close it after sufficient arguments have been presented by both sides or unless the Judges specifically say that they have made up their mind. Once I close the thread, both sides will give one final argument to their case, and then the Judges will convene and give a decision.

- 3 - The Judges can choose to either uphold the law in question or nullify it. They are to give a reason for their decision as well

- 4 - Each side will first present opening arguments, and then the debating will begin. However, the judges maintain the right to halt the conversation and ask questions directly to either side

- 5 - Judges are allowed to use their own interpretation of existing laws when levying their decision, they are not forced to hear only the arguments presented in the case for deciding how to rule.

Now then, heres the scenario:

Jackie and Jay Williams, current residents of the State of News, are a gay couple seeking marriage in said state. The State of News however has illegalized gay marriage, and has denied the gay couple their request to be married. The gay couple then proceeded on getting married anyways. When the state found out about the marriage, they sued the gay couple and took their case to court. The State of News is currently suing for $100,000 and is calling that their marriage be disbanded as it is illegal in their state due to state laws. The State of News is asking that they nullify their marriage and pay the fine, or pay $250,000 and leave the state. The Williams's have stated that they will not leave the state and will take their chances in court.

The Prosecutor: The State of News
The Defendant: Jackie and Jay Williams

Since the State of News is the prosecutor and are the ones who first brought this case to court, they are allowed the first argument.

You may begin
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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Buddamoose
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3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
cybertron1998
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3/26/2013 7:41:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?

budda did you just completely look over what imabench said
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
imabench
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3/26/2013 7:43:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:41:25 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?

budda did you just completely look over what imabench said

Hes one of the judges....

Its Freedo, Budda, and Agent_Orange who are the Supreme Court Judges. You joined late in the game and you probably didnt know, so ill let this go as an honest mistake.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/26/2013 7:45:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:43:33 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:41:25 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?

budda did you just completely look over what imabench said

Hes one of the judges....

Its Freedo, Budda, and Agent_Orange who are the Supreme Court Judges. You joined late in the game and you probably didnt know, so ill let this go as an honest mistake.

WELL DAMMIT whoops forgot to turn the caps lock off
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Buddamoose
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3/26/2013 10:50:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:34:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
*sits all judge-like, waiting for the arguments*

http://ragecomics.com...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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3/27/2013 5:22:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

I expect my partner to have better information on this, as he just so happens to be the Governor of the State of News.

I don't know when the law was passed, but it was made known to the general population of the United States of DDO at 3/19/2013 5:57:17 PM [1]

It is known that Jackie and Jay Williams were married after the law was passed, although exactly when is uncertain.

'The State of News, however has illegalized gay marriage and has denied the gay couple their marriage. The gay couple then got married in the state illegaly.' [2]

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?

Governor lannan can handle these.

Sources:
1. http://www.debate.org...
2. http://www.debate.org...
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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3/27/2013 5:59:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll post oppening arguements when I can get to a computer so I can copy in paste stuff. (1 hour or so)
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

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lannan13
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3/27/2013 7:19:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 5:22:12 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:32:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a few things I would like the State of News's representation to adress:

1) Upon what date was the law passed, and upon what date did the Williams marriage certified/occur?

I expect my partner to have better information on this, as he just so happens to be the Governor of the State of News.

I don't know when the law was passed, but it was made known to the general population of the United States of DDO at 3/19/2013 5:57:17 PM [1]

It is known that Jackie and Jay Williams were married after the law was passed, although exactly when is uncertain.

'The State of News, however has illegalized gay marriage and has denied the gay couple their marriage. The gay couple then got married in the state illegaly.' [2]

2) How did this law come to pass? What process took place for its passing?

It's in the State Constitution, it was discussed at the Ft. Chackees convention. http://www.debate.org... (if you look a couple pages earlier then you can also see that it's a state policy.

3) Why is the fine itself being implemented? How did that come about, and why was it set at that amount?

The fine is being implemented, because the gay couple ignored state laws and have chose to and continued to go on with this illegal act.

Governor lannan can handle these.

Sources:
1. http://www.debate.org...
2. http://www.debate.org...
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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3/27/2013 7:27:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Opening arguements- We are gathered here to dicuss this case. We here see that the state of News was created as affect of the states bill. A day later at the Ft. Chackees Convention the State drew up policies, bills, and a shinny state Constitution (March 19th, 2013). 6 days later the defendents knowingly broke the State of News law and gotten married. We can see that this law is not de facto since the State drew up Policies and then a Constitution. Dennying the State of News our laws and our state constitution you also go against the USDDO bill of rights specifying of Federalism. Which allows states to do things and pass laws as long as it doesn't interfere with any laws passed by the USDDO Congress. http://www.debate.org...
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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3/27/2013 7:48:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your honours, I am here as assistant-prosecutor acting on behalf of the State of News in this case of The State of News v Williams.

Under Clause 13 of the USDDO States Bill ('These states shall retain the right to decide for themselves what the penalties of crimes should be (as long as they are not overly abusive) unless the government explicitly states what the punishment should be and what should be legal. (Example: States can illegalize marijuana use if they want unless the government passes a law that states that Marijuana isnt illegal to use)'), the State of News retains the right to decide what it deems legal and illegal. The State of News has exercised that right in declaring gay marriage illegal during the Ft. Chackees Convention, as the federal government has yet to pass legislation regarding legal marriage. This is a valid State Law.

Despite this, the defendants broke that law. According to the original information provided by the State of News, the State 'denied the gay couple their marriage. The gay couple then got married in the state illegaly.'. It is quite clear that they are willfully in violation of the State Law, and therefore ought to pay the penalty.

The prosecution rests.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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3/27/2013 12:27:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 7:27:19 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Opening arguements- We are gathered here to dicuss this case. We here see that the state of News was created as affect of the states bill. A day later at the Ft. Chackees Convention the State drew up policies, bills, and a shinny state Constitution (March 19th, 2013). 6 days later the defendents knowingly broke the State of News law and gotten married. We can see that this law is not de facto since the State drew up Policies and then a Constitution. Dennying the State of News our laws and our state constitution you also go against the USDDO bill of rights specifying of Federalism. Which allows states to do things and pass laws as long as it doesn't interfere with any laws passed by the USDDO Congress. http://www.debate.org...

Can you explain how this does not interfere with our anti discrimination law and/or clause 8 of the U.S.D.D.O which states, "The rights of a citizen cannot be taken away merely because it is not listed here. All citizens have the right to do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right."
#BlackLivesMatter
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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3/27/2013 1:34:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I signed up to be a paralegal.

What do they get to do?
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Nac.

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Buddamoose
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3/27/2013 1:50:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why does the state of news believe a $100,000 penalty for this offense is justified?

What is the average income in the state of news?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/27/2013 1:53:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Are any gov't benefits recieved by married couples in the stare of news? In the form of say tax credits, governmetal loans, etc?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/27/2013 2:18:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For future reference i have been trying to contact citrakaya with no reply
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
TheAntidoter
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3/27/2013 2:42:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Agent Orange

"The rights of a citizen cannot be taken away merely because it is not listed here. All citizens have the right to do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right."

Do you interpret the word government as only the federal government, or both governments? (State and Federal)
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Agent_Orange
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3/27/2013 3:17:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:42:19 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
@Agent Orange

"The rights of a citizen cannot be taken away merely because it is not listed here. All citizens have the right to do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right."

Do you interpret the word government as only the federal government, or both governments? (State and Federal)

Both. And I don't remember either stating that marriage is not a right.
#BlackLivesMatter
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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3/27/2013 3:52:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:50:40 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Why does the state of news believe a $100,000 penalty for this offense is justified?

Money will go to public services.

What is the average income in the state of news?

$3000 per capita
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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3/27/2013 3:54:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 12:27:05 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 3/27/2013 7:27:19 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Opening arguements- We are gathered here to dicuss this case. We here see that the state of News was created as affect of the states bill. A day later at the Ft. Chackees Convention the State drew up policies, bills, and a shinny state Constitution (March 19th, 2013). 6 days later the defendents knowingly broke the State of News law and gotten married. We can see that this law is not de facto since the State drew up Policies and then a Constitution. Dennying the State of News our laws and our state constitution you also go against the USDDO bill of rights specifying of Federalism. Which allows states to do things and pass laws as long as it doesn't interfere with any laws passed by the USDDO Congress. http://www.debate.org...

Can you explain how this does not interfere with our anti discrimination law and/or clause 8 of the U.S.D.D.O which states, "The rights of a citizen cannot be taken away merely because it is not listed here. All citizens have the right to do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right."

However it states "that they can do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right." We've done that 6 days ago.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Citrakayah
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3/27/2013 4:13:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:18:27 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
For future reference i have been trying to contact citrakaya with no reply

I don't get on until the afternoon, Cybertron. Be patient, please. Anyway. On to the opening argument from my side.

Contention 1: Banning gay marriage can reasonably be thought of as an example of discrimination. This is because straight people have the ability to marry someone whom they are attracted to sexually, but gay people do not, in the State of News.

Contention 2: Clause three of bill nine states:

"Clause 3: That living among each other as equals means that opportunities will not be denied a person based upon their:

- Race
- Religion
- Sex
- Sexual Orientation
- Age

Opportunities are to include, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO:

- Government employment
- Wages accrued in that state of employment
- Any and all other benefits levied to individuals by the government"

Now, it is my contention that marriage is a benefit. Marriage, from the state (I assume here that the marriage license bestows no visitation rights or anything similar, or this case is open and shut), is usually taken to symbolize the state's official recognition of two people's love for each other. By granting two people a marriage license, the state grants them social legitimacy--the lack of which can lead to harassment and social shunning.

By granting straight people this benefit and denying it to gay people, the State of News violates Clause 3. Since federal law trumps state law, the State of News can either allow gay marriage or simply stop issuing marriage licenses altogether.
cybertron1998
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3/27/2013 4:26:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry citrakayah and I have something to back that up

Clause 8 and Clause 9 of the Bill of Rights

"Clause 8. The rights of a citizen cannot be taken away merely because it is not listed here. All citizens have the right to do what they want as long as the government does not explicitly state that such a right is not a right.

Clause 9. A 'right' shall be defined as any action of a person where that action does not initiate aggression against or violate the life, liberty, or property of another person."

Now I do believe that marriage does not initiate aggression against or violate any of the ideas in Clause 9. That could very well allow it to be a right. Which leads to Clause 8. And I do believe that by government it means federal government since the bill of rights was created while the federal government was in play.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Buddamoose
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3/27/2013 4:38:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 3:52:43 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:50:40 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Why does the state of news believe a $100,000 penalty for this offense is justified?

Money will go to public services.

I didnt ask where the money would go, thats not justification for a $100,000 dollar penalty. Please justify the penalty sir.

What is the average income in the state of news?

$3000 per capita

This would be monthly I assume? Which means in the state of news the average yearly income is $36,000? Which would be just over 1/3rd of the total penalty correct?

Please respond to my other questions as well.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
lannan13
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3/27/2013 4:40:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 4:38:49 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/27/2013 3:52:43 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:50:40 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Why does the state of news believe a $100,000 penalty for this offense is justified?

Money will go to public services.

I didnt ask where the money would go, thats not justification for a $100,000 dollar penalty. Please justify the penalty sir.

You are the SC you can change it, I just set that as a high punishment, or they can leave the state3.

What is the average income in the state of news?

$3000 per capita

This would be monthly I assume?
It is monthly
Which means in the state of news the average yearly income is $36,000? Which would be just over 1/3rd of the total penalty correct?

Please respond to my other questions as well.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Buddamoose
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3/27/2013 4:44:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
State of News, your statement that the Supreme Court can change the penalty is incorrect. We are here to rule on the lagilty and constitutionality of the law and punishment for offense of the law. We are not congress.

Please justify the $100,000 penalty.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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3/27/2013 4:48:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 4:44:04 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
State of News, your statement that the Supreme Court can change the penalty is incorrect. We are here to rule on the lagilty and constitutionality of the law and punishment for offense of the law. We are not congress.

Please justify the $100,000 penalty.

Oh I thought you could change it, I just set it that high for a scare so that others wouldn't do that, but I could lower it to about $1,000 or criminal enslavement (chain gains) if they can't pay off their debt.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Buddamoose
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3/27/2013 4:49:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Fair enough, but please justify the penalty
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion