Total Posts:98|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Midnighters Mafia DP2

TUF
Posts: 21,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2013 10:44:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jessica explored the wonderland in awe, staring at the beautiful crystals in the night sky. What a beautiful dream! Then she realized... It was rain! Rain, frozen and suspended in mid-air! Yes, this was definitely a dream....

LIVING PLAYERS:

1. Zaradi
2. Budda
3. TA
4. OneElephant
5. Bull diesel
6. skepsikyma
7. lannan13
8. Ishall
9. Yraelz
10. The virus
11. Magic8000
12. ChubbyFatz

7/12 votes required to lynch
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2013 10:50:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So we have a doctor. Or a bulletproof player and a very unlucky mafia.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Magic8000
Posts: 975
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2013 11:33:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So intense!
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:29:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Aha. Mafia's finally catching up. They roleblocked me.

I guess I'll have to be trickier to get them to die ;)
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:30:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
And inb4 Budda comes along and says something along the lines of "no kill and he claims RB? Obvscum!"
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:32:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 12:30:25 AM, Zaradi wrote:
And inb4 Budda comes along and says something along the lines of "no kill and he claims RB? Obvscum!"

Why would claiming to be RB'd with no NK mean you are obviously scum? Am I missing something?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:40:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 12:32:41 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:30:25 AM, Zaradi wrote:
And inb4 Budda comes along and says something along the lines of "no kill and he claims RB? Obvscum!"

Why would claiming to be RB'd with no NK mean you are obviously scum? Am I missing something?

You've never seen scum pull a no kill and one of them claim to be RB'd to get town cred?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:43:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 12:40:44 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:32:41 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:30:25 AM, Zaradi wrote:
And inb4 Budda comes along and says something along the lines of "no kill and he claims RB? Obvscum!"

Why would claiming to be RB'd with no NK mean you are obviously scum? Am I missing something?

You've never seen scum pull a no kill and one of them claim to be RB'd to get town cred?

To be honest, no, I dont recall such a gambit. It doesnt make sense to me...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 12:48:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 12:43:42 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:40:44 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:32:41 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 12:30:25 AM, Zaradi wrote:
And inb4 Budda comes along and says something along the lines of "no kill and he claims RB? Obvscum!"

Why would claiming to be RB'd with no NK mean you are obviously scum? Am I missing something?

You've never seen scum pull a no kill and one of them claim to be RB'd to get town cred?

To be honest, no, I dont recall such a gambit. It doesnt make sense to me...

Idk. I may have gotten the gambits mixed up and mixed the doc gambit with something else idk I'm tired.

But I did get roleblocked. Which kind of amuses me, because it---

Hofvck, I think i may be on to something here.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:02:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are a few things I'm trying to iron out in my head, but I'm thinking that scum are just keeping me around as a mislynch candidate. Given how there was popular support for the notion of me acting scummy toward the end of last DP, it wouldn't make sense for scum to kill me unless they just had a hard-on against experienced players. So I'm pretty sure I wasn't the kill target.

But on a second note, the roleblock seems to muddy that up quite a bit. I assume it was a scum roleblock since no townie outted that they had a roleblocking ability, which would be one of those roles you'd want to out DP1 in a miller-esque fashion since a townie roleblocker would be a bit of a scummy claim. Scum roleblocking me means that they didn't want me to perform whatever night action I may or may not have had. This indicates that they are scared of me and don't want me acting on my own during the night phase, which seems to point to my current suspicions being true, because the only reason scum would be scared to me is if I was close to the correct team or right on the correct team. But the role block complicates that, because if they really were that scared of me I'm surprised to still be alive. But seeing as how I don't find it likely that they tried to night-kill me, it kinda worries me a bit.

In the end, I think I'm gonna stick with my current reads. The fact that I would get roleblocked indicates that they're scared of me and don't want me to take actions during the night phase, and since the only reason they could be scared of me is if I was right to at least some degree (meaning either some of the Budda/Ishall/TA theory or all of them), it leads me to believe that my reads as they are currently are correct.

With that in mind, let's just pick things up where they left off, shall we?

VTL Budda for death.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:06:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You do understand that entire analysis boils down to WIFOM, right Zaradi?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:07:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:06:58 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
You do understand that entire analysis boils down to WIFOM, right Zaradi?

Yup. Just because it's WIFOM, doesn't mean it's not right.

Y u no engage substance?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:08:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:07:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:06:58 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
You do understand that entire analysis boils down to WIFOM, right Zaradi?

Yup. Just because it's WIFOM, doesn't mean it's not right.

Y u no engage substance?

WIFOM is not substance, so why would I even bother engaging it?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:15:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What you just did is pretty much exactly the same as going:

Player A died because he was pressuring player B

Therefore Player must be scum.

But that kind of analysis has led to so many a mislynch its rediculous. Secondly, did you not pay any attention at all to my analysis from before? Are you seriously that stubborn?

Your read on me from last DP is entirely wrong. Idk how better to explain it to you that you are not analyzing the game correctly, and now you are using pure WIFOM to base a lynch off of? Like really? Dude, you really need to learn to play better.

You arent examining motivations one bit, and are instead being a dam mule and refusing to even objectively analyze anything. Seriously, you are worse than FT at this point.

What am I going to do? Well for starters, I'm hearkenimg back to Skepsi's analysis. I wonder why he didnt disclose that earlier, but I think Yraelz is off the table for now in terms of pressure. So my next strongest scum-read would be TA, based off not only his poor analysis in defense of me, but also his indicated and likely motivation of wanting to avoid claiming himself, by demanding nobody else should claim, but also his abhorrence against a mass claim, when no mass claim was even being demanded.

VTL TA
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:17:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?

Arguing over WIFOM, no. And the only "scum-tells" are motivational tells. Discard the whole "scum-tells" w/out considering the motivations behind actions thing. Its what people who cant actually view things from different perspectives do.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:18:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:18:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:17:18 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?

Arguing over WIFOM, no. And the only "scum-tells" are motivational tells. Discard the whole "scum-tells" w/out considering the motivations behind actions thing. Its what people who cant actually view things from different perspectives do.

A simple yes or no will suffice.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:20:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
My vote is for a claim. I'm not derpish enough to push for a persons death right away without pursuing leads, by garnering claims. Or waiting for input from other players, etc.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:20:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:18:40 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:17:18 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?

Arguing over WIFOM, no. And the only "scum-tells" are motivational tells. Discard the whole "scum-tells" w/out considering the motivations behind actions thing. Its what people who cant actually view things from different perspectives do.

A simple yes or no will suffice.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:21:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:18:40 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:17:18 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:13:50 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Budda, do you agree that arguing for scum-tells and motivational-tells would be substantive?

Arguing over WIFOM, no. And the only "scum-tells" are motivational tells. Discard the whole "scum-tells" w/out considering the motivations behind actions thing. Its what people who cant actually view things from different perspectives do.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

A simple yes or no will not suffice. A simple yes or no, does not actually provide any information as to a persons viewpoint, and thought process behind the answer. Are you really trying to stifle and stop people from providing and explaining their thought process
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:23:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is a thought process really required to say whether or not motivations and scum-tells are substantive or not? Either you think so or you don't think so.

Moreover, I don't really care about your thought process, hence why a simple yes or no will suffice.

Why are you beating around the bush with a simple question?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:27:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:23:16 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Is a thought process really required to say whether or not motivations and scum-tells are substantive or not? Either you think so or you don't think so.

The only scum-tells are motivational tells

Moreover, I don't really care about your thought process, hence why a simple yes or no will suffice.

You should if you're actually trying to scumhunt, until you do, you'll be wrong 99.9% of the time.

Why are you beating around the bush with a simple question?

I'm not, I answered your question. Arguing over WIFOM is pointless, it proves nothing. You want to start an argument, and cloud the DP over something that will, and does not, and never will, in the end prove anything.

Arguing over actual analysis, yes, it is helpful. Arguing over scum/town-reads, yes, it is helpful as well. But it all depends upon the circumstances, and situation, and topic in which the argument is occuring.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:30:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:27:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:

Arguing over actual analysis, yes, it is helpful. Arguing over scum/town-reads, yes, it is helpful as well.

That wasn't so hard now was it?

Are you aware of the fact that all of mafia, including the analysis and reads that you herald as helpful and substantive, carry within them varying levels of WIFOM? And that without WIFOM there would be no such thing as "reads" to begin with?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 1:37:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 1:30:44 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/28/2013 1:27:32 AM, Buddamoose wrote:

Arguing over actual analysis, yes, it is helpful. Arguing over scum/town-reads, yes, it is helpful as well.

That wasn't so hard now was it?

Are you aware of the fact that all of mafia, including the analysis and reads that you herald as helpful and substantive, carry within them varying levels of WIFOM? And that without WIFOM there would be no such thing as "reads" to begin with?

Care to elaborate?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 5:55:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
VTL BUDDA

I have a good reason on why I think it's him. I'll tell only if big z wants to know or someone besides budda puts a vote on me.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 8:38:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 5:55:08 AM, lannan13 wrote:
VTL BUDDA

I have a good reason on why I think it's him. I'll tell only if big z wants to know or someone besides budda puts a vote on me.

Please explain.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 8:41:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 5:55:08 AM, lannan13 wrote:
VTL BUDDA

I have a good reason on why I think it's him. I'll tell only if big z wants to know or someone besides budda puts a vote on me.

Don't explain.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
ishallannoyyo
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/28/2013 9:34:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll out now. I'm a Cop (Clancy St Clair), and all my results will not be full on Innocent/Guilty, but rather up to my interpretation because I'm not that great of a cop. I investigated Chub last night (because of his inactivity, he seemed like the best choice. investigating Zaradi was a no, Budda and TA might've been vigged so no, Yraelz was Daylighter, Bull was a no, and of the more inactives I picked Chub) and I received:

The player you suspect, does not exist. Hmm, must have just suspected a dream.

Yet Daylighters are humans, Midnighters are humans (the OP of DP1), so therefore I don't know what else Chub could be except a Darkling or not aligned with Town.

VTL Chub for death